660713 - Lecture BG 04.03-6 - New York

Lectures by Date, 1966

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

660713BG.NY - July 13, 1966

Prabhupāda:

sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya

yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ

bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti

rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam

(BG 4.3)

Last day we are discussing about the process of understanding Bhagavad-gītā. This is to receive the knowledge in disciplic succession, bona fide disciplic succession. It is not a thing . . . any knowledge, even material knowledge, if it is not received in bona fide disciplic succession, that knowledge is not perfect.

Suppose if you want to be a lawyer, or if you want to be an engineer or a medical practitioner. You have to receive the knowledge from the authoritative lawyer, authoritative engineer. Of course, I do not know what is the custom here. In India the custom is that a new lawyer, he has to become an apprentice of an experienced lawyer before he is given the license to practice. That is the Indian system. So any knowledge, unless we receive it through the authoritative sources, it is not perfect. It is not perfect.

There are two kinds of processes of acquiring knowledge. One process is deductive, and the other process is inductive. Those who are staunch student of logic, you know that there are two processes: deductive knowledge and inductive knowledge. Deductive knowledge is considered to be more perfect. And what is that? Just like "Man is mortal." This is a truth, accepted. How man is mortal, nobody's going to enter into discussion. It is accepted that man is mortal. Now, Mr. Johnson is a man, so he is mortal. This is the deductive conclusion. Because man is mortal and Johnson is a man, therefore he's mortal. This is the process of deductive knowledge.

Now, how this man is mortal, this truth established? The other party, those who are inductive, follower of inductive process, they want to see actually by experiment and observation how man is mortal. They want to study, "This man dies. That man dies. That man dies. That man dies." Therefore they make a general conclusion, "Well, all men are mortal."

Now, in the inductive process you have got some defects. What is that? Now, your experience is limited. Suppose if you have not seen a man who is not mortal. Who is not mortal. There may be. Because you are going on with your personal experience, but your personal experience is always imperfect. That I have already discussed. Because we have got our senses with limited power, and there are so many defects in our conditioned stage. Therefore inductive process is not always perfect. The deductive process, from the authority, the knowledge received, is always perfect.

So Vedic process is deductive process. Vedic process is deductive process.You'll find so many verses in the Bhagavad-gītā which may appear to be dogmatic. The Lord says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7); "My dear Arjuna, there is nobody else greater than Me. There is no greater authority than Me." Kṛṣṇa says. Now, apparently, it appears very dogmatic.

Suppose if I say before you that "There is nobody greater than me," oh, you'll think, "Oh, Swāmījī is very proud." Yes. If a man like me, who is conditioned by so many, I mean to say, restriction, if I say that I am the greatest of all, that is a blasphemy. I cannot say that. But Kṛṣṇa can say. Because the history of life from Kṛṣṇa, we can understand that actually He was the greatest personality. At least, during His time, He was the greatest personality in every field of activities.

Now knowledge received from the greatest personality, greatest authority, is, according to Vedic system, that is accepted as perfect. There are three kinds of proofs. According to the Vedic system, they accept three kinds. For establishing truth, they, they take three kinds of proofs: pratyakṣa, anumāna, aitihya. In logic also, these three kinds of proofs are accepted. What is that? Now, direct perception. You are seeing. I am sitting here. That is direct knowledge. I am seeing that you are sitting here. That is direct knowledge, pratyakṣa.

Anumāna. Anumāna means just like the children are playing there. We are hearing their sound. So we can conjecture that there are some children. We don't see the children. But we can conjecture, we can think, we can imagine that there are some children who are playing there. This is called anumāna.

Pratyakṣa, anumāna and aitihya, or śabda-pramāṇa. Śabda-pramāṇa means to take the truth from the highest authority. That is called śabda-pramāṇa. Just like "Man is mortal." Now, this "Man is mortal," nobody knows wherefrom this sound has come first, who has experienced that man is mortal. But we are accepting this. We are accepting this.

By tradition, we know man is mortal. Now if we, if somebody says: "Who found this truth first? Who discovered that man is mortal?" that is very difficult to say. But it is coming down. The knowledge is coming down, "Man is mortal," and we accept everything. There are so many examples. So out of these three, the Vedic knowledge, they say that this aitihya, or the knowledge received from the authority, is the most perfect.

Neither, I mean to say, imagination or hypothesis nor direct. Direct perception is always imperfect, especially in the conditioned stage of life. Just like direct perception—with our eyes we see the sun just like a disc, not more than your plate on which you take your meals. But from authority, aitihya, we understand the sun is so many millions times greater than this earth. So which of them is right? By seeing your direct perception, sun just like a disc—is it right? Or you take it from authority the sun is such-and-such times bigger than the earth? Which one of them you'll accept?

But you are not going to prove it that the sun is so great. You do not know. You accept from some scientist, from some astronomers, from some authority, that sun is so great. But you have no capacity to see yourself whether the sun is so great or not. Therefore the knowledge received from authority actually we are accustomed, and we are accepting this type of knowledge in every field of our activities.

Now, what is this newspaper? Oh, you, from newspaper you understand that, "In China such-and-such things have taken place. And in India such-and-such things have taken place." Or from radio message you understand that "Such-and-such things have taken place." But you are not experiencing them directly, whether such-and-such things have actually taken place. But you accept the authority of the newspaper. You accept the authority of newspaper and you believe it, that in China such-and-such things have taken place and in India such-and-such things have taken place, which is far beyond the range of your direct perception.

Similarly, there are many instances. We have to believe the authority to take knowledge. And the more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. The more the authority is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. Direct perception in all cases, it is not possible to receive direct perception of everything. Take, for example . . .

(aside) Ask them not to make noise.

Roy: The man's chasing the kids now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is behind, these children. Ask them.

Roy: Yeah, that's what . . . the man's chasing them right now.

Prabhupāda: Eh? They are making noise.

Roy: Yeah. He's chasing them now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Now, there is one very good example. Now, if somebody wants to know, "Who is my father? Who is my father?" And how he can know? There is no possibility of direct perception to know the father. It is not possible. Then who is the authority? The mother is the authority. When the mother says: "My dear son, here is your father," we have to accept it. If you say: "No, I don't believe you, mother," then you have no other source of knowledge who is your father. You have no other alternative.

Excepting the authority of your mother, you cannot know who is your father. Because he was your father before your birth, so how you can have direct perception? It is not possible. So many things there are that direct perception is not possible. Therefore in the Vedic process of knowledge the authority has been accepted as the perfect source of knowledge. Now, here is Kṛṣṇa, the direct, I mean to say, highest authority. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti . . . kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). The Lord says that, "There is no other superior personality than Me." And it has been accepted by great scholars.

Otherwise, why Dr. Radhakrishnan would take so much trouble for commenting or reading Bhagavad-gītā? Why there are so many foreign scholars also in America, in England, in France, in Japan? All, they have . . . why? Because it is an authority. So therefore we have to accept. To accept . . . if we do not accept Kṛṣṇa the supreme authority and do not take His words as they are, then we cannot derive any benefit. It is not dogmatic, it is actually fact. It is not dogmatic. If you study scrutinizingly what Kṛṣṇa says, you'll find it is right. You'll find it, and if you take, if you follow . . .

Oh, they are making too much noise. Can you not ask them?

Roy: Yeah, I'll ask them. (laughs) agreed!

Prabhupāda: If we take it, accept it as it is, as Kṛṣṇa says, then actually, we shall be benefited. And great stalwart scholars just like Rāmānujācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, in India, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme authority. Even Śaṅkarācārya, who is . . . who has got a different opinion from the Personality of Godhead.

Because we, we, the Vaiṣṇavas, we are, we accept the personal Godhead, but there are other philosophers who do not accept the personal feature of the Supreme Absolute Truth. Śaṅkarācārya was the head of this impersonal school. Still, he has admitted in his commentation of Bhagavad-gītā that sa kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ bhagavān: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. He's the Supreme Lord." So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord, and it is accepted.

Now, now Śrī Kṛṣṇa says that "This Bhagavad-gītā, this science of Bhagavad-gītā, was first spoken by Me to the sun-god. Sun-god. So whatever I am speaking to you, Arjuna, it is not a new thing." The Vedic knowledge, whatever Vedic knowledge you know, it is not . . . nothing like some discoveries of knowledge. No. Everything is old, revealed knowledge. Everything is old, revealed knowledge, going on. Just like history repeats itself.

Just like this is, this is summer season. It is no new . . . newcomer. The summer season comes. You know in your life. The summer season came last year, and again it has come. And we can foretell also that in the month of December there will be winter season. It is not foretelling. It is going on like that, circle. So everything is rotating, history is repeating. So knowledge, whatever knowledge is there, that is not a new thing. It is all old.

So Kṛṣṇa says, sa eva ayaṁ te, te adya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Purātanaḥ means the old, purātanaḥ. "I am speaking to you this yoga system, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness." This Bhagavad-gītā yoga system is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this yoga is. So He says that sa evāyaṁ; "I am speaking to you again that oldest knowledge, oldest knowledge of bhagavad-yoga, Bhagavad-gītā. I am not speaking to you something new."

Now, you can understand that Bhagavad-gītā was first spoken to the sun-god, and we have calculated that Kṛṣṇa's speaking to sun-god, even accepting, it comes to some forty millions of years before, it was spoken. You have to believe it. So forty millions of years before, it was spoken first. And we do not know how many millions of years it was spoken again before that also. Because history is repeating. And we do not know.

Our fund of knowledge is very poor. We cannot present history of this present world more than three thousand years. But in the Vedic scripture we find history, millions and millions of years. That is the beauty of Vedic literature. So because we cannot find out in the modern day three thousand . . . more than three thousand years of chronological history, that does not mean that there was no history before and there was no historical incidences. No. That we should not conclude in that way.

So Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am speaking to you . . ." Sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya (BG 4.3): "What I am speaking to you now, today, it is not new. It was spoken long, long before. It is that oldest system of yoga I'm speaking to you." Bhakto 'si. Bhakto 'si: "And why I am speaking to you?" This is the point to be noted, that bhakto 'si. This Bhagavad-gītā yoga is to be understood by a person who is a bhakta, who is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can understand it.

Bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti rahasyam . . . because there is a mystery, mystery of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is impossible to be adopted by a person who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the qualification. To understand, to become Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is rather a difficult job, because unless one is a devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, it will be a difficult problem. This, this very word, it suggests, bhakto 'si, that one's qualification must be that he's a devotee of Kṛṣṇa so that he can understand Bhagavad-gītā.

Now, Arjuna says that . . . now, people, why Arjuna? Anyone can say, "Well, Kṛṣṇa is a historical personality of Mahābhārata. How it is possible that He spoke to sun-god forty millions of years before? Oh, this is something wonderful. How can we believe it?" Suppose if I say that, "I narrated, I gave a speech in the sun planet, and forty millions of years before," you'll laugh: "Oh, Swāmījī's speaking some nonsense, that forty millions of years before he spoke that this Bhagavad-gītā in the sun planet." But He . . . that is not the case with Kṛṣṇa, because He's the Personality of Godhead. My case is different. If I say, you can disbelieve it. But when Kṛṣṇa says, you cannot disbelieve it.

So even if you believe it, or do not believe it, that position is being cleared by Arjuna. Because Arjuna knew it perfectly well that it is quite possible by Kṛṣṇa to speak such-and-such thing forty millions of years before, because He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But for others, who will hear this Bhagavad-gītā in future, for them, he's making the point clear and asking Kṛṣṇa, aparaṁ bhavato janma paraṁ janma vivasvataḥ; "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are born just . . . You are contemporary of me. Say, eighty years or ninety years before You were born along with me. Your age and my age, practically the same. How it is possible that forty millions of years before You spoke to sun-god?" Just see. It is very intelligent question by Arjuna so that the point may be clear in future, people may not misunderstand Kṛṣṇa.

Aparaṁ bhavato janma paraṁ janma vivasvataḥ. Vivasvataḥ means the sun-god. "Oh, sun-god? Oh, sun planet was created some hundreds of millions of years before, and You say that You said to sun-god? How it is possible, because You are born not even hundred years completed?" Katham etad vijānīyāṁ tvam ādau proktavān iti: "Then how I am to understand it that You spoke formerly to sun-god?" It is, here . . . it is very intelligent question. It is very intelligent question.

Now, what Kṛṣṇa answers? Śrī-bhagavān uvāca. Now, it is particularly said that bhagavān uvāca: "The Personality of Godhead says." What does He say?

bahūni me vyatītāni

janmāni tava cārjuna

tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi

na tvaṁ vettha parantapa

(BG 4.5)

Now, the . . .

(aside) Yes, come on.

Kṛṣṇa says, "My dear Arjuna, yes, your question is very intelligent question that you are asking Me how it is possible that forty millions of years before I spoke this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god. Yes. But you, you should know it that," bahūni me vyatītāni janmāni tava cārjuna, "you and Myself . . . although I am God, I take incarnation many, many times. And you are a living entity; you are also taking your birth repeatedly so many times. So we have passed already. The difference between you and Me is this, that tāni veda . . . tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi, I, I remember what I did in the past, long, long years before, but you cannot remember." That is the difference between God and man, or God and living entity.

Our, our position as living entity . . . we are also eternal. Just like God is eternal, similarly, we are also eternal. But the difficulty is that we change our body. We change our body. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like we change our dress, similarly, we change our body. And as soon as we change our body, now, we forget everything. Death means forgetfulness. That's all.

Just like at night, when you sleep, you forget yourself. You forget yourself that "I am the father of such-and-such children, I am the husband of such-and-such . . ." You dream that you are in a different place. Sometimes you are on the sea, sometimes on the sky, sometimes on something. You forget yourself. You forget yourself. Again, when you wake up, oh, you remember, "Oh, I am such-and-such person. I have to do such-and-such and such-and-such . . ." This is going on. So death means forgetfulness. That's all.

Now, if it is a fact that I am eternal, so before getting this body, I had another body or another father, mother, family or society or country and everything. But do we remember it, and what country I was there? In what family I was there? Sometimes we get news from newspaper that a child is born, he is speaking about his previous birth.

Perhaps you know. Sometimes it may be possible in extraordinary cases. But it is a fact. It is a fact that in my previous life I had also another body. I had my father and mother and country and family. It may be I was a dog or cat or man or bird. That doesn't matter. But as living entity, I am eternal. I had my another body. Similarly, we, we are preparing another body in this life.

Just like, under the preparation of my previous life, I have got this body. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We get our body according to our karma. According to our karma. If we do sāttvika-karma . . . Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18); "Those who are in the modes of goodness, they are promoted to higher status of life or higher planets, like that."

And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ: "Those who are in the modes of passion, they remain here in this Bhūrloka." And adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those who are engrossed with the modes of ignorance, they may be degraded from this planet to another, degraded planet, or another life or animal life. This is the process, going on. And we forget. Forgetfulness.

There is some incidences that sometimes Brahmā, he was cursed to become a, a hog. He became a hog. Then after . . . not Brahmā—Indra, the king of heaven. The king of heaven, he made some offense under . . . on the feet of his spiritual master, Bṛhaspati, and he cursed him that "You are just like a hog. You take the birth of a hog." So he became a hog.

Now, when the throne of the heavenly kingdom was vacant due to the absence of Indra—he has become a hog in this earth—so Brahmā came. Brahmā came that, "Mr. Such-and-such, you have now become hog for your offensive activities. Now I have come to deliver you. Please come with me." Now, the hog said, "Oh, I cannot go with you. I cannot go with you. Oh, I have got so many responsibility. I have got my children. I have got my wife. I have got my country. I have got my society." The hog, he's . . . so even you offer the hog to take him to the heaven, he will refuse: "Oh, I have got so much responsibility." This is called forgetfulness. This is called forgetfulness.

Now, the Lord Kṛṣṇa comes that "What you are, nonsense, doing this material world?" Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You come to Me. I give you all protection." "Oh, I don't believe You, Sir. I have got more important business here. I don't believe You." This is our position. This is our position—forgetfulness.

A conditioned soul is forgetful. Forgetful. Prakṣepātmikā, vikṣepātmikā. There are . . . two forces of nature is acting upon us by which we decide something that, "We now, this life, I shall make spiritual advancement. Now it is decided." And next moment the illusory māyā, or illusory energy, says: "What nonsense spiritual life you are going to do? Just enjoy this here. You have got so many enjoyment. Why you are thinking. So prakṣepātmikā, vikṣepātmikā. This is going on. So forgetfulness. So that is the difference between God and man.

Here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is clearly said that "My dear Arjuna, you also had many, many births. You were . . . you are also, because you are constant companion of Me, so whenever I take incarnation in the any planet, so you also, you are also with Me. So when I took incarnation in the sun planet and I spoke this Bhagavad-gītā to sun-god, you were also present with Me, but unfortunately, you have forgotten, because you are a living being and I am the Supreme Lord." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord . . . I cannot remember. Forgetfulness is my nature.

Now, you cannot say . . . now . . . just now it is eight o'clock. Can you say exactly at eight o'clock what you had been doing in the morning or yesterday, this evening? Oh, you have to remember it. So while I cannot remember even what I was doing twelve hours before or twenty-four hours before, oh, what I can remember what was going on in my previous life? It is not possible. Another thing is that why Kṛṣṇa can remember and why you cannot remember it? What is that? Why is this difference? The difference is that Kṛṣṇa does not change His body. You'll find in the . . . this chapter you'll find that Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7).

paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ

vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām

dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya

sambhavāmi yuge yuge

(BG 4.8)

Ātma-māyā, ātma-māyā. Ātma-māyā means He comes down as He is. He does not change His body. But we are conditioned soul. We change our body. That is the difference. And because we change our body, we forget everything. That is the difference.

Tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi. Kṛṣṇa says that, "I remember whatever has been done in My previous incarnations, and millions and millions of years before, I can remember them. I know past, future, present. Not only past, future, present of My activities, but past, future, present of everyone's activities." You'll find. Vedāhaṁ sama, sarvam etam. In the Tenth Chapter, you'll find that He knows past, present . . .

And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find that the definition of the Supreme Lord is given as sarva-jña. Sarva-jña. Sarva-jña means one who knows everything: past, present, future, everything. He's sa . . . that is the qualification of the Supreme Lord, sarva-jña. We are not sarva-jña. Even as the most perfect living entity, just like Brahmā, Śiva, they are, they are also not sarva-jña. Sarva-jña is only Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is sarva-jña. So that is the difference between man and God, or living entity and the Supreme Absolute Personality of Godhead. He knows. He knows.

Here it is distinct . . . if you have to believe Bhagavad-gītā, then the distinction you have to believe, you have to take. You cannot say that "There is no difference between me and Kṛṣṇa." No. There is difference. Here the difference is clearly explained that, "That is the difference between you and Me, that you forget. You cannot remember all the incidences of your life, past, present and future, but I can remember." That is the difference.

Now, the next question is that if He does not change His body, why He takes as . . . comes as incarnation? These are very difficult questions. There are some many difference of opinions amongst the philosophers. Somebody says that Kṛṣṇa assumes the material body when He comes. No. He doesn't assume the material body like us.

Then He could not remember. Just here is a critical point. If He would have accepted material body like us, then He could not remember, because we have got this material body, and due to this material body and change, we cannot remember anything. Therefore the natural conclusion is that He does not change His body. In the next verse He says:

ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā

bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san

prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya

sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā

(BG 4.6)

Now this is called . . . as we generally call, "God is almighty, all-powerful." Now here this all-powerfulness is explained that, ajo 'pi; "Although I have no birth; I am eternal." Similarly, the living entity, he has also no birth. This birth which we consider as birth, this is a birth of this body. I am also aja. Not that I was born at a certain time and I shall die at a such time. The birth and death which we have accepted, it is due to this body. But I am not this body. That point we have already discussed, that I am not this body.

So our birth and death calculation is on account of this body. Otherwise, we are as good as Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa is aja—He never takes birth or never dies, there is no birth and death for Kṛṣṇa—similarly, we living entities, we have also no birth and death. We are also eternal. But why this birth and death? This birth and death due to my this material body. So as soon as we get our original, spiritual body and get out of the contamination of this material body, then we shall be as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is the whole process to understand.

So we have to . . . this Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that by the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness we shall revive our original, spiritual body. And when we revive our original, spiritual body, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha . . . (Bs 5.1). Sat-cit-ānanda. That is the formation of Kṛṣṇa, and that is our formation also. Sat means eternal. Cit means full knowledge. Eternal, full knowledge and ānanda. Ānanda. Ānanda means bliss.

Now, we can make distinction from the spiritual body and the material body is this, that as the description of the spiritual body is given, sat-cit-ānanda, eternal, full of knowledge and blissful, so just the opposite number is this material body. It is neither sat, nor cit, nor ānanda. It is not sat. Sat means eternal. Now, this, this body is not eternal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ (BG 2.18).

As we have already discussed, that this body is perishable, whereas the person who is occupying this body, he's imperishable. Imperishable. So this body's perishable. Therefore it is not sat. And it is . . . it is full of ignorance. Therefore it is not cit. And because full of ignorance and because it is temporary, therefore we have got miseries. Just like we are feeling too hot. Today the temperature is very high. Why we are feeling? Because due to this body. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14).

Similarly, in the month of December we shall feel severe cold. Why? Due to this body. Due to this . . . and as soon as we get spiritual body, we don't feel. We are unaffected by any material actions.

You'll find that there are many sages and saints who are almost spiritually realised soul, don't care for all this heat and cold. Still you'll find. If you happen to go to Allahabad in the month of December, there is a fair. All sādhus come there, and in the severe cold and . . . of course, not so cold as in your country, but still, sometimes it is forty degrees, temperature. But you'll find many saints there, bare, I mean to say, body. There is no dress. They are sitting, dead of night. You see? They don't care for cold or heat. You see? Because they are spiritually advanced. So as you make your progress spiritually, as you become hot . . .

Just like I have given several times the example: if a iron, iron put into the fire, it gets warm, warmer, warmer and becomes red hot, and as soon as it is red hot, it is no longer iron—it is fire. The iron, wherever it will touch, it will burn because it has got the quality of fire. Similarly, even if you are in this bodies, material body, if you advance yourself in spiritual consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be spiritualized. Your body will be spiritualized. You'll be no more be affected by this material contamination. The more you make advance, you'll feel it. Pratyakṣāvagamaṁ dharmyam. It is not for future tasting, but you'll understand it. Understand it. So we have to make our progress in that way. Now, here Kṛṣṇa says that, "Although I am aja . . ."

ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā

bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san

prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya

sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā

(BG 4.6)

Just like Kṛṣṇa's birth, Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance, is just like the sun. Is just like the sun. Now sun, in the morning you'll see that it, it appears as if it is born from the eastern horizon. It is not born. The sun is always in the sky. It is the position of the earth in which we understand that sun is now rising from the eastern horizon. He's neither rising nor he's dipping into the sea. He is, the sun is as it is, in his position, but due to the position, changing position of this earth, we see that the sun is rising and sun is setting. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa, when He comes as incarnation, He comes just like this, in the same way.

There is some historical, I mean to, calculation, when Kṛṣṇa comes on this earth. It is calculated that 864 crores of years after He comes once. Just like you can see the sun rising after twelve hours . . . after twenty-four hours. The morning sun rising takes place every twenty-four hours or the sun setting also takes place every twenty-four hours. Similarly, there is also time limit. That is mentioned, When Kṛṣṇa comes. When Kṛṣṇa rises. He, He's rising . . . just like sun, sunset and sunrising is going on every moment, every moment.

Now, if you enquire where is now sunset on sunrise, you can understand in different countries somewhere the sun is now rising. Now, in America the sunset, and India it is rising. It is rising. Exactly it is now eight, quarter past eight, and if you know by radio message what is the time in India you'll find that it is quarter past eight in the morning, and the sun has just rising. Now, here the sunset, and the sun . . . similarly, if you enquire from Japan or any other country, the sun, the sun is some, somewhere in the meridian; sometimes . . . somewhere it is, I mean to dead of night.

So this timing difference is just like going on according to the position of the world movement. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance is like that. It is not that Kṛṣṇa is born and Kṛṣṇa is gone. No, it is not like that. Somewhere is Kṛṣṇa there. Just like the sun is somewhere. There are innumerable universes. The one universe, you see, oh, this is only one; but there are many. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that ekāṁśena sthito jagat (BG 10.42).

Ekāṁśena sthito jagat. This material manifestation, with innumerable universes, is only a one part of manifestation of the Supreme Lord. Ekāṁśena sthito jagat. These descriptions are there in the Bhagavad-gītā.

So we should always remember that we are reading Bhagavad-gītā and we should understand it as it is. We should not make any interpretation. That is the wrong thing. And if there was some necessity of interpretation, we . . . you should not think that Kṛṣṇa left the matter for being interpreted by in later age by some scholar. Or He could have disclose this Himself. He was quite competent. No. There is no question of interpretation. We have to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If we cannot understand, that is a defect in me, not in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we have to find out the defect in me.

So Lord Kṛṣṇa says, ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san: "Although I am the Lord, I am the Supreme Lord of everything, and although I am unborn, aja, and avyayātmā, I have no change, still, prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya." Prakṛtiṁ svām.

Now, you should know there are two kinds of prakṛti. Prakṛti means nature. You'll find it in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā that the Lord says that He has got two . . . why Lord says? In the Vedic scripture also we'll find, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8); "There are different kinds of nature of the Supreme." Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. So out of many kinds of nature of the Supreme Lord, they have divided the whole thing into three division. One is called external nature and the other is called internal nature. And there is another nature, which is called marginal nature. The external nature, the material world, manifestation of this material world, is external nature. And this is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, as we'll find it in the Seventh Chapter, that apareyam. Aparā. Aparā means inferior or lower nature. Lower nature. So He has got higher nature.

One may question that "Why? The Supreme Lord is all-good. Why He has got higher nature and lower nature?" Yes, He has got, because He says. You cannot say that there is no higher nature and lower nature. There is also higher nature. Now, here the Lord says that "When I come as incarnation, when I appear . . ." Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. Svām means His higher nature. He does not accept this material nature. He does not accept this material nature.

Just the example . . . we can give very tangible example. Just like in the prison house sometimes the head of the country goes to visit, to see, to inspect how the prison life is going on or to give them some instruction, some good lessons that, "Why you are rotting in prison? You become good citizen."

Now, suppose the head of the state goes to the prison and to instruct the prisoners, and if the prisoners think, "Oh, he is also a prisoner. The head of the state who has come to instruct, he is also one of the prisoners, like us." So similarly, if we think that Kṛṣṇa is like us—He is also assumed the material body and He is one of us—then it is a mistake. Then it is a mistake.

That is explained. In the later chapters you'll find. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11); "Oh, because I appear just like a man, the foolish man considers Me as one of them. But I am not as one of . . . I am not one of them." Here it is clearly said that "I appear." "I appear." Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. "I appear in My own spiritual nature. I don't accept this lower nature, this material nature."

So we are, when we appear . . . just like we have appeared. We have appeared in this material world, accepting this material body, the lower nature. But when Kṛṣṇa comes, He does not accept the lower nature. He comes in His original, superior, or higher nature. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ourselves. Here it is clearly said, prakṛtiṁ svām. Svām means own, personal, internal nature.

Just like everybody has got some personal affair and some public affair. Everybody. A man, high-court judge, he may be, as a public man, he may be a different personality in the high-court bench. But at home he's a different person. A different person. In the high-court bench one has to address that person, "My Lord," but at home his wife addressing him by his own name, "Mr. Harry! Harry! Why don't you do it?" Oh, there is no question of "My Lord."

Similarly, Kṛṣṇa has got two nature, lower nature and higher nature. The higher nature is internal potency. That is His real life. So here Kṛṣṇa says that "I come." Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san: "Because I need not come here. I need not come." Bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san.

Just like if He's the Supreme Lord, why does He come here? Yes, He does not need come here, but if He comes here, we cannot object. We cannot object. We cannot say that He cannot come here. He is free. He is svayambhu, He is fully independent. If He likes, He can come. Just like the example: if the head of the state goes to a prison house, it is not that he has been forced to come there just like other prisoners, but he comes to inspect, to see. It is his du . . . it is his liking.

Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa comes here with a purpose. What is that purpose? He comes here to reclaim these fallen souls. We are part and parcel . . . we are . . . Kṛṣṇa loves us more than we love Him. We do not love Him, but Kṛṣṇa loves. Kṛṣṇa loves every living being. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayo yāḥ (BG 14.4): "Every living being, whatever form he is, that doesn't matter; I am the bīja-pradaḥ pitā, I am the seed-giving father."

So the father is always affectionate to the sons. The sons may forget the father, but the father cannot forget. So Kṛṣṇa comes here out of His love for us to deliver us, to give us the right path. Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66); "My dear sons, why you are rotting in this miserable world? You come to Me. I'll give you all protection. You are the son of the Supreme. So you can enjoy life very supremely, very magnificently, without any death. Why you are rotting?" That is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. Don't think that Kṛṣṇa comes just like we are come here, being obliged, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Forced by the laws of nature according to our karma. He does not come like that. That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and myself.

Thank you very much. Now, if there is any question, you can ask. (break) At that time, Kṛṣṇa gave him a special elevation, to see that form. But that is not possible to see by every man. You, perhaps you know it. So at certain stage one has to be elevated to understand Kṛṣṇa. But these questions are common thing. Common thing. Just like there is a verse in Brahma-saṁhitā:

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ

govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

(Bs 5.38)

Now, it is very nice verse, that "Santaḥ, those who are spiritually advanced, great sages and saints, out of their love for Kṛṣṇa they see Kṛṣṇa at every moment. Every moment." Santaḥ sadaiva. Sadaiva means always, without any interval. They always see Kṛṣṇa. Santaḥ sadaiva. And where does he see? Hṛdayeṣu: in their heart, always see Kṛṣṇa is present there. Then why? Why? Because he has acquired that qualification by elevation.

So of course, to understand Kṛṣṇa, to see Kṛṣṇa, it requires the spiritual elevation of life. It is . . . but that elevation is being taught in the Bhagavad-gītā step by step, step by step. We are in the, just in the . . . so one has to understand Kṛṣṇa by step by step. This study of Bhagavad-gītā, as you make progress seriously, that is your elevation. That is your elevation. So when one is perfectly elevated . . .

Just like Arjuna, after hearing this Bhagavad-gītā, when he was perfectly elevated, he said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73): "Yes, I shall fight." Vacanaṁ tava. He does not say: "I shall fight." He says that "I shall act according to Your word. Not only fighting; whatever You order me, I shall do it." That is the highest point of elevation.

He . . . in our lowest stage of life, we want to satisfy myself or satisfy my senses. That is the lowest grade of life. Just like the animal. The animal, they have no other business except satisfaction of their senses. That is the lowest grade of life, simply seeking after satisfying the senses. Then highest grade of life?

The same satisfac . . . not of his own self, senses, but the senses of the Supreme. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). This is the, I mean, the lowest stage of life and the highest stage of life. Lowest stage of life is when the living entity's engaged in satisfying the senses. That's all. And the highest grade of life is when he's engaged in the matter of satisfying the senses of the Supreme. That is the difference. That's all.

So this elevation takes place gradually, as we make advance by understanding Bhagavad-gītā and similar granthas from authorities. Like that. This elevation takes place. But the lowest point of life and the highest point of life is differenced like this. The senses are there and the man is there and everything is there. Nothing to be changed.

In the bhakti-mārga is like that. In the Nārada Pañcarātra you'll find, tat-paratvena nirmalam. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. When one's sense becomes purified . . . sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170).

Now, at the present moment, I am covered by . . . I am embarrassed by so many designation. My senses are engaged in performing or satisfying my designational position. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am the father of such and such." "I am the husband of such and . . ." So my position is now embarrassed with so many designations. So my senses are engaged in satisfying or fulfilling the obligation of this, meaning embarrassment.

Now, when these senses are purified by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then like Arjuna we shall say, "Yes." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73); "Now I am prepared to satisfy Your senses. I am not going to satisfy any more my senses." That is the difference between spiritual promotion to the highest state and the lowest grade of life. And this you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, how he's improving, how he's improving . . . (end)