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[[Category:BG Lectures - Chapter 04|0411-12]]
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<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Lectures - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Lectures - by Date|Lectures by Date]], [[:Category:1966 - Lectures|1966]]'''</div>
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<div class="center">[[File:speaker-icon-50px.png|link=]][[Vanipedia:660725 Lecture - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in New York|<big><big>'''Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Lecture'''</big></big>]]</div>
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Prabhupāda:
 
  
<div class="lec_verse">
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<div class="code">660725BG.NY - July 25, 1966</div>
janma karma (ca) me divyam<br />
 
(evaṁ) yo vetti tattvataḥ<br />
 
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma<br />
 
naiti mām eti kaunteya<br />
 
[[BG 4.9]] </div>
 
  
  
Lord Kṛṣṇa says that "The process of My birth and the process of My activities, they are all transcendental." And anyone who can understand the transcendental activities, appearance, disappearance of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then the result is that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [[BG 4.9]] . The result is that anyone who understands these transcendental activities of the Supreme Lord, tattvataḥ, in truth, the result is that he becomes a liberated person.
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<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1966/660725BG-NEW_YORK.mp3</mp3player>
  
Tyaktvā deham. Tyaktvā means by quitting, by giving up this present material body he at once is transferred to the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti [[BG 4.9]] . He does not require to come back here in this material world to have this material body. He at once develops his own spiritual body just like Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. Simply by understanding the transcendental activities and the appearance and disappearance, he becomes fully spiritualized, and the result is that he at once... He does not get. The spiritual body is already existing. I am spirit; I have got my spiritual body, but that body is now covered by this matter.
 
  
So by understanding the transcendental activities of Śrī Kṛṣṇa, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one can become liberated. And what is the result of that liberation? That is also spoken in the Eighth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. The Lord says, mām upetya tu kaunteya: "My dear Arjuna, Kaunteya, son of Kuntī, please note it that mām upetya, anyone who comes to Me," mām upetya tu kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti [[BG 8.15]] , "that he does not come again to this material world, which is duḥkhālayam, duḥkhālayam, a place of misery."
+
Prabhupāda:
  
This material world is certified by the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the place of misery. Now, if this place is made for that purpose, just to give us miseries only, how you can make it a place of happiness? The place is meant for that purpose. So Lord Kṛṣṇa says that "Somebody, anybody who comes back to Me, he hasn't got to come back again to this place of miseries." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [[BG 4.9]] . And again He says, mām upetya tu kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam: [[BG 4.9]] "This place is full of misery."
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:''ye yathā māṁ prapadyante''
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:''tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham''
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:''mama vartmānuvartante''
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:''manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ''
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:([[BG 4.11 (1972)|BG 4.11]])
  
We are deluded, illusioned. We are accepting this place as permanent settlement. We are making plans, so many plans, to make a permanent settlement, but the Lord says it is not only full of misery, aśāśvatam, you cannot remain here permanently. However make your plan to live here permanently, you cannot live here. You have to give up. You can spoil your energy for making this material world very comfortable or you may live for some years very comfortably, but cruel death will come and snatch from comfortable position and put you into another position which is beyond your control. You cannot say that "I have made my position very secure. I am very comfortable with great endeavor by advancement of economic development, by advancement of material science. Let me remain here. I am very happy." The time will say, "No, that will not be allowed. You must leave immediately, immediately, without delay."
+
This ''śloka'', this verse, we discussed last Friday evening, and I tried to explain the supreme leadership of the Supreme Lord. By nature we are destined to follow a leadership. Nobody is independent. Even in the animal society, the animals, they have also got a group, and there is leader of the group. Perhaps you know it. So in every group . . . we are trying to make some group according to the similarity of thoughts and propensities. There are association, you know, various association: mercantile association, bankers' association, lawyers' association, and there is a leader. That is the nature's way.
  
You know your President Kennedy. He was going in a procession, and the time came, and he had to leave everything at once, at once, without any hesitation. You cannot hesitate. So we are in the grip of the material nature. However we may declare ourself that we are independent, we are not independent. We are dependent, completely dependent. We may foolishly mislead ourself by the sense of independence. No. You are not independent. You are completely under the control of the material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [[BG 7.14]] . The material nature is so strong that it is very difficult to get out of the entanglement.
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Now, the supreme leader is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. That we do not know. Supreme leader, the leadership is accepted, but we do not know that the supreme leader is the Supreme Lord, or Kṛṣṇa. So that is informed in the Vedic literature, and in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' also, the same thing is confirmed that, ''ye yathā māṁ prapadyante'': "Now, everyone is under My leadership. Everyone. There is no exception." Especially He mentions the ''manuṣya''. ''Manuṣya'' means the human being.
  
But there is a way. That is also said in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me..." The whole process, the whole process of material activities, material nature, is going on under this principle, that we are required to go back to the eternal world, to get our eternal life and eternal blissful knowledge. These things are awaiting us. But if we do not try, do not endeavor for attaining that sublime position and spoil our reserve energy in making an adjustment of this temporary material world, that is our foolishness.
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The human being especially mentioned here, because amongst all the human beings in this lower status of our existence, the human being is considered the highest perfectional stage of living condition. And especially human being has the prerogative to understand the supreme leadership of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The animals cannot understand it or the persons who are in the animal nature.
  
You will find in the Seventh Chapter in Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says,
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Just like you will find in the Seventh Chapter of ''Bhagavad-gītā'', the Lord says:
  
<div class="lec_verse">
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:''na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ''
na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ<br />
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:''prapadyante narādhamāḥ''
prapadyante narādhamāḥ<br />
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:''māyayāpahṛta-jñānā''
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā<br />
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:''āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ''
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ<br />
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:([[BG 7.15 (1972)|BG 7.15]])
[[BG 7.15]] </div>
 
  
 +
"Those who are always engaged in mischievous activities, those who are fools, those who are lowest of the mankind and those whose knowledge has been deluded by the external energy, they do not make their surrender unto the Supreme Lord." But there are other persons, who are virtuous. They are considered that ''ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha'' ([[BG 7.16 (1972)|BG 7.16]]).
  
Lord says that "there are persons who are duṣkṛtina, duṣkṛtina, or miscreants, mūḍha, foolish; duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, and narādhama— and the lowest of the human kind—and māyayāpahṛta-jñānā— and they have been plundered of their real knowledge by the stringent laws of material nature. Such people do not come unto Me."
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There are other persons who are distressed and in need of some wealth or inquisitive or really research worker in the field of understanding what is the Absolute Truth. And this morning we were discussing in the morning class that the person who are research scholar in the matter of understanding the nature of Kṛṣṇa, transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he is called ''jñānī'', or philosopher, and he is accepted, with ''bhakti'', with devotional service, he is accepted as special for the attention of the Supreme Lord.
  
So these things are... If we study Bhagavad-gītā, we have to take it, Bhagavad-gītā, as it is. We cannot give our own interpretation just to suit our purpose. This thing already been explained in this Fourth Chapter, that it is understood by the paramparā system, by the disciplic succession. So we have to take up this knowledge from the disciplic succession. And this Bhagavad-gītā was spoken some millions of years before to the sun-god. That is also stated. And the sun-god instructed this Bhagavad-gītā again to Manu, Manu to Ikṣvāku. And in this way this is coming by disciplic succession. But during the time of Kurukṣetra war that great philosophy of yoga system of Bhagavad-gītā was lost, and therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa again said to Arjuna. Therefore if we want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, then we have to understand as Arjuna understood it. That is the process.
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Now, everyone . . . therefore everyone is following the leadership or the representative of the leadership. Now you will find in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', when there is some specific qualification of a person, just like political leader or some spiritual leader . . . leader there must be. So suppose a political leader or religious leader is there, and thousands of people are following him. So that is confirmed in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', that they are invested with certain power of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. ''Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo 'ṁśa-sambhavam'' ([[BG 10.41 (1972)|BG 10.41]]).
  
So here the Lord says that janma karma me divyam: [[BG 4.9]] "My appearance and disappearance..." Mark this word, "appearance and disappearance." "Birth and death" is not applicable to Lord. "Birth and death" is applicable to this material body. The material body has its birth, and the material body has its death, dissolution. But the spiritual body is eternal. It has neither death nor birth. Therefore the spiritual body—the exact language to be used, "appearance and disappearance."
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So everyone is following directly or indirectly the supreme leadership of Kṛṣṇa. And the perfectional stage of accepting that leadership is when we accept Śrī Kṛṣṇa as our direct leader.
  
I have several times spoken in this meeting. Just like the sun. The sun disappears and appears. For the sun there is no question of birth and death because sun is eternal. So anything eternal... So when the Lord comes it is just like the sun appear and sun disappears. It does not mean because we do not see Kṛṣṇa just now in our presence... Of course, in transcendental sense, when we acquire that transcendental sense, we see Kṛṣṇa through this Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavad-gītā is not different from Kṛṣṇa. That is the, I mean to say, sense of absolute knowledge. In the absolute world there is no difference between the person and the words.
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We are going to that path gradually, going to that path gradually, but in the middle we are hampered, because there is want of sufficient knowledge. When sufficient knowledge is there . . . you'll find in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]). "After many, many births, when one is developed in his real consciousness, he can understand." What? What he understand? ''Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ'': "That Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. He is all in all. So I have to surrender unto Him."
  
Just like this tape recorder. It is being recorded. My words or my songs are being recorded. But they are different from me. This is dual, the world of duality. But the absolute world, there is no such difference. Just like we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. This name Kṛṣṇa and the personality Kṛṣṇa is the same. Is the same. Hare Kṛṣṇa means when I hear the sound, the transcendental sound vibration Kṛṣṇa, that means Kṛṣṇa is on my tongue, on my ear. Therefore, if we chant this vibration of transcendental sound with devotion and with attention, that is the highest type of meditation and yoga. And very easy. The process is that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and exactly the same sound you hear. So your mind is concentrated on this Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is not different. This sound Kṛṣṇa is not different from person Kṛṣṇa. Therefore when we chant...
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That is the perfection of knowledge. This stage one has to reach. Never mind whether he is following a principle of philosophical research, whether he is following the yogic principle or whether he is following philanthropic work or political leadership or . . . so many things are going on, but the whole thing is targeted toward Kṛṣṇa. How it is targeted? That is explained. I shall try to explain.
  
<div class="lec_verse">
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Now, the whole material world is working under two energies: the lower energy and the higher energy. And the both of the energies, they have got different dimensions. Just like in this atomic age, you know, the material energy ends in the atomic portion: atom, ''paramāṇu''. Similarly, this is . . . this material energy is called lower energy, and there is another energy, which is called spiritual energy. So both the energies, they are emanating from the Supreme Lord. In the ''Vedānta-sūtra'' also it is confirmed, ''janmādy asya yataḥ'' ([[SB 1.1.1]]): "All energies, they are coming, emanating, from the Supreme." In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' also you will find the same thing confirmed. ''Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate'' ([[BG 10.8 (1972)|BG 10.8]]). "I am the fountainhead," Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa says. "I am the fountainhead of everything."
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare<br />
 
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare</div>
 
  
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So now to understand how everything is He, so two energies are working in this world in our experience. One is superior energy, or the higher energy, and the other is the inferior energy. The inferior energy is matter, and the superior or the higher energy is the spirit soul.
  
[My dear Lord, and the spiritual energy of the Lord, kindly engage me in Your service. I am now embarrassed with this material service. Please engage me in Your service.]
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So as we find . . . you have got now . . . we have no experience. Scientific advancement of knowledge, so far we have in this material world, that is bounded within the area of material energy. They have not succeeded in finding out the spiritual energy. Otherwise they would have given life to the dead man. That has not been possible. Suppose a man is dead. What is that death? Death means separation of two energies: the material energy and the spiritual energy. That is death. The supreme spiritual energy and the atomic part of it, as it is stated in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', ''mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ'' ([[BG 15.7 (1972)|BG 15.7]]).
  
...it is as good as Kṛṣṇa.
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Just you have experience in this atomic age the minute quantity of atomic material existence, similarly, there is spiritual atomic existence.
  
Therefore it is stated here that "My appearance, disappearance and activity and glories, they are divyam." Divyam means transcendental. They do not belong to this world of duality. This world is of duality. But transcendental means that it is above, above this dualism. It is the absolute world. So anyone who understands this fact, that Kṛṣṇa is not different from this sound Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not different from this Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is not different from anything which is connected with Kṛṣṇa... These things are to be understood.
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Now, this spiritual atomic existence . . . the other day I explained and several times that atom is also described in the ''Padma-Purāṇa'', Vedic literature. And what is the form of that spiritual energy, I mean to say, atom, spiritual atom? It is ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. You have got experience up to the upper portion of the hair. It is just a little point. Now divide it into ten thousand part, and that one part is yourself, spiritual atom. This is our position. And that spiritual energy is so powerful that we, from that one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair . . .  
  
The whole world is the representation of the energy—that you will learn in the Seventh Chapter—is the manifestation of the energy of Kṛṣṇa. And it has been described. There are two kinds of energies: the lower energy and the higher energy. And the higher energy is the living entities. Just like we are. We living entities, we belong to the higher nature of the Supreme Lord. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [[BG 7.5]] . This world is moving, this world is made of lower nature, material, and the higher nature is the living entity. So anything which is connected with Kṛṣṇa, it becomes to the higher nature. Even in this material things, if it is dovetailed with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it turns into higher nature.
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It is not manufactured. So far what I am speaking to you, it is from authentic ''śāstras''. The original verse is that:
  
The example I have several times repeated: just like you put an iron rod in the fire. It becomes warm, warmer, and gradually it becomes red hot. When it is red hot, it is transformed into the nature of fire. It is no longer iron. Similarly, if you constantly remain in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you at once transfer yourself to the higher nature of Kṛṣṇa, and that is your liberation. And if we can die in higher nature, then this formula, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... [[BG 4.9]]. oh, he does not come back again to this material world. So we shall have to try, we shall have to practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in such a way, that we shall permanently exist in higher nature. And if we can die in that higher nature, then our place in the transcendental world is reserved. That is the whole thing.
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:''keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya''
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:''śatadhā kalpitasya ca''
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:''jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ''
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:''sa anantyāya kalpate''
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:(''Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad'' 5.9)
  
In India there is a common saying. They say, bhajan koro pūjān koro morte janle haya. The meaning is that however you may meditate upon... You may be very great meditator, or you may be a great religionist or yogi or a very learned scholar or whatever you may be, but everything will be tested at the time of your death. How far you have made progress, that will be tested at the time of your death. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram [[BG 8.6]] . Ante. Ante means at the end. Because this body is sure to end. Antavanta ime dehāḥ. This body is antavat; it is destined to be ended. "As sure as death." But nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. Śarīriṇaḥ means the spirit spark which is occupying this body. That is nitya; that is eternal.
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The exact verse is, in Sanskrit, that ''jīva'', the living entities, they are ''ananta''. ''Ananta'' means there is no limit how many there are. ''Ananta'', unlimited. Unlimited. And a small. Just like in the material world also, you will find unlimited atomic existence, similarly, in the spiritual also, there are unlimited spiritual atoms. And one of the atom is myself and yourself or the ant or the elephant. Everyone is containing that atomic portion of spiritual energy. And from that atomic spiritual energy develops this material body—from that spiritual.
  
So whole process is that the eternal has to get rid of this nonpermanent material contact. And he has to take leave for the spiritual world. So... (aside:) Come on. So the whole process is that during our present existing life we have to practice in such a way that we remain constantly on the higher nature, on the spiritual nature. Exactly in the same way: just like you put the iron rod in the fire and make it warmer, warmer, warmer, warmer, and so long it does not get red hot, so it becomes fire. This is practical. In the same way you have to put yourself in such a way that you are always in, constantly in, the higher nature, not that for one hour, two hour we make this association, we try to be in higher nature and after leaving this place we again turn to the lower nature. No. We should always, whatever we hear from here, from this place, we should try to understand clearly without any doubt.
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The matter cannot develop. Matter cannot develop. That you have got experience. A dead body does not develop. A living body develops. A child, when it comes out of the mother's womb, if the child is dead, oh, there is no further development, however you can keep the child in a very antiseptic way preserved. No. There is no development. Therefore it is concluded that the supreme spirit, Kṛṣṇa, from Him everything has come out. Everything has come out. Any stage you take, that is Kṛṣṇa.
  
Just like Lord Kṛṣṇa says here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [[BG 4.9]] , that anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa's appearance, disappearance and activities, all these transcendental things, he goes back to the kingdom of Godhead after leaving this body. Now this fact should be clearly understood. So I am trying to make you understand it clearly, how it can be possible. This is possible in this way, that you have to think of Kṛṣṇa always, "How is that that Kṛṣṇa appears in His transcendental body and how He disappears?" So everything, scrutinizingly we have to understand.
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And whenever I surrender . . . because my position is to surrender. I am spiritual, that atom, however big body I can develop. I can develop the body like an elephant, but the elephant is conducted under the direction of a man. You know? Such a big animal is controlled by a small boy of human being. So everyone is under control. We cannot deny that. So we have to . . . we are under control of different dimension of that spiritual energy covered by material energy. But the real control is from Kṛṣṇa. That we have to understand, either we follow this path or that path.
  
In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [[BG 4.34]] . One has to learn all these things from the person who is in the knowledge of these things. It is not that simply by purchasing one Bhagavad-gītā we understand everything. No. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. You have to approach a person who is in the knowledge of the thing. Without this, you cannot understand. It is recommended; it is essential.
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Now, suppose there are impersonalist who believe in the ultimate, I mean to say, merging into the supreme effulgence, ''brahma-jyoti''. And what is that ''brahma-jyoti''? ''Brahma-jyoti'' is just the atomic spiritual combination of atomic spiritual portions. That is ''brahma-jyoti''. Just like the sun ray. Those who are scientists, those who know what is the sun ray.
  
In the, I mean to say, in the Vedas also, Kaṭha Upaniṣad, this is said exclusively: Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [[SB 11.3.21]] . Tasmāt. Tasmāt means "therefore." "Therefore" means something has been said before. What is that? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. As soon as we begin to ask about the higher nature... That propensity should be awakened. In the lower nature we are busy in the matter of eating, sleeping, defending and sense gratification. So we should not be satisfied, simply remaining in the lower nature. The human life is meant for developing the higher nature. The Vedānta-sūtra therefore says, athāto brahma jijñāsā . Now, now we have got the developed consciousness of human body, now, this is the time for asking about the Supreme Brahman. (talking in the background) (aside:) You ask them to speak slowly. At least speak slowly. You go there.
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The sun ray is a small molecular, glazing atoms, the sun ray. You have got experience of sun ray, but what is the sun ray? It is not homogeneous. It is heterogeneous. When you can analyze the sun ray, you'll find small particles of molecules. Similarly, ''brahma-jyoti'' is also spiritual atoms combined together. Just like the sun rays, different material molecules combined together, similarly, ''brahma-jyoti'' is also like that.
  
So this higher nature has to be developed. This association, this transcendental association, is meant for developing that higher nature, higher nature. We must understand that higher nature that as it is recommended in the Vedas, that tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham [MU 1.2.12] . And again in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata also it is said that tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [[SB 11.3.21]] . In all the scriptures this is said. Without approaching a person who can teach you of the higher nature, you cannot develop. It is not possible to acquire. You have got the higher nature but to invoke that higher nature it requires the assistance of a person who is in the higher nature. That is recommended.
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Now, as in the sun rays there are different planets—they are also generated from the sun ray—similarly, from the ''brahma-jyoti'' there are different planets. But those planets we cannot see here. That is beyond this sky. So in that planets, and the spiritual planets, there are different forms of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is described in the ''Brahma-saṁhitā'':
  
If somebody says that "I don't require any help of any spiritual master," that is wrong. That is wrong. You will find all the great persons... And so far our Vedic culture is concerned, great learned scholars, just like Śaṅkarācārya... Perhaps you have heard the name of Śaṅkarācārya. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Lord Caitanya. In India there have been many, many great scholars. Even Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, who is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He had a spiritual master because He wanted to show the example. He did not require any circumstances to acquire knowledge from any other, but because He was playing just like a human being, so He set the example that He accepted a spiritual master. There are instances. So similarly, Lord Caitanya also, He accepted spiritual master. Śaṅkarācārya accepted spiritual master. That is the system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [[BG 4.2]] . The disciplic succession must be accepted.
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:''advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam''
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:''ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca''
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:''vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau''
 +
:''govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi''
 +
:(Bs 5.33)
  
Now, just like we are trying to understand from Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna, Arjuna is trying to understand. Arjuna also said to Kṛṣṇa, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [[BG 2.7]] "Just I am surrendering unto You. Oh, accept me as Your disciple, śiṣya." Śiṣya means disciple. Śiṣya, this is a grammatical word. Śās-dhātu. Śās-dhātu, it is a verb from which this word śiṣya comes. Śiṣya means one who accepts voluntarily the disciplinary measures from the higher authority. He is called a śiṣya. So in order to acquire, in order to be situated in that higher nature, we have to approach a personality like Kṛṣṇa or His representative, and so the best thing is that... Arjuna. Arjuna, he got this instruction from Bhagavad-gītā, and he developed that higher nature. So we have to take from Arjuna as it is. So we have to keep ourself always in the higher nature. Then the result will be that at the time of death, at the end, tyaktvā deham, tyaktvā deham.  
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Just like Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself with these molecular atomic portions of these living entities, similarly, He has got many other expansions as Viṣṇu. So that is the nice subject matter.
  
We are counting where, that day when we have to give up this body. Just like I am now seventy years old, so... I am now seventy years old. So my days are counted. So I have to give up this body. The warning is already there. So we have to prepare ourself. Just like when going from outer station, from New York to California, if you wanted to go, you have to make your preparation, say, fortnight before, reserving the seat and making all arrangement. Similarly, we must know that we have to leave this body and we must prepare for that. Unless we don't prepare for that, all of a sudden, if death comes, then our whole life is spoiled. That is the whole system. So we have to think of Kṛṣṇa. This is the very easiest process, that how, what are the activities, how Kṛṣṇa appears, how Kṛṣṇa disappears, what are the nature of Kṛṣṇa's activities. So we must try to understand these things.
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(aside) Raymond, you can get there light.
  
So janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [[BG 4.9]] . And this inquisitiveness, the appearance and disappearance of Kṛṣṇa, and His activities, this inquisitiveness, is transcendental enquiries. So we must know it from persons who are in the knowledge. And that way we shall be able to put ourself constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and the result will be that tyaktvā deham, by quitting this body we shall be at once transferred to the transcendental world. This is the process.
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So in every way this is a subject matter for studying, scrutinizingly studying, Kṛṣṇa science. Kṛṣṇa science is a great science. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has said just in the beginning of this chapter, ''janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ''. ''Yo vetti tattvataḥ''. Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa scientifically, what He is, how He is working, how His energies are acting . . . these things are to be known. And one who simply knows this science—what happens? Oh, ''tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]).
  
Now, in the next śloka Kṛṣṇa says that
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Simply by knowing this science he becomes liberated soul. He becomes liberated soul. And what is the position of liberated soul? Liberated soul, ''tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti''. That person who is liberated simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated, and he at once transferred to the spiritual sky into that planet which I am describing, Vaikuṇṭha planet. There are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and each and every planet, Kṛṣṇa is there in different Nārāyaṇa form.
  
<div class="lec_verse">
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So this is the opportunity in the human life to understand this. We are submitting to different energies of Kṛṣṇa. But if we directly submit ourself to Kṛṣṇa, what He, Kṛṣṇa, what He is, that is not very difficult to know, because Kṛṣṇa comes in this material world and displays His real nature—''anugrahāya manuṣyāṇām'', in ''Bhāgavata''—just to inform the human society that, "If you have no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, just see. I have incarnated. How I am doing, you can see. You can have."
vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā<br />
 
man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ<br />
 
bahavo jñāna-tapasā<br />
 
pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ<br />
 
[[BG 4.10]] </div>
 
  
 +
Just like something extraordinary happening in India, and if there is some photograph, cinematograph, and you see in the picture by a scope, cinema, you see the actually, what is happening. But Kṛṣṇa's pastime is not like that. Just like originally, the incidence which is happening in India, you have got a photograph. You see in cinema. This cinema picture is a shadow of that actual picture. But when Kṛṣṇa comes, because He is absolute, the same picture which is in the spiritual world, the same picture is represented here. There is no difference.
  
Kṛṣṇa says that "Arjuna, in the past there were many sages who," vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ, "after surpassing three stages of existence, when they came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they were liberated." Vita-rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ. Now, what is this rāga? Rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ. Rāga means attachment, attachment. And vīta-rāga-bhaya. Bhaya means fear, and krodha means anger. So these three stages are there in our life.
+
:''advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam''
 +
:''ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca''
 +
:(Bs 5.33)
  
And what are these? Rāga, attachment. In the lowest stage of our life, when we do not know what I am, I consider this body myself. This deluded conception of life, that "I am this body," this is deluded conception. And when we have got too much attachment for this deluded conception of life, that is called rāga. Rāga. Mostly people, generally, they are acting in this material world with this conception of life, that "I am this material body." So they are working whole day and night for making a comfortable life of this material body. So they are called in the stage of rāga, attachment. Attachment.
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Kṛṣṇa is described as ''nava-yauvana''. Some of you must have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. He is always just like a boy of twenty years old, although He is the ''ādi-puruṣa''. ''Ādi-puruṣa'' means He is the original person of all emanations. He is the oldest. ''Advaitam acyutam anādim, ādyaṁ purāṇa-pu . . . purāṇa-puruṣam'' means the oldest. ''Purāṇa'' means old. ''Purāṇa-puruṣam''; still, ''nava-yauvanaṁ ca'', just like a young man of twenty years old, full energy, full youthfulness. This is the science of Kṛṣṇa.
  
And the next stage is bhaya. Bhaya. And what is that bhaya? Fear. Now, that... (aside:) Please don't talk. Bhaya means that... There are persons, transcendentalists, who are culturing transcendental knowledge, but they are very much afraid of conceiving that there is another world which is spiritual world, and that is also similar like this world, and the Personality of Godhead is there, and we have to go there, and we have to live as His servitor. So we carry the ideas of this world to that world. Therefore we are afraid. There are many transcendentalists who like the impersonal conception of the Supreme Truth. As soon as personal conception of the Supreme Truth is presented there, they are afraid of: "Oh, it is something material. It is not real." This is called bhaya. But actually it is not that.
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So simply by knowing this science of Kṛṣṇa, if we can get liberation from these material miseries of life, why should we not try for this? Let us try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a very nice subject matter and very easy. We are just trying to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't ask you to have some troublesome or laborsome gymnastic. No. You simply come and hear. And this hearing, it is followed by nice music and singing.
  
Actually this material world is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as the perverted reflection of the actual spiritual world. You will find in the Fifteenth Chapter that this material world is described as the obverted tree whose root is upwards and the branches are downwards. Have you have experience of this obverted tree whose root is upward and the branches and the leaves are downwards? Have you seen any tree like that? You have seen it, but you have forgotten. You have seen... When you see a tree on the bank of a river or bank of a reservoir of water, you find the reflection of the tree, just the opposite number. So similarly, this world, in the Fifteenth Chapter it is described there, the obverted tree. That means the real tree is there. The real tree is there.
+
And beginning with music, ending with music, everyone will like it. And we have no means . . . of course, whatever means I have got, I am distributing little fruit. But the process is—Lord Caitanya, who introduced this process—after this termination of this performance of chanting and reciting, distribution of ''prasādam'', nice, palatable dishes for eating.
  
Just like the example is given... I have several times..., that the impersonalists, they describe this world as false, as false. But simply describing this world as false is not sufficient. What is the reality we must know. The... Generally the example is cited that in the darkness when you see a curling rope, you misunderstand it that it is a snake. But actually it is not the snake. Now, this conception of a snake comes wherefrom? Unless there is a real snake, how you can see that it is a snake? That rope is false. That's all right. That rope is not snake, but there is real snake. Otherwise, how you get the conception of the snake? Just try to follow it. Without having the real snake, you cannot get this conception of snake.
+
So ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says, ''su-sukham'': "This is the process is very palatable and very pleasurable and very easy." And still, you get Kṛṣṇa. Although it is the easiest and most pleasurable and happy mood, still you get the Supreme. And you don't require any qualification. It doesn't require that you have to become a great, learned scholar. No. Simply by the gift of Kṛṣṇa you have got these two ears. If you simply give aural reception to this transcendental word, that is sufficient. It does not require any extraneous education, that you have to pass M.A. examination or D.A.C. or Ph.D. or something like that. No. So why should you not take advantage?
  
Similarly, we say that this world is false, or shadow. The shadow, without being the reality, how there can be possibility of shadow? If there is no reality of my hand, how the shadow of the hand can be there? So this world is temporary shadow. That is accepted. But there is the real world which has no destruction. This world is destructive. It will be dissolved. Just like our body is temporary, but it will be dissolved. Anything material that has got a birth, a stay for some time, a byproduct, a growth, a dwindling, and then vanish. That is the nature, anything. Just like this body. It was born from the mother's womb at a certain time, and it is staying for some time. It is staying for some time, and the body has got some byproducts, like children. We have got some children, the byproducts. Then it is dwindling. Just like I am getting older. Anyone, everyone, we are getting older. And at the last, it will vanish. Similarly, the whole material world, it has a time of its appearance, it grows, it makes so many varieties of byproducts, it dwindles and again vanishes.
+
''Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ''. Kṛṣṇa says in ''Bhāgavata'': ''satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido, bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ'' ([[SB 3.25.25]]).
  
But Bhagavad-gītā gives you information, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ [[BG 8.20]] . Beyond this material world which is subjected to these rules of six changes, there is another world which is sanātana. Sanātana means which is eternal. So actually there is existence of an eternal nature, like this nature which you are experiencing. And that nature, transcendental nature... The whole Bhagavad-gītā scheme is to take you back to that transcendental nature. Because you are transcendental, you are eternal, you are blissful, you are full of knowledge... Now we are covered. Now we have to go back to that eternal world, which is full of knowledge, full of bliss. So we have to prepare in that way. That is the policy of the human life.
+
If we actually take advantage of association of realized person, and if we hear from them, then the result is that it becomes very pleasing to the heart and the ear. ''Satāṁ prasaṅgān'' . . . (indistinct) . . . ''asatām''. One must be realized soul in describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then the result will be that the audience will feel that it is very nice to hear, and it is appealing to the heart. ''Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa'' ([[SB 3.25.25]]). ''Hṛt'' means heart; ''karṇa'' means ear. ''Hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ'', very pleasing.
  
Kṛṣṇa says, vīta-rāga. Vīta-rāga. Vīta means one who has been able to give up this attachment. Rāga means the attachment of this material world. And bhaya, one who has developed this transcendental sense... The impersonalists, their philosophy is that they want to merge into the impersonal existence of the Absolute Truth. They are afraid of the life of variegatedness. Because they have got a very bitter experience of this life of variegatedness, therefore they want to make a negation of this variegatedness and they want to turn themselves into the impersonal feature. So these things are there. So vīta-rāga. So one has to give up this attachment and detachment also. Vīta-rāga-bhaya and krodha.
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Now, we have received this news, very pleasing. Now next duty? ''Taj-joṣaṇāt''. Now, if you little try to assimilate it. And what is that assimilation? ''Smaraṇam''. Simply by thinking, "Oh, this has been spoken." Try to argue whether it is true or not. So you have to think over. ''Satāṁ prasaṅgān, taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani''. And if you do that . . . suppose you hear something of the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', and it appeals to you, or even does not appeal to you. Just try to think over: "What ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says? How Swāmījī has discussed this matter?"
  
Krodha means there are other persons who are neither impersonalists nor personalists. They are what are called more or less atheists. Atheist means they don't believe in any transcendental nature. Even they do not believe in the existence of the soul. They simply concern themselves with this material body. Just like Buddha philosophy. Buddha philosophy does not accept the existence of the soul. Buddha philosophy says that this material body is a combination of matter. Now, as soon as the matter is dissolved, then the feelings of happiness and distress is gone. But according to Bhagavad-gītā, the existence of soul is accepted in the Vedic literature.
+
Apply your arguments. Apply your logic. Don't take it as a sentiment or as in a blind faith. You have got reason; you have got argument; you have got sense. Apply it and try to understand it. Neither it is bogus. It is scientific. Then you will feel . . . ''taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani śraddhā bhaktir ratir anukramiṣyati''. You will gradually develop your attachment for hearing it, and devotional service will be invoked in your heart, and then, gradually, you will make progress.
  
Just like after Lord Buddha, Śaṅkarācārya, Śaṅkarācārya came. He gave hint about the spiritual nature of the soul, and he said, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This matter is false and temporary, but spirit is eternal." And other ācāryas, just like Rāmānujācārya and Madhvācārya, they came after Śaṅkarācārya, and they established that in the spiritual world there is also life like this, but that is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge.
+
But one thing. It is stated in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'', once you begin, even one percent you can realize, that will never be lost. That will remain a permanent settlement. Now suppose if you are trying for B.A. examination, or you have passed your B.A. examination. Now, with the end of this body, that, your qualification as graduate of Columbia University or any university, is finished. Now your life begins in another body, and you have to acquire knowledge again to become qualified a graduate.
  
So here Kṛṣṇa also give us instruction that vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ [[BG 2.56]] . There are persons who are too much attached to these material activities. They are called rāga. They are in the atmosphere of rāga. And there are persons who are atmosphere of fear: "Oh, again we have got to..., a personal life?" They are afraid of personal life. They want to make impersonal everything. That is called bhaya. And the first, second... And the third is krodha. They do not believe in any philosophy. "Let us commit suicide. Let us annihilate all this material existence." So we have to surpass. We have to surpass these three stage of attachment and fearfulness and krodha, and anger. When he is disgusted with this life, he commits suicide. That is called krodha, by anger. So we have to surpass all these stages. So Lord Kṛṣṇa says, vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhāḥ: "After surpassing these three stages of life," vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ [[BG 2.56]] , "one who is constantly conscious of Me," man-mayā, and mām upāśritāḥ, "and accepting the shelter of My protection," mām upāśritāḥ, bahavo jñāna-tapasā, "there were many sages who by culture of knowledge and penance," bahavo jñāna pūtā, "purified by that process," mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ, "they attained My superior nature, My superior nature."
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But this knowledge is not like that. Because it is spiritual knowledge, absolute knowledge, it goes with you, your spirit. That you will find, explanation. And another chance is that one who tries to assimilate this knowledge, even if he is not, I mean to . . . perfect, so there is no harm. Because whatever he has learned, that remains an asset, and you get another chance of human body to begin from where you have ended in this life. ''Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate'' ([[BG 6.41 (1972)|BG 6.41]]).
  
Just like the same example, just like putting the iron rod in the fire, and the iron rod becomes hot, red hot, gets the nature of fire, similarly, if we constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, being transcendental to these stages of bhaya, fear, and attachment, and krodha, anger, if we put ourself, completely under Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it will be very easy to attain the superior nature of Kṛṣṇa. That is the formula given here, that superior, how to attain that superior nature. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ [[BG 4.10]] . Mām upāśritāḥ. That is the main thing. One has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante. This very thing, everywhere we will find, this Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa is stressing on His personal feature. Mām eva ye prapadyante: "Anyone who takes shelter of Me..." "Anyone who thinks of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ... So these things are there. Simply we have to take up this thing, Kṛṣṇa. Then everything, the whole solution is there. (aside:) Why these boys are disturbing? They are not sitting, and talking.
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You'll find in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. ''Śucīnām'' and ''śrīmatām''. ''Śucīnām'' means purified family. Just like in India we have got the ideal purified family: a ''brāhmin''. Of course, nowadays, due to material advance of civilization, everything is polluted, but according to . . . still there are some families very purified. If you go to their house, at once you will feel, "Oh, it is a place fully purified." So ''śucīnām''. ''Śucīnām'' means in the family of such purified ''brāhmin''. And ''śrīmatām''. ''Śrīmatām'' means in the family of rich men.
  
Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. Next verse is:
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Why these two chances are given? Because in the family of a pure cultural family, you get the chance of regenerating your lost spiritual consciousness which was unfinished in your last life. That you get chance. And in the rich man family you get chance because you haven't got to bother yourself how to maintain your body and soul together. Rich men get the opportunity that they haven't got to think over much about the maintenance of the body and soul together. Ordinary men, they have to seek how to earn the bread. Problem of bread is there. And for a rich man there is no such problem. He can advance in culture. He has the opportunity.
  
<div class="lec_verse">
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But unfortunately, a rich man's sons are misguided. They get some money without earning and they spend like anything for sense gratification. You see? But he should know, "Oh, I have got this opportunity by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Now let me peacefully advance myself in the science of Kṛṣṇa." This opportunity is offered by Kṛṣṇa, but we misuse.
ye yathā māṁ prapadyante<br />
 
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham<br />
 
mama vartmānuvartante<br />
 
manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ<br />
 
[[BG 4.11]] </div>
 
  
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Still, but we should not wait for the chance of another birth. We should take the opportunity in this birth. Just like Kṛṣṇa prescribes here that simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and His transcendental activities, one can get liberated. Why don't you do that? Why should you wait for another birth, either in the rich man's family or in the pure family of a ''brāhmin''? Because it is not exactly sure that because a person is born in the family of a pure ''brāhmin'', he is elevating spiritually. No. Sometimes we see that he is degrading because he is misusing or by bad association of the parents did not train him.
  
Now Kṛṣṇa says... There are three kinds of transcendentalists. What are they? The impersonalist and the localized yogi and the devotees. There are three kinds of transcendentalists. What are the impersonalists? Impersonalists means this jñānī, those who are trying to understand what is Brahman and try to negativating this material world, neti neti: "This is not Brahman. Brahman is separate from this matter." They are called jñānīs. And there are yogis. Yogi means those who are trying to focus all attention to the Supersoul which is within our heart. That is called yoga system. And yogi, jñānī, and bhakta, devotees. Those who are focusing all their concentration on the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa. So these three are classes of... They are all transcendentalists.
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So we should not miss this opportunity of human life, and follow this instruction that ''janma karma me divyaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ'' ([[BG 4.9 (1972)|BG 4.9]]). Anyone who simply understands the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes a liberated person. This opportunity we should take. And ''ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham'' ([[BG 4.11 (1972)|BG 4.11]]).
  
They are not materialists. Materialists, they are concerned with this matter only. They are very much attached to lord it over this material nature and enjoy life. That's all. That is the short description of the materialist. But the transcendentalists, they are above these attached people. They are detached, but they have got three conception of transcendental idea. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
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And we are already under the control of some leadership. That is a fact. Why should we not take exactly, directly, the leadership of Kṛṣṇa? This is the process. If you have got any doubt that, "Why should I take the leadership of Kṛṣṇa?" the answer is there in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. This is the real study of ''Bhagavad-gītā''.
  
<div class="lec_verse">
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In the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' the Lord says that, "Arjuna, you are My dear friend. Therefore, although I have explained all the different branches of, I mean to say, spiritual cultivation, but the most confidential thing just I am telling you because you are My very dear friend." ''Sarva-dharmān parityajya'''' ([[BG 18.66 (1972)|BG 18.66]]); "Just give up everything, and just be surrendered unto Me. I shall give you all protection." So instead of accepting so many infidel or imperfect leadership, let us accept the leadership of Kṛṣṇa and make our life perfect. That is the whole philosophy. Now, in the next ''śloka'' the Lord says:
vadanti tat tattva-vidas<br />
 
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam<br />
 
brahmeti paramātmeti<br />
 
bhagavān iti śabdyate<br />
 
[[SB 1.2.11]] </div>
 
  
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:''kāṅkṣantaḥ karmaṇāṁ siddhiṁ''
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:''yajanta iha devatāḥ''
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:''kṣipraṁ hi mānuṣe loke''
 +
:''siddhir bhavati karma-jā''
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:([[BG 4.12 (1972)|BG 4.12]])
  
Tattva, tattva, the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is nondual. And that Absolute Truth is experienced in three ways. What are they? Now, Brahman, the all-pervading, impersonal feature, Brahman. And brahmeti paramātmeti. Paramātmeti means the Supersoul. Brahmeti paramātmeti and bhagavān iti. Bhagavān iti means the Personality of Godhead. Now these three conception of life have been analyzed in various places, and I will give you a short description.
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Now, I accept some particular class of leader because I belong to that status of ideas. So therefore you know that in the Vedic literature there are names of many demigods. Sometimes the Hindus are criticized that, "Hindus have got many gods." But they are not, I mean to . . . the Supreme God. If somebody is a serious student of ''Upaniṣad'', they will find that the demigods described, they are all, I mean to say, servants of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa.
  
Just like the sun. You see the sun every morning. What do you see? You see the sunshine. One feature is the sunshine. Another feature is the sun disc and another feature is if you are able to go into the sun planet you see something else. That we have got no experience, but we can see that sunshine and the localized sun disc.
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But here it is said, ''kāṅkṣantaḥ karmaṇāṁ siddhim''. Sometimes we want something immediately by worshiping these demigod. Just like it is mentioned that if it wants . . . if one aims to . . . wants to be free from diseases, he has to worship the sun-god. If one has to become very beautiful or he wants a beautiful wife, then he has to worship Umā. Similarly, there are different gods' names in the Vedic literatures, and they become successful. That is not unreal. By worshiping those different demigods for particular purpose, they become successful. That is a fact.
  
But what is there within the sun planet, nobody has explained so far material science is concerned, but from Vedic literature we have got information of the sun planet also, that there is a supreme deity which is known as the sun-god, and all the inhabitants there, they have got their body of fire, and the whole planet is fiery. That is also material. There is no reason to disbelieve it because the whole material word is composed of five elements, that inferior nature: earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, ego, intelligence. So you will find different planets also. Some planet is predominated with earth; some planet is predominated with water; some planet with fire, just like this. So the sun planet is predominated with fire. Fire is also matter. It is also material.
+
But in another place you will find in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' that it is said, I mean to say, ''kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ'' ([[BG 7.20 (1972)|BG 7.20]]). ''Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ'': "Those who are misguided by material desires, they take the shelter of other demigods." One goes to the worship of demigods because one is persuaded for a particular purpose. Just like one who wants to be very healthy man or to be free from all diseases, he worships the sun-god. Or one who wants to be . . . to have a beautiful wife or becomes himself a very beautiful human, he worships the devī Umā.
  
So as we have got experience, we can take experience from what we see daily, so as we have got three different vision of the sun, although the sunshine is spread all over the universe, you cannot accept the sunshine as important than the sun disc, localized. Which one is important? The sunshine is important or the localized disc, the planet, is important? The localized planet is important.
+
But one who is convinced, one who is convinced that, "I am not this body . . ." This is the thing, "I am not this body." The material wants means bodily demands. Then he does not go to all these demigods. He takes at once shelter of the Supreme Lord. ''Jñānavān''. ''Jñānavān'', who has understood the problems of life. ''Jñānavān''. ''Jñāna'' means who has understood the spiritual nature of the living being, he is called ''jñānavān''. So ''jñānavān''. ''Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate'' ([[BG 7.19 (1972)|BG 7.19]]).
  
Similarly, the impersonal feature of Lord which is known as Brahman, that is not very much important. You will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of the effulgence of Brahman." So this is one feature. But that is transcendental. When one thinks of Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth, that is also transcendental. When one thinks of the localized aspect of the Supreme Truth, that is also transcendental. And when one thinks of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that is also transcendental. So here it is stated,
+
One who has become really learned, even after many, many births, and knows that "I am not this body, I am spirit. My nature, my advancement, my happiness is depending on the advancement of my spiritual life," such a person only can take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and perfectly.
  
<div class="lec_verse">
+
Others, of course, as it is said, that those who are distressed or those who are in need of some wealth, they also goes to worship Kṛṣṇa, but for some temporary relief. But the benefit is that even such persons go to Kṛṣṇa worship for some temporary relief, but the benefit is that because he has gone to Kṛṣṇa, therefore, at the ultimate end, he will be devoid of all these material desires and will absolutely take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. There are many instances of that type, of that type.
ye yathā māṁ prapadyante<br />
 
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham<br />
 
mama vartmānuvartante<br />
 
manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ<br />
 
[[BG 4.11]] </div>
 
  
 +
Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to worship Kṛṣṇa just to have the property of his father. That's a long story. The property of his father . . . the father has two wives, and Dhruva Mahārāja mother, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother was neglected by the king. So he was going to be bereft of the father's property. So he wanted father's property. He went to in the forest to worship Kṛṣṇa just to ask Him, "Give me my father's property." There was a desire. But, you will be glad to understand, when Dhruva Mahārāja, after finishing his ''tapasya'', or penance, when he saw Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa appeared before him as Viṣṇu: "My dear boy, now whatever you want you can ask. I shall give you," now, he says, "Oh, my Lord, I don't want anything anymore."
  
Anywhere, any, I mean to say, person who is interested in the transcendental feature of the Absolute Truth, they must be either these impersonalists or the localized or must be devotee of the Lord. So these three features are there, presented of Kṛṣṇa conception, and how they are conceived and what are the different results, we shall try to explain in the next meeting. Now you can put your questions. [break]
+
Nice . . . there is a verse, ''svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce'' ([[CC Madhya 22.42]]): "My dear Lord, I am so satisfied that I have no desire to ask You." Why? Now, ''sthānābhilāṣi tapasi sthito 'ham'': "I came to accept this severe type of penance just to acquire the land of my father, or just desiring the possession of a few acres of land or any . . . but I have seen You. Who are You?" ''Deva-munīndra-guhyam''; "Who is never seen even by the great demigods or great sages or great men by many years' penances. Therefore my profit is that I came to search out some particles of glass, broken glass, and I have got the diamonds. So what I have got to ask You? I am now satisfied."
  
They have to take shelter of the Vedas. Just like Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya is impersonalist, and we, the Vaiṣṇavas... There are two classes of philosopher in India. One is impersonalist and the other is personalist. So we, so far we are concerned, we are personalist, and Śaṅkarācārya is impersonalist. Now, although we are two classes, impersonalist and personalist, we take Veda as the medium of knowledge. We may give different interpretations. That is another thing. But either party of Śaṅkarācārya or the party of Vaiṣṇava and ācāryas, they take the Vedānta-sūtra, the Vedānta philosophy, as the medium.
+
So result is that even one is in need of money or he is in distress, as we'll find in the Seventh Chapter that, ''catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna'' ([[BG 7.16 (1972)|BG 7.16]]), so even if you have got some desire within yourself, so the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' says, in spite of having that desire, you can worship Kṛṣṇa and ask, so that in future your desires will be desireless. You will not ask anything. Because that is pure devotion. So we have to wait.
  
But Lord Buddha, although we accept him as the incarnation of God and he was born in India and he propagated his philosophy from India, but because he denied to accept the Vedic principle, therefore he is known as atheist, because he, Buddha, did not accept the Vedic principles. He denied. And there was reason why he did not. That is a secret thing. That secret—because his whole philosophy was to stop animal killing, animal killing. Now, in the Vedic scripture, you will find, animal sacrifice is recommended. So he wanted to preach, "Stop animal killing." Now, if there is evidence from the Vedas that animal can be killed under certain circumstances, then his whole preaching becomes topsy-turvied. So he was obliged to deny the authority of the Vedas. And because he did not accept the authority of the Vedas, the Vedantists and the followers of Vedas, they called the Buddhist philosophy as atheism. This is the explanation.
+
Just like ''jñānī''. ''Jñānī'', he does not desire anything to take in exchange, but he simply wants to know Kṛṣṇa, "What is my relation with Kṛṣṇa?" This is called ''jñānī''. He has no other desire. Therefore, ''eko bhaktiḥ viśiṣyate''. ''Jñānī'' has been eulogized. So even I am not ''jñānī'', even I am a needy person, if I take to Kṛṣṇa and ask Him, that process is also recommended, because ultimately, when I shall be purified, I shall know my real nature.
  
So one is accepted as atheist who does not believe in the tenets of the Vedas. That is the sum and substance of atheism. It may be a sound philosophy or whatever it may be, but atheism, one who does not believe in the authority of the Vedas, they are called atheist.
+
Then I shall say like Dhruva Mahārāja, ''svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce'': "My dear Lord, I am fully satisfied. I don't want anything." Because spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is so bright, so illuminated and so valuable that in the presence of such consciousness you will directly deny to have any valuable things of this material world.
  
Guest: What would you say is the completion of all design for matter or for human being, and particularly for human being and matter in general, the completion of all design?
+
So we have to attain to that state. Now, that is the real aim of life, and Lord Kṛṣṇa personally is teaching in the ''Bhagavad-gītā''. Why should we not take advantage of this? We should not refuse. If we refuse . . . we can refuse, because we are individual souls with independence. If you like, you can refuse. But we should not refuse. Here Kṛṣṇa says that "Those who does not come to My leadership, but he goes indirectly to other leaders . . ."
  
Prabhupāda: Matter?
+
We worship leadership—why? Because we want something from that leadership. Just like in our India during the, I mean the, Independence movement, so many people took part in the Congress movement, and later on, they became all ministers and high official, although they had no position in India's past life.
  
Guest: I said, what is the completion of all becoming, final goal, for a human being and for matter in general?
+
So it is possible that if we worship other demigods, we can get some temporary relief from our distress. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa, then the relief is permanent, and ''tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti'', we can give up this body and go directly to the spiritual kingdom to be associated with Kṛṣṇa.
  
Prabhupāda: Yes.
+
Now, here Kṛṣṇa says, ''kāṅkṣantaḥ karmaṇāṁ siddhiṁ yajanta iha'': "People are deluded for temporary relief, and therefore they go to worship demigods." They get some immediate relief. That is their profit. But ''kṣipraṁ . . . kṣipraṁ hi mānuṣe loke siddhir bhavati karma-jā''. If you want some temporary relief, then you can worship this or that. But if you want really the ultimate relief . . . and that is the goal of human life, ultimate. Everyone is trying to get out of miseries. The whole struggle, either in the material field or in the spiritual field, the whole struggle is to get out of some miseries.
  
Guest: And what happens to matter when it, say, part of it that is, let us say, spiritual attains the realization of...?
+
So perfect man or a very intelligent man, he should try to have the highest benefit of this life, and that is surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa. That is surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa. If we do that, then we are both materially and spiritually benefited. You will find in the later ''śloka'' that ''teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam'' ([[BG 10.10 (1972)|BG 1.10]]). The exact word, I forget now. It is said that "Those who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness," Kṛṣṇa says: "I supply them all that he needs. He hasn't got to ask anybody." He, Kṛṣṇa knows.
  
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in the Seventh Chapter. Matter is described as the lower nature of the Supreme Lord, and the spirit soul or the living entities, they are called the higher nature. Now, my present position is that I belong to the higher nature. Now, I am entrapped with the lower nature. So whole mission of my life should be get out of the lower nature and be installed again in my higher nature. That is the whole philosophy.
+
Just like the father knows what is the necessity of his child who is depending fully on the father. The father may neglect of the grown-up children who is looking after his own business, but the child who is completely dependent on father and mother, the father-mother takes care.
  
Guest (2): Does the higher nature include anything outside of you? That is, any communication of your fellow man, helping him in some way, that is, perhaps some way alleviating his material suffering. If he is suffering materially, is there anything that Kṛṣṇa... In my readings of the Bhagavad-gītā I haven't seen where Kṛṣṇa deals with the social aspect of man, helping the man who is starving, say, to overcome his suffering or providing his material needs. Rather, the emphasis is on away from the material.
+
Similarly, ''Bhagavad-gītā'', Kṛṣṇa says, ''yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham'' ([[BG 9.22 (1972)|BG 9.22]]). Anyone who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any consideration, then everything is taken care by Kṛṣṇa. This assurance is given. But if you don't believe in that assurance, if you don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, that is a different thing. But so far ''Bhagavad-gītā'' is concerned, if we become fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our ultimate solution of all problems will be solved. That is a fact.
  
Prabhupāda: This is material nature, of course, but one thing is that if you want to help a person, your aim should be to help a person for the ultimate goal. Just like I will give you an example that a physician treating a patient, he is also engaged in giving some assistance to the suffering man. Now, he treats the root of the disease. Now, the patient says, "Doctor, I have got very much headache today." Doctor knows: "Yes. All right. I shall see." He says, "I have got a great pain in here." Now, the doctor sees that these are the symptoms of his main disease. (end)
+
Now if you have got any question, you can ask.
  
{{BGL_Footer|{{PAGENAME}}}}
+
(break) . . . atomic, atom consistency of matter, have you got experience?
 +
 
 +
Guest (1): Not experience.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: No, at least you have heard that there is atom.
 +
 
 +
Guest (1): Yes.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: As in the matter there is atom, similarly, spirit there is atom. Simply . . . now, both these, beginning from the supreme down to the atom, this is, they are expansion of different energy of Kṛṣṇa—either this material atom or the spiritual atom. Now, we are spiritual atom. We living entities, we are spiritual atoms, and by material atomic combination we have developed this body, although this material body is foreign to me.
 +
 
 +
Similarly, we can develop our spiritual body also in the spiritual world. Is it clear? Just like in the material world, in combination with matter we have developed this material body. Do you believe in this, that "I am spiritual atom, and I have developed this material body on the basis of spiritual atom?" It is a fact. It is a fact.
 +
 
 +
Just like in the mother's womb when the spiritual atom takes place, then it grows; it forms the material body. Without that spiritual atom, there cannot be any growth of body. Simply sex intercourse does not give guarantee of pregnancy. Unless that spiritual atom is there, the body does not grow. That is . . . we get information from authoritative ''śāstra''.
 +
 
 +
So the whole material world is also grown up upon the spiritual existence. And our whole problem is that instead of having this material body, we have to get our spiritual body. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious . . . that is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti''.
 +
 
 +
Now, one who goes to Kṛṣṇa, do you mean to say: "One who goes to Kṛṣṇa vacant"? No. He goes to Kṛṣṇa with a body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has got body, so you also go before Him . . . just like you come to me with a body, I go to you with a body. You are a spiritual atom; I am also spiritual atom. Now I have developed this body; you have developed this body. Our meeting is between these two bodies. Similarly, when you go to Kṛṣṇa, ''mad dhāma'', or Kṛṣṇa's ''dhāma'', His abode, we go there with spiritual body.
 +
 
 +
Yes?
 +
 
 +
Devotee: Does the spiritual world contain spatial relationships?
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Huh?
 +
 
 +
Devotee: Are things bounded by space in the spiritual world? In other words, is there spatial . . .
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is only spiritual. As you have got a material space, similarly, there is spiritual space. As you have got material body, similarly, you have got spiritual body.
 +
 
 +
Janis: What is the difference between spiritual body and spiritual atoms?
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Yes. Matter is not eternal, and spirit is eternal. Matter is full of ignorance, and spirit is full of knowledge. Matter is full of unpleasantness, and spirit is full of pleasure, ''sac-cid-ānanda''. That is the difference between matter and spirit.
 +
 
 +
Janis: And what is the difference between spiritual atom and spiritual body? Or are they the same thing?
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: No. Spiritual atom . . . just like from the spiritual body you have developed this material body, similarly, from the spiritual atom you can develop your spiritual body. ''Tyaktvā deham''. ''Tyaktvā deham'' means that giving up this material body, he develops this spiritual body and then goes to the kingdom of God, or Kṛṣṇa. ''Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti''. So when he goes to Kṛṣṇa, he goes in spiritual body. So there is potency of every living being. Just like he has got the potency of developing this material body, similarly, he has got the potency of developing spiritual body. Is it any difficulty to understand? It is clear.
 +
 
 +
So our problem is that we are suffering all kinds of miseries on account of this material body. Now, our business should be that we shall be cultured in Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that in next life will be my spiritual body. Then the solution of all problems solved. And so long we shall get material body repeatedly—just like we give up this dress and take another dress, similarly, we shall continue—then the four kinds of miseries, ''janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi'' ([[BG 13.8-12 (1972)|BG 13.9]]), or at least these four kinds of miseries—the miseries of birth, the miseries of death and the miseries of old age and miseries of diseases—we have to suffer.
 +
 
 +
 
 +
And as soon as you get spiritual body, all these miseries over. Because your body is no more subjected to birth and death, disease and old age. That life is eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful. That you can get simply by studying the nature of Kṛṣṇa, transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa.
 +
 
 +
So we are hankering after so many things. We are taking the leadership of this leader, that leader, that leader just to relieve, get relief from our temporary misery. Our duty should be just to get rid of all miseries by developing that spiritual body. That should be the aim of life. And that is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
 +
 
 +
Any other question? Oh. (break)
 +
 
 +
Guest (2): I mean if it passed on. It's just a dim thought, that's all.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Your question is whether miseries are eternal or not.
 +
 
 +
Guest (2): Eternal force.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: No. Miseries are not eternal. You can end your miseries. But if you want to end miseries materially, that is temporary. If you end your miseries spiritually, that is permanent. Just like in this world we are also trying to end our miseries. Suppose I am distressed or I am diseased. I go to hospital to end my miseries. But that misery are not permanent, er, that end of misery is not permanent—temporary. I can get again diseased. So long I have got this material body, that miseries can be repeated. That disease can be repeated. But if you get your spiritual body, then there is no more question of miseries.
 +
 
 +
Yes?
 +
 
 +
Devotee: Is a human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to birth as a demigod?
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Huh?
 +
 
 +
Devotee: Is the human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to the birth as a demigod?
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigod is also like you. Just like in the human society there are difference of bodies: One body is richer than the other body. One body is happier than the other body in material estimation. Similarly, in the higher planets there are different bodies who are happier than persons who are living in this material planet, I mean to . . . this earthly planet. It is estimated that their standard of living is higher.
 +
 
 +
Just like in this planet there are different nations and different people, and they have got different standard of living also. Your European and American people, your standard of living better than our Indian people, so far material consideration is there. You have got very nice toilet room, but the Indians go to the field to evacuate. You see? So in that way this country is advantageous.
 +
 
 +
So as you find even in this planet there are different species of life, different species of humankind, and they have got different standards of living, similarly, in the higher planet there are also living entities just like us. They are also like man, but their position is different. Their bodily constitution is different. Their living standard is different.
 +
 
 +
But in spite of different being, they are subjected to the material laws, the birth, death, old age and diseases. They are not free from that. Nobody is free. Within this universe, anyone, either human being or demigod or animal or anyone, they are subjected to these four principles of miseries: birth, death and old age and disease. So when you get out of this material world, then you get free from this. Their duration of life may be greater than your duration of life, but death is sure.
 +
 
 +
You cannot get rid of death in higher planets. Death is there, sure. The duration of life . . . just like a man's duration of life than the duration of the life of a dog is greater, but both are subjected to the principle of death. That one cannot avoid. But if you want to avoid the subjugation under death, then you have to develop your spiritual body, and that is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
 +
 
 +
Any other question? Yes?
 +
 
 +
Woman: Are there individuals in these bodies?
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Eh?
 +
 
 +
Woman: Are there individuals in these bodies? . . . (indistinct)
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: You are individual spirit. You are individual spirit. Are you not? Don't you feel it? Don't you feel your individuality?
 +
 
 +
Woman: Yes, but if there is one . . . (indistinct) . . . be eternally one.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Yes. You become one in the quality of spirit. Do you follow?
 +
 
 +
Woman: No, I don't understand that I have got a spiritual body, really.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Oh, then . . . (chuckles). That you take information from ''Bhagavad-gītā''. There is spiritual body. And why it is difficult to understand? You can understand it that your materially body has developed from that atomic existence of spirit. You can understand that?
 +
 
 +
Woman: Yes.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Similarly, from that atomic spiritual existence, you can develop your spiritual body also. What is the difficulty? It is the same process. As you have developed your material body, similarly, you can develop your spiritual body. What is the difficulty in understanding it?
 +
 
 +
Woman: But eventually don't we all merge in one spirit.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: You are merged in matter; still, you have got your individual existence. What is your body? This is matter. Is it not? Then are you not merged in matter? Then still you have got your individuality existence. Don't you agree? Similarly, I may merge in the spiritual existence, but still, my individuality will be there. You are merged already in this matter.
 +
 
 +
Just like when you leave this body, your body will be transformed into earth. That means it is already merged. Still, you have got separate existence. And what is that separate existence? Due to that spirit. So even in the matter, if the spirit can maintain separate existence, don't you think in spirit it cannot maintain its separate existence?
 +
 
 +
Merging means just like aeroplane. Aeroplane is flying in the air, in the sky. When it goes too far, it becomes too small, you say, "It has merged into the sky." But it has got, even in that position, it has got his . . . it's separate existence. Just like a bird, a parrot, enters a tree. The tree is also green, and the bird is also green. When it enters the tree, you see no separate existence of the bird, but it has got a separate existence. Similarly, either you are in material existence or in spiritual existence, you are already merged, but you have got your separate existence. Is it clear?
 +
 
 +
Woman: Mm-hmm.
 +
 
 +
Prabhupāda: Thank you. Now let us have ''kīrtana''. (end)

Latest revision as of 17:14, 18 September 2020

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



660725BG.NY - July 25, 1966



Prabhupāda:

ye yathā māṁ prapadyante
tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
mama vartmānuvartante
manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ
(BG 4.11)

This śloka, this verse, we discussed last Friday evening, and I tried to explain the supreme leadership of the Supreme Lord. By nature we are destined to follow a leadership. Nobody is independent. Even in the animal society, the animals, they have also got a group, and there is leader of the group. Perhaps you know it. So in every group . . . we are trying to make some group according to the similarity of thoughts and propensities. There are association, you know, various association: mercantile association, bankers' association, lawyers' association, and there is a leader. That is the nature's way.

Now, the supreme leader is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. That we do not know. Supreme leader, the leadership is accepted, but we do not know that the supreme leader is the Supreme Lord, or Kṛṣṇa. So that is informed in the Vedic literature, and in the Bhagavad-gītā also, the same thing is confirmed that, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante: "Now, everyone is under My leadership. Everyone. There is no exception." Especially He mentions the manuṣya. Manuṣya means the human being.

The human being especially mentioned here, because amongst all the human beings in this lower status of our existence, the human being is considered the highest perfectional stage of living condition. And especially human being has the prerogative to understand the supreme leadership of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The animals cannot understand it or the persons who are in the animal nature.

Just like you will find in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord says:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

"Those who are always engaged in mischievous activities, those who are fools, those who are lowest of the mankind and those whose knowledge has been deluded by the external energy, they do not make their surrender unto the Supreme Lord." But there are other persons, who are virtuous. They are considered that ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī ca bharatarṣabha (BG 7.16).

There are other persons who are distressed and in need of some wealth or inquisitive or really research worker in the field of understanding what is the Absolute Truth. And this morning we were discussing in the morning class that the person who are research scholar in the matter of understanding the nature of Kṛṣṇa, transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he is called jñānī, or philosopher, and he is accepted, with bhakti, with devotional service, he is accepted as special for the attention of the Supreme Lord.

Now, everyone . . . therefore everyone is following the leadership or the representative of the leadership. Now you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, when there is some specific qualification of a person, just like political leader or some spiritual leader . . . leader there must be. So suppose a political leader or religious leader is there, and thousands of people are following him. So that is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, that they are invested with certain power of Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ mama tejo 'ṁśa-sambhavam (BG 10.41).

So everyone is following directly or indirectly the supreme leadership of Kṛṣṇa. And the perfectional stage of accepting that leadership is when we accept Śrī Kṛṣṇa as our direct leader.

We are going to that path gradually, going to that path gradually, but in the middle we are hampered, because there is want of sufficient knowledge. When sufficient knowledge is there . . . you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). "After many, many births, when one is developed in his real consciousness, he can understand." What? What he understand? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "That Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. He is all in all. So I have to surrender unto Him."

That is the perfection of knowledge. This stage one has to reach. Never mind whether he is following a principle of philosophical research, whether he is following the yogic principle or whether he is following philanthropic work or political leadership or . . . so many things are going on, but the whole thing is targeted toward Kṛṣṇa. How it is targeted? That is explained. I shall try to explain.

Now, the whole material world is working under two energies: the lower energy and the higher energy. And the both of the energies, they have got different dimensions. Just like in this atomic age, you know, the material energy ends in the atomic portion: atom, paramāṇu. Similarly, this is . . . this material energy is called lower energy, and there is another energy, which is called spiritual energy. So both the energies, they are emanating from the Supreme Lord. In the Vedānta-sūtra also it is confirmed, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1): "All energies, they are coming, emanating, from the Supreme." In the Bhagavad-gītā also you will find the same thing confirmed. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). "I am the fountainhead," Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa says. "I am the fountainhead of everything."

So now to understand how everything is He, so two energies are working in this world in our experience. One is superior energy, or the higher energy, and the other is the inferior energy. The inferior energy is matter, and the superior or the higher energy is the spirit soul.

So as we find . . . you have got now . . . we have no experience. Scientific advancement of knowledge, so far we have in this material world, that is bounded within the area of material energy. They have not succeeded in finding out the spiritual energy. Otherwise they would have given life to the dead man. That has not been possible. Suppose a man is dead. What is that death? Death means separation of two energies: the material energy and the spiritual energy. That is death. The supreme spiritual energy and the atomic part of it, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7).

Just you have experience in this atomic age the minute quantity of atomic material existence, similarly, there is spiritual atomic existence.

Now, this spiritual atomic existence . . . the other day I explained and several times that atom is also described in the Padma-Purāṇa, Vedic literature. And what is the form of that spiritual energy, I mean to say, atom, spiritual atom? It is ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair. You have got experience up to the upper portion of the hair. It is just a little point. Now divide it into ten thousand part, and that one part is yourself, spiritual atom. This is our position. And that spiritual energy is so powerful that we, from that one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair . . .

It is not manufactured. So far what I am speaking to you, it is from authentic śāstras. The original verse is that:

keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya
śatadhā kalpitasya ca
jīva-bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ
sa anantyāya kalpate
(Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 5.9)

The exact verse is, in Sanskrit, that jīva, the living entities, they are ananta. Ananta means there is no limit how many there are. Ananta, unlimited. Unlimited. And a small. Just like in the material world also, you will find unlimited atomic existence, similarly, in the spiritual also, there are unlimited spiritual atoms. And one of the atom is myself and yourself or the ant or the elephant. Everyone is containing that atomic portion of spiritual energy. And from that atomic spiritual energy develops this material body—from that spiritual.

The matter cannot develop. Matter cannot develop. That you have got experience. A dead body does not develop. A living body develops. A child, when it comes out of the mother's womb, if the child is dead, oh, there is no further development, however you can keep the child in a very antiseptic way preserved. No. There is no development. Therefore it is concluded that the supreme spirit, Kṛṣṇa, from Him everything has come out. Everything has come out. Any stage you take, that is Kṛṣṇa.

And whenever I surrender . . . because my position is to surrender. I am spiritual, that atom, however big body I can develop. I can develop the body like an elephant, but the elephant is conducted under the direction of a man. You know? Such a big animal is controlled by a small boy of human being. So everyone is under control. We cannot deny that. So we have to . . . we are under control of different dimension of that spiritual energy covered by material energy. But the real control is from Kṛṣṇa. That we have to understand, either we follow this path or that path.

Now, suppose there are impersonalist who believe in the ultimate, I mean to say, merging into the supreme effulgence, brahma-jyoti. And what is that brahma-jyoti? Brahma-jyoti is just the atomic spiritual combination of atomic spiritual portions. That is brahma-jyoti. Just like the sun ray. Those who are scientists, those who know what is the sun ray.

The sun ray is a small molecular, glazing atoms, the sun ray. You have got experience of sun ray, but what is the sun ray? It is not homogeneous. It is heterogeneous. When you can analyze the sun ray, you'll find small particles of molecules. Similarly, brahma-jyoti is also spiritual atoms combined together. Just like the sun rays, different material molecules combined together, similarly, brahma-jyoti is also like that.

Now, as in the sun rays there are different planets—they are also generated from the sun ray—similarly, from the brahma-jyoti there are different planets. But those planets we cannot see here. That is beyond this sky. So in that planets, and the spiritual planets, there are different forms of God, Kṛṣṇa. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā:

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs 5.33)

Just like Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself with these molecular atomic portions of these living entities, similarly, He has got many other expansions as Viṣṇu. So that is the nice subject matter.

(aside) Raymond, you can get there light.

So in every way this is a subject matter for studying, scrutinizingly studying, Kṛṣṇa science. Kṛṣṇa science is a great science. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has said just in the beginning of this chapter, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Yo vetti tattvataḥ. Anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa scientifically, what He is, how He is working, how His energies are acting . . . these things are to be known. And one who simply knows this science—what happens? Oh, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Simply by knowing this science he becomes liberated soul. He becomes liberated soul. And what is the position of liberated soul? Liberated soul, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. That person who is liberated simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he is liberated, and he at once transferred to the spiritual sky into that planet which I am describing, Vaikuṇṭha planet. There are innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, and each and every planet, Kṛṣṇa is there in different Nārāyaṇa form.

So this is the opportunity in the human life to understand this. We are submitting to different energies of Kṛṣṇa. But if we directly submit ourself to Kṛṣṇa, what He, Kṛṣṇa, what He is, that is not very difficult to know, because Kṛṣṇa comes in this material world and displays His real nature—anugrahāya manuṣyāṇām, in Bhāgavata—just to inform the human society that, "If you have no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, just see. I have incarnated. How I am doing, you can see. You can have."

Just like something extraordinary happening in India, and if there is some photograph, cinematograph, and you see in the picture by a scope, cinema, you see the actually, what is happening. But Kṛṣṇa's pastime is not like that. Just like originally, the incidence which is happening in India, you have got a photograph. You see in cinema. This cinema picture is a shadow of that actual picture. But when Kṛṣṇa comes, because He is absolute, the same picture which is in the spiritual world, the same picture is represented here. There is no difference.

advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam
ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca
(Bs 5.33)

Kṛṣṇa is described as nava-yauvana. Some of you must have seen the picture of Kṛṣṇa. He is always just like a boy of twenty years old, although He is the ādi-puruṣa. Ādi-puruṣa means He is the original person of all emanations. He is the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anādim, ādyaṁ purāṇa-pu . . . purāṇa-puruṣam means the oldest. Purāṇa means old. Purāṇa-puruṣam; still, nava-yauvanaṁ ca, just like a young man of twenty years old, full energy, full youthfulness. This is the science of Kṛṣṇa.

So simply by knowing this science of Kṛṣṇa, if we can get liberation from these material miseries of life, why should we not try for this? Let us try for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a very nice subject matter and very easy. We are just trying to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't ask you to have some troublesome or laborsome gymnastic. No. You simply come and hear. And this hearing, it is followed by nice music and singing.

And beginning with music, ending with music, everyone will like it. And we have no means . . . of course, whatever means I have got, I am distributing little fruit. But the process is—Lord Caitanya, who introduced this process—after this termination of this performance of chanting and reciting, distribution of prasādam, nice, palatable dishes for eating.

So Bhagavad-gītā says, su-sukham: "This is the process is very palatable and very pleasurable and very easy." And still, you get Kṛṣṇa. Although it is the easiest and most pleasurable and happy mood, still you get the Supreme. And you don't require any qualification. It doesn't require that you have to become a great, learned scholar. No. Simply by the gift of Kṛṣṇa you have got these two ears. If you simply give aural reception to this transcendental word, that is sufficient. It does not require any extraneous education, that you have to pass M.A. examination or D.A.C. or Ph.D. or something like that. No. So why should you not take advantage?

Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhāgavata: satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido, bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25).

If we actually take advantage of association of realized person, and if we hear from them, then the result is that it becomes very pleasing to the heart and the ear. Satāṁ prasaṅgān . . . (indistinct) . . . asatām. One must be realized soul in describing the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then the result will be that the audience will feel that it is very nice to hear, and it is appealing to the heart. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa (SB 3.25.25). Hṛt means heart; karṇa means ear. Hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ, very pleasing.

Now, we have received this news, very pleasing. Now next duty? Taj-joṣaṇāt. Now, if you little try to assimilate it. And what is that assimilation? Smaraṇam. Simply by thinking, "Oh, this has been spoken." Try to argue whether it is true or not. So you have to think over. Satāṁ prasaṅgān, taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani. And if you do that . . . suppose you hear something of the Bhagavad-gītā, and it appeals to you, or even does not appeal to you. Just try to think over: "What Bhagavad-gītā says? How Swāmījī has discussed this matter?"

Apply your arguments. Apply your logic. Don't take it as a sentiment or as in a blind faith. You have got reason; you have got argument; you have got sense. Apply it and try to understand it. Neither it is bogus. It is scientific. Then you will feel . . . taj-joṣaṇād āśv apavarga-vartmani śraddhā bhaktir ratir anukramiṣyati. You will gradually develop your attachment for hearing it, and devotional service will be invoked in your heart, and then, gradually, you will make progress.

But one thing. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, once you begin, even one percent you can realize, that will never be lost. That will remain a permanent settlement. Now suppose if you are trying for B.A. examination, or you have passed your B.A. examination. Now, with the end of this body, that, your qualification as graduate of Columbia University or any university, is finished. Now your life begins in another body, and you have to acquire knowledge again to become qualified a graduate.

But this knowledge is not like that. Because it is spiritual knowledge, absolute knowledge, it goes with you, your spirit. That you will find, explanation. And another chance is that one who tries to assimilate this knowledge, even if he is not, I mean to . . . perfect, so there is no harm. Because whatever he has learned, that remains an asset, and you get another chance of human body to begin from where you have ended in this life. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41).

You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā. Śucīnām and śrīmatām. Śucīnām means purified family. Just like in India we have got the ideal purified family: a brāhmin. Of course, nowadays, due to material advance of civilization, everything is polluted, but according to . . . still there are some families very purified. If you go to their house, at once you will feel, "Oh, it is a place fully purified." So śucīnām. Śucīnām means in the family of such purified brāhmin. And śrīmatām. Śrīmatām means in the family of rich men.

Why these two chances are given? Because in the family of a pure cultural family, you get the chance of regenerating your lost spiritual consciousness which was unfinished in your last life. That you get chance. And in the rich man family you get chance because you haven't got to bother yourself how to maintain your body and soul together. Rich men get the opportunity that they haven't got to think over much about the maintenance of the body and soul together. Ordinary men, they have to seek how to earn the bread. Problem of bread is there. And for a rich man there is no such problem. He can advance in culture. He has the opportunity.

But unfortunately, a rich man's sons are misguided. They get some money without earning and they spend like anything for sense gratification. You see? But he should know, "Oh, I have got this opportunity by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Now let me peacefully advance myself in the science of Kṛṣṇa." This opportunity is offered by Kṛṣṇa, but we misuse.

Still, but we should not wait for the chance of another birth. We should take the opportunity in this birth. Just like Kṛṣṇa prescribes here that simply by knowing the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa and His transcendental activities, one can get liberated. Why don't you do that? Why should you wait for another birth, either in the rich man's family or in the pure family of a brāhmin? Because it is not exactly sure that because a person is born in the family of a pure brāhmin, he is elevating spiritually. No. Sometimes we see that he is degrading because he is misusing or by bad association of the parents did not train him.

So we should not miss this opportunity of human life, and follow this instruction that janma karma me divyaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Anyone who simply understands the transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes a liberated person. This opportunity we should take. And ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11).

And we are already under the control of some leadership. That is a fact. Why should we not take exactly, directly, the leadership of Kṛṣṇa? This is the process. If you have got any doubt that, "Why should I take the leadership of Kṛṣṇa?" the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is the real study of Bhagavad-gītā.

In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says that, "Arjuna, you are My dear friend. Therefore, although I have explained all the different branches of, I mean to say, spiritual cultivation, but the most confidential thing just I am telling you because you are My very dear friend." Sarva-dharmān parityajya'' (BG 18.66); "Just give up everything, and just be surrendered unto Me. I shall give you all protection." So instead of accepting so many infidel or imperfect leadership, let us accept the leadership of Kṛṣṇa and make our life perfect. That is the whole philosophy. Now, in the next śloka the Lord says:

kāṅkṣantaḥ karmaṇāṁ siddhiṁ
yajanta iha devatāḥ
kṣipraṁ hi mānuṣe loke
siddhir bhavati karma-jā
(BG 4.12)

Now, I accept some particular class of leader because I belong to that status of ideas. So therefore you know that in the Vedic literature there are names of many demigods. Sometimes the Hindus are criticized that, "Hindus have got many gods." But they are not, I mean to . . . the Supreme God. If somebody is a serious student of Upaniṣad, they will find that the demigods described, they are all, I mean to say, servants of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa.

But here it is said, kāṅkṣantaḥ karmaṇāṁ siddhim. Sometimes we want something immediately by worshiping these demigod. Just like it is mentioned that if it wants . . . if one aims to . . . wants to be free from diseases, he has to worship the sun-god. If one has to become very beautiful or he wants a beautiful wife, then he has to worship Umā. Similarly, there are different gods' names in the Vedic literatures, and they become successful. That is not unreal. By worshiping those different demigods for particular purpose, they become successful. That is a fact.

But in another place you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā that it is said, I mean to say, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajanty anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ: "Those who are misguided by material desires, they take the shelter of other demigods." One goes to the worship of demigods because one is persuaded for a particular purpose. Just like one who wants to be very healthy man or to be free from all diseases, he worships the sun-god. Or one who wants to be . . . to have a beautiful wife or becomes himself a very beautiful human, he worships the devī Umā.

But one who is convinced, one who is convinced that, "I am not this body . . ." This is the thing, "I am not this body." The material wants means bodily demands. Then he does not go to all these demigods. He takes at once shelter of the Supreme Lord. Jñānavān. Jñānavān, who has understood the problems of life. Jñānavān. Jñāna means who has understood the spiritual nature of the living being, he is called jñānavān. So jñānavān. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

One who has become really learned, even after many, many births, and knows that "I am not this body, I am spirit. My nature, my advancement, my happiness is depending on the advancement of my spiritual life," such a person only can take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and perfectly.

Others, of course, as it is said, that those who are distressed or those who are in need of some wealth, they also goes to worship Kṛṣṇa, but for some temporary relief. But the benefit is that even such persons go to Kṛṣṇa worship for some temporary relief, but the benefit is that because he has gone to Kṛṣṇa, therefore, at the ultimate end, he will be devoid of all these material desires and will absolutely take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. There are many instances of that type, of that type.

Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he went to worship Kṛṣṇa just to have the property of his father. That's a long story. The property of his father . . . the father has two wives, and Dhruva Mahārāja mother, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother was neglected by the king. So he was going to be bereft of the father's property. So he wanted father's property. He went to in the forest to worship Kṛṣṇa just to ask Him, "Give me my father's property." There was a desire. But, you will be glad to understand, when Dhruva Mahārāja, after finishing his tapasya, or penance, when he saw Kṛṣṇa, when Kṛṣṇa appeared before him as Viṣṇu: "My dear boy, now whatever you want you can ask. I shall give you," now, he says, "Oh, my Lord, I don't want anything anymore."

Nice . . . there is a verse, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42): "My dear Lord, I am so satisfied that I have no desire to ask You." Why? Now, sthānābhilāṣi tapasi sthito 'ham: "I came to accept this severe type of penance just to acquire the land of my father, or just desiring the possession of a few acres of land or any . . . but I have seen You. Who are You?" Deva-munīndra-guhyam; "Who is never seen even by the great demigods or great sages or great men by many years' penances. Therefore my profit is that I came to search out some particles of glass, broken glass, and I have got the diamonds. So what I have got to ask You? I am now satisfied."

So result is that even one is in need of money or he is in distress, as we'll find in the Seventh Chapter that, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna (BG 7.16), so even if you have got some desire within yourself, so the Bhagavad-gītā says, in spite of having that desire, you can worship Kṛṣṇa and ask, so that in future your desires will be desireless. You will not ask anything. Because that is pure devotion. So we have to wait.

Just like jñānī. Jñānī, he does not desire anything to take in exchange, but he simply wants to know Kṛṣṇa, "What is my relation with Kṛṣṇa?" This is called jñānī. He has no other desire. Therefore, eko bhaktiḥ viśiṣyate. Jñānī has been eulogized. So even I am not jñānī, even I am a needy person, if I take to Kṛṣṇa and ask Him, that process is also recommended, because ultimately, when I shall be purified, I shall know my real nature.

Then I shall say like Dhruva Mahārāja, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "My dear Lord, I am fully satisfied. I don't want anything." Because spiritual consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is so bright, so illuminated and so valuable that in the presence of such consciousness you will directly deny to have any valuable things of this material world.

So we have to attain to that state. Now, that is the real aim of life, and Lord Kṛṣṇa personally is teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why should we not take advantage of this? We should not refuse. If we refuse . . . we can refuse, because we are individual souls with independence. If you like, you can refuse. But we should not refuse. Here Kṛṣṇa says that "Those who does not come to My leadership, but he goes indirectly to other leaders . . ."

We worship leadership—why? Because we want something from that leadership. Just like in our India during the, I mean the, Independence movement, so many people took part in the Congress movement, and later on, they became all ministers and high official, although they had no position in India's past life.

So it is possible that if we worship other demigods, we can get some temporary relief from our distress. But if you take to Kṛṣṇa, then the relief is permanent, and tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti, we can give up this body and go directly to the spiritual kingdom to be associated with Kṛṣṇa.

Now, here Kṛṣṇa says, kāṅkṣantaḥ karmaṇāṁ siddhiṁ yajanta iha: "People are deluded for temporary relief, and therefore they go to worship demigods." They get some immediate relief. That is their profit. But kṣipraṁ . . . kṣipraṁ hi mānuṣe loke siddhir bhavati karma-jā. If you want some temporary relief, then you can worship this or that. But if you want really the ultimate relief . . . and that is the goal of human life, ultimate. Everyone is trying to get out of miseries. The whole struggle, either in the material field or in the spiritual field, the whole struggle is to get out of some miseries.

So perfect man or a very intelligent man, he should try to have the highest benefit of this life, and that is surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa. That is surrendering unto Kṛṣṇa. If we do that, then we are both materially and spiritually benefited. You will find in the later śloka that teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 1.10). The exact word, I forget now. It is said that "Those who are engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness," Kṛṣṇa says: "I supply them all that he needs. He hasn't got to ask anybody." He, Kṛṣṇa knows.

Just like the father knows what is the necessity of his child who is depending fully on the father. The father may neglect of the grown-up children who is looking after his own business, but the child who is completely dependent on father and mother, the father-mother takes care.

Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Anyone who is fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any consideration, then everything is taken care by Kṛṣṇa. This assurance is given. But if you don't believe in that assurance, if you don't believe in Kṛṣṇa, that is a different thing. But so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, if we become fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our ultimate solution of all problems will be solved. That is a fact.

Now if you have got any question, you can ask.

(break) . . . atomic, atom consistency of matter, have you got experience?

Guest (1): Not experience.

Prabhupāda: No, at least you have heard that there is atom.

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: As in the matter there is atom, similarly, spirit there is atom. Simply . . . now, both these, beginning from the supreme down to the atom, this is, they are expansion of different energy of Kṛṣṇa—either this material atom or the spiritual atom. Now, we are spiritual atom. We living entities, we are spiritual atoms, and by material atomic combination we have developed this body, although this material body is foreign to me.

Similarly, we can develop our spiritual body also in the spiritual world. Is it clear? Just like in the material world, in combination with matter we have developed this material body. Do you believe in this, that "I am spiritual atom, and I have developed this material body on the basis of spiritual atom?" It is a fact. It is a fact.

Just like in the mother's womb when the spiritual atom takes place, then it grows; it forms the material body. Without that spiritual atom, there cannot be any growth of body. Simply sex intercourse does not give guarantee of pregnancy. Unless that spiritual atom is there, the body does not grow. That is . . . we get information from authoritative śāstra.

So the whole material world is also grown up upon the spiritual existence. And our whole problem is that instead of having this material body, we have to get our spiritual body. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious . . . that is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti.

Now, one who goes to Kṛṣṇa, do you mean to say: "One who goes to Kṛṣṇa vacant"? No. He goes to Kṛṣṇa with a body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has got body, so you also go before Him . . . just like you come to me with a body, I go to you with a body. You are a spiritual atom; I am also spiritual atom. Now I have developed this body; you have developed this body. Our meeting is between these two bodies. Similarly, when you go to Kṛṣṇa, mad dhāma, or Kṛṣṇa's dhāma, His abode, we go there with spiritual body.

Yes?

Devotee: Does the spiritual world contain spatial relationships?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Are things bounded by space in the spiritual world? In other words, is there spatial . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is only spiritual. As you have got a material space, similarly, there is spiritual space. As you have got material body, similarly, you have got spiritual body.

Janis: What is the difference between spiritual body and spiritual atoms?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Matter is not eternal, and spirit is eternal. Matter is full of ignorance, and spirit is full of knowledge. Matter is full of unpleasantness, and spirit is full of pleasure, sac-cid-ānanda. That is the difference between matter and spirit.

Janis: And what is the difference between spiritual atom and spiritual body? Or are they the same thing?

Prabhupāda: No. Spiritual atom . . . just like from the spiritual body you have developed this material body, similarly, from the spiritual atom you can develop your spiritual body. Tyaktvā deham. Tyaktvā deham means that giving up this material body, he develops this spiritual body and then goes to the kingdom of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. So when he goes to Kṛṣṇa, he goes in spiritual body. So there is potency of every living being. Just like he has got the potency of developing this material body, similarly, he has got the potency of developing spiritual body. Is it any difficulty to understand? It is clear.

So our problem is that we are suffering all kinds of miseries on account of this material body. Now, our business should be that we shall be cultured in Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that in next life will be my spiritual body. Then the solution of all problems solved. And so long we shall get material body repeatedly—just like we give up this dress and take another dress, similarly, we shall continue—then the four kinds of miseries, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9), or at least these four kinds of miseries—the miseries of birth, the miseries of death and the miseries of old age and miseries of diseases—we have to suffer.


And as soon as you get spiritual body, all these miseries over. Because your body is no more subjected to birth and death, disease and old age. That life is eternal, full of knowledge, and blissful. That you can get simply by studying the nature of Kṛṣṇa, transcendental nature of Kṛṣṇa.

So we are hankering after so many things. We are taking the leadership of this leader, that leader, that leader just to relieve, get relief from our temporary misery. Our duty should be just to get rid of all miseries by developing that spiritual body. That should be the aim of life. And that is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Any other question? Oh. (break)

Guest (2): I mean if it passed on. It's just a dim thought, that's all.

Prabhupāda: Your question is whether miseries are eternal or not.

Guest (2): Eternal force.

Prabhupāda: No. Miseries are not eternal. You can end your miseries. But if you want to end miseries materially, that is temporary. If you end your miseries spiritually, that is permanent. Just like in this world we are also trying to end our miseries. Suppose I am distressed or I am diseased. I go to hospital to end my miseries. But that misery are not permanent, er, that end of misery is not permanent—temporary. I can get again diseased. So long I have got this material body, that miseries can be repeated. That disease can be repeated. But if you get your spiritual body, then there is no more question of miseries.

Yes?

Devotee: Is a human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to birth as a demigod?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Is the human birth superior in terms of self-realization? Is it superior to the birth as a demigod?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Demigod is also like you. Just like in the human society there are difference of bodies: One body is richer than the other body. One body is happier than the other body in material estimation. Similarly, in the higher planets there are different bodies who are happier than persons who are living in this material planet, I mean to . . . this earthly planet. It is estimated that their standard of living is higher.

Just like in this planet there are different nations and different people, and they have got different standard of living also. Your European and American people, your standard of living better than our Indian people, so far material consideration is there. You have got very nice toilet room, but the Indians go to the field to evacuate. You see? So in that way this country is advantageous.

So as you find even in this planet there are different species of life, different species of humankind, and they have got different standards of living, similarly, in the higher planet there are also living entities just like us. They are also like man, but their position is different. Their bodily constitution is different. Their living standard is different.

But in spite of different being, they are subjected to the material laws, the birth, death, old age and diseases. They are not free from that. Nobody is free. Within this universe, anyone, either human being or demigod or animal or anyone, they are subjected to these four principles of miseries: birth, death and old age and disease. So when you get out of this material world, then you get free from this. Their duration of life may be greater than your duration of life, but death is sure.

You cannot get rid of death in higher planets. Death is there, sure. The duration of life . . . just like a man's duration of life than the duration of the life of a dog is greater, but both are subjected to the principle of death. That one cannot avoid. But if you want to avoid the subjugation under death, then you have to develop your spiritual body, and that is possible by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Any other question? Yes?

Woman: Are there individuals in these bodies?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Woman: Are there individuals in these bodies? . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You are individual spirit. You are individual spirit. Are you not? Don't you feel it? Don't you feel your individuality?

Woman: Yes, but if there is one . . . (indistinct) . . . be eternally one.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You become one in the quality of spirit. Do you follow?

Woman: No, I don't understand that I have got a spiritual body, really.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then . . . (chuckles). That you take information from Bhagavad-gītā. There is spiritual body. And why it is difficult to understand? You can understand it that your materially body has developed from that atomic existence of spirit. You can understand that?

Woman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, from that atomic spiritual existence, you can develop your spiritual body also. What is the difficulty? It is the same process. As you have developed your material body, similarly, you can develop your spiritual body. What is the difficulty in understanding it?

Woman: But eventually don't we all merge in one spirit.

Prabhupāda: You are merged in matter; still, you have got your individual existence. What is your body? This is matter. Is it not? Then are you not merged in matter? Then still you have got your individuality existence. Don't you agree? Similarly, I may merge in the spiritual existence, but still, my individuality will be there. You are merged already in this matter.

Just like when you leave this body, your body will be transformed into earth. That means it is already merged. Still, you have got separate existence. And what is that separate existence? Due to that spirit. So even in the matter, if the spirit can maintain separate existence, don't you think in spirit it cannot maintain its separate existence?

Merging means just like aeroplane. Aeroplane is flying in the air, in the sky. When it goes too far, it becomes too small, you say, "It has merged into the sky." But it has got, even in that position, it has got his . . . it's separate existence. Just like a bird, a parrot, enters a tree. The tree is also green, and the bird is also green. When it enters the tree, you see no separate existence of the bird, but it has got a separate existence. Similarly, either you are in material existence or in spiritual existence, you are already merged, but you have got your separate existence. Is it clear?

Woman: Mm-hmm.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Now let us have kīrtana. (end)