711128 - Parikrama on the Way to Gokula - Vrndavana

Morning Walks by Date, 1971

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

711128PK-VRNDAVAN - November 28, 1971 - 66:48 Minutes

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . take the karatāls. (kīrtana) Prabhupād ki Jai , Prabhupād ki Jai. (break) (on the walk)

Devotee: . . . is that behind us?

Prabhupāda: Nanda, Nanda Mahārāja left Gokula and came here because the demons were disturbing Kṛṣṇa. They decided to change.

(break) (kīrtana)

(break) Ye bade pagdi wale Nanda baba hai. Idhar me ye badi Yashoda maiya aur beech me Krishna, Baladeva dono bhaiya. Yashoda maiya ki taraf me chote bhai Krishna hai aur Nanda Baba ki taraf me bade bhai Balarama ji hai. Aur idhar ye kone me Sri Radharani aur idhar kone me Bhagavan ke sakha hai - Prem-sukha, Man-sukha. Nanda Baba, Yashoda maiya, Krishna-Baladeva dono bhaiya. (aside) Photo nahi lena bhaiya. Aur Radharani, Prem-sukha, Man-sukha. Pura kutumb sahit darshan. (This Deity with a big turban is of Nanda Mahārāja. On the other side, there is mother Yaśodā with Kṛṣṇa and Balarāmā in between. Kṛṣṇa is standing near mother Yaśodā and Balarāmā is beside Nanda Mahārāja. In this corner there is Rādhārāṇī while in that corner, two friends of Lord Kṛṣṇa are standing—Prem-sukha, Man-sukha. (aside) Please don't take any pictures. And Rādhārāṇī, Prem-sukha, Man-sukha . . . take darśana of the complete family.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did he say, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (to vrajavāsī) You explain in English. Explain in English.

Vrajavāsī: Nanda Mahārāja ki jaya! Yaśodā-māyi ki jai!

Prabhupāda: Explain in English!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Explain in English what he said.

Vrajavāsī: About the Deity?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the curtain opens?

Vrajavāsī: Ha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, Prabhupāda. What is the name of this temple? Nanda-grāma?

Prabhupāda: (to vrajavāsī) You cannot explain? You can explain what he has said?

Vrajavāsī: I will explain. When the curtain opens, I will explain.

Prabhupāda: Hah.

Vrajavāsī: Ao idhar baith jao. Baith jao. (Sit down all of you, please sit down.)

(curtain opens) (obeisances)

Vrajavāsī: The statue, this one, with the turban, that is the Deity of Nanda Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nanda Bābā.

Vrajavāsī: Nanda Bābā. And on this side, in yellow sārī, that is Yaśodā Mātā, you see? And in between Yaśodā Mātā and Nanda Bābā there are Kṛṣṇa and . . . (aside) That I will tell. Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma, both brothers. Kṛṣṇa is on the side of Yaśodā Mātā, and Balarāma is on the side of Nanda Bābā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Younger brother.

Vrajavāsī: And in that corner on the left-hand side you see Rādhārāṇī, there in that corner. And in the extreme right, there are these two, they are friends of Lord Kṛṣṇa—Prema-sukha and Man-sukha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa's childhood.

Vrajavāsī (2): Prema-sukha, Man-sukha ki jaya!

Prabhupāda: (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) You place one rupee here. Idhar phek de? (Shall I keep it there?)

Vrajavāsī (2): Nahi, yaha rakh dijiye. Bas. (No, keep it here. That's it.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now he gives prasāda?

Prabhupāda: Distribute this prasādam to all.

Prabhupāda: Kya chiz hai ye? (What is this?)

Vrajavāsī: Laddu-prasad. Desi ghee ka hai ye. Shudh ghee ka. (Laddu prasāda made with local ghee . . . pure ghee.)

Vrajavāsī (2): Ye Banke ji ka laddu prasad. (This is the laddu prasāda of the Lord.)

Prabhupāda: Lo . . . (Take it . . .) little. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So fortunate.

Vrajavāsī: Ye Maharaja ji ko dijiye. Maharaja ko dijiye. Ye bant lijiyega. (Please give it to Mahārāja, give it to Mahārāja. He will distribute it.) Put it there.

(devotees and vrajavāsī's talking in background)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm just taking a little? (break)

Prabhupāda: Darshan idhar ho gaya . . . (We have finished taking darśana here . . .)

(break) Everybody got prasāda?

(break)

Prabhupāda: . . . doing these temples.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: Ye kaun sa hai ap kuch bolta nahi. (You don't tell them which place this is.)

Vrajavāsī: Bol diya unko humne. (I have told them.)

Prabhupāda: Ye kaun sa, kya tha? (Which one was this?)

Vrajavāsī: Ye log . . . (These people . . .) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . and you can go there or come here also.

(break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dīnanātha and Pitāmbhara, they are still coming. Dīnanātha and Pitāmbhara.

(break)

Prabhupāda: They have not come? That will be late. Why they did not come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They did not ask my permission. They just went. One man got a shoe. He had to go back to get a shoe.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he'll go back there?

Devotee: No, he went up . . . (indistinct) (break) Not possible to see the Deity there.

Devotee: What time do they close the Deity?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Eleven.

Bus person: Dekhiye saheb, driver saheb, udhar se a rahe hai wo . . . budhe admi. (Look driver saheb, there he is . . . that old person.)

Person in crowd: Zara horn dijiye. (Blow the horn please.) (loud car horn sounding)

Bus person: Aiye saheb, aiye. (Please come Sir, please come.)

Prabhupāda: This old man should not be allowed. He cannot walk. (break)

Bus person: Jaldi aiye maharaja, oh o, ap idhar se aiye na. (Come fast Sir, oh you come from this side.)

Prabhupāda: Come on, come on. Now let us go.

Devotee: Chalo. (Let's move.)

Bus person: Chalo bhai, jaldi karo, gyarah baje darshan . . . (Move fast brother, we have to reach by 11.00)

Devotee: Deity closes in another ten minutes. (break)

Vrajavāsī: . . . do sau. (. . . two hundred.)

Dr. Kapoor: Do sau sidhi chadna hoga. (We have to climb two hundred stairs.) Shall we bring a chair for you?

Prabhupāda: Do sau sidhi! (Two hundred stairs?)

Vrajavāsī: Chair mang rahe hai. (He is asking for a chair.)

Vrajavāsī (2): Tanga ache, tanga. (There is a palanquin. Palanquin.)

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Vrajavāsī: Swamiji.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Vrajavāsī: Toli bhi milegi. (You can get a palanquin.)

Vrajavāsī (2): Milega, milega, Toli bhi milega. Toli wahi sidhi ke upar me milega. Doli mil jayega age, doli mil jayega. (You will get it, you will get it. It is available upstairs. A palanquin is available.)

Vrajavāsī: Palki hoga, Toli hoga, sab hoga. (A palanquin is there, everything is there.)

Śyāmasundara: What is the history of this place, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Rādhārāṇīs father's place.

Śyāmasundara: Ah.

(break) (kīrtana)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupada, have you ever gone to this temple?

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

(break)

Dr. Kapoor: And Her marriage was near about, Nanda-grāma.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

(break)

Vrajavāsī: Mai to bahut koshish ki yaha ane ki . . . (indistinct) . . . Maharaj ji keh rahe hai ki . . . (I tried a lot to come here . . . (indistinct) . . . Mahārāja was saying . . .)

Prabhupāda: Lijiye . . . (Take this . . .)

Vrajavāsī: Darshan kar lo ek baar. (Take darśana once.)

Prabhupāda: Abhi karenge. (Yes, I will take darśana right now.)

Vrajavāsī: Chalo bahut late . . . piche reh lenge hum log . . . (Let's move, we are quite late . . . we will fall behind everyone . . .)

Prabhupāda: Abhi ye . . . (Now this . . .) (break)

Prabhupāda: He will take us to . . . (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: Our guide. Where is our guide?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . (indistinct)

(break)

Prabhupāda: . . . not available, then you can go. I can sit down. My first time. Where is that guide? Where is that man?

Śyāmasundara: They say he went up to get the palanquin. He is coming down.

(break) (kīrtana)

Devotee: Okay. Wait a minute. Stop. Stop.

Prabhupāda: Make it here. I can walk.

Devotee: Okay. Stop here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Down. Down, down, down.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Jaya!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's this way, I think. It's a little wet here, Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya! (obeisances)

(background conversation between devotees) (kīrtana)

(break)

Prabhupāda: Idhar? Idhar, ha? (Here? Here, what?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right, just . . . (break) One rupee? One rupee.

Prabhupāda: Diya to abhi, diya. Sab diya, do teen rupaya diya. Ha, bhoga? (Just now I gave it. I have given two three rupees. Yes, bhoga?)

Devotee: Prasada de do. (Give some prasāda.) Prasāda. Let us go.

Prabhupāda: Now let us go.

Dr. Kapoor: The guide was telling Prabhupāda that we can go upstairs over there.

Prabhupāda: Upstairs me kya hai? (What is there upstairs?)

Dr. Kapoor: Nagar dekh sakte hai jake. (We can get a view of the city.)

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Dr. Kapoor: Nagar dekhenge. (We can get a view of the city.)

(break) (background conversation among devotees)

Prabhupāda: Sabko de dega. (We will give to everyone.)

Toli person: Kaha sabko dega? (How much will you give?)

Prabhupāda: Panch rupaya dega. (I will give five rupees.)

Toli person: Gyarah rupaya, baba. (Eleven rupees, baba.)

Dr. Kapoor: Panch, panch. (Five, five.)

Toli person: Gyarah. Gyarah rupaya dega. Bahut . . . mehnat lagti hai. (Eleven rupees, eleven rupees. It requires tremendous hard work.)

Dr. Kapoor: Nahi, nahi, apka jo iccha . . . (No, no, whatever you wish . . .)

Toli person: Baithiye, ladiye nahi ap. (Sit down, please don't quarrel.)

Toli person (2): Baithiye Maharaja ji. Maharaja sthan rakhiye. (Please sit down Mahārāja. Mahārāja, take your seat.) (indistinct background conversation among devotees) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . isme kitna diya jaye? (. . . how much should be given?)

Toli person: Ha isi daam ka . . . (Yes, the price . . . (aside) (indistinct Hindi) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Jaldi baat karo. (Tell us fast.)

Toli person: Yaha se niche utarne me sava do rupaya . . . (For descending from here, the charge is two rupees and a quarter . . .)

Prabhupāda: E to ye le aya, upar me to ye le aya. (He brought us, this man brought us upstairs.)

Toli person: Ha. (Yes.)

Prabhupāda: Sava do rupaya lagega khali nichle jane me? (You need two rupees and a quarter just for descending?)

Dr. Kapoor: Tum log to kuch nahi kiya na. Tum log to ab uthaya hai. (All of you did not do anything. You have come just now.)

Toli person: Ha. (Yes.)

Dr. Kapoor: To niche utarne me . . . (So for going downstairs . . .)

Toli person: To lagega nahi, niche utarne me . . . (Isn't this a fair price for descending? . . .)

Toli person (2): Bata deo . . . jhanjhat ko kaun le piche. Pura sava panch rupaya dena hai. (Please tell us beforehand . . . we don't want to continue this quarrel. Five rupees and a quarter will be needed in full.)

Devotee: Do rupaya milega, do rupaya. (You will get only two rupees, only two rupees.)

Toli person: . . . toli nahi jayega (. . . toli will not go.)

Dr. Kapoor: Hmm.

Toli person: Toli nahi jayega Maharaja. (Toli will not go Mahārāja.)

Dr. Kapoor: Toli ka paisa le raha hai tum, to uthaye kya hum dega? (You are taking the money, so are we going to lift the toli?)

Toli person: Nahi, char rupaya lega toli ka. (No, four rupees is the charge.)

Toli person (2): Teen rupaya . . . (indistinct) . . . sava panch rupaya . . . (Three rupees . . . (indistinct) . . . five rupees and a quarter . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ye kya mangta hai? (How much does he want actually?)

Dr. Kapoor: Teen char rupaya lega. (He will take at least three, four rupees.)

Devotee: All right, just let him work.

Devotee: . . . if they get hold of the tape recorder, they'll steal it. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . full house?

Vrajavāsī: Maharaja, ap kya puche? Maharaja, ap kya puche . . . (What did you ask Mahārāja? What did you ask Mahārāja . . .) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Dr. Kapoor: She's gone to Rādhā's village. That's why. But . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's closed.

Devotee: Open it up. (discussion about opening Deity doors)

Devotee: Kitna baje khulega? (At what time will it open?)

Devotee: Kitna baje khulega panditji? (At what time will it open panditji?)

Pandit: Char baje. (At 4 o'clock.)

Devotee (2): Too late.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe they won't open them.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Not very important. Jaya.

Pandit: Darshan nahi ho sakte. (Darśana is not possible.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nahi, nahi. (No, no.)

Pandit: . . . ho gaye. (. . . it's over.)

Prabhupāda: To thik hai. (That's okay.)

Pandit: Thik hai. (Okay.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, Gargamuni says there are very beautiful paintings inside. Do you want to see them? On the walls.

Prabhupāda: On the wall? All right. If you like, can see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No . . .

Prabhupāda: You can go and see. Come, I shall sit down. Go and see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, well if . . .

Dr. Kapoor: Four o'clock . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not four o'clock. There are some paintings he wants to see . . .

Dr. Kapoor: Oh yes, paintings.

Prabhupāda: All right, Śrīla dāsī. Parikramā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've come so far, we should see something. (background conversation)

Prabhupāda: Nice building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can I build such a building in New York?

Prabhupāda: You can build, but it will be very expensive.

Indian devotee: All stone, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, many of these things seem to be the way you describe for Māyāpura temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got our plan in this way. Inside, we have got our plan like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Twice as high, and three times wider.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah. This seems to be the kind of siding that you describe, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This grating.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (background conversation)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything is impermanent.

Devotee: That's what Prabhupāda says.

(various people describing what they are seeing in the paintings)

Prabhupāda: Ek rupaya de do. (Give one rupee.) (break) (Prabhupāda coughing) Can you give me a little water?

Devotee: Water.

Indian man: Pani, pani. (Water, water.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, ek glass zarurat nahi hai. Isi me kaam chal jayega. Bas, bas. Nahi, aur nahi chahiye. (No, one full glass of water is not needed. This is enough. That's fine, that's fine. No, no, it is not required.)

Devotee: Too much water here.

Devotee (2): Too much water.

Prabhupāda: Keep it.

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . Saraswati keep it.

(break)

Prabhupāda: Chalo. (Let's go.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chalo. (Let's go.)

(break) (kīrtana)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is beautiful here. Look at the paintings. Rādhārāṇī was born here?

Prabhupāda: Rādhārāṇī was born there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Kṛṣṇa was born in . . . He was raised in Nanda-grāma.

Prabhupāda: Gokula. We shall go tomorrow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa, He lived in Nanda-grāma?

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He lived in Nanda-grāma when He was young?

Prabhupāda: Yes, when there . . . when there was too much disturbance of the demons, Nanda Mahārāja's elder brother decided that, "We cannot live here. Let us leave this place." He has given that picture, and there cart, a ox, bullen . . . bullock cart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they moved to Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Prabhupāda? And Vasudeva took Kṛṣṇa across the Yamunā all the way up to this hill up here?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Devotee: Very long walk.

Prabhupāda: Not here, Kṛṣṇa . . . not on the other side.

Devotee: On the other hill.

Prabhupāda: Gokula. And when He was three, four years old, then He was brought to Nanda-grāma.

(break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . place to live is the highest spot. That is the nicest place?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world may be inundated. (break) Royal palaces were made on the hills. Not only . . .

(aside) Be careful; you are going . . .

(break) . . . Himalaya it is like this. Thousands of miles—stone, stone, stone. I have traveled from Jammu to Kashmir by bus. And hundreds and thousands of miles, only stone like this.

Devotee: They put. They put it there.

Prabhupāda: Don't go there. Why you are going by that path?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupada? Govardhana is stone?

Prabhupāda: Yes, one thousand stones. (break) To ride on this palanquin is very comfortable, (laughter) at the cost of others. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should construct one, Prabhupāda, for the remainder of the trip.

Prabhupāda: It is better than any other vehicle. Formerly, kings were being carried by palanquin. They did not like carriage. Carriage . . . Palanquin was transformed to carriage first in England—palanquin-carriage, drawn by horse. (break) How much fine work in marble stone.

Vrajavāsī: Ye Radharani ka sthan hai, janmasthan. (This is the place of Rādhārāṇī, the birthplace.)

Prabhupāda: This is the spot . . .

Devotee: This is the spot?

Prabhupāda: . . . where Rādhārāṇī was born.

Devotees: Oh, wow. Right there?

Prabhupāda: Rādhāṣṭamī. Fifteen days younger than Kṛṣṇa.

(break)

Vrajavāsī: . . . mangne wala nahi hai, hum to Sriji ka prajati hai. Hum unme se nahi hai . . . (I am not the kind of person who would beg. I am a descendant of Rādhārāṇī. I am not such a person . . .)

Prabhupāda: Mangne wala nahi hai! Khali apse mangta hai! Aur kami hoga. (I am not a beggar. But I am begging only from you. Their scarcity will increase even more.) (break) Cow dung, they use for fuel.

Devotee: They dry it for chips?

Prabhupāda: Yes . . . no, they dry it for using as fuel.

Devotee: Yes. It has a very, very nice fragrance.

Prabhupāda: Mmm. (break) Cow, anything of cow is useful: urine, dung, everything. Skin, hoof, horn, milk—everything.

(break) Small pieces.

(people asking for alms)

Prabhupāda: Vrajavasi ko de diya. (We have given to the vrajavāsīs.)

Person: Nahi, hum to niche hi hai, hum udhar nahi gaye. Hum to yahi baithne wala hai, vrajavasi hai. (No, I stay here at the foothill. I did not go there. I sit here only, vrajavāsī.)

Prabhupāda: O vrajavasi ko diya hai udhar. (I have given to the vrajavāsī there.)

Person: Nahi, yaha par nahi mila . . . (No, we have not got anything . . .)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, u to bola sabko de dega. (No, he said that he will give to everyone.)

Person: Nahi, u to upar se . . . u dusra admi hai. Mai dusra admi hu. Mai Vrishbhan ji wala hu . . . (No, he belongs to a different group. I am from a different group. I am from the dynasty of Vrishbhanu Mahārāja . . .)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, de diya ek admi ko. (No, we have given to one person.)

Person 2: Yaha pe sab Vrishbhan ji na . . . (In this place, Vrishbhanu . . .)

Person: Hum yaha ka vrajavasi . . . niche wala upar wala alag hai. (I am a vrajavāsī of this area . . . we are different from the ones living on the hill.)

Person 3: Hai to dijiye in vrajavasi ke liye. (If you have, then give something to the vrajavāsī.)

Sweeper: Jhaduwale ko milega . . . (Give something to the sweeper . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ei jhaduwale ko de do. Kuch de do jhaduwala . . . vrajavasi ko upar de diya. (Give something to the sweeper. We have given to the vrajavāsīs up there.)

Person 4: Accha ye puch rahe hai, ki bus tak chale jayenge ki yaha vishram karenge thodo. (So, I was asking, will you go to the bus or take a little rest here?)

Prabhupāda: Bus. (break) Inko do rupaya de do. (Give two rupees to him.)

Devotee: Take it. Take it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Kitna diya hai? (How much has been given?)

Person: Char rupaya. (Four rupees.)

Prabhupāda: Char rupaya diya hai. (We have given four rupees.)

Person: Ha, toli wale ko diya. (Yes, you have given to the toli person.)

Dr. Kapoor: Ha, ab kya chahiye, ek rupaya mil gaya . . . (Yes, what do you want, you have got one rupee . . .)

Person: Vrajavasi ko . . . (To the vrajavāsī . . .)

Dr. Kapoor: Aur kya chahiye . . . (What else do you want . . .) (break)

Person: . . . panda ki dakshina koi chuyegi nahi . . . (nobody is going to touch the priest's donation . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha . . . (Yes, yes . . .)

Person: Aur dekho samjho hum to apki ashirvad chahte hai. To sabko kalyan karo aur hum bhi isme . . . (And please understand, I just want your blessing. You are doing good to everyone, do some good to me also. (many people arguing to get alms))

Prabhupāda: . . . one rupee. Give me one rupee. (leaves in bus)

Devotee: Yes, it's true. Vṛndāvana is like everywhere, because it's been like this all my life, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

(break)

Prabhupāda: Nahi diya to hum kya . . . usko de diya . . . (If they have not given . . . we have given to him . . .) distribute one thousand rupees, still . . . this is the position of . . . (indistinct)

(break)

Dr. Kapoor: Prabhupāda, shall you take the prasādam before or after?

Prabhupāda: Admi ko bulao tumhara. (Ask your person to come.)

Person: Nahi, a gaya admi. (No, he has come.)6

Prabhupāda: Sab a gaya ki nahi? (Has everyone come?)

Person: Abhi kuch baki hai. (Some people are still to come.)

Prabhupāda: Kidhar gaya? (Where is he?)

Person: Bazar me hi hai. (He is in the market.)

Prabhupāda: Bazar me kya kar raha hai? (What is he doing in the market?)

Person: Hum to yaha pe yehi bhajan karte hai. (We stay here only.)

Devotee: There's that man.

Prabhupāda: Why they are there? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She's just getting on now, taking . . . I don't know why she took so long.

Prabhupāda: Why you are taking so much time? Sit down, sit down. Chalo. Aur jo reh gaya, reh gaya, rehne do. Chalo. (Let us go. If there is anyone left behind, let him remain here. Let us go.)

(bus leaves) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (in bus) That old man is there, that old man at the Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: Why that old man gets down? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The old man should stay here now.

Prabhupāda: No, he cannot. (break) . . . never come to these places, only for business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I see.

Prabhupāda: I know. Only bothering. Only bothering.

Devotee: In this way Vṛndāvana is everywhere. This has been like it all my life.

(break)

Prabhupāda: . . . Das Thakura has said dirgho yatra porishram, sokoli moner bhram . . . dirgho yatra . . . (Dāsa Ṭhākura has said that going on a long pilgrimage is simply laborious and illusory . . . long journey . . .) to go to the pilgrimage, that is simply laboring . . . (indistinct) . . . moner bhram., (mistake of the mind.) He did not like to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa at that place.

Devotee: Is Rādhākuṇḍa like this also? (break)

Prabhupāda: Adha ghonta agei jodi hoye to bhaloi hoye. (It would be good if it can be half an hour earlier.)

Bus person: Age Govardhan karaega, phir baad me Radhakund hai. (First, I will take you to Govardhan, then Rādhākuṇḍa.)

Prabhupāda: Pehle Govardhan chalo. (First take us to Govardhan.)

Bus person: Accha. Kintu snan karne ke liye Radhakund me rakha jaye ya Manasi Ganga me, Govardhan me? (Okay. For taking a bath, do you want to go to Rādhākuṇḍa or Mānasī Gangā at Govardhan?)

Prabhupāda: Govardhan me snan kar liya jaye. (A bath can be taken at Govardhan.)

Bus person: Jaisa apka agya ho ji. Aur Radhakund me boliye, Radhakund me snan ho jayega. (Okay, as you wish. And what about Rādhākuṇḍa? A bath can also be taken at Rādhākuṇḍa.)

Prabhupāda: Phir Radhakund pehle jane padhega. (Then we have to go to Rādhākuṇḍa first.)

Bus person: Wo chiz nahi, gadi jayega. Gadi jayega. Do teen minute ka rasta hai Govardhan se. (to driver) Pehle Radhakund chalo. (That's not the issue. The bus will go there. It is hardly a couple of minutes drive from Govardhana. (to driver) First take us to Rādhākuṇḍa.)

Śyāmasundara: Is that Govardhana Hill right there?

Devotee: No, that's part of it there.

Śyāmasundara: That's Govardhana Hill right there? It's so small! There's Govardhana Hill!

Devotee: The cows are still taking shelter. (break)

Prabhupāda: (to devotee) You are taking a bath?

Devotee: In the morning. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I took mine at three o'clock.

Devotee: Ap snan karenge Prabhupāda? (Will you take a bath Prabhupāda?)

Prabhupāda: Ha snan to karne padhega. Kaha snan karega? (Yes, I have to take a bath. Where should we take a bath?)

Bus Person: Manasi Ganga me bata rahe hai Maharaja. (Mahārāja wants to take bath in Mānasī Gangā.)

Devotee: Waha koi tank hai? Kya hai? (Is there some tank? What is there?)

Bus person: Ha. Jo bhi hai, wahi hai. (Yes. Whatever it will be, that's there only.)

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (break)

Prabhupāda: I may not take bath.

Devotee: I'll ask, Prabhupāda. (break)

Devotee: There shall be no inconvenience.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Person: Ap waha baithiye . . . (indistinct) . . . wahi pe . . . (Please sit down there . . . (indistinct) . . . from there . . .)

Person (2): Ab ye log sab dekh lenge, Manasi Ganga me snan kar lenge. (Now, they will take care of themselves and bathe in Mānasī Gangā.)

(break) (background discussion among devotees about bathing)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Said something about that we should take bath there. If we want to take bath. If we don't want to take bath, where shall we stay?

Prabhupāda: Somebody may remain here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll stay here.

Prabhupāda: He will stay, and others can see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've seen it before.

Prabhupāda: You have seen.

Devotee: I have seen also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is going . . . what is happening? It's a bathing ghat?

(more discussion among devotees) I think everyone's a bit tired.

Prabhupāda: Let them take rest,

Devotee: Take prasādam and rest.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: Is that Rādhākuṇḍa? No.

Prabhupāda: No, Rādhākuṇḍa is . . .

Devotee: Coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we can see the value of hearing about the holy places. Visually is nice, but hearing—perfect.

Prabhupāda: So, somebody may come with me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rohiṇī. Rohiṇī.

Prabhupāda: You take this water, let us go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll stay here.

(break) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: You give him money, one rupee.

Devotee: Someone have a rupee? Just one? One rupee here, and one here.

Prabhupāda: Give one rupee.

Devotee: One rupee. Viśāla?

Śyāmasundara: What are these places, Prabhupāda? What are these temples? Anything special? (break)

Person 1: Dus pundrah admi hai. (There are 15 to 16 men.)

Prabhupāda: Kaun pradhan hai? (Who is the chief?)

Person 1: Inko de do. Inko dene se sabko milega. (Give it to him. When you give it to him, everyone will get it.)

Prabhupāda: Give him four, five rupees.

Person 2: Sabko mil jayega Baba. (Everyone will get bābā.)

Person 3: Bahut brahmana hai. (There are many brahmins.)

Person 2: Ha, pundrah solah. (Yes, fifteen to sixteen.)

Person 4: Ten rupees thik hoye. (Ten rupees will be fine.)

Prabhupāda: Ek bat bologe to ek paisa bhi nahi denge. (If you demand once again, I will not give even a paisa.) (people bargaining)

Person 5: So, five rupees.

Person 3: Panch rupaye. (Yes, five rupees.)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . Jai! Haribol! (break)

Śyāmasundara: Viśāla? Five rupees. It's all right.

(break)

Person: . . . budha vrajavasi. (. . . old vrajavāsī.)

Prabhupāda: Paise de diye hum vrajavasi ko, jao. (I have given money to the vrajavāsīs, now go.)

Devotee: . . . I mean these kuṇḍas, Rādhākuṇḍa and Śyāmakuṇḍa. What is the history of this?

(break) (kīrtana) (break)

Śyāmasundara: . . . Śyāmakuṇḍa and Rādhākuṇḍa—what is that?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, They used to take bath.

Śyāmasundara: Ah.

Prabhupāda: And meet.

Śyāmasundara: Ah.

Devotee (2): This bathing ghat?

(break)

Devotee: . . . Śyāmakuṇḍa, together?

Prabhupāda: Because Rādhākuṇḍa was discovered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

(break)

Śyāmasundara: What is tomorrow morning's program? (background discussion among devotees about Ekādaśī and engagements)

(break)

Prabhupāda: . . . in remote place, long ago. So he asked me, "Swāmījī, why you selected Vṛndāvana as your headquarter?"

Dr. Kapoor: Hmm. (laughs) It should be Bombay or Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: No, he had some this bad experience of Vṛndāvana.

Dr. Kapoor: Ah. I see.

(break)

Prabhupāda: . . . living condition is not that. In Western country, especially America, is going on.

Dr. Kapoor: Yes. It is the most affluent country. The problem there now is affluence, not poverty.

Prabhupāda: There is no question. They don't know what to do with their money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Here there is no money. And there is so ample money, they do not know how to.

Dr. Kapoor: Affluence has its own problems. Perhaps more problems than poverty. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Rupaya jab zyada ho jata hai, sochta hai ki abhi to kaha se . . . kaise lagaya jaye. (When one has too much wealth, his concern becomes how to utilize it.)

Dr. Kapoor: Ha, kaise lagaya jaye? (Yes, how to utilize?) (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Wo bhi problem ho jata hai. (That also becomes a problem.)

Dr. Kapoor: Khas taur se yaha Hindustan me jo black money hota hai, wo to aur bhi problem hota hai. Kaha rakhe, kaise lagaye. (Especially in India, the issue of black money is a bigger problem. Where to keep, how to invest.) (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Black money to sab jagah hai. (Black money is present everywhere.) (break) (end)