721001 - Morning Walk - Los Angeles
Prabhupāda: Easygoing, that is actual real life. But that easygoing, you must come to that stage. If you come to a healthy stage, then when you eat you can digest nicely. But unhealthy stage, if you eat, how you will digest? Therefore, you have to cure your disease first of all. Then you eat, it will be digested. So in the material condition, nothing can be (indistinct). Therefore, how it is called conditioned life?
Jayatīrtha: We're bound up by so many conditions.
Prabhupāda: Ah, the conditions. So first of all you come out of the conditioned life. Just like we are trying to go to other planets with so many machines, so many mechanical arrangements. But if you have got spiritual body, you can go anywhere. Anywhere you can go. As Nārada Muni is going, traveling, any planet he likes he is going. That freedom is there, but that is in spiritual body. So you come to the spiritual body first, then you get all freedom. Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever you desire, you can get.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it might look like poison at the beginning, but at the end it will be nectar.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And so they..., they're reversing that, these people who...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is appearing as poison in the beginning, that will prove nectar at the end. [break] Even ordinary dealings. Just like I have given one watch to Śyāmasundara, that Omega. So I paid him... One hundred dollars has been spent to make it correct time, but it is not. Everyone, "Yes, I will make it repaired."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just repairing?
Prabhupāda: Repairing, four, five dollars, six dollars, and it is the same. And it is going on for the last one year.
Jayatīrtha: Like automobiles, automobiles are built to break down in four or five years at the most so that you'll have to go and buy a new one. That's the way they build them. They could make them stronger, stronger parts, stronger engines, but they don't, so that in four or five years they'll break down and you'll have to come back and buy a new one.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Even in ordinary dealings, people will cheat you. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Sanskrit) Everyone is cheating. Even in ordinary talking, they will tell so many lies. [break] They live nicely in fresh air, in open air, trees, and talking about their business and they are happy. They have no problems for eating, sleeping, mating, nothing. Everything is there. And we are claiming civilized. We are dealing with science to improve conditions, the rascals they are becoming more and more degraded. They have no science, they have no laboratory, they have no university. How they are living peacefully? So it is... If this life is better or this life of cheating and imperfectness, full of anxieties, this life is better. Which life is better?
Jayatīrtha: The animals, they are living by the arrangement of nature, they live according to their nature. Whereas the human beings...
Prabhupāda: They have no anxiety.
Jayatīrtha: ...perform prohibited activities and requirements and are living actually against their own nature. So the animal's life in that sense is better. At least they're not performing any sinful activities.
Prabhupāda: That I explained last time, that they are simply misusing their advancement, and they are satisfied when they have got a motorcar instead of bullock cart. That's all. They think, "Now I am advanced. We had bullock cart, now we have got motorcar with three hundred thousand parts. And every part will give me trouble as soon as it is (indistinct)," (chuckles) and that is advancement. As soon as one part is broken, the bullock cart is called for. They get a bullock cart to carry this motorcar. [break] Everyone is servant. Therefore, we teach our students to address "prabhu." "I am your servant, you are my master, prabhu. " That is the meaning of prabhu. Prabhu means master. And Prabhupāda means supreme master. That is the meaning.
Jayatīrtha: In this country there's a saying that everyone should be their own master. That's the philosophy. It's called individualism.
Prabhupāda: Own master... He does not know how to become own master. That he does not know. He speaks only. Now, what is their explanation to become own master? How they explain? Explain.
Jayatīrtha: The idea is that they want to be... to determine their own destiny.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: They want to determine their own destiny. They think if they work very hard, they'll be able to build up their environment... (noise of plane taking off).
Prabhupāda: This is not explanation. Own master means master of the senses.
Jayatīrtha: That they don't know.
Prabhupāda: Actually, everyone is servant of the senses at the present moment. So one has to become the master of the senses. That is called svāmī . Svāmī means master. Gosvāmī means master of the senses, the same thing. So everyone is servant of the senses. Everyone is acting being dictated by the senses. "Oh, it is very nice. Let me see." The eyes dictate what we see. What is time now?
Jayatīrtha: Five after seven.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: Five minutes after seven. [break]
(In car:)
Devotee (1): We were given a ride by some young people, a couple, and they were..., this was in Bakersfield, California. They said that a mahārāja of Guru Maharaj-ji, a mahātmā , they called him a mahātmā, a disciple follower of this fourteen-year-old so-called avatāra, is in Bakersfield, and he's staying there.
Prabhupāda: Where he is now?
Devotee (1): He's supposed to still be in Bakersfield after Guru Maharaj-ji, but this mahātmā is his follower. But they were very anxious to follow in his way because Guru Maharaj-ji is supposed to give direct perception of God. It's described that he will show you light.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (1): Yes. They said when you meet him, he can show you light. He's giving direct understanding of God in this way, this light. When I tried to ask them to understand some Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they simply refused to listen. They had no desire to hear about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They said, "What your spiritual master has to offer? What can you offer except just some scriptures?" They had no respect for the śāstra. So many young people are following this.
Jayatīrtha: Everyone wants instant realization.
Prabhupāda: Outlaws will say like that. "What education you have got? You have simply studied some lawbook." Outlaws will say like that. They will simply sell some book, "Now we are better that you. Without studying we have written."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's why they are called demons.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are called demons because... [break]
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) here?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, they're in Hollywood. I've never seen it.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: They have a place in Hollywood. I've never seen it, but I know people who have gone there. They become like a fad, like Maharishi. Two years ago he was very big, thousands of people were coming.
Prabhupāda: Who?
Jayatīrtha: This Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He was very big. He was in the newspapers and thousands of people came and paid thirty-five dollars, took initiation. But now you don't hear anything about him. So this man will come, make a big show, make some money, but in two years he'll just be a memory.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Why does he not come again? He has gone forever.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You have said that whenever there is Kṛṣṇa there will be success everywhere, all the time.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When there is Kṛṣṇa, there will be success everywhere.
Prabhupāda: That is the real success. (indistinct) There are so many places I see the sign for.
Jayatīrtha: Yes, they are one of the biggest corporations in the United States.
Prabhupāda: Accha?
Jayatīrtha: They're one of the biggest corporations in the United States. They have a..., at least one or two thousand of those, I think more than two thousand.
Devotee (1): They're all across the country. Kentucky Fried Chicken. Colonel Sanders.
Prabhupāda: Many thousands of chickens are being killed.
Jayatīrtha: Oh, millions of chickens.
Devotee (1): Millions every day.
Jayatīrtha: Just like this MacDonald's hamburger stands, they have a sign in front of their hamburger stands—they have also several thousand hamburger stands—the sign says, "Over ten billion hamburgers served." Their company has served ten billion hamburgers. [break] (Outside walking:)
Prabhupāda: America?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He told me he was very pleased to see Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he said he will start chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. He said he will go to Laguna Beach temple and he said he will try out chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayatīrtha: He told me that he could see that this knowledge wasn't theoretical, that it was realized knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: He told me that.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Jayatīrtha: That the knowledge that you have isn't theoretical but it's realized. He was very much impressed by that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He liked the prasādam so much that I made another plate and he finished that. Then after that he took the..., he finished the... What is that preparation from eggplant?
Devotee (2): The vegetable, he really liked that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he finished all plate, he liked so much. He said, "What is this?"
Prabhupāda: Gradually try to convince him and let him read our books.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are in the same floor. He works on the physics side, I am in chemistry side, but we are in the same floor, fourth floor of the building. No, he is on the third floor. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is saying that prove the existence of Kṛṣṇa by the science of physics, your knowledge. So he asked me, how am I going to prove the existence of Kṛṣṇa by chemistry?
Prabhupāda: That requires your knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he agreed the existence of supreme brain. We were talking about the talk between Einstein, Heisenberg, and some of the famous so-called physicists in nuclear field. So there was a conversation between Einstein and this Heisenberg, and Paul Durad(?), and (?), these are mostly (?) scientists, they are mostly Nobel Laureates. They were discussing, and without Einstein, these people they were talking, "Why Einstein is all the time talking about God?" Then this Heisenberg, he was not like Einstein. Einstein himself, he believed that there is a brain behind, supreme brain of God. And some of them, specifically this one, young Durad(?), he is also a scientist, he was very young, he was only twenty-five years old. So he said, "Einstein is all the time talking about God." This Durad(?) is completely opposite to this Einstein. So they were discussing about why Einstein is thinking about God all the time. And so... But ultimately they said, most of them agreed that there is a supreme being who is making all these physical laws, natural laws. It's already in the universe, but they are trying to discover it. So most of them agree except this Durad(?). So in the same line, (?) told me that yes, we agree that all the physical laws is already there. If somebody doesn't make it, then how can it exist? So he said he is thinking also in that line that there is someone, some brain, some supreme brain who is making all these physical laws. Otherwise there cannot be physical laws if there is not someone. He was saying that he started thinking in that line too.
Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) He makes everything, but He is not attached. [break]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...how do you know that guru is qualified, spiritual master is qualified? Then I said everything is written in the śāstras , so we have to follow according to the injunctions written in the śāstras . So all the qualifications of a pure devotee, of a bona fide guru, is written there. Just like you are a professor of physics in the university. Before you came, you had some qualification, degree of doctors. And then there is a committee to decide you whether you are qualified for the post. So it is selected by a committee of members and then they interview and then they find out your qualifications. If they find that you are qualified for the post, so you are selected as a professor. It's like that in the spiritual field also. There are revealed scriptures and there everything is written what will be the qualification of a guru and then how to choose a bona fide one. So everything is written, you should follow the injunctions of the revealed scriptures accordingly.
Prabhupāda: Committee is his spiritual master, he orders that you do this.
Jayatīrtha: The test is to see how much one is actually following the orders of his spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Listening to another so-called guru, everywhere we go, especially in Los Angeles, they always talk of other gurus. They always talk of spiritual knowledge, but they don't find out what the real test is.
Prabhupāda: What is your answer?
Rāmeśvara: So we show them our books and say that these are the real scriptures, real quality. The (indistinct) have to be the quality of the spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupāda: How do you explain? You are realized or not? (indistinct)
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, when you say that this is the knowledge that's been realized...
Prabhupāda: What is that? Why don't you explain? (indistinct) That means they do not know.
Devotee (2): One who is developing in spiritual life is becoming detached from material things. These persons who are following other gurus are attached to material things. They're still smoking, having sex life, drinking.
Jayatīrtha: It's difficult to (indistinct) detached to material things. One should be attached to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That attachment will become. That is the special (indistinct). You cannot be completely detached. If you be detachment from something, you must be attached to something. Otherwise you have no perception(?). So you should be detached from matter and attached to Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee (2): The devotee is always offering devotional service to the Supreme Personality.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (inaudible). Simply by knowledge... Knowledge you must have, but simply theoretical knowledge... Practical manifestation that he's a great devotee. Whenever there is any doubt or question, he will prove by the evidences of śāstra .
Jayatīrtha: ...was saying last night to our scientist friend, than Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. The spiritual master is simply repeating perfectly what Kṛṣṇa is saying. So if Kṛṣṇa is saying, "Surrender to Me," then the spiritual master is saying, "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: So in this way, the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa are in complete agreement.
Prabhupāda: Thus he becomes the (indistinct) of Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: The other teachers, they don't talk...
Prabhupāda: When is Ekādaśī?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ekādaśī?
Rāmeśvara: Tuesday is Ekādaśī.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tuesday, tomorrow?
Rāmeśvara: Our calendar says Tuesday. It's obvious when they talk about their teachers that they never talk of service to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, they have no realization. Our relationship is service. So one who is not engaged in the service of the Supreme, he has no realization. Whatever little realization he has got, that is called śānta-rasa.
Jayatīrtha: Dāsya realization is (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Dāsya-rasa . (indistinct) [break] ...practical devotee, he cannot become (indistinct).
Jayatīrtha : (indistinct) what you were speaking about yesterday, that if someone claims to be a teacher but he doesn't actually have real knowledge, then he's simply cheating.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: There's nothing practical that they say.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rāmeśvara: They say nothing practical.
Prabhupāda: That means they do not follow any practical. That is their rascaldom. Nothing practical means they do not know what is the practical realization of God. That is their ignorance. And still they are claiming to be teachers. That is cheating. Just like these so-called scientists, they are theorizing, but they cannot practically prove. Therefore, their knowledge is imperfect. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate BG 7.19 . Jñānavān , the wise, after many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, when he surrenders, that is practical. Simply knowledge is useless, theoretical. When he practically surrenders, that is end of knowledge. That is perfection.
Jayatīrtha : (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is stated. You don't read Bhagavad-gītā? You don't read?
Rāmeśvara: In class we have, every evening.
Prabhupāda: So in the Tenth Chapter it is said, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam BG 10.10 . Do you know this verse? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. "One who is engaged in devotional service with love and faith," buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi, "I give him intelligence." That is stated. Satata-yuktānām, "Twenty-four hours engaged with love and faith in My service, I give him intelligence, not to others." That is the qualification. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi te yena mām upayānti. What kind of intelligence? By which one can come back to home, back to Godhead. Not for material enjoyment, or bluffing or cheating. Not that intelligence. That intelligence also given by Him, indirectly. "If you want to cheat, all right, I will give you how to cheat others." That is material. In the material world, we can cheat. In the spiritual world, there is no question of cheating.
Jayatīrtha: The intelligence by which we can come to Kṛṣṇa is a special kind of intelligence.
Prabhupāda: That is perfect intelligence. Therefore we say Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. In the Fifteenth Chapter, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: BG 15.15 "I am sitting in everyone's heart. All intelligence, memory, is coming from Me, and forgetfulness also is caused by Me." So He is the supreme controller in every respect.
Jayatīrtha: Why are some people remembering and some people are forgetting Him?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: If Kṛṣṇa is the source of both remembrance and forgetfulness...
Prabhupāda: Yes. When Kṛṣṇa sees that "Here is a rascal, so let him forget Me." So He will give him intelligence so that he can forget Kṛṣṇa for good. Not for good—at least for some time.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the desire of the individual soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante BG 4.11 . "As one surrenders unto Me, according to that." Real process is surrender. So if you surrender with some reservation, with some ulterior motive, then Kṛṣṇa will give you proportionately intelligence. When you are cent percent without any reservation surrender, then you get all facility, all help from Kṛṣṇa, without asking... Just like a small child, he is fully surrendered unto the parent. The parent looks after all the necessities. He doesn't ask anything. That is wanted.
Jayatīrtha: [break] ...the six principles of surrender in devotional service.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very important. What is the time?
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) minutes to seven. One of the six principles is that our interest must be the same in that we can't have any separate interest outside of the interest of the Lord. So that...
Prabhupāda: That is surrender. You have no personal interest.
Jayatīrtha: That would be another test of the spiritual master, is that if he has some interest outside of Kṛṣṇa's interest, then we can understand that he isn't surrendered.
Prabhupāda: Anyone. All these rascals come as guru. They say, "I am Kṛṣṇa." Therefore, he has got his own interest. That is immediately disqualification, that he is a rascal. Kick him in his face, as soon as he says.
Jayatīrtha: If a person is surrendering to Kṛṣṇa, he won't take over Kṛṣṇa's post.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa one gets this bona fide spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is always merciful. He comes Himself also and demands surrender, but we do not do that. That we cannot do.
Jayatīrtha: As you were saying last night, if we had no independence, then there wouldn't be any question of... We'd be just like dull matter. There'd be no difference. So we have that independence.
Prabhupāda: By our misuse of independence, we do not surrender. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender!"
Jayatīrtha: The spiritual master teaches how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: And it's done by surrendering to the teachings of the spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Then whatever he teaches is perfect, because to the surrendered soul Kṛṣṇa gives the intelligence. So when he speaks, he speaks perfectly because Kṛṣṇa is dictating, "You do this, you speak like this."
Svarūpa Dāmodara : In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says to Sanātana Gosvāmī that spiritual life starts by accepting..., the moment the disciple accepts a spiritual master. And then he follows the instruction that...
Prabhupāda: Ādau gurvāśrayam , ādau first to accept a spiritual master. Sad-dharma pṛcchā . Then inquiries. Sādhu mārgānugamanam . These are stated in our Nectar of Devotion .
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives [break] And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. (indistinct)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: So if someone is sincere, we want them to follow devotional principles. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. If you have the determination, Kṛṣṇa will help. If she is determined that "Even if I die, I shall not smoke," then Kṛṣṇa will help her. And if she thinks, "So I'll not do it. If Kṛṣṇa likes, He will help me." (indistinct) Just like (indistinct). He has prepared some nice foodstuff. So he says, "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will give Him; otherwise I shall eat." (laughter) "And if Kṛṣṇa is very hungry, He will come." So this alternative proposal is not accepted. "If Kṛṣṇa comes, I will offer Him this. Otherwise I shall eat."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is personal motivation.
Prabhupāda: This is not surrender.
Jayatīrtha: Kṛṣṇa is not attracted by the foodstuff; He's attracted by the devotion.
Prabhupāda: Devotion, yes. For Kṛṣṇa we can offer (indistinct). [break]
Jayatīrtha: You will go from London to Bombay?
Prabhupāda: If need be. (indistinct) [break]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is dark.
Prabhupāda: It's getting darker and darker. (indistinct) So we will have to change our plan. [break] (indistinct) ...and they are also making dog show.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When I came here, I was walking and I saw big house and the restaurants. So I didn't know what... So I asked somebody, "Oh, this is just (indistinct)." And afterward I found out it was some food made out of...
Devotee (2) : Meat.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But I thought in the other sense that it may be dog's meat(?) [break] neighbour(?) from Poona, he was also from Calcutta, (indistinct) to me, he came little later than I, he thought... One day he came to me and he said he took a hamburger in the restaurant. He said that hamburger is not made out of beef. He said it is made out of ham. So he said he had hamburger. He came to me and he said. I said, "So you have taken beef?" So he said "No, it is not. It is ham."
Prabhupāda: Now many Indians are taking beef. Most. In London, all Indians they take beef. The school children, they take beef.
Jayatīrtha: They don't remember their culture.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When they come here, they change everything, most of them.
Devotee (2): I run into many Indian people, many young boys going to school, on saṅkīrtana , on holidays. They don't want to try to understand Bhāgavata philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Indian student?
Devotee (2): Some students, they are going colleges for higher learning.
Prabhupāda: He was inquiring that why we ask no meat-eating. They (indistinct) that why we ask no meat-eating. That Dr. Bernhard, he was asking.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Benford?.
Prabhupāda: Benford. [break] ...before me never dared to ask people to stop meat-eating. Rather, they learned how to eat meat. Vivekananda was eighty years ago, he came. He learned how to eat meat. Instead of teaching Vedānta , he learned how to eat meat.
Jayatīrtha: In the Vedānta Society temple in Santa Barbara, they were offering chicken soup...
Prabhupāda: Prasādam.
Jayatīrtha: ...to the Goddess Kālī an offering, and then they were distributing it as prasādam.
Prabhupāda: In the name of Vedānta.
Jayatīrtha: Vedānta means the goal of knowledge, but they are making an end of knowledge. Keśava went to Santa Barbara last night to finish up some last minute business he had there, but now he's back and he is resting.
Prabhupāda: So he is prepared to go to London?
Jayatīrtha: He seems anxious to go, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's good. Why Śyāmasundara does not return?
Jayatīrtha: He's here. He's also asleep. He came in the middle of the night, two or three o'clock in the morning.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) is in charge of our traveling saṅkīrtana party, so he's back here for a few days. They're going around to all the fairs, state fairs, county fairs, and distributing literature. He's had very great success
Prabhupāda: Indians are coming in Europe and America to learn technology, but next generation will come here to learn spiritual science, to seek brāhmaṇas. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, there's no doubt about it. They will learn technology the coming years, and when they become frustrated again, then they will again learn the spiritual science.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: A lot of times when the Indian people come to our temple, they remark like that, that they've never seen such a temple and devotees.
Prabhupāda: There is no temple in India. As we are maintaining our temple, there is no such temple in India. There are temple, they are neglected. Just like here, the churches are neglected. [break] ...demons, and here we are manufacturing demigods.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I read in the news that in the next five-year plan, they are planning to spend about thirty-two billion rupees for education, the greatest for ten years. They said that there were so many mistakes for the last ten years in introducing the basic education that everybody said there is no success. So they are planning another thirty-two billion rupees from 1974 onwards.
Prabhupāda: What education? To eat meat and beef.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That education. And no restriction of sex even amongst the leaders.
Jayatīrtha: And all advanced contraceptive methods.
Prabhupāda: This Jawaharlal(?) was implicated with his sister, and some say with his daughter also, and he was the prime minister. This is their position. In our Indian system, education is mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: every woman except your own wife, all mothers. That is education. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā SB 9.19.17 . Either your mother or sister or daughter, you don't live together alone. These are education. And they're freely advocating sex life. What is the (indistinct) difference? In India they're doing, so many leaders. (indistinct), it can be done. The leaders are speaking while doing that. No discrimination, just like hog. No discrimination. [break]
Jayatīrtha: ...in Īśopaniṣad that modern-day educational system means culturing avidyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, avidyā .
Jayatīrtha: So they're spending so much, so many billions of rupees, simply to culture ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Making rogues and guṇḍās and hippies, that's all. The science is manufacturing atom bomb, and philanthropy is becoming hippies. This is the result of education. They are manufacturing compounds, strong contraceptive method, infallible contraceptive method. Suffering only. What is the time now?
Jayatīrtha: (?) minutes to seven.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this propensity will increase in this Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]
Jayatīrtha: ...so many riots by the students at the university there that the shopkeepers in the local area are suing the State because the windows have been broken so many times and so much merchandise has been stolen by the students, they think the State should pay them back.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. The State must be responsible. What the State reply?
Jayatīrtha: Well, they're having to litigate in court over it. The State doesn't want to do it. So this university there is one of the most famous universities in the whole country. They spend so many millions of dollars to maintain it nicely. [break] (dog barking) ...changing their bodies in particular ways to make them look (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: When you do not take care of God, you must take care of dog. (laughter) (end)