760627 - Conversation - New Vrindaban, USA
Prabhupāda: So one learned brāhmaṇa, he said, "All right sir, namaskār your Kṛṣṇa. I cannot believe all these things." And the cobbler, he began to cry, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa is so great, He can do anything." So he, Nārada Muni asked, he saw the learned brāhmaṇa refused to accept, and this cobbler is so absorbed that he's crying, "Ah, Kṛṣṇa can do anything." So he asked him, "Do you believe this?" "Yes, why not?" "So how do you believe it?" "Now I'm sitting under this banyan tree, and so many banyan fruits are falling down, and I can see there are hundreds and thousands of seeds within the fig, and each seed contains a banyan tree. So why can I not believe? If within this seed a big banyan tree can be kept, what is the difficulty for Kṛṣṇa to pull the elephant through the hole of a needle?" He has got reason. He is not blindly believing. How the scientist who does not believe in God, he can explain that within the small seed there is a big banyan tree? Let them do that. By chemical composition make little seed. As I told, make little egg. They cannot do anything. Still they are so proud.
Dhrstadyumna: Yesterday we read, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that these are the qualities of the demon, that arrogance and pride, and their philosophy is there is no God in control. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā .
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in that story, the cobbler actually was more advanced than the brāhmaṇa, and yet in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa explains that "Anyone can approach Me, even the strī śūdra dvija bandhu, " they can all approach the supreme destination. Then in the next verse he says "How much greater, then, are the brāhmaṇas, the righteous, the devotees, the saintly kings." I was wondering how are they greater?
Prabhupāda: You do not understand it?
Devotee (1): I do not understand how they are greater than the lower person who surrenders.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your spiritual master and you, if somebody says that you can come into the..., any one of you can come in this car. So spiritual master goes, you also go. Does it mean that spiritual master is not greater than you? Do you think like that?
Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then? It is the same thing. Suppose Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has brought this car, so he says, "All of you can come." So I go, you go, does it mean that you and your spiritual master is equal? Do you think like that? It is same thing. Everyone can go to Godhead, there is no doubt, but still there is difference between brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, śūdras. So far going into the car, the equal right is there, but it does not mean that your spiritual master or the next group, they are not greater than you. Don't think like that. The same car, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is driving, I am also there, you are also there. Does it mean that we are all equal? There must be gradation. The right is given to everyone. It does not mean that immediately they become all one. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He accepted everyone, "Come on." But the distinction is there. We are inviting everyone to partake Kṛṣṇa prasādam . That does not mean that immediately all of them have become of the equal rank. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was so kind, but still there was distinction. When He was taking prasādam, personal associates, they were sitting with Him. Is it not? So this is called maryādā. Maryādā means honor. That must... Varieties must be there. Otherwise we become Māyāvādīs—everything is equal, all one. This is Māyāvāda philosophy. No varieties. There must be variety. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And as soon as you make it varietyless, all equal, that is Māyāvāda. Just see even in this flower, this is also flower and this is also flower. Does it mean they are of the same rank? This is understanding. Together they look very beautiful, but if you take separate value, then it is valuable than this flower. That distinction must be there. If somebody says "I am accepting even the leaf in this garland," then what to speak of rose? It is like that. Kṛṣṇa says that. That does not mean leaf and rose have the same value. One is making a beautiful garland, "I am accepting everything." Mixed together it looks very nice, but individually the leaf has value, the rose has value, the flower has value. Not that because they are put together they have equal value. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.
Kulādri: In democracy they say everyone is...
Prabhupāda: Nonsense democracy. What is...? Don't talk of this nonsense talk. (laughter). Democracy, communism, still there are varieties. But you make a president. Let everyone become president.
Kulādri: That's what they've done, now the śūdras...
Prabhupāda: They have not done. Has everyone got the president's power? How do they say that you have done. Everyone equal? That is not possible. These are imagination. Mano-rathenasato dhāvato bahiḥ Everything is there in the Bhāgavatam. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. These rascals who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they have no value. They are simply speculating within the mind, mano-rathena, and they'll act all abominable, because they are on the mental platform. I'll say "I think like this," you'll say "I think like this." And nobody, none of us perfect. Then what is the use of your thinking like this or thinking like that? Both of them are imperfect. So if so many rascals sit together, or dogs, they simply bark, that's all. It has no value. So our propaganda is that "Don't remain in the dog platform. Come to the human platform." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There you will get, "If we all dogs meet together and pass a resolution, then it will be organized." That is democracy. Democracy means like that. The dog is kept as dog, and they are assembled together to take their votes. What is the value of their vote? They are dogs. I've publicly said this, where?
Devotees: Melbourne.
Prabhupāda: Melbourne. The United Nations is an assembly of barking dogs, I've said that, (laughs) and they published it.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "His Divine Grace has come to hound us."
Devotee (2): There is a so-called spiritual master, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who is giving meditation courses to them.
Prabhupāda: That is another cheating. Meditation... Whatever nonsense they are doing, you don't know, nobody knows. That's all. Bhava satrugna. (?) "If you become dumb, you have no enemy." Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāṣate. "A rascal is beautiful so long he does not speak." So better meditation; don't speak. Nobody will detect you. This is going on. If you speak, then you'll be detected what you are. And if you sleep by posing meditation, then nobody will ask "What you are doing, nonsense?" This is meditation. Meditation is another cheating. That Prahlāda Mahārāja has detected. Huh? Find out this verse, Seventh Canto.
Hari-śauri: This Śrī Chinmoy is supposed to be this resident guru at the United Nations.
Prabhupāda: Whatever he may be, but we have got our own formula to understand.
Hari-śauri: He did a practical demonstration of what he said a person who is in touch with God can be capable of doing if he allows himself to become an instrument of God. So for eight months he painted continually, and he produced 27,000 paintings, and he said that this was proof that he was God realized.
Prabhupāda: Mauna, the word begins with mauna.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maunam, like in silence. Mauna-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhvavana?
mauna-vrata-sruta-tapo-'dhyayana-sva-dharma-
vyākhya-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyaḥ
prāyaḥ paraṁ puruṣa te tv ajitendriyānāṁ
vārtā bhavanty uta na vātra tu dāmbhikānām
SB 7.9.46
"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are ten prescribed methods on the path to liberation—to remain silent, not to speak to anyone, to observe vows, to amass all kinds of Vedic knowledge, to undergo austerities, to study the Vedas and other Vedic literatures, to execute the duties of varṇāśrama-dharma, to explain the śāstras, to stay in a solitary place, to chant mantras silently, and to be absorbed in trance. These different methods for liberation are generally only a professional practice and means of livelihood..."
Prabhupāda: Means of livelihood.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "...means of livelihood for those who have not conquered their senses. Because such persons are falsely proud, these procedures may not be successful."
Prabhupāda: You can get some prestigious position from another rascal, but that will not solve the problem. What is the purport there?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda. "As stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam :
kecit kevalayā bhaktyā
vāsudeva-parāyaṇaḥ
aghaṁ dhunvanti kartsnyena
niharam iva bhāskaraḥ
SB 6.1.15
'Only a rare person who has adopted complete, unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa can uproot the weeds of sinful actions with no possibility that they will revive. He can do this simply by discharging devotional service, just as the sun can immediately dissipate fog by its rays.' The real purpose of human life is to attain liberation from material entanglement. Such liberation may be achieved by many methods- tapasa brahmacāryeṇa śamena ca damena ca SB 6.1.13—but all of them more or less depend on tapasya, austerity, which begins with celibacy. Śukadeva Gosvāmī says that those who are vāsudeva-parāyaṇa, who have fully surrendered to the lotus feet of Lord Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, automatically achieve the results of mauna (silence), vrata (vows), and other such methods, simply by discharging devotional service."
Prabhupāda: Take, for example, mauna. Mauna means don't talk rubbish. It is better not to talk than to talk foolish. So mauna is meant for them who cannot talk about Kṛṣṇa. Better stop talking. Mauna-vrata. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, he'll talk all nonsense. So sometimes the spiritual master says that "You remain silent for twelve years." So (laughter) instead of talking nonsense, you remain silent for twelve years. That is mauna. Because as soon as you'll talk, you'll be captured where you are. Better not to talk. This is mauna-vrata. But one who is devotee, why he'll not...? He'll talk about Kṛṣṇa. Vācāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Always talking about Kṛṣṇa. Why he should be silent? If he remains silent, then people will not get the benefit. Let him speak always of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that yāre dekho tāre kaho kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Whomever you meet, you simply talk about Kṛṣṇa, what He has taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. You become guru. So why guru will stop? Guru will speak. But what kind of speaking? What Kṛṣṇa has spoken. Not nonsense. Not like that: "I have painted so many pictures, therefore I have become God realized." Where Bhagavān says "By painting pictures one may..." He does not say, Kṛṣṇa does not say. He has invented this. So therefore our test is, whether he's a bona fide guru, whether he's talking what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then he's guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all, finished. Why should we bother? This is the test. If he's speaking, repeating the same thing, what Kṛṣṇa said, then he's guru. If he's talking something else, then he's rascal. Immediately take it. If you know this art, how to detect the rascal and guru, the test is already there. Where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. Guru will say "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." He'll never say that "I have become Kṛṣṇa. You simply surrender to me." To surrender to Kṛṣṇa means surrender to guru also. You'll learn it. So "Kṛṣṇa is now dead; now I have become Kṛṣṇa." This is rascal, immediately. So to test a guru and a rascal, there is no difficulty if you are well conversant with the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā . There is no question. Kṛṣṇa says ya imaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. This confidential knowledge, what is that? Sarva-dharmān pariyajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ, one who is teaching this confidential knowledge—just surrender to Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa says "Ah, he is My dearmost friend." So you become dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa. Simply say what Kṛṣṇa says. Why do you speak all other nonsense things? You immediately become the dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa. And if you manufacture, then you are a rascal. Why shall I accept a rascal? We shall accept the dearmost friend of Kṛṣṇa as guru . That is wanted. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, when He was asked by a gṛhastha devotee what should be the behavior of a Vaiṣṇava, He immediately said asat-saṅga tyāga, ei vaiṣṇava ācāra: CC Madhya 22.87 "Give up the company of all rascals, asat. " Asat means those who are rascals. That is Vaiṣṇava. Do not mix with all rascals, asat. Now how shall I know who is rascal and who is not a (rascal)? Asat eka 'strī-saṅgī—-eka asādhu, kṛṣṇa-bhakta āra. One who is too much attached with woman, he is rascal. Another rascal, who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. So we have got everything test tube. Put the test tube and you understand. If one is strī-saṅgī... Strī-saṅgī means not only the man, the man or woman, one who are very much sexually attached, he is a rascal. One should give up his company. And another rascal who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That's all, finished. So if you want to be a Vaiṣṇava, you must give up the company of these two rascals. Then your progress is guaranteed. Everything is there. There is no difficulty to distinguish between rascals and intelligent, guru and bluffer. Everything is there. And to become a perfect Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said asat-saṅga tyāga ei vaiṣṇava. Don't talk even with these rascals. But sometimes in the preaching work we have to talk with such rascals, but not to take their theory but to teach them our theory. If you become defeated by their theory, then you are not a preacher. Don't preach, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You are not fit for teaching. If you become overcome by their teaching, then you are finished. A preacher is madhyama-adhikārī, advanced devotee. He can preach. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī should be engaged in temple worship, very nicely, then gradually he'll come to the madhyama-adhikārī. So the preacher is madhyama-adhikārī. A kaniṣṭha-adhikārī cannot become preacher. He is in the lowest stage of devotional service; he cannot become preacher. He'll be conquered by the asat. And madhyama-adhikārī, he knows how to deal with asat. At least he does not mix with them. That's all. If he cannot defeat them, he should avoid them, because that valuable time can be utilized for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness to a person who is inquisitive to hear. Bāliśya. Bāliśya means innocent. He wants to know something about Kṛṣṇa. Better deal with him than with the rascals and waste time. Better avoid the rascals. Just like in hospital, emergency cases, the doctor, when they see that this patient hopeless, he does not take care anymore. But when there is hope, they give medicine and try to... So hopeless condition, better not. Don't talk with them. That's all. That is vaiṣṇava-ācāra. Then he'll remain safe. Hopeless person, don't waste your time talking with them. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. Four observations. Bhagavān- īśvara; prema -love. And, prema-maitrī, friendship with devotees. And kṛpa, mercy to the innocent person. And upekṣā, no more talking. Don't waste time, talking with all these nonsense. Better utilize, properly utilize the time by instructing a person who is innocent and eager to hear. Like that. So this mauna-vrata-tapas-śruti...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
mauna-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhyāyana-sva-dharma-
vyākhya-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyaḥ
prāyaḥ paraṁ puruṣa te tv ajitendriyānām
SB 7.9.46
Prabhupāda: These things are meant for ajitendriyānām, who could not control the senses, ajitendriyānām. And who has engaged his senses in the service of the Lord, they are not ajitendriya. If you have engaged your mind in Kṛṣṇa, the mind is the king of senses; then your senses cannot be misled. Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane SB 9.4.18 . Then if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, man-mana bhava mad bhakto, then what you'll speak except Kṛṣṇa? If you speak nonsense, that means your mind is not engaged in Kṛṣṇa. The mind is the center of all sensual activities. So if your mind is always in Kṛṣṇa, how we can talk nonsense? Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. He'll be always engaged in talking about Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So if we keep our mind always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is no question of mauna, because we'll have to talk about Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I remain mauna ? If we talk about Kṛṣṇa, or what Kṛṣṇa has said, then I am benefited, and the audience, he is also benefited. Take Bhagavad-gītā and talk. So those who are Kṛṣṇa devotees, they'll gladly hear. Those who are inquisitive, innocent, they'll also hear. And the dviṣāt, those who are envious, they'll go away. That's good, clear. Talk about Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual. Don't talk anything else.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? How can we give up our enviousness and reluctance to serve the spiritual master and the other devotees?
Prabhupāda: Answer.
Dhrstadyumna: One can free himself from envy by serving. You serve the devotees and follow the instruction of the spiritual master. In this way the mind becomes your best friend.
Prabhupāda: A devotee is never envious of another devotee. He is not a devotee. Tad-adhīneṣu maitrī. One who is devotee, we have to make friendship with them. How we can hate them?
Devotees: Jaya, all glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)