770126 - Conversation A - Jagannatha Puri
Prabhupāda: ...but they will explain immediately. Explain immediately. Say so many things. One man becomes blind. They will explain, "This happened and, oh, that..." But why don't you replace it? This is going on.
Satsvarūpa: When there is a big earthquake, they will come out and say, "This happened..."
Prabhupāda: "This happened, this happened, this happened." And therefore in Bengal it is said, pāgale ki nā bale chāgale ki nā khāya: "The madman, what he does not say, and a goat, what he does not eat?"
Gurukṛpā: Madman?
Prabhupāda: What does he not say?
Satsvarūpa: He'll say anything.
Prabhupāda: He says anything nonsense. Everything they will immediately explain, "It is this." Why this color? "And this electron and..." What is called? Proton? No? What are the names?
Satsvarūpa: Electron, proton, neutron?
Prabhupāda: No, no. They have got another invention. Die-N-E. What is called?
Gargamuni: DNA?
Prabhupāda: DNA. In explaining, they are very expert. And if you know what is that, then why don't you replace it? What is that DNA nonsense? Put it into use. In the classroom they'll make: "This DNA is going this way, that way..." Now, who has made this arrangement, exactly going in the same way? You cannot manufacture either DNA and the movements also. Actually it is very wonderful things are going.
Satsvarūpa: Any explanation except Kṛṣṇa. They give some alternative explanation than Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is their aim: no God.
Satsvarūpa: Now these psychiatrists are doing that with our Hare Kṛṣṇa. They say, "When these people... They take to Hare Kṛṣṇa because of this, because of that, and when they chant this happens in their brain, and this is happening." They don't believe that it is anything transcendental.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They say that "There is a brain. There is a tissue. There is cerebrum. On account of, they are thinking spiritually. Otherwise if it is cut off, there will be no more opportunity." They'll do that, brain operation. And whatever nonsense they will do, we'll accept.
Gurukṛpā: They have electric.
Satsvarūpa: Electric shock.
Prabhupāda: Dangerous community. These scientists, the so-called, they are dangerous community. Now, if five ounce(?) sight(?) is there, "No, it should be operated. Then he will be cured." And actually it is happening. In the hospitals they make all kinds of experiment, and if you say, "No, why you are doing that? A patient is suffering," "We must execute our science. So long the life is there we shall try to save him." They say like that. They will go on with all nonsense activity, and if you want to stop them, they will say, "No, our science has got so..." They take in writing that "Whatever we shall do, you cannot object," hospital. It is a place of demons. And as soon as they get a patient who will not protest, they'll make it, they'll make it and operation. No medicine, simply operate.
Gurukṛpā: What they do now is... What they've been doing is they have all these pills, and they give them to people to experiment, to see what the reaction is.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is going on. Big, big patent medicine, they will explain scientifically and give to the doctor and make experiment, and they will go on making experiment. I know this. This is their business. They'll write, they will call for the medical students—they have learned new, new words—and they'll pay to make a literature with bombastic scientific word, and they'll prepare literature. This literature will be distributed and give their medicine, and they may pay them for false propaganda. This is going on to introduce new patent medicine. I know that. Simply water they will inject to get money. The patients have come, innocent, illiterate—"How want to be...? Do you want to be cured very quickly or little less?" He's a laborer. He says, "Yes, sir, if you cure me." "So then injection will be required." He has no disease, and they'll give some water injection, yes, and take fee. Because as soon as there is question injection, he'll charge at least four rupees, five rupees. He has no disease. They will inject water and take four, five rupees. In India I have seen.
Gurukṛpā: If you need... If you have one infection in America, you know what you need—some penicillin, something to kill the infection. But the doctor will have to make all sorts of experiments to tell you what you already know.
Prabhupāda: "You first of all give so much blood. So much give me, and then..."
Gurukṛpā: Yes. And charge you fifty dollars.
Prabhupāda: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.
Gurukṛpā: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.
Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man. In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases. These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men. You know that?
Satsvarūpa: The first time?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll promise... You have got five thousand dollars. They'll promise 100,000 dollars' property you'll get, and how it will be done, this scheme, that scheme... "We'll do this scheme, that..." Then they will take five thousand dollars from you, and they will say, "Now it is finished. Now bring more money." Then further made... That lawyer who was trying to give me a permanent visa?
Satsvarūpa: Yeah, some Greek name.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fishlington or something like that.
Satsvarūpa: Mitralanti(?) or something.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So he was taking every fortnightly 150 dollars by telephone, and Rāyarāma, he was paying. He took about five hundred, six hundred dollars and did not do anything, simply extending the date. The lawyers will plunder. The government men will plunder. The physician will plunder. Ordinary dealing, they will plunder. The shopkeepers will plunder. The... And bank will say that "You take money. You pay your bills. We'll give you loan, we'll charge interest. And when you get your salary, then you have to deposit it in the bank." And they'll adjust. And again you are penniless. Again you take loan. The social arrangement is so made that you simply depend on loan. And to earn this money you'll have to go five hundred miles away from your home, early in the morning, in the car.
Gurukṛpā: And in the train.
Prabhupāda: Train also. So how you can be happy? This is their civilization. You study. I have studied in your country, everywhere. This is civilization.
Gurukṛpā: Our printing man from Dai Nippon... The printing man who was doing our book from Dai Nippon, he would come to the house at eight-thirty at night. And he lives... Every day he travels two hours to Dai Nippon in the morning and at night another two hours.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Many. Why Dai Nippon?
Gurukṛpā: But this was eight-thirty at night he came.
Prabhupāda: No, Bombay, Bombay, Calcutta.
Gurukṛpā: I asked him, "What time do you go to work?" He said, "At nine in the morning." I said, "But it is eight-thirty. You have been working now eleven hours." He said, "Well, after I leave here, I must go back to the office and finish my work. I will be finished at eleven tonight. Then I will go home. I will get home at one o'clock, and then I must get up at six in the morning to go to the office." So much tapasya .
Prabhupāda: There is a book, novel. The subject matter is that the man, when he goes out of home the child is sleeping. He has to rise four o'clock to prepare to take the six o'clock train. At that time his child is sleeping. And when he comes back at ten o'clock, the child is sleeping. So he does not know. So when he's grown up, on Sunday he's asking his mother, "Who is this man?" (laughs) This is the subject matter. They have written in a very... He is asking, "Who is this man?" When he was child, he did not see, neither inquired. Now, when he's grown up, on Sunday he sees that this man is very intimately talking with his mother. He... In this way...
Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice." Therefore they have been called as uṣṭra. Uṣṭra eats own, drinks or eats his own blood, and takes the thorn as very good. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. These animals have been specially mentioned: dog; viḍ-varāha, means hog; uṣṭra; and khara means ass. How Bhāgavata has selected. (laughs) Śva means dog. Dog, after technical education, if he does not get a post where he can use this computer and other big, big..., he's a dog. He goes to a bank, "Sir, I am expert in this machine work. Can you give me a job?" "No, no. There is no vacancy." Then again he puts his tail, goes another, another. What is use, this? The big, big technologists, unless they get a suitable job, they're just like dog. Dog is loitering in the street, no food. So these men with all this high technological knowledge, if they do not get a proper master, they are nothing but dog. This is university education. So dog and hog. Hog means he can eat any nonsense thing, whole day working, if he gets sex. Never mind whether mother, sister or daughter or any. You see the hog's family. They are very much sexually inclined, without any discrimination, and eating stool. This is his life. You see nowadays this man, he's eating anything, the hog's intestine. What is that?
Gurukṛpā: Sausage.
Prabhupāda: Very good food. What is that? Hog intestine. Hog is eating stool, and the intestine is filled up with the stool, and they have to clear it out. When it is boiled there is a so bad smell. And that is very palatable. And by eating, as soon as he gets little strength, then sex without any discrimination. So hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha. And the uṣṭra. Uṣṭra I have already explained, camel. And then ass. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra-khara. Khara means ass. Now, why ass is mentioned? Means he's work with the washerman, and he loads tons of cloth to take him to the ghāṭa where he'll wash, and give him a little grass. And he'll stand whole day. And again load and again come. He has no eyes to see that "Grass is everywhere, every... Why I am engaged in this washerman? Whose cloth? It is neither my cloth nor his." But he is working: "Oh, washerman is giving me grass."
Gurukṛpā: Everybody's ass.
Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ SB 2.3.19 . And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and election—"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization—"brainwash."
Satsvarūpa: They're especially upset when they see a young man join Hare Kṛṣṇa and give up—give up his career, give up going to the university.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: This is very destructive, they say...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: ...that he's giving all his possessions to the Society, giving up his career or job and his plans for the future. And then they want to stop us.
Bhāgavata: Even in India.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Why you say, speak India or in England? The human intelligence is the same. There is no change. They have made like this: "East," "West" and "England," and... The psychology is the same. The ass is the same. The camel is the same. The dog is the same. We are talking of these dogs. Do you think that in Europe the dog is different from Indian dog? (laughs) They have created another problem. But we take: "You are all dogs. Either you be Indian or England or German, you are, after all, after dog. Your mentality is dog." They have created that "Indian dog is better than the English dog" or "English dog is better than German." What is better? It is dog. You are doglike and hankering after some job in America and amongst Europeans. The Indians are all doing that, the same education. Recently for a post of five hundred men there were three lakhs of applications. This is education. And you'll find uneducated Indian, still he's independent. You will find in Calcutta especially we have seen. Yes. In the morning they'll purchase a bag of potato. Say, he invests twenty rupees. Nowadays he'll sit down in a corner and make two rupees' profit. He invests twenty rupees, and he gets twenty-two. He's satisfied, poor man. Then in the, say, ten to twelve he'll purchase some dāl. He'll go home to home. He'll make another two rupees' profit. In the evening he'll take some kerosene oil, and he'll sell. Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana cho (?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees. And educated? He's just like dog—"Give me job"—and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically. The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education. Otherwise he is becoming hippie. Is that education? And in the Vedic system—education for the brāhmaṇa, how to learn to be truthful, how to control senses, how to become educated in Vedic knowledge. It is for brāhmaṇa. Bas, education, a few men selected. Kṣatriya, he has to learn how to fight: "Go. Fight. Go in the forest and kill animals and lie, try again, learn how to kill." Education. Vaiśya —"Go to the field. See how the plow is moved, how to give protection to the..." Finish education. And śūdra, he has to work under the order of the master. Master says, "Do this": he'll do it. So where is education required, high education, university degrees? And the government is maintaining big, big building, big, big professor, and the professor is... What is that? You told me? Gargamuni was telling.
Satsvarūpa: Oh. All debauches.
Prabhupāda: All debauch. Because they're getting fat salary. What they'll do? They do not know how to use it. Wine, woman, restaurant, dance-finish. So we have got very pessimistic view of this modern world. You may like or not. Simply spoiling time. Śrama eva hi kevalam SB 1.2.8 . Simply work without any profit of the human form of life. And nobody is interested to correct the procedure. If we try to correct them, they will accuse us that "These people are brainwashed. They deviating these young men from the general procedure of human civilization." Hm? What is this? Illicit sex stopped? Then where is life? This is life, if young boys and young girls mix freely and have sex, and as soon as she is pregnant, you go away, let her suffer, no responsibility. The poor girl, long before, father, mother divorce—no protector. And as soon as she selects somebody husband, and as soon as pregnancy, he goes away. And old age—there is no family, no son. Ninety-nine percent the woman class live like that. How hopelessly the old ladies are sitting down—only one cat, one dog, one television. The old men also like that, hopelessness. Or drinking or seeing the television. And a dog friend. Is that life? And we want to correct it—"brainwash."
Gurukṛpā: They are so... They have no brain to even understand this. You cannot talk to them.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to do. Otherwise there is no meaning of preacher. Most thankless task. We want to save them, and they accuse us. My Guru Mahārāja used to give that example: A boy is flying kite, and he's going like this. He's just come on the edge of the roof. He is going to fall down. And somebody says, "Hey! What are you doing this for?" (shouts:) "Why you are checking me? Oh, my kite is gone, gone. I have gone back." This is going on. If you want to save them, they will accuse you that "My kite-flying is disturbed. Don't do this." "And why you are. Why...? You'll fall down." "Never mind. That is my business. Why you are checking me?" This example was given by my Guru Mahārāja. You want to save him. Who is a gentleman who will not save him? He is falling down next moment. That is natural. But he is angry. "Why you have checked my kite-flying?" So it is a different type of civilization, a different style of life. If you want to introduce they will accuse you, so many, like madmen. And still we have to do. That is preaching. You cannot expect very smooth life in preaching.
Gurukṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you've given the example of feeding a pill to a horse.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Nanda-kumāra: Your breakfast is ready.
Prabhupāda: All right. (end)