770509 - Conversation - Hrishikesh

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

770509ED-HRISHIKESH - May 09, 1977 - 84:43 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (indistinct Hindi)

Indian man (1): Wo pahadi ilaka jo hai. yu to hamare yahan se. plain se electricity wahan jati to hai, wo pahadi ilaka jo hai isme abhi andhi-toofan aaya nahi hai. that mountainous region is there. As such electricity flows from the plains to that region, that mountainous region still is not affected by storm and strong winds.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that we have to . . . shall I speak in Hindi or in English? There are others . . .

Indian man (1): Most of us, we can follow in English. You speak in English, we can follow.

Prabhupāda: So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want . . . just like England: there is no food, food grain. They have . . . everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Actually, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, or God, and we are His sons. Kṛṣṇa never claimed that, "Indians are My sons." Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4): "In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Kṛṣṇa should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way. Otherwise they'll suffer continually. They are suffering, and they will continue. (aside) They have come to disturb.

So that philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are trying to distribute all over the world, and they are accepting. This is the first time in the history of the world that foreigners, they are becoming devotees of Kṛṣṇa. Now, in the history of the world there was no temple outside India, neither devotee also.

Indian man (1): The entire credit goes to you, sir.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately, our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual . . .

So there are two sides. (aside:) Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the things. Now you should reform them in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and real United Nations will be formed. There will be no question of nationality. In the Bhagavad-gītā . . . big, big leaders, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but is there any word as "nationalism"?

Indian man (1): None.

Prabhupāda: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that, "I am student." They do not understand even a line of. This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1): Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): Gandhijī believed in trusteeship theory of Īśopaniṣad.

Prabhupāda: Trusteeship . . . trustee . . . who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (1): Or He's the owner.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So He's the owner, and if you follow Kṛṣṇa, then you become trustee. You do not follow Kṛṣṇa; you are unworthy of trusteeship. You interpret in a different way Kṛṣṇa. Even sometimes you say that, "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious." Do you not do? Don't you say like that?

Indian man (1): No, not . . .

Indian man (2): Very passing reference he made once.

Prabhupāda: Why? That means he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.

Indian man (3): Who made this reference? Who made this passing reference, where Kṛṣṇa is fictitious?

Indian man (2): Gandhi made . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhijī.

Indian man (2): (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: I don't speak especially of Gandhi, but there are so many. Everyone takes Bhagavad-gītā and misinterprets in his way. Why? Boliye. tell. Why they should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? What right they have got?

Indian man: aap ke vichar dhara se spasth hamare rai me jo isse upar akarke desh ko vastav me Bhagavad-gītā ka arth samajhne.lagenge... by your chain of thoughts it is clear that in my opinion one who rises above this and makes the country understand the message of Bhagavad-gītā ...

Prabhupāda: isme koi mushkil nahi hai samajhne me. ye log kyo misinterpret karte hain. apna bhi savanash karte hain aur doosre ko bhi. hai yehi to hamara... Bhagvan swayam bol rahe hain ki " Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa "(BG 4.2). jab ye parampara choot gaya to ye nasht ho gaya. there is no difficutly in explaining this. why do these people misinterpret it. they destroy themselves and also the others. this is only our... God is declaring... when the disciplic succession was forgotten then this knowledge was lost. So paramparā, in the paramparā system, the system remains in order. And that is our way of life. Our . . . we are in India. These men have come newly under Western education, but we have got paramparā system, just like Rāmānuja's paramparā, Madhvācārya's paramparā, Viṣṇu Svāmī paramparā. Still there is. Śrī-sampradāya, Madhva-sampradāya, Viṣṇu Svāmī . . .

Indian man (1): Disciplic succession.

Prabhupāda: Succession, yes. So Kṛṣṇa said that the real truth is in the paramparā system. You cannot take anything and misinterpret. Then it is lost. Suppose from the very beginning of my life I have been taught by my father that this is called Dictaphone. Now, if I misinterpret in a different way, then it is lost. "Call a spade a spade." And Kṛṣṇa very distinctly says that, "Because that paramparā system is now lost, I am again speaking to you." Purātana. Find out this word, purātana. Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Why He is speaking purātana, not new definition? Boliye. Tell.

Devotee (1): Should I read, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1):

sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya

yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ

bhakto 'si me sakhā ceti

rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam

(BG 4.3)

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning.

Indian man (2): Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupāda: Read it again.

Devotee (1): "That very ancient science of the relation . . ."

Prabhupāda: No, no, that verse, śloka, you . . .

Devotee (1): Sa evāyaṁ mayā te 'dya . . . (BG 4.3).

Prabhupāda: Sa eva. Aham.

Devotee (1): Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ . . .

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that, "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in a new way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. Boliye. Yes say. bada-bada acharya log, the learned acharyas, Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. Aur ye kehta hai hum Bhagvan se bhi zyada hain, and these people say that they are greater than God. Rascal ideas. Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. moorkh log, sab apan-apna manufacture aur Krishna bola hai, foolish people, they manufacture their own ideas and Krishna has told " yogah proktah puratanah " Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedāntist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedāntists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedāntist . . . he was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedāntist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside) Hmm, don't do it.

Indian man (1): He was bhakta and sakhā.

Prabhupāda: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakhā, or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: śānta, dāsya, sākhya, vātsalya . . . that is Vṛndāvana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sākhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Kṛṣṇa as friend. Hanumān dāsye. Vajrāṅgajī, Hanumān, he, by serving Lord Rāmacandra, the order . . . he was not even human being, animal . . . (indistinct) . . . not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped with love. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Kṛṣṇa with some rasa, in some particular position. That is bhakta.

So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakti. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gītā." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world—immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is going on. ab uska kya jata hai boliye, aur usika against we are standing. Now what does he have to lose, and we are standing against him. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty—if you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept—there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees. lekin hamara country me usko bhool gaya jo sikhaya hai usko... but in our country they have forgotten whatever has been taught...

Indian man (4): (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: are to hona chahiye baki doosri tarah se samajhna chahiye, oh but it must happen, we have to make them understand in a different way, that why we shall misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa was less intelligent, that He left Bhagavad-gītā to be interpreted by some rascal philosopher or politician? He was not intelligent enough to clear the idea? If Kurukṣetra is meant "body," why you should bring in the name of Kurukṣetra the bodily conception of life? What is this? Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ, māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāḥ (BG 1.1). Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre is still there. Why Kurukṣetra should be interpreted as something else?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned the reader in this translation.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned the reader to read the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that, "Bhagavad-gītā should be utilized for my rascaldom." This is going on. ye sab chod ke Bhagavad-gītā As It Is... ye humlog ka prayas hai. Leave all this and take Bhagavad-gītā As It Is... this is our effort. This is our mission. Don't manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.

Indian man (3): This, all about nation, internationaless . . .

Prabhupāda: First of all, there is no question of nationalism. It is all bogus.

Indian man (3): No, that you have spoken. Our request is how best we can implement the teachings of Gītā in these critical days . . .

Prabhupāda: It is already there. It is already there. You kindly take it.

Indian man (3): How to implemant in our daily life . . .?

Prabhupāda: You understand. The difficulty is you do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. Still, you say that you are student of Bhagavad-gītā. This is difficulty.

Indian man (3): I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student—śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7): "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that 'How I can kill such enemies who are my family members?' This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. kitna pareshan karta hai. he troubles so much.

Indian man (3): There are two. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: aisi duniya humlog udhar sukhi hona chahte hain. (laughter) makkhi aakar baithi usko khatam karo. this world and we want to be happy here. a fly is troubling get rid of it. And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana, three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ

prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase

gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca

nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ

(BG 2.11)

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements—earth, water, air, fire—and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned . . .?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam . . . (BG 2.13). So as we are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? Boliye. say something If you have to change your body . . . today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Trivikrama: Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Today you are European; tomorrow you become Indian. And today you are man; tomorrow you become a dog. If you have got love for your country, but your work is doggish, then you become a dog. And who cares for the national dog? The street dog and the . . . at night he takes charge of the street. Nobody has appointed him, but he takes charge, and whole night, "Gow! Gow!" If somebody, new man, enters the neighborhood, "I am in charge." You see? "Why you have entered?" So this is going on. "I am leader of this country." So what is this civilization? Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the leader." He says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29): "I am the leader. I am the friend, well-wisher of everyone." And if a dog says, "I am the leader. I am the well-wisher," so which way we shall go? I shall accept the dog as leader and well-wisher or Kṛṣṇa? Boliye. say something. A barking dog or Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man (2): Naturally Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "I can adjust things." So we are not taking it. har tarah se, From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gītā, everything is perfectly clear. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehāntare. If you simply take, accept Kṛṣṇa as He says, then what is result? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti (BG 4.9). Punar janma, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). But one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly—it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned, if we understand Kṛṣṇa—then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

So that is the real problem. We are solving problems—this problem, that problem, that . . . they are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem, because the fly is meant for that purpose. How . . . you cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him. This is not problem, how to drive away the fly. The real problem, Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam, that you are in the cycle of birth, death . . . tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You get another life and you suffer. Again you get another life. This is your problem. So that problem, Kṛṣṇa says, that "You can solve it. Simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā deham (BG 4.9). That is our business. But we are being deviated from the real business, and we are being engaged in so-called this ism, that ism, that ism. This is spoiling the whole thing.

aśraddadhānāḥ puruṣā

dharmasyāsya parantapa

māṁ aprāpya nivartante

mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani

(BG 9.3)

This life, this human form of life, is meant for understanding the real problem of life and to solve it. This is the opportunity. And Kṛṣṇa personally coming to instruct you, "You solve in this way." But we are so doggish, we will not take. What can be done? Then become a dog. Nature's law will work. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). If you remain doggish—you do not become a human being—then, all right, you become a dog next life. Tathā dehāntara-prā . . . then take life of the street and "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. This . . . for this purpose we request every one of you that you study Bhagavad-gītā very seriously as it is, apply it in your practical life and teach it to others. That is perfection. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that "You become guru, everyone." (break) You simply repeat. Don't misinterpret. Boliye. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . every one of you become a guru, not a bluffer, but a guru, real guru. "How real guru? I can become? I have no qualification." Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128): "You simply take the words of Kṛṣṇa and preach." Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). You simply repeat, "Sir, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being, God." What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says: "There is no superior authority than Me." You simply say, "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority." That's all. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām . . . you preach, "Come here in the temple. See Kṛṣṇa's Deity and always think of Him." Where is the difficulty? Now these Europeans and Americans, what I have done to them? I have not given any bribe. I say: "Here is Kṛṣṇa. He is God." They accept it, worship Him. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Just if you cannot do anything, just offer one obeisances, namaskāra. Any child can do. They have done it, and they are going ahead. kyu uske liye ant-shant bakta hai. why do you speak all nonsense. Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa is there, perfect upadeśa. kyu shanka karke aur ant-shant bak karke apna time bhi barbad auar doosre ka time bhi barbad. ye sab chal raha hai. usko stop kijiye. jo ho gaya ab khatam kijiye. why do you doubt and talk all nonsense and waste your time and the time of others, all this is going on. you must stop this. whatever has passed get over it. As Kṛṣṇa says, you try to assimilate it and distribute it. There is no difficulty. humlog training dete hain aur hamara training mein.koi magic ya jugglery nahi hai. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nān humko samajhana hai. yehi samajhane ke liye hum Eighty-four books likha hai. we give training and in our training there is no magic or jugglery of words. we have to understand. to understand this only I have written 84 books. each book, four hundred pages, in ten years. And we are selling, collecting by selling books, five to six lakh of rupees daily in foreign countries. What is that qualification? We have tried to convince people that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BS 5.1). wo iswara hai. iswara lekin parama iswara "The Supreme Being is Kṛṣṇa." he is god, supreme god. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. formless nahi, nirakar nahi Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ bataya hai. vigrah ka arth hota hai Form. but he is not formless, not without form. it is told, the meaning of statue is having form. Formlessness. Formless is another feature, but real feature is Śyāmasundara. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam.

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena

santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti

yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa . . .

govindam ādi-puruṣam . . .

(BS 5.38)

The Govinda, Śyāmasundara, dvi-bhuja-muralīdhara. Here is the Supreme Being. Take His instruction. Always think of Him. You become perfect. Where is the difficulty? boliye. kyu aap difiicult position create karte hain? Why do you create difficult position? This is going on. uska... chahiye, hum bada hai, krishna se hum bada hai. his... is required. I am great, I am greater than Krishna Surrender to Kṛṣṇa, follow His instruction and be happy. boliye is baat pe kuch kehna hai, boliye. say something if you want to comment on this.

Indian man (4): wo... kaise jayen. that... how to go

Prabhupāda: wo... hai advanced. ek to... usko khoob joota se... wo chal raha hai. wo joota peethe teeethe bhi wo bolta hai hamara kya hai tumhara nuksan hoga, tumhara joota toot jayega. he is advanced... one thing is he should be beaten with shoes... this is going on. even if he is beaten he says I have nothing to lose, it is your loss. your shoes will be spoiled.

Indian man (1): Shameless.

Prabhupāda: uska joota se pitiye to bolta hai hamara kya nuksan hoga tumhara joota toot jayega. isko kaise soodharega . iska aisa mentality hai joota maro "I don't care for you." joota kya maya kum marta hai. Maya ka kaam hi hai khoob joota maro. ek to ye hai aur... iske liye maya ko bhej diya gaya hai... log ko khoob joota lagao, mama maya. Maya ke haat se to chutkara nahi ho sakta hai. if you beat him with shoes then he says what do I lose, you only will spoil your shoes. how will you transform him. his mentality is like that, he says 'I don't care' even when beaten with shoes. illusion(maya) beats us enought with shoes all the time. that is the duty of illusion(maya) to beat us with shoes. this is one thing and... for this maya has been sent... punish the people by beating them with shoes. one cannot be freed of illusion. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mama māyā. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Kṛṣṇa is coming personally to make him understand, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). ye difficulty ho raha hai. ye kya wo ustad Hiranyakasipu usko joota lagate-lagate tabhi uska buddhi khulta hai. ek raasta wo hai khoob joota khao aur ek raasta hai, this is the difficulty. why us even the great Hiranyakasipu was troubled by illusion and being repeatedly beaten by shoes then realization dawned on him. one path is where you get beaten by shoes all the time and the other path is " Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te ". You surrender to Kṛṣṇa; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That depends on you. uska joota uska sar, aur koi raasta nahi hai. his shoes on his head, there is no other way out.

Indian man: wo surrender ke bare me thoda prakash daliye guruji. please throw some light on the subject of surrender.

Indian man: sanghatan hote hue bhi hamari buddhi kaam hi nahi kiya, jaise kehta hai us prakar karya kare. ye sanghatan... even though there was organization my intelligence did not work. how He is telling act accordingly, this is organization.

Prabhupada: buddhi to hai hi nahi, sab to rascal hai. wo rascal ka buddhi ka kya kam hota hai. aap rascaldom chodiye Krishna jo bolta hai wo kijiye. aap bolenge hum rascal bhi rahenge aur surrender bhi karenge, ye to ho nahi sakta. aapka rascaldom jo hai usko chod dijiye aur Krishna jo bolta hai wo suniye, ho gaya. one does not have intelligence, everyone is a rascal. that rascal brain what work does it have. you give up rascaldom. Do what Krishna asks you to do. but you will say that I will remain a rascal and also surrender. this cannot happen. give up your rascaldom and listen to what Krishna has to say, it's done.

Indian man: ye surrender ka concept aur detail me sunaiye. please explain this concept of surrender in further detail.

Prabhupada: surrender hai jo believe kijiye Krishna bol rahe hain, Surrender unto Him and hear to what Krishna has to say. "Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja" (BG 18.66). Don't manufacture nonsense things. usko sab chodo Rascaldom. leave this rascaldom. "Simply surrender to Me." ye aapke haat me hai. aur aap to chala jayenge manufacture karke this -ism,this -ism, that ism, that ism. to ye rascaldom chod dijiye aur :sarva dharman parityajya" zara sa buddhiman hai aur accha-accha rascaldom -ism bana sakte ho... Ab dekhiye Bhagavad-gītā discussion ho raha hai, the Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. aur udhar nonviolence lagana chahte hain. kaisa hoga. wo Bhagavad-gītā hai usko ladai ke field me pehli baar "Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ" (BG 1.1). The first word is ladai. And you want to prove with nonviolence. ye rascaldom nahi hai. boliye. The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ. yudh me non-violence. kitna bada maha-paap hai. it is in your hands. you will go after manufacturing this-ism, this -ism, that -ism, that -is. so give up this rascaldom and surrender. you have limited intelligence and you can manufacture with your rascaldom so many -isms... now you see Bhagavad-gītā is going on and there they want to apply non-violence, how is it possible. that Bhagavad-gītā in the battlefield for the first time " dharma.... " the first word is fight. and you want to prove with non-violence. is this not rascaldom, tell me. the first word used is ' yuyutsavah ' , non-violence in war. This is such a great sin.

Indian man: Arjun ne bhi to study ki thi pehle... Arjun also had studied the situation before...

Prabhupada: wo Arjun ka baat chodiye... Aap jo kehte hain wo yuyutsava ka arth ye hai non-violence, ye kabhi ho sakta hai. jhoot, apne ko bhi barbad karte hain aur doosre ko bhi barbad karte hain. politics me non-violence. bada-bada raja log, kshatriya ladai karna hoga, marna hoga, wo shikar khelta tha marne ko kyunki achanak bol dega kisiko ay maar do isko, wo nahi maarta hai. wo chota-mota janwar ko marte-marte usko practice ho gaya hai. Violence sikhaya jata hai. Violence required to keep the society in order. Brahman bhi chahiye, kshatriya bhi chahiye, vaishya bhi chahiye, sudra bhi chahiye " chatur varnam maya srshtam guna karma vibhagasah " agar khali brahman bana diya to Who will give protection? ye sab scientific hai. usko humlog le to sudhar gaye aur... to jahannum me. to ye baat hai. to humlog ka nivedan hai ustadi chod dijiye. Krishna jo bol rahe hain usko lijiye, sab theek ho jayega. let us not take Arjuna's matter.... According to what you say ' yuyutsava ' means non-violence, can this ever happen, false. they ruin themselves and also ruin the others. non-violence in politics. Great kings, kshartriyas have to fight, have to kill. he used to go for hunting because suddenly he will tell somebody to kill, he will not kill. By killing small animals he has practiced. Violence is taught. Brahman is also required, kshatriya is also required, vaishya is also required and sudra is also required. If there are only Brahmans who will give protection? all this is scientific. if we accept this then our lives are transformed and... go to hell. so this is the matter. so our request is give up high-headedness. Accept what Krishna is telling you and everything will be alright.

Indian man: (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupada: aap bhi to sanjay ko saheb bolte hain. you also call sanjay as Mister.

Indian man: wo Indira Gandhi khatam ho gayi. Indira Gandhi's rule is over (indistinct conversation)

Prabhupada: ek upstart baccha lampat usko bana diya India ka Prime Minsiter. Ye to bhagvan save kiya. one upstart wanton child and he is made PM of our country. Only God saved our country.

Indian man: ... save kiya. Aapke aashirvad se save hua hai. ... saved. It is saved with your blessings.

Prabhupada: hum bhagvan se prarthana kiye. Chanakya Pandit niti shastra me kehte hain " vishwas daiva kartavyam stree su raja kuleshu ca ". I prayed to God. Chanakya Pandit states in his ' Niti shastra ' " vishwas daiva kartavyam stree su raja kuleshu ca ". So "Don't trust woman and politician." This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahābhārata, there is not a single instance . . . we had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state . . .? Very, very qualified women. You know. " Na svatantratām arhati, striyaḥ " (Manu-saṁhitā). For woman there is no independence. The Manu-saṁhitā. They must stay under father, under husband or under elderly sons. Three stages. Kuntī . . .

Indian man (5): (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: pehle bhi ye hamara Indian society, in the earlier days also in our Indian society A young girl cannot go out without father's, mother . . . she cannot mix with any other young man. Strictly prohibited. abhi sab chut gaya hai. now everything is forgotten. If you want to revive real Indian civilization or Vedic civilization for the good of the whole human society, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You'll be happy. There is no doubt. (indistinct Hindi) Why do you try to undo something which is spoken by Bhagavān, Vyāsadeva? (indistinct Hindi) So how can you make nonviolence? mahan atikram, mahan ko atikram karna maha paap. Bolta hai " Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ " (CC Madhya 17.186). We are not following mahājana, but we are transgressing. wo kehta hai... pehle se to misguide tha (aside) Bring. Bring cutting. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. And mahājanas are also mentioned: It is a great sin. He says "Mahajano yena gatah sa pantah" He says... he was misguided from the beginning.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ

kapila kumāraḥ manuḥ

prahlādo janako bhīṣmo

balir vaiyāsakir vayam

(SB 6.3.20)

sab cheez hai. everything is there. We want to become artificially rascal, mahājana. That is going on. isliye Krishna bol raha hai that is why Krishna is saying " Sarva-dharmān parityajya " (BG 18.66): "Whatever you have learned, forget." Mām ekam. Because he has become too much bewildered, He doesn't say anybody else. Mām ekam, word to the mūrkhas . . . Śaraṇaṁ vraja. isme kya mushkil hai. what is the difficulty in this. sab Bhagavad-gītā padhne wale hain, sara duniya. jab Bhagavad-Gita pe charcha hota hai to bolte hain kahan sikhaya hai " mam ekam ". everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā. when the discussion on Bhagavad-gītā happens then they say where is it told " mam ekam "

Indian man: adhikansh jo lecture dete hain wo Gītā pe dete hain... Most of them give lectures on Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupada: jante hi nahi hain. ye spasht baat hai they don't know. this is very clear. " Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ " (BG 9.11). wo samajhte hain Krishna kuch bol sakta hai hum bhi bol sakte hain. ye hai mudha. " param bhava ajananto " kuch jante hi nahin. kya bolenge. bhaktosi jo janta hai wo bol sakta hai. kooi sadharan nahi bol sakta hai. kyu time waste karta hai. aaplog Bhagavad-gītā se non-violence... to beginning word hai 'yuyutsava' uska kya meaning hai. Boliye. ... usko ulta seedha udane se phir Gītā kya bola, boliye apka... they think if Krishna can speak something then we can also speak something. these are fools. they don't know anything, what will they speak. one who knows can speak. no common man without proper knowledge can speak. why do they waste time. you all from the Bhagavad-Gita the word non-violence... so the beginning word is 'yuyutsava' what is the meaning of this word, tell me. ... extract some meaning from it then what does Gita say, tell me your... Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā? The beginning, the first line, is yuyutsavaḥ. Where is nonviolence? isiliye main bol raha tha ek line bhi nahi samajhta hai aur Bhagavad-gītā pe lecture. that is why I was telling you that they don't understand even a single line and give lectures on Gītā. "tatha dehantara praptir".

Indian man (6): How can you fight a war and then be nonviolent at the same time?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (6): How is it possible to be nonviolent . . .

Prabhupāda: Why you want nonviolence?

Indian man (6): They are talking so much about nonviolence . . .

Prabhupāda: Just like here is a monkey. Is it not violence sometimes to drive it then? There will be attack, and you have to protect yourself. This world is not like that, that there is no . . . it is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not . . . you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. chor-daku aata hai na zabardasti. aap chahte hain chor-daku hamara ghar me aaye aur loot lein. the thieves and dacoits come forcibly. you want that the thief and dacoit come to your house and take away everything. How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.

Indian man (6): What is meant by nonviolence?

Prabhupāda: It has no meaning.

Indian man (6): It has no meaning?

Prabhupāda: Simply imagination, that's all.

Indian man: humlog ko to non-violence ka arth bataya jata hai ki aaplog apni taraf se kisi ke upar oppressive mat hoiye. defend karna hamara kartavya hai. we are told the meaning of non-violence that from your side don't be oppressive on anyone. to defend is our duty.

Prabhupada: defend jab karenge tab apko violence chahiye. when do you defend yourself when you want violence

Indian man: hum to usko non-violence hi maante hain. we consider it as non-violence only

Prabhupada: aap bhi to... rakhte hain. zyada badmashi karne se goli se uda do. to ye violence aap utha nahi sakte hain. uska proper use kar sakte hain. you also... keep. if he is very violent then shoot him. you cannot lift it. but you can make proper use of it. This is the meaning. You cannot abolish it. That is not possible.

Indian man (7): What is to world Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolence or . . .

Prabhupāda: I do not wish to discuss nonviolence. we are talking of philosophy, that you cannot stop violence. That is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa says, mām anusmara yudhya ca (BG 8.7).

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yudhya ca. yudh bhi chahiye. you want war also.

Indian man: is yudh shabd ka matlab... what is the meaning of this word 'war'

Prabhupada: aur ab kya yudh ka arth yudh hai. yudh ka matlab mane yudh, ladai. isme aap kyu change karna chahte hain. now what the meaning of war is war. battle. why do you want to change it.

Indian man: As it is.

Prabhupada: yehi to speciality hai. this is the speciality.

Indian man: yudh ka matlab kya? what is the meaning of war?

Prabhupada: yudh ka matlab yudh hai. usme kyo... the meaning of war is war. why do you... in that

Indian man: yudh ka ye arth hai to karm ka. if the meaning of war is this then what about duty.

Prabhupada: aur kuch kaho. word to hai. to yudh word ye shabd ko laga hai, iska mane yudh hai.usko phir... se nikalne ka kya zaroorat hai. ... se nikala ja sakta hai jahan clear nahi hai. There is some word, the meaning is not clear, then you can suggest that, "Meaning may be like this." But when it is clear, there is no, I mean to say, chance of interpreting.

Indian man (1): As, for example, vicāra, those such words which requires some clarification or . . . these can be interpreted like . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, when it is clear, why it should be interpreted?

Indian man (1): No, for other words . . .

Prabhupāda: Other words other words chod dijiye iske bare me boliye, forget the other words, talk about this that when it is clear—yudhya ca—then why should you interpret? The example is there in the Sanskrit grammar. Just like . . . the example is given, where interpretation required. It is said, example is given, like gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa-pāli, that "There is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pali on the Ganges." So then you can ask that "Gaṅgā is water. How there is a neighborhood?" Then the interpretation: "Not on the Ganges water but on the bank."

Indian man (1): then interpretation.

Prabhupāda: Then interpretation. But when it is clear that "On the bank of the Ganges there is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pali," then where is interpretation? Interpretation will be required when the meaning is not clear. Otherwise, if the meaning is clear, that is ustadi, smartness, to interpret. But in Bhagavad-gītā, in the first line, the word is used, yuyutsvaḥ, "desiring to fight." So desiring to fight, they assembled; they must fight. So where is the question of interpretation? (aside) So prasādam ready or not?

Trivikrama: Yeah. About 6:30, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I will speak to you. So kal aaiye sab log. please come tomorrow all of you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every day there'll be darśana, five to six. Every day.

Indian man (7): hall aapko suit nahi hota hai? does the hall not suit you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Indian man (8): There is a big hall here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a hall over here.

Indian man (8): There is a big hall here where a lot of people can come, because lot of people want to listen you.

Prabhupāda: ye aaplog arrange kariye to hum aayenge. you all arrange it then I will come (conversation not clear)

Indian man (8): It is only fifty steps, hundred feet, yes, not more than that.

Prabhupāda: aaplog ko jaise chahiye waise ho jayega. how you people want it will be arranged lke that (conversation not clear)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's raining again.

Prabhupāda: You have shown our books to these gentlemen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a few books here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. You can show some of them.

Indian man: kirtan bahut accha hai. kirtan is very good.

Prabhupada: Call him. You can perform kīrtana here.

Indian man: hall me bahut accha rahega. it will be very nice in the hall

Prabhupada: So go to the hall and begin kīrtana immediately. You can go.

Indian man (8): Tomorrow. Tomorrow evening, five till six. So you can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (1): Right now, right now. Gurujī said we can go to the . . . (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (chuckling) You can go and have kīrtana.

Indian man (7): But we can start here also.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (7): Here for some time . . .

Indian man: to aaj yahin hoga. so today it will be here only.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. (kīrtana begins) (break) Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). (1.11.27) asakti sikhane ke liye bhagvan khud aa rahe hain. " yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata " ye dharm ka glanir hai. jab Bhagvan se asakti chut jaye to glanir. " tadatmanam srijamyaham " ... " paritranaya sadhunam vinashaya ca dushkritam " koi sune to uska jivan safal ho jaye. pehli baat to bhagvan ko bol diya nirakar, bus. ye jo bhagvan ka roop hai, ye kalpana hai. wo jo... bolta hai na... bhagvan ka... uska aakar nahi hai. to teach attachment God is descending on this planet. " yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata " this is the glanir of religion. when you become detached from god then glanir. if one hears then his life will be successful. first of all you call god as formless, that's all. this form of god, this is imagination. that which he tells that God has no form. Bhagvan bolta hai sabka pita hai " sarva yonisu kaunteya murtaya sambhavanti yah tasam brahma yonir aham bija pradah pita " to mai hoon aur hamara pita ka aakar hai, hamara aakar hai, to kya aasman se gir gaya. aisa ho sakta hai ki jahan... hai humko pita ka aakar mil gaya. iska gadhapan hai.jo Bhagvan sabke pita hai. hamara aakar hai aur unka aakar nahi hai. ye to sab aapka idhar hi chal raha hai. ye koi baat hota hai kya. ... ko dekha nahi, aapka dada-pardada ko dekha nahi to kya wo nirakar tha. agar kaha jaye ki tumhara jo pardada tha uska aakar nahi tha to aap manenge. suar-gadha ka aakaar hai, Bhagvan ka aakar nahi hai. uska kya jawab hai boliye. aap ka 30 varsh. bhagvan nirakar kaise ho sakta hai. uska jawab dijiye. God says that he is seed-giving father of all entities. so I exist and my father has a form. I have a form. did it fall from the sky. it can so happen that where... i have got the form of my father. it is his foolishness. that lord who is the father of all living entities, I have a form and He is formless. all this is going on here. does this have any sense. ... haven't seen, you have not seen your ancestors so does it mean that they are formless. suppose it is said that you forefathers did not have a form then will you accept. a pig-ass has got a form, God does not have a form. what is this understanding. how does the god then become formless. do you have an answer for this. Bhagvan bolta hai " man mana bhava mad bhakto " sab hamara upar man lagao. jab uska aakar nahi hai to kaise man lagaye... jo aakar hi nahi hai to kaise hum change karenge. isliye Bhagvan bola kleso 'dhikataras tesam avyaktasakta chetasam " wo to nirakar ka chintan nahi kar sakta hai aur jo zabardasti karna chahte hain to unko khali klesa hi labh aur kuch labh nahi. nirakar... yogi log nirakar par dhyan nahi karte hain jo asal yogi. Bhagvan Vishnu murti... " dhyanavas tad gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah " bhagvan khud bolte hain " yoginam api sarvesam mad gatenantar antaratmanah " ye sab baat hai to nirakar ka dhyan kaise hoga. boliye. klesa, dhyan nahi hoga, klesha. " man mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru ". kaun sunta hai, sab apna-apna ustadi. jo shastra me Bhagvan bola hai usko mano. " sravanam kirtanam visnu " yehi padatti hai. "sravanam kirtanam visnu smaranam pada sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma nivedanam" god says " man mana mad bhakto " fix your mind on me. when He does not have a form then how can we fix our mind... when He does not have a form then how can we change. that is why god said " kleso adhikataras tesam avyaktasakta chetasam " he cannot meditate on the formless and if he wants to forcilby meditate then he gets only suffering, there is no other gain. formless... the yogis do not meditate on the formless. one who is a real yogi god is vishnu idol... " dhyanavas tad gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginah " god himself declares " yoginam api sarvesam mad gatenantar antaratmanah " all these are facts so how can one meditate on the formless. tell me. suffering, cannot meditate, suffering " man mana mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru " who listens, everyone tries to show their supremacy. what god has said in the scriptures accept that. " sravanam kirtanam visnu " this is the practice. " sravanam kirtanam visnu smaranam pada sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma nivedanam " ... asakti " adhau shraddha tatha sadhu sanga atha bhajana kriya tato anartha nivritti syat tatho nishta rucis tatha athasaktis " pehle to shraddha aur shraddha ka arth hota hai Krsnadas Kaviraj Goswami vyakhyan karte hain " shraddha sabde-viswasa kahe sudrdha niscaya krsna bhakti kaile sarva karma krta haya " aaplog bangla samjhte hain? " adhau shraddhya " pehle shuru honi chahiye shraddha, wo shraddha kya cheez hai. shraddha to Krsndas Kaviraj Goswami " shraddha sabde viswas kahe sudrdha niscaya " jab vishwas sudrda niscaya to uska naam hai shraddha. jo Bhagvan bol rahe hain " sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam sharanam vrajah " isko jo theek se maan lega, ye... bol rahe hain, yehi theek hai, iske alava nahi. aur is baat me hi hamara kuch viswas hai, Bhagvan ki seva karne se hamara sab kaam theek ho jayega, ye shraddha ka arth hai. wo Bhagvan bakne do, hum to apna kaam chala rahe hain, nirakar. ... attachment " adhau shraddha tatha sadhu sanga atha bhajana kriya tato anartha nivritti syat tatho nishta rucis tatha athasaktis " first comes faith and the meaning of faith Krsnada Kaviraj Goswami describes " shraddha sabde-viswasa kahe sudhrdha niscaya krsna bhakti kaile sarva karma krta haya " do you all undesrstand bengali? " adhau shraddha " first must begin the faith , what is that faith. faith as described by Krsndas Kaviraj Goswami " shraddha sabde viswas kahe sudrdha niscaya " when the belief is firmly fixed then it is called faith. what the god is saying "sarva dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja" one who properly accepts this , this... is telling, this is the right way, nothing other than this. and we have faith in this concept only. when we do devotional service to god then our life will be perfect. this is the meaning of faith. let the self-proclaime-god say anything, we are doing our duty, formless. usko... adau shraddha, ye bhagvan jo bol rahe hain bikul theek bol rahe hain. phir shraddha badhana chahiye. jaise koi business karna chahte hain to mai ye business karoonga, ye shraddha. phir next stage hai jo business me lage hue hain uske sat milna-julna kis tarah se karta hai, hai na. " adau shraddha tatha sadhu sanga " aur sadhu ka Bhagavad-gītā me kya arth hai " bhajate mam ananya bhak sadhur eva samantavyah "... jo bhagvad bhajan nahi kiya wo to chor hai. jo bhagavad bhajan kar raha hai uska association karo. aur to sadhu nahi hai, dadi rakhne se sadhu nahi hota hai. bhagvan bol rahe hain bhajate mam ananya bhak ". ye sab vichar hai shastra me aur shastra chod kar banana chahta hai ustad. itna hi labh hoga ek flag ban jayega ki ye admi bahut dharmik hai. dharma-dhwaji, dhwaja hota hai, ek dhwaja leke hum bada dharmik hain. aur bhagvan khud bolte hain " yah shastra vidhim utsrjya vartate kama karatah na sa siddhim avapnoti na sukham na param gatim " shastra me nirdesh jo hai usko chod karke man mafik kaam karta hai usko kabhi siddhi nahi milta hai. " na siddhim na sukham na param gatim ", param gatim ka to baat hi chodo. to bhagvan khud aakarke bata rahe hain, seekha rahe hain kis tarah se... bhagvan kis tarah se aacharan kar rahe hain usko sadhu sanga, bhajan kriya, bhajan ka jo niyam hai aur phir anartha nivritti. phir jis karan se ye sab anartha hua hai uska nivritti. phir nishta, ruchi phir asakti, ye stage hai. ye sab stage me jane me... that... adau shraddha, this what god is telling is perfect knowledge. then we must increase our faith. suppose someone wants to do some business, he says I will do this business, this is faith. next step is those who are engaged in doing business to associate with them, how he does his duty, is it not. "adau shraddha tatha sadhu sanga" and what is the meaning of sadhu in Bhagavad-gītā " bhajate mam ananya-bhak sahur eva samantavyah " ... one who has not sung the glories of the lord is a thief. be in the association of those who are singing the glories of the lord. others are not sadhus, just by keeping a beard one does not become a saint. god is saying bhajate mam ananya-bhak. all these facts are there in the scriptures and people want to become supreme disregarding the scriptures. the only benefit will be that he will have one flag saying that this person is very religious. religious flag-bearer, there are flags, take one flag and declare that I am a very relgious. god himself is saying "yah shastra vistrim utsrjya vartate kama karatah na sa siddhim avapnoti na sukham na param gatim" abandoning the directions given in the scriptures they act whimsically. they will not obtain any happiness. " na siddhim na sukham na param gatim " forget about the supreme abode. So god himself descends to this planet and tells, teaches how one should... how god is conducting Himself for this association of saintly persons, performing devotional service, the principle of devotional service laid down and then finally cleansing of all the impurities. then the cleansing of all the causes of these impurities, then steadfastness, taste for the Holy name and then attachment to the Holy name, these are the stages of devotional service. to reach all these stages... basic requirement is faith. (end)