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680729 - Lecture Initiation - Montreal

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

680729IN-MONTREAL - July 29, 1968 - 28:48 Minutes

(Initiation of Bali-mardana dāsa)

Prabhupāda: Two brahmacārīs will be initiated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can come forward. Yes.

(break) . . . means the beginning, and the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because at the present moment we are merged into non–Kṛṣṇa consciousness . . .

(aside) Oh, this sound, down. No, in this.

Girl: Speaker.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, that speaker. Something outside.

Prabhupāda: All right, you . . . let your . . . beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means first of all faith. Ādau śraddhā: the beginning is faith. What is that faith? Faith means firm conviction that "If I become transcendentally engaged in the service of the Lord, then my life becomes successful."

This is called faith. And that conviction must be firm, not tottering faith. So when this faith is created, then actually the initiation begins. Otherwise initiation is not accepted. Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya (CC Madhya 22.62).

(break) When one is firmly convinced that "If I be engaged in the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa . . ." When we speak of Kṛṣṇa, we should know . . . speak of God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So this firm conviction is the beginning of initiation. The Bhagavad-gītā teaches this firm conviction gradually. And ultimately the Lord says, Kṛṣṇa says to Arjuna, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "My dear Arjuna, you give up all other engagement. Just be engaged in My service or be engaged in executing My orders." "Then what about other things?" Kṛṣṇa assures, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. If somebody thinks that, "If I give up all other engagements and simply be engaged in Your service, to carry out Your order, then what about my other engagements? I have got so many other duties. I am engaged in my family affairs, I am engaged in my social affairs, I am engaged in my country's affairs, community affairs, so many things, my . . . then what about those things?" Kṛṣṇa says that, "That I will see, how you can do it properly."

Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was a military man. So Kṛṣṇa said that "You give up all your engagements." That did not mean that Kṛṣṇa . . . Arjuna gave up his engagement as a military man. To give up all other engagements means to give up the engagements of your sense gratification. Instead of . . . at the present moment, with all our activities we are trying to gratify our senses. That's all. And surrender to Kṛṣṇa means the beginning of satisfying the senses of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. This is the definition of bhakti.

What is that bhakti? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). One has to become free from all designations. So long we are in the material conditional life, we have got various designations—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I am this," "I am that," so many designations. "I am nationalist," "I am Communist," "I am socialist," so many designations. So sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66) means you have to give up the designations. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Now I am thinking, "I am nationalist," "I am Communist," "I am American," "I am an Indian." So I have to give up these designations and what I have to think? There must be thinking. I am not stopping my thinking what I am. That is indicated in the Vedas: ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That aham, my identity, is not lost, but at the present moment I am thinking that "I am this," "I am that," but you have to think, you have to identify with Brahman, the Supreme Brahman.

And when you identify with the Supreme Brahman, that is your liberated stage. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. When you identify yourself with Brahman, then at once you become free from all these designative activities. Prasannātmā: "Oh, I have no more any duty in this material world." In this way, when you make further progress:

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

So when one, after being freed from all designation, when one is actually engaged in the activities of Brahman, that is called bhakti, or devotional service.

So initiation means to be engaged in that Brahman activities. How Brahman activities? The same example can be cited, that Arjuna remained active, engaged in the battlefield, but in the beginning his identification was with his country, family and so many other things. But later on, after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he identified himself with Kṛṣṇa. This identification with Kṛṣṇa means beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So ādau śraddhā (Brs 1.4.15), when one becomes firmly convinced that, "By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, or being engaged in the transcendental loving service of Kṛṣṇa, my life is successful, life will be successful," that is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or initiation. It is a stage. We have to go further and further till the stage of perfection. But initiation is the beginning. Ādau śraddhā. When one is firmly convinced, then he makes association with the devotees. Just like we have got this Society, International Society for Krishna Consciousness. We are picking up persons who desire to be Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is a Society.

So firm conviction, then association. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 23.14-15). Unless there is good association, you cannot be strong enough. In every field of activities you must have good association, either in business field, or if you want to be licentious, then you have to mix with persons who are drunkards. So association has got some strength. If you want to become scholars, then you have to associate with scholarly persons in the university. And if you want to be a thief, then you have to find out the association of the thieves. Similarly, if you want to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you have to find out persons who are Kṛṣṇa conscious. So firm conviction, then association.

After association, the next stage is regulative life for following the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This is called initiation. Or initiation from the very beginning, this is called dīkṣā. The Sanskrit term is called dīkṣā. Dīkṣā means . . . di, divya-jñānam, transcendental knowledge; and . . . ikṣā. Ikṣā means darśana, to see, or kṣapayati, explains. That is called dīkṣā. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga. First faith, then association, then beginning of regulative principles. And if one follows, then the next promotion is to the stage of anartha-nivṛtti, disappearance of all misgivings.

Just like in our association we don't allow four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex life, nonvegetarian diet, intoxication and gambling. So by following the regulative principles one becomes freed from all these sinful activities. He does not any more indulge in illicit sex life, he does not indulge in nonvegetarian diet, he does not indulge in intoxication and he does not indulge in gambling. That is called anartha-nivṛtti. Unless one is above these four kinds of anartha, or sinful activities, one cannot be fixed up. When one is freed from these four kinds of sinful activities, then he becomes fixed up. Ruci. Niṣṭhā, fixed up, and then ruci. Ruci means he increases the taste.

Then āsakti. Āsakti means attachment. Then ecstasy, bhāva. Then the last stage is that he becomes a lover of Kṛṣṇa, and that loving stage of Kṛṣṇa, there are different stages: śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. The highest stage is the loving affairs between Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs. Of course, that is postgraduate stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that stage is considered to be the most perfectional stage, how to love Kṛṣṇa in the bhāva, or in the position, of a gopī.

So two boys who are now ready to be initiated, my request to all, especially to boys who are just going to be initiated, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is authorized because, even grant . . . taking it for granted that it has begun from Kṛṣṇa, then it is at least five thousand years old. Kṛṣṇa appeared on this planet five thousand years ago. So if you take history of any religious or any cultural program within this world, no religion, no cultural program is older than 2,000 years or 2,500 years. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, even according to history, it is five thousand years old, the oldest than any principles of religion or culture.

And if you go above historical references, then it is coming down from millions and millions of years past, because it was first instructed, as we understand from the Bhagavad-gītā, that it was first instructed to Sūrya. Imaṁ vivasvate proktam (BG 4.1): "I first of all spoke this science to Vivasvān, Sūrya." Sūrya means sun-god. So nobody can trace out history when sun-god took the lessons, but we can have little information from Manu-saṁhitā, because Manu's age, Vivasvān . . . this age is called Vaivasvata Manu. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that first of all this initiation was given by Kṛṣṇa to Vaivasvata, and he instructed his son, whose name is Vaivasvata Manu. So Vaivasvata Manu, by calculation we can understand forty millions of years ago.

So this is not a new system that we are introducing or manufacturing by our concocted imagination, but it is authorized, coming down by disciplic succession from time immemorial. It may be that in this country it is being introduced for the last two or three years, but this system is the oldest system, oldest system, just like we are nityaḥ śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ (BG 2.20). In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the soul is eternal and Purāṇa. Purāṇa means the oldest. Purāṇa. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is also said, advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyam purāṇa-puruṣam (Bs. 5.33).

So Kṛṣṇa is also the oldest. Either Kṛṣṇa or the living creatures, all of them are the oldest, because they have no death, no birth. There is no history. Na jāyate na mriyate (BG 2.20). Bhagavad-gītā says that the living entity, what to speak of God . . . they say: "God is dead." This is all nonsense. What to speak of God, even these living creatures, they are not dead. The death program is for this body, just like changing, changing the body, er, changing the dress. So if one changes one dress or apartment, that does not mean that he is dead. Similarly, if we change this body to another body . . . as we are changing our body constantly, every moment, similarly, if we change this body to another body, that does not mean death.

So death is not accepted in the Vedic literature. So either God or the living creature, nobody dies. Everyone is eternal, śāśvata purāṇa. Similarly, as we are the oldest and eternal, similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also the oldest and eternal. (break)

So initiation means now we are in the consciousness of this body, which is never eternal—temporary. So we are going to Kṛṣṇa consciousness means we are going to our eternal consciousness. We are changing from the temporary, bodily consciousness to the eternal consciousness. This is the sum and substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

And we invite all ladies and gentlemen to come to our classes. We hold our classes three days in a week—Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So everyone is welcome, and everyone can inquire and understand the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if one is fortunate enough to understand what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is, then his life will be perfect and successful.

(to initiates) Now you come forward.

(break) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Then again, one round sixt . . . er, one bead, sixteen names. Then second bead. In this way finish 108, come here. Begin from here, again come there. In this way, finish sixteen rounds. And so far offenses, I will explain later on and you will get paper. So what is your name?

Bill: Bill.

Prabhupāda: So your spiritual name is Bali Mardana dāsa. Take it. Just bow down. Nama . . .

Bali Mardana:

nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhūtale
śrīmate bhaktivedānta svāmin iti nāmine

(repeats twice more)

Prabhupāda: Thank you. Come on. Be happy. Bali Mardana dāsa. B-a-l-i m-a-r-d-a-n. Bali Mardana dāsa brahmacārī. Bali Mardana means Kṛṣṇa's name. Kṛṣṇa, as Vāmanadeva, He punished Bali Mahārāja by capturing his whole kingdom. Mardana means punishment. And after all, Bali Mahārāja became an authority, because he showed the example of surrendering everything, sarvātma-snapane, even his body. First of all he gave his kingdom.

Then, when it was not finished, then Kṛṣṇa demanded Vāmanadeva that "You have finished all your kingdom. Still you are debtor for one step, another. Where shall I keep another step?" So Bali Mahārāja said, "Yes. I have got still place on my head. You can place head on my . . . er . . . place Your step on my head." So he delivered his kingdom, his everything, at last his body, and Kṛṣṇa became purchased by him. And since then, Bali Mahārāja is one of the twelve authorities.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
(SB 6.3.20-21)

So Bali is . . . Bali Mardana does not mean that he was . . . because he was punished by Kṛṣṇa, he is not ordinary person; he is authority. So even a person punished by Kṛṣṇa becomes authority. Kṛṣṇa is so nice (chuckles). What to speak of a person who is directly loved by Kṛṣṇa, even one is punished by Kṛṣṇa, he becomes authority. So therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Bali Mardana. And Bali Mardana dāsa means Kṛṣṇa dāsa, one who is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Is that clear? Yes.

(break) (japa) (break) So that list you have not made, offenses, ten kinds of . . .?

Haṁsadūta: Not yet. No.

Prabhupāda: Why? You do that. They should be given that. You should avoid chanting, every one of you, ten kinds of offenses. The first offense is to decry the scriptures, Vedas. To accept authority of Vedas. Not to accept or decrying scriptures. Vedas means the book of transcendental knowledge. Not only Bhagavad-gītā, even Bible or Koran, they are also, although, Bhagavad-gītā . . . higher or secondary or primary, that is different.

But whenever there is information of God, that is scripture, recognized. So we are concerned with the Vedas. So anyway, other scripture which is giving information of God scientifically or accepted by persons, that is also Vedas. So one should not blaspheme the Vedas. This is first offense, to blaspheme.

And satāṁ nindā, those who are preaching the message of God, they should not be blasphemed. And then never interpret in the scriptures or in the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa. And sāmya śubha-kriyā mati-pramādaḥ. (Padma Purāṇa) This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa should not be executed as something auspicious activities. People generally go to church, to temple, to counteract their sinful activities.

Somebody thinks actually that, "If I go to church or temple, if I confess before God, then my sinful activities will be counteracted." But hari-nāma should not be taken in that way. If we think that, "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore I am free to commit all kinds of nonsense," then no. Then we will not be able to make progress. Sāmya śubha-kriyā mati-pramādaḥ.

And nāmna artha-vāda. And while chanting, to think of ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), Moha, this world as "mine," "I am this body," and without attention, to inattentive, to become inattentive . . . while chanting, you must hear. Hare Kṛṣṇa—you must give attention to hear. In this way there is paper. You will take from your Godbrothers ten kinds of offenses. If you avoid the offenses, then you make very good progress of chanting. You get good result.

The first stage is chanting with offenses. That is natural, because nobody is expert. The second stage is without offenses. When one can chant without offenses, then he becomes liberated. And the third stage is to achieve in the transcendental platform in the loving service of the Lord. So this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that it will gradually elevate you to the highest position.

Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

(prayers for fire sacrifice) (Garuḍa Purāṇa)

oṁ apavitraḥ

Prabhupāda: pavitro vā (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: sarvāvasthāṁ (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: gato (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: api (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: yaḥ smaret (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: puṇḍarīk (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: akṣaṁ (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: sa (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: bāhya (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: abhyantaraṁ (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: śuciḥ (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: śrī viṣṇu (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: śrī viṣṇu (devotees repeat)

Prabhupāda: śrī viṣṇu (devotees repeat)

(break) (end)