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681129 - Lecture BG 02.13-17 - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

681129BG-LOS ANGELES - November 29, 1968 - 108:20 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) (devotees offer obeisances)

So we have begun another new book, Nectar of Devotion.

So one tape . . . where is . . . you can play that?

Govinda dāsī: I forgot to bring it.

Prabhupāda: Why you forget?

Govinda dāsī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I told you. I told you that we shall play, and still you forgot?

Govinda dāsī: Well, I didn't . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Why do you forget that? All right, read Bhagavad-gītā.

Where is Bhagavad-gītā? (pause)

(aside) If possible, you can make shirts of flannel so that you keep warm. The same shirt, Punjabi, as it was brought from India? Same pattern shirt. Yes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā dāsa is making a shirt. Is that the kind?

Harṣarāṇī: We're making kurtās, but they're thin. But we're going to get . . . we'll make flannel also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that in cold also you'll . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were going to wear long underwear too.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You must keep yourself well protected. Or you can have some this color pullover. That's also nice. But here I think that one shirt will do.

Yes. Read it.

Devotee: Thirteen. "As the embodied soul continually passes in this body from boyhood to youth and then to old age, similarly the soul also passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Purport: "Since every living entity is an individual soul, each is changing his body at every moment, manifesting sometimes as a child, sometimes as a youth and sometimes as an old man, although the same spirit soul is there and does not undergo any change."

"The individual soul finally changes the body itself in transmigrating from one to another. And since it is sure to have another body in the next birth, either material or spiritual, there was no cause for lamentation by Arjuna on account of death, either over Bhīṣma or over Droṇa, for whom he was so concerned."

Prabhupāda: Now, this simple fact, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), the change of body is taking place every moment. Every moment. Just like this child. The child, if there is some measuring instrument, if you measure this child today, tomorrow you'll find the child has grown, or changed the body. That is a medical science also. The body is changing.

The body is changing, but the soul is there. Just like I had my childhood body, boyhood body, and now I am in a different body, but I remember all the activities of my childhood. Therefore I am permanent and body is changing.

This simple truth, what is the difficulty for the people to understand this simple truth? The body is changing, but I am not changing. I am eternal. Therefore I am not this body. I am not changing. This simple truth, the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, the Kṛṣṇa has begun instructing Arjuna . . .

After Arjuna has accepted his discipleship, the first instruction is this, that "You are lamenting on the body of your grandfather and teacher regarding fighting, but your grandfather, or the soul . . ." which is already explained that, "You as soul, I am as the supreme soul, or all these kings and soldiers who have assembled, they are also souls. They existed in the past. Now they have changed their body. Again they will change their body, but they will exist." This is the instruction. The body is changing, and the vivid example? That in this life you are changing body.

So what is the difficulty of understanding this simple truth that the soul is different from the body? And so far eternity of the soul, that is also, there is proof. Because in childhood I was present, in boyhood I was present, in youthhood I was present, and in this old age I am still present.

So naturally it is concluded that when I change this body, I exist.

When I change this body . . . this body will be changed. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the parents of this child . . . now she is, say, one feet long only. When this child will grow five feet long, the father and mother, will they cry, "Oh, my child! Where is my child, that one-feet long?" He knows. The parents know that, "My child is there, but changed the body." This is a fact. Similarly, "You are lamenting on the body of your grandfather and teacher. Even they change their body, what is the cause of lamentation? They will exist."

This is the beginning of instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, or spiritual instruction. Unless one understands this simple fact, that the soul is different from this body, the soul is eternal, the body is temporary, changing . . . because without understanding this, there is no spiritual education. A false education. If one identifies with this body, there is no understanding of spiritual knowledge.

So the yogīs, they are trying to come to this point by meditation, "Whether I am this body or not." Meditation means that. First meditation, concentration of the mind, the different kinds of sitting posture, that helps me to concentrate my mind. And if I concentrate my mind, meditation, that "Am I this body?"

Then if I am not this body, "Where I am in this body?" Then if he analyzes, he'll find himself within this heart. Within this heart the soul is also there, and the Supersoul is also there. Kṛṣṇa is also there. So the perfectional stage of yoga is to see the Supersoul and understand oneself that "I am individual soul."

So that perfectional stages we are immediately offering, that you try to see Kṛṣṇa always, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The yogīs are trying to reach a platform after so much exercise of the body. We are giving that thing immediately, that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious." You are eternal part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the Supersoul. Why should you take so much botheration to find Him within? He's without also. He's all-powerful. He can accept your offerings, and you can take prasādam. This is practical yoga.

So we are not beginning from the gross stage. The Bhagavad-gītā, although it is A-B-C-D of spiritual instruction, it begins from that stage, which stage the jñānīs, the philosophers, and the yogīs, they are trying to reach. But we have no time. In this age by yoga practice, to come to this stage, that "I am not this body . . ." Ask any student who are practicing yoga, so-called meditation, they are inclined to this body. They are trying to exercise this body, and they think that this is the final. No.

Simple truth, very simple truth: Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme authority, presenting very simply, that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). As in this body there are different changes, similarly the ultimate change is called death. But the spirit soul, as he's existing within this body in spite of all changes.

Similarly, the spirit soul will continue to exist even after the final change of this body. This simple truth. Try to understand this. This is the basic principle of further progress. If one does not understand this point of view, there is no progress. This is A-B-C-D, that "I am not this body."

Read on.

Devotee: "Rather, he should rejoice at their changing bodies from old to new ones."

Prabhupāda: Now here is another argument that, "Why you are going to lament on the body of your grandfather? He's grand old man. If he does not die, if you do not kill him, how long he will live? So you kill him or not kill him, he will die. And you should be rather joyful, because your grandfather is going to have again . . ." this is only for argument, ". . . again have a new body."

The . . . when Caitanya Mahāprabhu met Chand Kazi . . . I think I have explained this story many times. Chand Kazi was Muhammadan. So you know the story that Caitanya Mahāprabhu started civil disobedience, disregarded the section, I mean to say, imposed by the magistrate Chand Kazi that "You cannot hold the saṅkīrtana. The people are disturbed," just like you are being threatened by the police. So this is not new thing. This thing is going on from the very beginning, even Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu disregarded the notice. "Don't care for this Kazi. Go on."

So . . . and when people . . . He was very popular, but we are not popular. (laughter) Caitanya Mahāprabhu (laughs) was Kṛṣṇa. He had attraction. He was, although a boy of twenty years old, He had many followers. He ordered, "Oh, Kazi has ordered to stop. Now I order that hundreds of thousands of people shall assemble this night, and we shall go to the Kazi's house."

This is civil disobedience. So people agreed, and there were hundreds of thousands of mṛdaṅgas and hundreds of thousands of people, and they chanted and crossed the whole street, don't care for any police action. And the Kazi saw, "Oh, it is a mass movement." He was afraid. You see?

When any movement is taken by the people, then the government becomes afraid. Just like the mariana movement? Now there is no more legal action. Government cannot, because all people are taking to mariana. You see? What is that? Mariana or marijuana?

Devotees: Marijuana.

Prabhupāda: Marijuana. So you make this marijuana taken by all people, then police will be afraid. You see? They'll not dare to stop you.

So when there was talk with Kazi . . . Chand Kazi was learned man. So first of all Caitanya Mahāprabhu challenged, "My dear uncle . . ." He established the relation to pacify Caitanya. "My Nimāi, Nimāi . . ." He called just like boy. He was boy. "Nimāi, oh, Your grandfather Nīlāmbara Cakravartī, I call him cācā." Cācā means uncle.

The Muslims, they call . . . in India these Britishers created feelings between Hindus and Muslim, but otherwise the Hindus and Muslims are living since eight centuries. So in the village they lived peacefully, and the Hindus call the Muslim cācā, and the Muslim call the Hindu . . . the Hindus call the Muslim . . . in this way they make some friendly relationship. There was no ill feeling. Even they will invite, the Hindus will invite.

In our childhood we have seen, in marriage ceremony or in some religious ceremony also, some Muslim friends were invited, and they were received. Similarly, Muslims also invite some Hindus. They'll make separate . . . my father, he used to be guest of a Muslim gentleman. He was his customer.

So he used to make separate arrangement my father, a brāhmaṇa attendant, supplying all foodstuff. So there was no . . . and he was coming to our house, so he, accompanied with his servant Muslims, we used to supply his foodstuff. They were cooking in their own way. Of course, no meat was allowed. But there were friendship.

And while departing, he would give us some money, four rupees, five rupees, in the hands of all our brothers and sister and offer respect to my mother as "Auntie." These feelings were there. This ill feeling was created by the Britishers. That when they saw that Gandhi is improving the Hindu-Muslim situation, they created a, what is called, a split. Anyway, that is political.

So this Chand Kazi informed Caitanya Mahāprabhu, "Nimāi, I call Your grandfather, Your mother's father, as my cācā, as my uncle. So in that way Your mother is my sister according to our village relationship, and You are my nephew. So how is that a nephew is so much angry upon his uncle? Is it not good?"

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu could understand that he has come down. He has now become uncle. So He said: "Yes, My dear uncle, I know that. It is not My duty to be angry with you, but how is that—I am your nephew, I have come to your home, and you went upstairs, you did not receive Me? So anyway, what is done is done. Forget." So then they sat down and talked.

The first challenge was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's that, "My dear uncle, what is your this religion that you're eating father and mother?" That was His first challenge. And the Kazi said: "What is that? What do You mean by that?" "You are eating a bull and cow. Cow is your mother. You are drinking milk, therefore she is your mother. And the bull is helping you, producing your food, maintaining. As the father maintains you and mother gives you milk, and do you think it is good to kill them?"

So Kazi, he was also learned. "Oh, Your Vedic scripture also, there is cow sacrifice." Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said: "No, that is not killing. That was giving a new body to show the strength of the Vedic mantra." A cow was sacrificed in the fire, and by mantra, by chanting of the mantra, the cow will come out with a new body, young body. That was not killing.

So similarly, here also, Kṛṣṇa is giving the same argument that, "You are lamenting on your grandfather. He has got old body, but if he is killed in this battle, he'll have a new, fresh new body. So you should be joyful. Why are you lamenting?" So this argument was forwarded by Kṛṣṇa, that . . .

Now, just like this child. This child can hope many things. He has got immense duration of life now beginning, and what hope I have got? I am now this old body, say five years or ten years more. So I cannot expect, hope, anything more than this child. So Kṛṣṇa is giving that, "There is no question of lamentation for your grandfather. Your grandfather is going to have a new lease of life. Why should you be sorry?" So this argument He is forwarding, but nobody will agree to this argument.

Yes. Go on.

Devotee: "Such changes of body are meant for varieties of enjoyment or suffering by the living entity according to one's own work in this life. So Bhīṣma and Droṇa, being noble souls, were surely going to have either spiritual bodies in the next life, or at least life in godly bodies."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Now, so far your grandfather is concerned, Bhīṣmadeva, he is one of the greatest devotees. So as soon as he gives up this body, he's going to Vaikuṇṭha." Same example as I told you the other day, that muni-putra . . . mā jīva mā jīva muni-putraka ciraṁ jīva rāja-putra: "Oh, the son of saintly person, you don't live. And oh, the son of a king, you live forever."

Why? Because the son of a saintly person, he is undergoing austerities, penances, disciplinary activities. So his life is . . . his future is so bright that he's going to Vaikuṇṭha. And this, the son of king, he's simply indulging in sense gratification. So he's going to hell. So the person who is destined to go to kingdom of God, the sooner he dies is better for him. And this person, one who is going to hell, the later he dies it is good for him, because as soon as he dies the hell is prepared for him.

A similarly, "Why should you lament for your grandfather and teacher? They are so highly elevated, spiritually elevated. Death will take place so long this body is there. Now they have come to fight as a matter of duty. So there is no lamentation." This is the instruction Kṛṣṇa is giving.


Devotee: "In either case there was no cause for lamentation. Any man who has perfect knowledge of the constitution of the individual soul, the Supersoul and nature, both material and spiritual, is called a dhīra, or a most sober man."

Prabhupāda: Dhīra. Dhīra means sober, is not disturbed. A person who is not disturbed by paltry causes, he's called dhīra. Another example of dhīra is given by poet Kālidāsa. He was a great poet, mundane poet. So he said that dhīra is one who is not disturbed even in the presence of disturbance.

When there is no disturbance, one may not be disturbed, but in the presence of disturbance, one who is not disturbed, he is called dhīra. The cause of disturbance . . . just like a person trained in restriction of sex life, so when he's perfect, even there is cause of sex impetus, he'll not be disturbed. That is the . . . called dhīra. So he is describing that "These persons are highly elevated. You are also My friend. Why you are disturbed in this way? That does not look well."

Go on.

Devotee: "Such a man is never deluded by the change of bodies by the living entity."

Prabhupāda: Yes. A man is crying, "Oh, my father is dead," or "My friend is dead, my . . ." so on, so on, crying. But one who is dhīra, he knows, "What is this death? He has changed his body, so there is no question of lamentation." So how much spiritual education required to come to this point.

Yes, go on.

Devotee: "O son of Kuntī, the non-permanent appearance of heat and cold, happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer season. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG 2.14)

Prabhupāda: Now the question is that, "Yes, I understand that my grandfather is spirit soul and this body is material. Still, by nature I'll be unhappy if my grandfather is killed and my teacher is killed. I'll be unhappy." So Kṛṣṇa is instructing Arjuna that this kind of unhappiness, distress, is this world. You cannot avoid it. These are necessary distresses.

The example He's giving that severe cold. In the winter season, in the month of January or some month, the winter is very severe, intolerable. Sometimes somewhere it is below 30 degrees zero. But what is to be done? The people in such part of the world who live . . . just like in Canada it goes sometimes 30 degree below zero. Does it mean that they'll close their offices and work and everything? No. Everything is going on as usual. One has to tolerate. That's all.

In India also, in India and other parts of the eastern countries, just like Arabia, Iraq or . . . during summertime, the temperature is 135. You cannot imagine 135. In India we have experienced temperature . . . I have experienced up to 118 degree. Not always, unusually. But 110 degree is usual during summertime, 110 degree. Usual temperature. So does it mean . . . the scorching heat, you cannot get out on the street. But still, one has to go to office, one has to go to work. There are some cases of heat stroke. Still, nobody can stop his duty.

"Similarly, even if you think that by discharging your duty as a warrior, as a kṣatriya, your grandfather will be killed or . . . of course, there is no cause of lamentation, he'll get another new body. But even if you think . . . if your bodily concept is so strong, if you are sorry, so you have to, I mean to say, tolerate, just one has to tolerate extreme heat and extreme cold."

There is no cause of crying, "Oh, there is extreme heat, extreme heat." What you'll do? That is nature's law. Extreme heat—everyone is cooking. Nobody says: "Oh, today is extreme heat. I cannot cook." No. Everybody is cooking, although there is suffering. Similarly, there is extreme cold, but everyone is taking bath in the Ganges. Nobody says: "Oh, I'll not take bath."

So duty has to be done. There may be some suffering, temporary. Even though . . . Kṛṣṇa never says: "Oh, My dear Arjuna, you are My friend. All right, you are feeling so much sorry. All right, I shall do it for you. You sit down, silent." No. Kṛṣṇa never says that. "You have to do it." Although He says that, "This battle is arranged by Me. They're already killed. Nobody is going back. Still, you have to do it."

So our duty, persons who are Kṛṣṇa consciousness, engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they should always know that everything is to be done by Kṛṣṇa. We cannot do anything without Kṛṣṇa's sanction. But still, we have to do our own duty. Not that, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa will do everything. Therefore we shall not try for a storefront or we shall not go to see this man or . . . Kṛṣṇa . . ." No. That is lethargy.

You have to do your own duty. But result, depend on Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You don't be sorry if there is failure, you don't be unhappy if there is success, uh, you don't be too much, I mean to say, jubilant if there is success. Everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. This is the attitude of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They have to do their own duty, never mind whether it is suffering or happiness. It doesn't matter.

Devotee: "O best among men, the person who is not disturbed by happiness and distress, and is steady in both, is certainly eligible for liberation." (BG 2.15)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the sign, characteristics or symptom, of a person who is going to be liberated in this life. He has to do his duty. So far we are concerned, we have accepted Kṛṣṇa consciousness duty, so we have to execute our duties faithfully and seriously. Then it is sure Kṛṣṇa will give us the desired result.

A nice example is given—just like a girl is married to a boy. Generally, girls desire a child. So if she, after the marriage, if she immediately wants a child, that is not possible. But because she is married, and if she serves faithfully her husband, her husband is pleased and there is love, in due course of time, there will be child. Why there is hesitation? There will be child.

Similarly, we have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If we discharge our duties faithfully, then in due course of time, Kṛṣṇa will give the desired result. Don't be hesitant. Don't be doubtful. It is sure. Kṛṣṇa says that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9): "Anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness perfectly, for him, after leaving this body, he's coming to Me." This is His assurance. So we haven't got any doubt, Kṛṣṇa has assured.

So let us do our duty perfectly, as far as possible. We cannot execute anything perfectly in presence of Kṛṣṇa, because He is infinite, we are finite. Our energy, our talent, everything is finite. But if we try our best, then bhāva-grāhī-janārdana. Kṛṣṇa sees only how much sincere I am, how much sincerely I'm executing the duties entrusted upon me. That's all. Otherwise it is not in our power to serve Kṛṣṇa perfectly. That is not . . . because we are very teeny. But be assured that the desired result will come if we act sincerely, to the point.


Devotee: "Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance and of the eternal there is no cessation. Seers have concluded this by studying the nature of both." (BG 2.16)

Purport: "There is no endurance of the changing body. That the body is changing every moment by the actions and reactions of different cells is admitted by modern medical science, and thus growth and old age are taking place."

"But the spiritual soul exists permanently, remaining the same in all changing circumstances of the body and mind. That is the difference between matter and spirit. By nature the body is ever-changing and the soul is eternal. This conclusion is established by all classes of seers of the truth, impersonalists and personalists."

Prabhupāda: This is . . . so far the constitution of the spirit is concerned, it is eternal. That is accepted by all philosophers, personalist and impersonalist. The only difference is that the impersonalist says that after liberation, after getting freed from this bodily contamination, the spirit soul mixes with the Supreme Soul, all-pervading, without any individual existence.

Just like the same example, that the small sky within the pitcher. When the pitcher is broken, the small sky within the pitcher mixes with the big sky. The Vaiṣṇava philosopher says that the small sky is individual. It mixes with the big sky, but it keeps its individuality.

The example is given in this connection: Just like a green bird entering a green tree. So when the bird enters the tree, nobody can find out where is the bird, because the leaves of the tree are green and the bird is also green. Nobody can trace out. But that does not mean the bird has lost its individuality. The individuality is there.

Just like you see one airplane is flying in the air, and when it goes too far, it appears that it has disappeared. It seems to us that there is no more that airplane. It has mixed with the sky. But actually it is not. It is still there, individual existence. It is my ignorance that I see that it is no more separate; it has mixed with the sky. Just like in the daytime we don't find any star in the sky. Due to the dazzling sunshine, we cannot see any stars. At night, we can see millions of stars there are.

Similarly, that is the impersonalism and personalism. One whose knowledge is not perfect, they think imperson, everything homogeneous. And one whose knowledge is perfect . . . vedas also confirm it . . . just like in the Īśopaniṣad, there is a verse in which it is stated that, "Please withdraw Your effulgence so that I can see Your real face" (Īśo mantra 15).

Just like the sun globe, you cannot see it perfectly due to the dazzling sunshine. But the sun globe is there, and in the glow there are living entities, and there is a principal head man, I mean to say, god. They are not man, because their body is made of fire.

So similarly, the first, impersonal impression, Brahman, then further advanced, Supersoul, and when further advanced, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). First realization, Brahman, impersonal, the second realization is Paramātmā, Supersoul; and the last realization is the personal form of God, Kṛṣṇa.

Go on.

Devotee: "In the Viṣṇu Purāṇa also this truth has been established. It is stated there that Viṣṇu and His abodes all have self-illuminated spiritual existence. The words 'existent' and 'nonexistent' refer only to spirit and matter. That is the version of all seers of truth."

"This is the beginning of the instruction by the Lord to the living entities who are bewildered by the influence of ignorance. Removal of this ignorance means reestablishment of the eternal relationship between the worshiper and the worshipable, and the consequent understanding of the difference between part and parcel living entities and the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One can understand the nature of the Supreme by thorough study of oneself, the difference between oneself and the Supreme being understood as the relationship between the part and the whole."

"In the Vedānta-sūtra as well as in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Supreme has been accepted as the origin of all emanations. Such emanations are experienced by superior and inferior natural sequences. The living entity belongs to the superior nature, as will be revealed in the Seventh Chapter. Although there is no difference between the energy and the energetic, the energetic is accepted as supreme and the energy, or nature, is accepted as the subordinate."

"The relationship of the living entities therefore is always to be subordinate to the Supreme Lord, as with master and the servant or the teacher and the taught. Such clear knowledge is impossible to grasp under the spell of ignorance. To drive away such ignorance, the Lord teaches the Bhagavad-gītā for enlightenment of all beings for all time."

Seventeen: "That which pervades the body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul."

Prabhupāda: Now, "pervades the body," that is consciousness. The soul is very small, but . . . just like you take one grain of, what is called, poison? Snake poison? Arsenic? Poison called? What is called?

Devotee: Venom? Venom?

Prabhupāda: Yes, venom poison.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Arsenic is poison.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You take only one grain and mix with water and just inject within your body. So immediately the action is there that your heart fails and you die. One small half grain of pota cyanide, you take, just touch on the tongue. According to the chemist there is no taste of pota cyanide. Because what is this . . . whether it is sour or sweet, because there was no chance of tasting it. As soon as the taste is, (chuckles) the man is finished. He cannot say what is the sour or sweet.

So if a material thing, a small particle, has got so much power that immediately it can stop the function of the body, immediately spreads all over the body, so the soul, the spiritual spark, grain, a small grain, just like atom, it is so powerful that so long is that spiritual grain, spirit is in the heart, this body is so nice.

As soon as it is passed, immediately body begins to decompose. Immediately. So it is so powerful. If a material thing can spread all over the body, why not the spirit? This is consciousness. Because the spirit soul is within the heart, I can pinch any part of my body, I feel that this is consciousness. This is consciousness.

Go on reading. So because . . . just like the effect of a poisonous grain of material thing is immediately felt all over the body, similarly, by the consciousness which is spreading all over the body, you can understand that there is soul.

Devotee: "This verse more clearly explains the real nature of the soul, which is spread all over the body. Anyone can understand what is spread all over the body. It is consciousness. Everyone is conscious about the pains and pleasures of the body in part or as a whole. This spreading of consciousness is limited within one's own body."

Prabhupāda: Now, this consciousness, the Māyāvādī philosopher says: "Yes, I am consciousness," the same theory, this small consciousness, "but as soon as I break this body, the small consciousness will mix up with the supreme consciousness." That is their theory. But anyway, whatever that theory may be, at least in my present condition, I . . . my consciousness, is limited within this body.

I cannot say that I am superconscious. Had I been superconscious, then the pains and pleasure going on in your body I would have felt. But because I am limited within this body, therefore the pains and pleasure of my body I can understand. Therefore my consciousness is limited.

You cannot argue that you are the same . . . that will be explained. Kṛṣṇa says in the Thirteenth Chapter that kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). Kṣetra-jña, the soul, and . . . is within this body. Therefore soul is called kṣetra-jña. Kṣetra-jña means "one who knows about this body." I am conscious about my this body, you are conscious about your body. But Kṛṣṇa is conscious of your body and my body and everyone's body. Therefore He's also kṣetra-jña, but He's kṣetra-jña, He's Supersoul. Just the same example—just like the sun, during meridian, is on your head. At 5,000 miles, you ask your friend, "Where is the sun?" he'll also say, "It is on my head."

(break) If a person is actually executing devotional service, then he must be happy. If he's not happy, then he's not doing properly. So first thing is this. He might be doing something in the name of devotional service. If he's actually rendering devotional service, then he must be feeling. Just like if you are eating actually, then you must feel strength and satisfaction of your hunger. You cannot say, "I'm eating, but I'm not satisfied of my hunger." That is impossible. This is not possible. Then you are not eating. Or you are eating, but it is being devoured by the worms within your intestines.

Sometimes it happens. If there are many worms within the intestines, you go on voraciously eating, but you don't get strength because the eating substance, the essence, is taken by the worms. Therefore the worm treatment is there to kill the worms. Otherwise they will eat everything. You'll feel hungry but will not get any strength. This is the worm disease.

So if I am actually rendering devotional service and I'm not getting any happiness, that means there is some māyā's play. Otherwise there is no such reasoning. He must feel happy. Then he has to rectify the process of his service. Not to change, but rectify the process.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is that? (laughs) It cannot be. If you are actually executing devotional service, you must feel happy. If you don't feel happy, then you are not executing; there is some flaw.


Nandarāṇī: When householder women raise their children in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this seems to be an indirect service for Kṛṣṇa. Should they try to serve Him more directly by, you know, maybe cooking in the temple or painting, or something like this, more directly, or is raising children and just having the household function, is that enough service? Is that enough service?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the thing is we should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like electrification. Touching electricity by one wire, another joining another, another wire, if the touch is there factual, then the electricity is everywhere. Similarly, if our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is rightly connected, then there is no question of direct or indirect. Because absolute world there is no difference.

As soon as it is touched with the direct connection . . . that is called disciplic succession. Because the connection is coming down one after another, so if we touch here, the spiritual master who is connected by the same way, then the electric connection is there. There is no question of direct or indirect. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Simply we have to see whether the connection is disconnected. If the connection is there, tight, then the electricity come without fail.

So in our conditioned stage there will be so many doubts, so many implication. But the same thing as I gave you example, that don't be very much hasty to receive the result immediately. Simply we have to follow. We have to follow. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). This is advised by Rūpa Gosvāmī: the six things we have to take particular care, and six things we have to avoid in order to be perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So utsāhād dhairyān niścayāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3).

The first principle is one must be very enthusiastic. He must believe that Kṛṣṇa has said that na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), "My devotee will never be vanquished." So "Let me become Kṛṣṇa's devotee sincerely. I must become Kṛṣṇa's devotee sincerely." This is called enthusiasm. Then dhairyāt. "I have become Kṛṣṇa's devotee, but still I'm not feeling happy. How is that?"

So therefore you have to become patient. The enthusiasm must be there; you must be patient also. And niścayāt. Niścayāt means you must be confident, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has said that His devotee will never be vanquished, so surely I shall not be vanquished, even though I don't feel now. Let me do my duty."

Utsāhād dhairyān niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. But you have to do your duties as they are prescribed. Sato vṛtteḥ. You should not . . . there should be no duplicity. Sato vṛtteḥ means plain dealing, straight dealing. Sato vṛtteḥ, and sādhu-saṅge, and in the company of devotees.

So one must be enthusiastic, one must be patient, one must be confident, one must execute the duties, one must associate with devotees, and one must be very honest in dealing. Six things. If these six things are there, sure success. Similarly, there are six things which should be avoided. What are those?

atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca
prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ
laulyaṁ jana-saṅgaś ca
ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati
(Upadeśāmṛta 2)

Atyāhāra, too much eating or too much, I mean to say, keeping bank balance or money, or collecting more than the necessities. Atyāhāra. Generally, too much eating is prohibited. We have to eat simply, just to keep the body and soul nicely to execute Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca. Prayāsa means taking some risky work which will require too much endeavor. We should avoid that.

Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaḥ, prajalpa, nonsense talking, which has no connection with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaḥ prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ: following the rules, but actually I'm not very much careful in executing the work. So niyamāgraha. Niyamāgraha means not to accept the rules and regulation, and another meaning is simply to accept the rules and regulation without good effect. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ laulyam, greediness, and jana-saṅgaś ca, and associating with nondevotees.

These things are against execution of devotional service, and the first thing, the patience, enthusiasm and confidence, these six things are favorable. So we have to take notice of the dont's and do's. Then it will be all right. Do this, don't do this. There are six kinds of "don't do this" and six kinds of "do this." So that will be nice.


Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, when you say we must be honest in our dealings . . . if we have an advantage to . . . to take advantage of somebody else for Kṛṣṇa, for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is this permissible? Like if we have a chance to take advantage of somebody, like, to get money from them, not by stealing but by means. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Is this permissible?

Prabhupāda: Yes, but that is not by your discretion. You have to consult your spiritual master. Just like what Kṛṣṇa says Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja, "Yudhiṣṭhira, My dear brother Yudhiṣṭhira, you go and tell," I mean to say: "Droṇācārya that, 'Your son is dead.' " Because this gentleman would not die unless he hears the message of the death of his son. So he was not dying.

So Yudhiṣṭhira was commissioned to speak this lie that, "You go and say that, 'Your son is dead.' " And he says that, "I never spoke lie. I cannot do that." Now here the order is coming from Kṛṣṇa; therefore he should have executed the order immediately. Although speaking lie for common man is sin, but because it is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, it is not sin.

So that telling lie should not be taken risk of at one's own discretion. It must be ordered by Kṛṣṇa or by His representative. Telling lie is always sinful. That's all right. But if Kṛṣṇa says: "Tell lie," it is not sinful. That is the secret. You can violate the laws only on the direct order of Kṛṣṇa or His representative. That's all. That is common sense.

Just like a political person is engaged to kill somebody under superior order. And if he can kill, he is rewarded, he is given high post. But the same man, if he kills by his own discretion, he'll be hanged. So serving greater purpose, supreme purpose, absolute purpose, there is no question of such piety or sinful. But in the ordinary field, there must be "This is pious, this is sinful." So that discretion should not be taken by oneself, but it should be consulted.

Jaya-gopāla: If one can engage one who is demonic in service by telling a lie . . .

Prabhupāda: General principle is that if you can engage anyone in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is good. That is good. That is also said in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta . . . yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.4). If your aim is to engage him in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you do something which is not very straight, that is allowed. (laughter) Because you are doing very good to him. Suppose a man is drunkard. So suppose if you say, "Oh, all right. I'll give you a very nice bottle of whiskey at cheap price. Give me fifteen dollars."

And if you take fifteen dollars and engage it (in) Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that cheating is allowed. (laughter) Because that fifteen dollars he'll take and drink. So you have by some way taken away that fifteen dollars and engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that you have done good to him.

So therefore it requires little intelligence and discretion. (laughter) But that does not mean you shall cheat fifteen dollars from everywhere. But there is no cheating, because anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a drunkard. He is drunkard, he is illusioned under material spell. You see? You see? The greatest drunkard, everyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Therefore any way, if you can induce him to spend something of his hard-earned money in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is very good to him. Yes. This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. He does not know, but he is advanced one step to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He does not know. Anybody who is contributing even a farthing to you, he is advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is so nice thing.


Young man: I had something come up once. Is it all right to cheat the government?

Prabhupāda: Oh, we don't care for anyone. You see? (laughter) We are on the supreme government. (laughs) But don't take the risk. No, that should be not our policy. But the basic principle is that if some way or other you can engage a materialistic person's money into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is good for him. It is good for him. You may take some tactics; that doesn't matter. But not . . . we cannot take anything for our personal consideration.


Woman devotee: I have a question from Brahma-mūrti. Why did people in the past ages sacrifice animals, and how did Kṛṣṇa put a stop to this?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That I've explained just a few minutes before. The animals were put into the sacrificial fire. By Vedic mantra, he was given new life. But at the present moment such expert priests and brahmins are not available. Therefore it is stopped. Animal sacrifice is stopped. Because it is Kali-yuga. Nobody is reading, I mean, cultivating Vedic mantras.

So in this age, this mantra is called mahā-mantra, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. All Vedic mantras are now gone to hell. You see? Nobody can properly chant Vedic mantras and take the benefit out of it. But this mantra, any way you chant, neglectfully or properly, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and the result is there.

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā (CC Adi 17.21): "There is no other alternative, no other alternative, no other alternative," kalau, "in this age." So the Vedic mantra is now gone. This is also Vedic mantra, but this is Vedic mahā-mantra, the greatest of all mantras. Yes. So sacrifice everything and chant this mantra and go to Kṛṣṇa, back to Godhead. That's all.

(break) (japa) (kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: You are typing?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where is the boy? Bīrabhadra. Bīrabhadra. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something happened to him.

(kīrtana stops) He was in an accident today.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Downtown he was . . . he is all right, but he was hit by a car. He crossed the street and a car went through the red light and hit him. So they took him to the hospital and he has to remain there overnight for X-rays. But Viṣṇujana is with him, and I think he's all right. It was just his body . . . (laughter)

Devotee (2): (amused) It was just his body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was scraped. The car hit him and he was pushed along the street. He got bounced on the street, so his skin was rubbed and burned a little from the burning.

Devotee (3): At most a fractured rib or two.

Devotee (4): They can sue the person and get some money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're going to sue the man who was driving the car.

Prabhupāda: So you have taken the number?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we have all the details.

Prabhupāda: So ask him something to pay. Otherwise sue.

Devotee (4): Prabhupāda? The same thing happened to me, and I got about a thousand dollars. So if they can do the same.

Prabhupāda: You ask five thousand. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, five thousand.

Devotee (4): A young boy . . .

Prabhupāda: No, he should pay ten thousand, because that boy is Kṛṣṇa conscious. (laughter) Ordinary accident five thousand. (chuckles) All right. He's all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's all right.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (end)