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690309 - Lecture SB 07.09.08 - Hawaii

From Vanisource

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



690309SB-HAWAII - March 09, 1969 - 72:48 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

brahmādayaḥ sura-gaṇā munayo 'tha siddhāḥ
sattvaikatāna gatayo vacasāṁ pravāhaiḥ
nārādhituṁ puru-guṇair adhunāpi pipruḥ
kiṁ toṣṭum arhati sa me harir ugra-jāteḥ
(SB 7.9.8)

This is a prayer by Prahlāda Mahārāja. You know the history of Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was devotee from childhood. When he was only five years old . . . he was devotee from the womb of his mother. His mother was under the shelter of . . .

(break) When her husband was defeated and . . . he was exiled, rather, from his kingdom by the demigods, so he left his kingdom, wife and children and was exiled, and in that condition of exile, he made severe penances, austerities, to gain over the demigods, and he was empowered by Lord Brahmā that he would not be killed, indirectly. This story you know.

In our Los Angeles temple they have made very nice puppet show, and people are appreciating very much. Even they are selling ticket at the rate of one dollar fifty cent, still, people are coming. Last Sunday I was present, and they invited . . . distributed pamphlets, and more than a hundred people came, and they participated with the kīrtana very nicely, they heard the lecture, and the function was for two hours. Still, they kept very busy themselves in eating prasādam, in seeing the puppet show and the cinema of Ratha-yātrā. So many things. It was very successful. And they collected about more than $150.

So things have to be organized. People are actually hankering after this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement because it is the natural function of the living entity. It is not artificial. The very, I mean to, vivid example are yourselves. Your contact with me is, utmost, for the last two years, but still, you are taking very serious interest in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Why? Because it is the fundamental necessity.

Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Every living entity is by nature joyful, spiritually, and because he is materially covered, his joyfulness is hampered. That is the real position. Feverish condition, one becomes sick, attacked with fever—his joyfulness goes away. He becomes sick. Similarly, our natural position is joy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt.

Kṛṣṇa is joyful. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa; therefore I must be also joyful. That is natural. If my father is black, then I am also black. If my mother is black, I am also black. So our father, the supreme father Kṛṣṇa, is joyful. Don't you see Kṛṣṇa's attitude? Anywhere you see, Kṛṣṇa is joyful. He is not engaged in some industrial work or in some heavy machine making. He is simply playing on His flute. You see? And Rādhārāṇī is there. That is joyful nature. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt.

ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis
tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ
goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūto
govindam adi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.37)

The Brahma-saṁhitā says that His eternal form is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa means taste, mellow. So we are also seeking some rasa in everything—a juice. When you taste any fruit or anywhere, you are seeking after some juice, everyone. So there is another juice, which is ānanda-cinmaya, which is spiritual and simply blissful. That is Kṛṣṇa's form. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis.

And then there is expansion of ānanda-cinmaya, that spiritual bliss expansion. That expansion is ourself. He has expanded. We are that expansion, living entities. And ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tabh . . . the gopīs, gopīs are also expansion. The cowherds boys, they are expansion. Everything. Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. Eko bahu śyāma: "One." "I am one." The Supreme Lord says: "I am one. I shall expand."

So He has expanded by His energy, by His part and parcel, and everywhere the same quality is there. But there are proportion. Just like when there is fire there is bursting out of sparks. Some of the spark are very big, some of the spark are small—some of them, very small. In this way there are proportion. Similarly, all living entities, all energy, they are all expansion of Kṛṣṇa.

The material energy, the spiritual energy, the marginal energy, they are all expansion. Just like sunlight, expansion of the sun. And in the sunlight . . . it is very easy to understand. In the sunlight there are so many planets, and each and every planet have varieties of production—mountains, seas, ocean, trees, or trees, there are varieties of trees, animals, each and every planet.

So nothing is void or impersonal. Everything is full of varieties, personalities. So you can understand. And what are these planets? These planets are called dvīpa. Dvīpa means island. Just like this is an island. We are sitting in this Kauai island. Why it is island? Because all around water. Similarly, all these planets are called also island. Why? Because all around the space, space water. As this is surrounded by water, the planets are surrounded by space. So if you take the space, ethereal ocean, then it is island. Every planet is an island.

Now, if you go to another island, there also you will find the same varieties as you find here. Similarly, if you go to other planet, you will find the same varieties as here. Maybe little different, climatic, but the quality of variety is the same. There is no reason to believe that there is no life, no variegated. This is all nonsense. If I come from the mainland of America, USA, to this island, I'll find the same trees or same population and same working. What is the reason to believe that there is no life, there is no vegetable? Why?

This is lack of knowledge. Everywhere the same varieties. And wherefrom the varieties are coming? From the sunshine. That is fact, scientific. Because the sunshine is there, so many varieties of planet are coming out, and in each and every planet there are so many varieties of vegetation, human being, animals, seas, mountain. And similarly . . . this is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā: yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40).

Yasya prabhā. These innumerable universes, how they have been possible? How they are existing? That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, "On account of Kṛṣṇa's effulgence."

You see Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa is sitting, you will find effulgence. That effulgence, it is so full of potencies. Same way as the sunlight, sunshine, is so full of potencies—they are producing so many planets, varieties—similarly, you can understand how much Kṛṣṇa's effulgence, that shining from His body, is potential. So that is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Coming out universes. And within the universes there are planets, and within the planet there are so many varieties, and within the varieties there are so many differentiation.

So this is all expansion. Try to understand how Kṛṣṇa . . . because we have got very limited knowledge. Ātmavat manyate jagat. The same Dr. Frog. Dr. Frog is calculating in his own way, and he is puzzled how there can be an Atlantic Ocean or Pacific Ocean. Because he has never experienced, he has no idea, he is thinking, "This three feet water expansion, that is very big water."

So our folly is that we are trying to study Kṛṣṇa, or God, by our own standard, frog standard. We do not know how great Kṛṣṇa is, how His potency is great, how He is manufacturing, how He is . . . because we think, "If we have to manufacture something, I require some tools, I require some energy, I require some ingredients. I have to collect it. Then I can make."

Therefore we are surprised, "How Kṛṣṇa can make, or how God can create, this universe? Where is that instrument? Where is that ingredient?" They cannot. They are thinking in that way that, "I require instrument; Kṛṣṇa requires the hammer and the saw to manufacture this comic manifestation." I am thinking in that way.

Therefore I cannot believe it, how the cause of this cosmic manifestation can be a person. They are thinking imperson. Impersonal bigness, they think it is very important. Actually, it has no value. Background is person. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that brahmaṇo 'haṁ pratiṣṭha (BG 14.27):

"The impersonal Brahman, I am the cause. I am the source of impersonal Brahman."

So these things cannot be understood by ordinary brain. It requires a different brain. That brain is created by devotional service, these finer tissues. Just like those who are dull materialists, their brain is congested with so much rubbish thing, they cannot understand that it is through the bodily effulgence of the Lord the potential manifestation is this cosmic manifestation. They will think that like Dr. Frog: "If it is created by God, where He got so much ingredient, so much instrument, that He created?" Yes.

But God's creation is not like that. Automatically the effulgence is coming. Just like the sun . . . from the sun disc, automatically the heat is profusely distributed and everything is taking place out of His own . . . the sun-god, or the sun, or the predominating deity in the sun planet, he does not come out to manufacture another planet. He is there.

You can understand from this material example how things are being created through the sunlight, how the planets are growing due to sunlight. If there is no sunlight, we'll see all plants will die. That is our experience. And because the sunlight is there, the plant is growing, they are becoming green, they are becoming red, they are becoming flavored.

So all interaction of these five elements, water, earth, fire, heat and ether . . . so where from the sunlight comes? From the sun. Wherefrom the sun comes? From the brahma-jyotir. Wherefrom the brahma-jyotir comes? It is from Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand how Kṛṣṇa is the Absolute Truth, or the original source of everything. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8)

"I am the origin. I am the source of all creation," Bhagavad-gītā says: "and from Me everything is coming."

Sarva. Sarva means whatever you can think, everything is coming from . . . if you think for the time being about the sun, what is the sun? The sun is also coming from Him. Sarvam. Sarvam means including everything. Sarvam ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ. He is the origin of Brahmā. Generally, we think Brahmā has created. Brahmā is also created by Him.

Lord Śiva is also created by Him. Because from Brahmā, Rudra . . . Rudra is stated to be the son of Brahmā. So Brahmā is the son, or born out of the lotus flower from the abdomen of Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. In this way Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything. That is a fact.

That is the verdict of all Vedic literature. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3).

If you can understand the origin person, Kṛṣṇa, then everything will come to your knowledge. Everything will be understood: how everything is existing, how they are appearing, how they are disappearing, how they are existing. Everything will be known.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja, he was very much tortured by his father because he was a devotee. That is the function of the non-devotees: to tease the devotees. That is not very new thing. That is old. Even the father. So when he was too much teased, then Lord appeared in Nṛsiṁha mūrti to kill the demon, and He was very much angry. You see? Even a neighbor's child, if he is tortured by his father, you will be angry, that "Why you are torturing this little child?" And what to speak of Kṛṣṇa? And especially His devotee, Prahlāda Mahārāja, was being tortured.

Kṛṣṇa appeared as Lord Buddha because people tortured these ordinary animals. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita-paśu-ghātam (Śrī Daśāvatāra Stotra 7).

We pray in that keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. The meaning is that He appeared as Lord Buddha, being compassionate on the animals, who were being tortured by the human being. Of course, there is law to punish them, but sometimes the Lord becomes very much tortured Himself when His sons, or may be animals, they are tortured. Otherwise, how He is father of everyone? You see.

So the torturing business of the demons is going on. Going on. As soon as the demons finds somebody little weak, they will torture. Weak in their way. A devotee is not weak, but they think that "These devotees, they are weak. They cannot do any materialistic work. They cannot build skyscrapers. They cannot build a subtle machine. So they have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa." You see? They think like that.

But actually, they know, the devotees know, what is this value of this materialistic advancement. People are not happy actually. Now, so far materialistic happiness is concerned, your country, America, is number one. You are all qualified boys and girls, I see. But still, if we calculate impartially, what is the advantage? The advantage: hand to mouth. You earn in the morning and eat in the evening—finished. You see? Such qualified boys that . . . I take, for example, Gaurasundara. He is thoughtful. He is educated. He knows so many things, artist. But for livelihood he has to go early in the morning and come late in the evening. So what is the result?

This is the way of materialistic life. Life means that they should not work. Working hard, very hard working, that is the animal's business. The animal should be engaged to work hard for feeding, whole day. Just like the cow is standing here, sometimes eating this, sometime eating that, sometime eating that. What is the business? Only business: to fill up the belly. That's all. But after all qualification, if one has to do the same thing just to fill up the belly, working twelve hours, fourteen hours, then what is this civilization?

Has this civilization given the opportunity that, "Oh, you have no more to work. Simply sit down, every . . . all comforts"? You can say some of the rich men, they are enjoying like that, but they are enjoying at the cost of others. They have made such machinery that hundreds of men will work for them and they will sit down and enjoy. What is that enjoyment? Women and wine. That's all. Therefore some . . . a section of people, revolting—Communists.

So this materialistic way of life is not human life. It is less than animal life. Animal also does not work so hard. You see? And the people are engaged . . . wherever you go, the very big highways. What is called? Freeways. Four lines of motorcars running this way and four lines of motorcars running this way at the speed of seventy miles, and everyone is busy. You see? And they take, "It is a very good civilization."

And if you shortcut your hard labor, sit down and discuss what is the Absolute Truth, what is the philosophy of life, "They are nonsense." You see? And if you work day and night, hard labor, and to get that energy, inject some medicine or some tranquilizer and this and that . . . you see? This is the . . . going on.

So actually, this is not life. This is cats' and dogs' life. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛ-loke
kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye
(SB 5.5.1)

"This life, human form of life, is not meant for working so hard just like animals." Then? "This kind of engagement is for the dogs and hogs." The hogs also, they work the whole day and night and have some sex pleasure. They are happy. So is that life, simply working day and night hard and enjoy some sex pleasure some way or other, and we are thinking happy? No. This is not life.

Life is to utilize the energy for perpetual happiness. They do not know that there is some perpetual happiness, there is perpetual life. They are so ignorant. Therefore they are trying: "Whatever happiness can be had here, just enjoy." But there is. You are eternal. You are blissful. Simply you are covered by this material energy.

So the demons, they do not know it, and if somebody tries for it, they do not take it very nicely, exactly. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. His philosophy was to finish all anxieties of life. His father asked him that, "What finest thing you have learned, my dear boy? Can you say?" "Yes." "What is that?"

"Now, these people are working hard and full of anxieties on account of their materialistic way of life. Therefore, I think to give up all this nonsense and go to the forest and surrender to Kṛṣṇa." "Oooh," the father said: "what nonsense this child is learning?"

tyaktvā ātma-ghātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
tat sādhu manye 'sura-vārya dehināṁ
sadā samudvignā (-dhīyam) asad-grahat
(SB 7.5.5)

Sadā samudvignā-dhiyām asad-grahāt. "My dear father . . ." He directly addressed his father, "My dear father, the best of the demons." He addressed his father, "the best of the demons." If I address you "best of the dogs," is that very nice thing? But if you think, "Oh, Swāmījī addresses 'best.' " But best of what? "Best of the dogs." (laughs)

So similarly, he addressed his father, "My dear best of the demons." Asurya-vārya, this very word means . . . asura . . . asura means demon, and vārya, vārya means the best. He did not like to address his father as "father." He knew that "What nonsense this father is? He is a demon."

So a preacher . . . Prahlāda Mahārāja is not, I mean to say, against his father. Otherwise, he would not have prayed to Lord Nṛsiṁha, "My dear Lord, kindly forgive my father." Just see. Because he addressed his father as "best of the demons," that does not mean he had no love for his father. Simply by flattering, if I do some . . . ultimately do some harm unto you, then what is the meaning of that flattery?

Here the father and son in the material world, they are addressing very nicely, but the father is sending the son to the hell, and the son is also sending the father to the hell by materialistic activities. A father is teaching, "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. Eat meat and drink and associate with as many girls and . . . that is . . . this is enjoyment." That means, indirectly, he is sending his son to the hell. You see? There is no love. Actually, this is no love. If I help you in the matter of . . . for your ruination, that is not love.

So Prahlāda Mahārāja did not flatter his father. This should be the attitude of devotee. They should straightly speak everything truth. Prahlāda Mahārāja was asked by his father, "Oh, how you are so bold? You are a child. You are bold. You are talking before me so boldly. Where do you get such strength before me?"

Immediately, "My dear father, from the same source wherefrom you have got your strength, and you are so proud of your kingdom and material acquisition, I also got this from the same source. But you are revolted, I am not revolted. But the source is the same. You cannot be so powerful without Kṛṣṇa."

Even the demons . . . the only difference is the demons wanted like that, so Kṛṣṇa has, "All right. You take this demonic power." That's all. But it is out of causeless mercy of Kṛṣṇa even the demons are so proud, but they have taken their mercy from Kṛṣṇa to go to hell. And the devotees take the mercy of Kṛṣṇa to render Him loving service. That is the difference between the demons and the devotees.

Everyone achieves . . . whatever facilities he has got in his life, it is all from Kṛṣṇa. Without Kṛṣṇa, nobody can have anything, either demonic or devotional. The difference is that the demons, they do not know what to ask from Kṛṣṇa. The devotees know what to ask from Kṛṣṇa. That is difference.

Suppose if you go to a king and he says . . . the king gives you open order that "Whatever you like, you can ask from me, I shall give you." And if you ask from the king, "My dear king, please give me a plate of ashes," is that very intelligence? The king is asking that "Whatever you want, you ask from me, I shall give you," and if somebody asks from him, "Give me a plate of ashes," is that very nice?

So that intelligence, the demons, they haven't got. They are asking from God that "Give me this. Give me riches. Give me power. Give me material name, fame. All these things give me, I don't want anything." So Kṛṣṇa is giving them.

So this demonic behavior was ended by Kṛṣṇa when it was too much, too much intolerable for the Lord. The demonic, the demons, are given all the chances, "All right, whatever you like, you do." But when the demonic power becomes too much excessive, at that time, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8)

"For protecting the devotees and for killing the demons," Kṛṣṇa says, yuge yuge sambhavāmi, "I come down and appear on this earth in many million millenniums."

So that Nṛsiṁhadeva has appeared to give protection to Prahlāda Mahārāja and to kill his demon father, and He was very much angry. Now, some nonsense people may say . . . they inquire like this, "Why God should be angry?" Just see. Why should not He be angry? Wherefrom the anger comes?

If God is the source of everything, then where from this anger comes? It comes from God. How you can deny it? Why God should not be angry? If Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8)

"I am the source of everything," so anger is not within the categories of everything? So why God should not be angry? He must be angry. But He is angry on the nondevotee, not on His devotee. On the demons He is angry.

So anger has got some utilization; not that I should not be angry. I should use my anger on some particular occasion. It is not that I cut off anger. That is . . . to become impotent is not good, but you have got full potency, but you can have sex life when it is required. To become impotent is not required. You should be fully potent, but not misuse it. That is required.

Similarly, there is no misuse by God or His devotee. Otherwise, there is no question of . . . that the devotee or God should not be angry; but they know how to use it. That is the difference. As God knows where to use anger, similarly, devotee should also know where to use anger. "I am not angry. You can beat me with shoes, I am not angry." That is not devotional. You see? But the thing is, a devotee is not angry on his personal account. Just like God also does not become angry on His personal account.

Suppose Hiraṇyakaśipu wants to hurt Kṛṣṇa. What he can do to Kṛṣṇa? So where is the cause of anger? He was angry not that Hiraṇyakaśipu was a demon or non-devotee; He was angry because that demon was teasing the devotee. For His personal account, He cannot be angry. What anyone can harm Kṛṣṇa? He is so powerful.

Suppose a small ant comes and bites me. So is that the cause of my anger? No. What is that? That is nothing. Similarly, what Hiraṇyakaśipu can do so that the Lord should be angry? But then why then He was angry? He was angry for His devotee.

Similarly, we also, if we are devotee, we shall be angry when God is insulted. When devotee is insulted, we should be very much angry. But if somebody insults me, I don't be angry. "All right, he insulted. I tolerate." But when you speak against God, when you say: "I am God," I shall beat you with shoes, I shall be so much angry. You see? That should be attitude of the devotee.

As God is angry for his devotee, similarly, our anger should be also utilized for God. Just try to understand. It is not that we shall not be angry. Yes, we shall be angry, but in suitable place, where God is insulted. When a rascal is claiming that he is God and deceiving others, you must be very much angry, "You rascal, what you are doing?" Somebody may say: "Oh, you are devotee? Why you have become so angry?" Now, why not? Here is the question of God and His devotee.

Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us that, "You become tolerant than the tree and humble than the grass." But when Jagāi-Mādhāi insulted Lord Nityānanda, oh, He immediately became so angry, "Oh, bring My cakra. I shall kill these persons." Did He become a tolerant like the tree, "All right, Nityānanda is insulted. Let Me become tolerant"? (laughs) No, no.

Try to understand. You see? We should not be impotent. Arjuna, he was declining to fight, not that he was impotent, he could not fight. He was a great warrior. But he was refusing, "Oh, what for this personal interest is to kill them?" But when he saw that, "Kṛṣṇa wants this," oh, he showed his potency.

So to become a devotee is not to become impotent, but everything has proper use. Just like if you are lusty, that lust should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. I am lusty to accumulate money. Yes, you bring money, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. We don't say that you should not be lusty. If you have got capacity to earn money, earn money, as much as you can, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa. If I am very angry, yes, you remain angry, but utilize it for Kṛṣṇa.

I am very greedy. Yes, you become greedy for Kṛṣṇa. How to become greedy? "Oh, I must have good association. Where Kṛṣṇa's consciousness is being preached, I must be very greedy." So that greediness is not there, but I am very greedy: Where is wine? Where is woman? Where is club? Where is naked dance? I am greedy. You see? I am not greedy for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that greediness should be turned like that.

So these are the things to be learned by the devotee. We should not be impotent. We should not be null and void. We should possess everything—but for Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

(break)

Devotee: . . . and they say something like "I am God." Some young people our age, they talk like that. Does this mean that we should become angry at them because . . .

Prabhupāda: No. First of all . . . just like there is some gentlemanly behavior: even if you are angry on some person, but you do not show your anger; you talk with him. Similarly, actually these persons are demons, but because we are preacher, we are preaching. If we simply become angry and cannot convince him, that means imperfect preacher. You see? You are . . . basically you are angry. That's all. "I don't agree with them, neither we have business." But because we are preacher, so if I simply become angry, then my preaching work will be stopped. Do you follow?

The anger is there, but because we are preacher, we have to . . . just like politicians. They are angry upon the enemy, but sometimes, by diplomatic means, they take their work from the enemies. You see? Not that they show the anger always. There are . . . similarly, when you go to preaching, first of all try to convince him that, "How you become God? What is your definition of God?" You simply ask, "What do you mean by 'God,' that you are claiming to be God? If you come under that definition, then you are God."

Just like if somebody claims that, "I am millionaire. I am very rich," a poor man, walking on the street with niggardly dress, if he claims that, "I am rich man," will you accept? Then he is crazy. If he is claiming that, "I am millionaire," then you have to ask that "Where is your sign of being a millionaire?

You have no car, you have no good dress, your feature is so ugly. How you are millionaire? What is the definition of a millionaire?" First ask him. Similarly, ask him that, "What do you know about God? What is the definition of 'God'? If your behavior and everything tallies with that definition, then you are God. I will accept. We are God worshiper. Then I shall worship you. But first of all let me know what do you mean by 'God'?"

Is it very difficult job? Let him define what is God. "If you say that I am God, then you must know what is God. If you falsely claim 'God,' then how you can be God?" You don't you ask like this . . . like this . . . that, "What is your definition of God that you are claiming God"?

The same example—if somebody claims that, "I am very rich man," but I see that he is poor man, shall I not ask, "What do you mean by rich man?" Then by his definition he will be defeated. Ask him, "What is the def . . ." Did you ask anybody, "What is the definition of God? What do you mean by God?"

He's a rascal. He does not know what is the definition of God, but he has got some conception that, "This is God." Then he must explain, "I mean by the word God this." Then he will be captured by his definition, by his statement. Just guess what he will explain about God if you ask him like that. Did you not ask like this?

Devotee: I asked one person, and he said: "Everything." He said he was everything.

Prabhupāda: He was everything.

Devotee: He said he was everything.

Prabhupāda: He was. Oh, "How you became . . ." He was not. He is not? Then ask him, the next question. He was everything. That's all right.

Devotee: Then he simply talks jugglery words.

Prabhupāda: That you also, you have to get. That's all right. He was once God. He was once rich. That's all right. But how he has become poor? He was at sometimes God, accepted. But how he has become dog instead of God? But God is susceptible to such falldown? Then what kind of God he is? If God is subjected sometimes to falldown, then he is not all-powerful.

Then the cause which has made him fall down, that is powerful. Therefore he is not God. God is all-powerful. So why other power will make him to come down from the position of God? Then that power is powerful. But God is all-powerful; therefore he is not God. This is common reasoning.

God cannot be subjected to any other external . . . just like according to Biblical philosophy, "God and Satan." God is never under the influence of Satan. Is there any statement in the Bible that "God has become under the influence of Satan"? Then Satan become great, God is not great.

Similarly, if by some cause, by Satanic cause, one has fallen down from the position of God to the position of dog, then that Satan is greater than God. But God is great. Therefore he is not God. Gaursundara? How do you think this argument?

Gaursundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. God cannot be under the influence of anything so that He may fall down. That is not God. Because God is all-powerful. Why He should be influenced by any other power? Then what kind of God? Then he is not God. Just try to understand how to argue. Then you will be able to argue with them. Yes. Ask any other question in that connection. I shall try to explain.

(aside) Sit down.

Govinda dāsī: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Govinda dāsī: Whenever we preach that you can utilize anything and everything in the service of Kṛṣṇa, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa and therefore we can utilize everything in His service, but then the rascals may say: "Well, if we can use everything in Kṛṣṇa's service, then why is it that these four things are excluded and they can't be used?"

Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa does not want it. I cannot utilize everything and anything for Kṛṣṇa which Kṛṣṇa does not like. Because you are Kṛṣṇa's servant, so you have to take permission from Kṛṣṇa, "Would You like this?" If He says: "Yes," yes, I can use that. If Kṛṣṇa says: "Yes, I will eat meat," oh, I shall kill all the animals and give Him, offer Him.

But if Kṛṣṇa says: "No, I want fruits," then how can I give everything Him against His will? Is that devotion? Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He says that, "Fruits, flower, vegetables—anyone give Me with devotion, I eat." Therefore you have to do that.

"Everything, anything" does not mean that you will go against the will of Kṛṣṇa. Does it mean that? If Kṛṣṇa says: "You bring this," "Ah, never mind." Even though I do not like it, I shall do it. Just like Kṛṣṇa said that, "You fight." Is fighting good? He was good man. He didn't want to fight.

But Kṛṣṇa said: "You fight," so against his will he fought. That is everything and anything. From gentleman's point of view, from nonviolence point of view, Arjuna was very nice. He was not willing to fight. But Kṛṣṇa said: "You must fight," and therefore everything was engaged.

That is everything, with permission of Kṛṣṇa. Not that you can manufacture anything, "Oh, it is for Kṛṣṇa's service." You can offer everything to Kṛṣṇa under His permission or His representative's permission, not whimsically. Is that clear? Yes. Because you are Kṛṣṇa's servant, you have dedicated your life to serve Him, how you can offer anything which He does not like? "Anything and everything" does not mean beyond the jurisdiction of His permission. That you cannot do.

Girl devotee: Swāmījī, then the rascals could say: "If God is everything, why does He reject some things?"

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Girl devotee: "If God is everything, why does He accept some things and reject other things?"

Prabhupāda: That is God's choice. The same example—the stool and urine, the cause is your body. That does not mean that you have to eat stool and urine. Just like this hair, my body is the cause. Why do you cut the hair and throw it away? Nails, the cause is the body. Nail is coming out from this body. Why do you cut and throw it away?

So even . . . even Kṛṣṇa is the cause of everything, you should accept what Kṛṣṇa wants. Not that because He is the cause of everything, everything should be accepted. Yes.

(aside) (referring to baby) Come here. Why don't you give her something playing?

Girl devotee: I didn't bring something with me. I forgot to bring it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. She must have some engagement. Yes.

Girl devotee: She likes the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hmm. Just try. Of course, you are going to preach; you must understand. Discuss everything very nicely. Be convinced on your own argument and philosophy. Then you can preach. You don't be in doubts and hazardous way. Whatever question you are putting, just try to understand them very nicely, without any doubt. So is that your question is answered or not?

Girl devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Clear? Your question is clear? And your question? Yes. So you learn how to answer. We have got answer for everyone. The major question is that the demons, they want to become God. Let them explain what the demon means by the word God. If he comes under that definition, then we shall accept him God.

But if there is no idea of God, then his claim is false. Just like I am in your country. If I falsely claim, "I am citizens of America," how can I be accepted? You can be accepted as citizen of America because there is a definition of the word "citizens of America." So your position comply with that definition—you can be accepted as citizens of America.

And my position does not comply with that definition; therefore I am not citizen. So in this way. "All right, I accept you God, but what is your definition of God?" Just ask him to explain. What do they say "God" means? What does he mean, "God"? What do they explain? Did you not ask? What do they say?

Devotee: He said God means everything, and they say that God is everywhere.

Prabhupāda: "Are you everywhere? Now you are on the street. Are you in your home?"

Devotee (2): Some people say they are, though. They say: "I am everything."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Are you President Johnson? If you are everything, then why you are abiding by the state laws? You are under the state laws. If you say in the police station, "I am everything. You cannot say anything," (chuckles) will it be accepted? So how do you say you are everything? You are crazy. Yes.

Girl devotee: That's what it comes down to, really.

Prabhupāda: So if you are not crazy, then we can talk with you. You are crazy. How you are everything? Prove that you are everything. What is the answer? What should be the answer that he is everything? Simply by claiming? If you simply falsely claim that, "I am everything of this city. Everything belongs to me," will that stabilize him, that he is everything? Then? How you are everything? Prove it.

Sudāmā: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sudāmā: I have spoken with men on the street, and they have said: "Well, if God is the creator of everything and is so dear to everyone, why then has He caused so much suffering?" And I have told them that it is because it was our choice. This was our individual choice. But they don't accept that . . .

Prabhupāda: That means he is not reasonable. Every . . . now, when a man is diseased, that does not mean everyone is diseased. That disease is his choice. Just like Kārttikeya is now sick. I am telling that "You should not . . . why you have taken this? Why you have taken this?"

So he has caused the disease. Similarly, suffering we cause. If that suffering is for all, why the other man is not suffering? Why you are suffering? That means you are cause for the suffering.

The same reasoning, that if somebody says: "Oh, the high-court judge is so unkind to me. He has ordered for me hanging," is that correct? You have caused your hanging. The high-court judge has simply given the judgment that "He should be hanged. He has committed murder. He should be hanged."

Therefore your commitment . . . you committed murder, that you caused your hanging, not that high-court judge is your enemy and he is giving you order to be hanged. You are the cause of your hanging.

Similarly, God is impartial. He can give the judgment that, "This man has committed this offense. He should be punished like this." These are common reasons. God is all-kind. God is all-great. So how He should be so mean-minded that He should give somebody suffering and somebody enjoyment?

Is that not mean-mindedness if I treat differently? I have got so many disciples. If I treat some of my disciples very nicely and some of my disciples badly, is that very good for me? So how . . . God is all-kind. How He can be like that? It is my karma.

This is law of karma. Fruitive activities. If you work in a certain way, you get the fruit. If you study very nicely, you become very educated. The university has the facility to give you. But if you say: "Oh, why God has made me uneducated?" is that reason? But the university is open for you. Why did you not take the trouble of being educated?

You cannot say: "Why the government has made me uneducated?" Government is giving facility to everyone, "Come on." And is that argument, "Why government has made me criminal?" You have made yourself criminal.

So you try to understand. You have to preach. We should not be defeated by any demons, provided he is not crazy. What is the argument there with the crazy man? (chuckles)

Sudāmā: I have seen it happening that way with saṅkīrtana on the street. Even myself, my anger sometimes has gone off till we're both in such anger, we're like this with one another, and the whole preaching is all off. They are crazy, and I have wasted my time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. But try to your best. Your service is to Kṛṣṇa, so it is not expected that everyone should be induced by your argument. You cannot expect. One day, two day, but we have to do our work. That's all.

(pause) (aside referring to baby) Oh, she is very glad. Yes. Yes. (laughter) Sit down. Sit down. She is angry now. (laughs) Very angry?

(laughter) (Prabhupāda plays with baby) Angry. That is anger?

Girl devotee: I don't know. I've never seen anything like it.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right? Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) (end)