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711110 - Conversation - Delhi

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

711110R1-DELHI - November 10, 1971 - 21:49 Minutes

Prabhupāda: This kīrtana will go on nicely. So only you have got only mṛdaṅga? Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think more are coming from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Means? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śyāmasundara called me.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. At least four khols you have to have. Four khols and sixteen men, that is party. Yes. And one leading singer and one dancer. That makes complete party. Twenty, twenty-two men. So where is Śyāmasundara?

Devotee: I didn't find him.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: I didn't find him anywhere.

Prabhupāda: He is not here?

Lady devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Huh? Resting? He went to bed very late last night? Hmm.

Lady devotee: He just wanted to finish that . . . (indistinct) . . . he was trying to finish the Māyāpur thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, that's all right.Then he may not come. So you can speak some discussion from our books? You can see, he is very great speaker, Viṣala prabhu.

Viṣala: Me?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viṣala: I cannot speak. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viṣala: I've been reading the Brahma-saṁhitā, and uh, by His Divine Grace Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, and he mentions that to receive the mercy of . . . Kṛṣṇa's mercy, one has to be free of all mundane desires, and also he has to receive the grace of God at the same time. So it's all . . . it's like the son, he mentions . . .

He doesn't know how wealthy his father is, but by the grace of his father, he says: "My dear son, I have a lot of money and I . . . you will be in my will, and you will have this all, and I will give you all these instructions."

So similarly, by finally, gradually becoming free of all mundane desires and completely being influenced by the cit potency, by the superior cognitive energy of Lord Kṛṣṇa, one will receive the mercy of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. But the most important thing is to receive the mercy of the spiritual master, because only by the guru's mercy can one be blessed by God. So that means we have to . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Next?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's been reading your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam every morning, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've been reading Śrīla . . . Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes, read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I get a copy of that?

Prabhupāda: So here is a microphone. You did not know? Śrīmatī has brought two microphones.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, Uher's?

Prabhupāda: Yes, just see.

Gurudas: There's tapes also.

Devotee (2): Wonderful.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gurudas: Tapes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Devotee (2): See if it works?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Whenever somebody comes from there, something must be brought, because these things are not available. (break) . . . Indian, you cannot excel in mechanical knowledge than the Europeans, American. That is not possible. We will always remain hundred years back.

Everyone has got some special talent given by God. We should cooperate. That's it. Just like the hand can work in this way. We cannot walk with hands. That is the business of the hand. Similarly, I cannot cut the papers with leg.

So all living entities are endowed with special . . . we should cooperate. The hand and leg should cooperate for maintaining the whole body. Similarly, everyone should use his talent for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Not compete with one another. That is mistake. No (laughs).

Śyāmasundara: (unwrapping package) It's not the microphone.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: I don't think it's the microphone. (break) So should we send these . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . I wrote. They never reply.

Śyāmasundara: It's such a big company, they . . .

Prabhupāda: I do not know what kind of big company, and their publication we do not get in India. Why? . . . (indistinct) . . . publication, several . . . (indistinct) . . . we cannot get in Macmillan Company. Sometimes somebody inquires, they reply that, "We have not published this book." Just see. Yes. They have no information.

Lady devotee: We can show that one copy of that letter, and what can they do to us?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lady devotee: If they try to stop us from printing, we can show them the copy of that letter that says they do not publish, and then what can they do? We have a copy of . . .

Prabhupāda: I think we can publish all books here, because the agreement is made in USA. It has nothing to do within India. Indian law is different.

Śyāmasundara: I think it's a world copyright, or else we could publish in Japan also.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: I think this is a world copyright, or else we would be able to publish in Japan, in . . .

Prabhupāda: So Japan is out of world?

Śyāmasundara: It's out of US.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: It's out of the USA.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Like India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: I think their copyright . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Śyāmasundara: . . . is binding around the world.

Prabhupāda: If they want to publish, let them publish.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That I offered them that, "We are going to publish." So there was no reply.

Śyāmasundara: Oh.

Prabhupāda: They did not comment and . . .

Śyāmasundara: You already offered.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we go chant our rounds now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

(devotees offer obeisances and leave)


Prabhupada: (indistinct Hindi) . . . bhai ji bhi aye the . . . (indistinct) . . . (brother had also come . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian Guest: Uski behen bhi ayi thi Los Angeles se, humare bade bhai hai na apse Calcutta me mile the . . . (break) . . . to ab apki agya ho (break) (His sister had also come from Los Angeles, my elder brother who met you in Calcutta . . . (break) . . . if your grace permits (break))

Prabhupada: (indistinct Hindi) . . . but one thing is that, all right, he can go as my relative, because as visitor if he goes, then he cannot be admitted in school.

Lalaji: That's right.

Prabhupāda: But if he goes as my unmarried grandson . . .

Lalaji: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . then he can get. So that will be done. Ye tum pas kar lo, tumko le jayenge. (You pass this then I will take you.) So your sons are very good sons. I have got all blessings for them. Ab tum kab bhul ho gaya, humko malum nahi. (When did you become bad, I don't know.)

Lalaji: Mai to apka ekmatra ladka hu, apka sabhi koi. (I am your only son, all your . . .) you have so many grandsons, but I am the one erratic son, bad son.

Prabhupāda: (laughs)

Lalaji: Wo ap meri thodi si ek problem solve kar dijiye Prabhupāda (Please solve just one of my problems Prabhupāda,) then I will come.

Prabhupāda: What is that problem?

Lalaji: Yehi material problems hai thodi, ladkiyon ki shadi hai . . . (indistinct) . . . ap jante hai Hindu samaj. (These material problems like getting my daughters married . . . (indistinct) . . . you know how Hindu Community works.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi nahi, hum to . . . (No, no, I . . .) I never told you that you give up your family life, but in family life you just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Lalaji: Wo to mai karta hu Prabhupāda thoda bohot, mai karta hu. (That I do a little bit, Prabhupāda, I do.)

Prabhupāda: Thoda bohot nahi, full. Ab tumhara ye pita hai na tum iske pita ho, bolo? (Not a little bit, it has to be done full (laughs). Is he your father or are you his father, tell?)

Lalaji: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yehi hai. Tumhara kya ray hai? Ye tumhara pitaji ye hi pita hai ki tumhara pitaji inka pita hai? (What is your opinion? Is he your father or are you his father, tell?) There, there was a similar case in Lord Caitanya's time. The son became first a great devotee. So when the father came, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then . . . (indistinct) . . . then the father said, "No. He is my father." (laughs). To kya subject matter hai tumhara, BMA? (So what subject matter are you studying, BMA?)

Lalajis Son: BMA, general arts . . . (indistinct) . . . politics and economics, Hindi, English

Prabhupāda: Political Economics and?

Lalajis Son: Hindi aur English. (Hindi and English.)

Prabhupāda: Hindi aur . . . (Hindi and . . .)

Lalajis Son: Che subjects hai. (Six subjects are there.)

Prabhupāda: That's nice. So their work is proposed to . . .

Lalaji: I think he should go there to study something, earn some money. That's all. Ap kahe to mai bhi chala jata hu. (If you say then I can also go.)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalaji: Ap kahe to, apki agya ho to Nandini ko prasad-vasad banane ke liye waha . . . (indistinct) . . . lekin jaise ki ap uchit samjhe. (If you say, if you permit it then I can also help Nandini with cooking the prasad . . . (indistinct) . . . but whatever you feel is right.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, nahi abhi . . . (indistinct) . . . (No no, not now . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Lalaji: Mujhe Bharat bhumi se bohot prem hai. (I love the land of India a lot.)

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalaji: Mujhe Bharat bhumi se prem bohot hai. (I really love the land of India.)

Prabhupāda: Congress man hai na. (You are a Congress Party member that is why.)

Lalaji: (laughs) Ap jante hai jivika uparjana ke liye Congress me kam karta hu, ye to ap shuru se hi jante the. (You already know that I work for the Congress just to earn my living.)

Prabhupāda: To usme shastra me usko zyada credit nahi diya gaya. (So the scriptures haven't given much credit to this.) Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Ye jo nationalism hai, ye bhauma ijya-dhīḥ . . . (This nationalism, this bhauma ijya-dhīḥ . . .) the conception of worshiping the land, bhauma. Bhauma means land, bhūmi. Ijya, ijya means worshipable. So one who thinks that bhauma, bhūmi, anything made of bhūmi, earth, worshipable . . .

Lalaji: I don't call it worshipable, Prabhupāda, but I have more . . . (indistinct) . . . with this land, because . . .

Prabhupāda: Kitna land parivartan hua ye bhi to malum hona chahiye. Aj ye dus pachas baras idhar ye land me hai, iske pehle kaun land me tha iska koi pata bhi hai. (How many times the land has changed that should also be known. Now for the past ten or fifty years we are in this land but previous to that who knows we were in which land.) This is all illusion. This jananī janma bhūmi, huh?

Devotee: I'm going for Gurudāsa.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. This ijya-dhīḥ, to worship the land of birth, but bhārata-bhūmi has special, it is pūjyā . . .

Lalaji: That is my contention.

Prabhupāda: Not, not as nationality.

Lalaji: Not as nationality. There are more . . .

Prabhupāda: But the land where Lord Kṛṣṇa came, Lord Rāma came, Lord Caitanya came, that land is certainly worshipable. That is another thing. In that way . . .

Lalaji: In that way I was saying that more essential that we talk more of spiritualism here. I don't know whether they talk it in other countries or not. But we do here more of it.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Other countries all they have got high respect for India as spiritual land. But we are killing, our present government and so-called leaders, killing that state. This is regrettable. They could hold this Bhārata-varṣa to the topmost summit all over the India if after Independence they would have organizedly preached Bhagavad-gītā and the Vedic culture. That is my mission. Now, whatever you may think of Bhārata-varṣa, outside, India is known as a poor . . . poorest country, because our ministers go there to beg.

Lalaji: Prabhupāda, you have said that, really good, what I read this morning, that if . . . yudha . . . comes, we have to fight. Did you say to the people . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. They asked me, I said.

Lalaji: That's what we want to hear now, you know.

Prabhupāda: So these messages are very nice? (laughs)

Devotee (3): What did you say to them, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What was the language?

Lalaji: Language was when the war comes, Kṛṣṇa also said . . . asked Arjuna to fight.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalaji: If it's a just war, you have to fight.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalaji: So that if it's a just war, we are going to fight. And the war is coming, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Why should we be afraid of fighting?

Lalaji: We are not afraid of fighting.

Prabhupāda: We never . . . the Bhagavad-gītā never says that when enemy attacks, you become nonviolent. No, no. Never says. Rather, Gandhi said that, "Yes, I shall . . ." Somebody asked Gandhiji that "If in your presence your wife or your daughter is ravaged, what you will do?" That question was there, actually. But he said that, "I shall nonviolence upon . . ."

Lalaji: No, no, no Prabhupāda. Then he said: "I'll hit him back." On that condition. He said: "If that comes all right, hit him back."

Prabhupāda: He said that.

Lalaji: He said: "If a duṣṭa does that to you, you hit him back."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our policy. Our ātatāyinaḥ, the śastra, ātatāyinaḥ. Ātatāyinaḥ means a person who usurps my property.

Lalaji: A tyrant.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalaji: A tyrant, ātatāyinaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Aggressor, aggressor.

Lalaji: Aggressor.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalaji: Ātatāyinaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Who sets fire in my home and who wants to kill me, they're called ātatāyinaḥ. So they should be immediately killed. There's no question of nonviolent. And if the Vaiṣṇava is insulted, he should be killed immediately. That is also . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who advised that we should be humbler than the grass, but practically when Nityānanda Prabhu was insulted, He immediately wanted to kill Jagāi and Mādhāi. So these messages . . .

Lalaji: This has touched people.

Prabhupāda: Hah, hah.

Lalaji: This is what they're worried about. Did you know last time there were these signals practicing black-out and all that sort of thing? So now whole country is full of it.

Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra's father, Daśaratha Maharaja, about him it is written, samūla vartham nava dhṛt ariṁśca. There are many qualification. Out of that, one qualification was samula avartham nava dhṛt hariṁś ca. Enemy would come, then he will uproot the whole generation. Samula vartham nava dhṛt hariṁś ca.

Lalaji: After the festival, Prabhupāda, are you going to Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am thinking of. I have not gone for many years.

Lalaji: Your room is very well kept there. I have been to that place myself.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Lalaji: We have seen that your room is kept well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gurudāsa is keeping? So I can go and live in my rooms. The difficulty is that whenever I go, at least another half-a-dozen, one dozen will go.

Lalaji: Naturally.

Devotee: The entourage.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So what shall I do? Therefore, otherwise I liked Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, but . . .

Lalaji: We can find a place for them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalaji: We can just go and arrange it if you allow us.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Lalaji: If few days earlier we go while the festival is on, we can arrange for your place for you and for devotees . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalaji: . . . to stay. I can do that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Lalaji: I'm going a couple of days earlier, anyway.

Prabhupāda: All right. Kya nam tumhara? (What is your name?)

Lalaji: Rohit.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalaji: Rohit.

Prabhupāda: Rohit, yes, I remember.

Lalaji: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Rohit. Rohit was the son of . . .

Lalaji: Hariścandra.

Prabhupāda: Hariścandra, yes. And daughters?

Lalaji: Daughters, they will be bringing with them this evening also, the two daughters.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So how old they are?

Lalaji: One is about seventeen.

Prabhupāda: One I think came yesterday.

Lalaji: Yesterday the two younger ones came. Of the two elder ones, we'll bring this evening. They are eighteen . . . seventeen, eighteen.

Prabhupāda: So . . .

Lalaji: One is studying to be . . .

Prabhupāda: You are trying to find out some groom? Not yet.

Lalaji: Not yet. I have not done anything.

Prabhupāda: I think you can get them married if you find out good boy.

Lalaji: Ap se ashirvad . . . (Your blessings . . .)

Prabhupāda: Working.

Lalaji: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Good health and working. Never mind rich or poor.

Lalaji: No, no I am myself poor, why should I . . . (indistinct) . . . for a rich . . .

Prabhupāda: You should see that he is good health and working. That's all. Not idle.

So in your community I . . . (break) (end)