711111 - Conversation - Delhi
(this page was renamed and can be found here)
(kīrtana in background)
Mauritius man: Hmm. I think U.P.
Mauritius man: Yeah, the majority of the people from Mauritius are of Indian origin.
Prabhupāda: That's good.
Mauritius man: And Bhagavad-gītā is always there.
Mauritius man: And all.
Prabhupāda: I see. (break)
Mauritius man: . . . your blessings on Mauritius some time?
Prabhupāda: Yes, welcome. You arrange, we shall go. I'm going to Africa . . .
Mauritius man: Ah.
Prabhupāda: . . . by the twenty-third. So if you can arrange, we can go.
Mauritius man: All right, I'd be delighted to.
Prabhupāda: How far it is from Nairobi?
Mauritius man: From?
Prabhupāda: Nairobi. How far it is?
Mauritius man: Ah. About two hours' flight.
Prabhupāda: Two hours?
Mauritius man: Yes, only. Very close.
Prabhupāda: About 1,000 miles?
Mauritius man: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not very far.
Mauritius man: Yes, not far. If you keep in touch with me, we shall try to see the . . . who looks after the program of Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: He is in charge of Africa.
Mauritius man: I see.
Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda Swami.
Mauritius man: I see, very good.
Prabhupāda: He's American.
Mauritius man: Ah-hah.
Prabhupāda: But he has taken to the mission for preaching in Africa. (break) . . . (indistinct)
Mauritius man: Yes, I find them very devoted and loyal.
Prabhupāda: Indians are not very forward.
Mauritius man: Very good.
Prabhupāda: (to someone entering) Aiye! Aiye! (Come! Come!)
Mauritius man: How many of . . . (break)
Indian man: I'm a Hindu.
Mauritius man: (indistinct Hindi)
Indian man: I'm a Hindu. . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)
Indian man: I was teaching in a . . . (indistinct) . . . temple in South India, from India . . . (indistinct) . . . Face to face.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Indian man: (indistinct) . . . I been living for the last nineteen years in this district . . . (indistinct) . . . Holy Village . . . (indistinct) . . . (Bengali) . . .
Prabhupāda: Holy Village?
Indian man: Holy Village.
Prabhupāda: In Bombay?
Indian man: Bombay, I mean he passed away in 1956, Bengali. Disciple of Svāmī . . . (indistinct) . . . I'm a freedom fighter and a journalist. (Hindi) And then I've been a journalist . . . (indistinct) . . . Now I'm representative of the . . . (indistinct) . . . to start a home center like an āśrama for aged freedom fighters. This Maṭha . . .
Indian man: For aged and for freedom fighters, to start. They are given the pension of . . . (indistinct) . . . and to give them more. Not only . . . These Christians, they have started . . . I mean, Christians have laid the foundation stone for aged (indistict) and the government. There are so many, I mean in Bombay also there are so many also aged . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many . . . (indistinct)
Indian man: Let me take blessings of Lord Kṛṣṇa also, Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa Mandir . . .
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's blessings are everywhere. (break)
Indian man: . . . open.
Prabhupāda: But nobody is prepared to take it. Kṛṣṇa says:
- sarva-dharmān parityajya
- mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja
- ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo
- (BG 18.66)
"Just take shelter of Me and I will protect you from the reactions of all sinful life." Because here in the material world everyone is sinful—and there is reaction. He gives assurance that "I will give you protection from the reactions of sinful life. Just surrender unto Me." But nobody is doing it.
Indian man: Swāmījī, your blessings that I will surrender.
Indian man: Your kindly blessings that I surrender.
Prabhupāda: Surrender means this, that "Kṛṣṇa, so long I was forgotten that missing You. Now I have gotten from this day I surrender unto You. Whatever You like, You can do it." That's all.
Indian man: Swāmījī, I will request you to kindly give me that feeling of dedication and surrender. Bless me to have that feeling.
Prabhupāda: It does not require—you simply . . . (indistinct) . . . let him come. Anyone wants to come, let him come. Just like one man has fallen in the well, and he's crying, "Please get me . . . get me out. Somebody please get some rope. Just catch it, I'll take it." Then where is the question now of getting a blessing? Here is the blessing: take it. But if you don't catch, or if you say that "Give me the strength to catch," this is not very good argument. Here is the rope; you catch it. That's all. But nobody is prepared to do that. Otherwise, the solution is there.
Indian man: The situation is the guru is the one who catches?
Prabhupāda: The guru is speaking . . . guru is speaking: "Here is a bag of million dollars. Take it," then if you take . . . why don't you take it? If you don't take it, then how you can get rich? Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo, but nobody is taking it.
These European and American boys, they are taking it up and they are advancing. But if you are not prepared to take, how you will advance? It is a plea, that "You give me your grace so that I can catch this . . . that goal of devotion," is that right? I'm already offering you the rope; you catch it. That is the difficulty.
These people, they have taken it, they have surrendered, they are making progress. It is not very difficult. Just see how they are dancing in esctasy. These European boys and girls, they are in ecstasy. There is a girl, her father is a very rich man in Chicago—that is a big businessman—and she is with us. She is married; she has got husband. I get them married.
Indian man: That's good.
Prabhupāda: This is the first time in history that a sannyāsī is taking part in marriage making.
Mauritius man: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What can be done? I have to. I cannot allow them to live as friends, you know. That is not.
Indian man: . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In Europe and America the boys and girls live as friends. I don't allow. They must get married. Kṛṣṇa can protect you from all the past sinful activities, but if you again commit, that is not good. So the illicit sex is sinful activity. As soon as you surrender, Kṛṣṇa excuses you from your past habits. But you don't commit again. That is our . . . just like one is insolvent, so in insolvency the court hears his excuse: "All right, but don't take any more debt."
Mauritius man: That is the one.
Indian man: At the end of that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if he takes debt, that is criminal if he is insolvent person. Just like in the court if he takes again debt, that will be criminal. The court says that, "You are unable to pay. All right, your former debts are all . . ."
Indian man: Squashed up.
Prabhupāda: ". . . cleared . . ."
Indian man: Cleared of insolvency.
Prabhupāda: ". . . burnt up. But don't take again." Our is like that. Kṛṣṇa says: "All right, whatever sinful activities are done, I clear, but don't do again." That is required. One must be determined that, "Whatever I have done, that's all right, that is being excused, but no more doing." And if we think that "Now I have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa and I will go on committing all sinful activities, and He'll excuse . . ." Eh? Like the Christian people say . . .
Indian man: Ah.
Prabhupāda: . . . that, "Our religion is very good because Jesus Christ suffered for all our sins, so we can go on committing our sinful life, and Jesus Christ will suffer." That is not very good proposal. Jesus Christ has once, for all, he has sacrificed his life for the sins of others, and if you make a contract that, "You go on suffering for us, and we will go on committing sin," that is not a very good proposition.
Indian man: Selfish motive. Self-interest.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedic scriptures it is said, nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ (Bhakti-sandarbhaḥ 173), that this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa means you become free from all sinful activities. But it does not mean that you again commit sinful activities and you think that "I will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and it will be counteracted."
Once you are forgiven, twice you are excused, but not for the third time. It's like in criminal court also. The magistrate, if the criminal says: "Sir, I did not know what was my . . . (indistinct) . . ." "All right, excused. Don't do it again." But if he every time says, that will not . . . (indistinct)
Indian man: . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, people are kept in ignorance. The enlightenment is there, Bhagavad-gītā, but they are not taking it. They are not taking it. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, everything is there. You can become very happy, this life, next life and so on. They do not know how to become happy.
They want to become happy in their own way. It is entangling them, and people are suggesting, "Yes, you can execute your religious principle in your own way." How it is that? That's where they go to it. You cannot execute law in your own way. You must accept the laws of the state and execute it properly . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) . . . (indistinct)
Indian man: (indistinct) . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa (break) (kīrtana concludes) (break) (end)