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711213 - Lecture - Delhi

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



711213LE-DELHI - December 13, 1971 - 18:48 Minutes



Devotee: Morning, December 13th, Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Dharma, I have explained, occupational duty. So long we have got this material body, we have got particular type of occupational duty. We are preaching to the world not any occupational duty, but we are preaching eternal duty.

This occupational duty is in connection with the body. That is not eternal. Suppose this life I've got a body, human body or Brāhmiṇ body or a son in the Rockefeller family, and according to that body I have got a particular type of duty, standard of living. Deha-yogena dehinām (SB 7.6.3). But as soon as the body's changed—I get another body—the whole duty changed. Now I may have a very comfortable body, American body, Rockefeller family body, but next life, according to my karma, we are preparing our next life.

Suppose if I get the body of a dog, then my occupational duty will be "Gow! Gow!" Because according to the body the duty is changed. So these occupational duties, they are not permanent. But I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). By the destruction of this body, I am not destroyed. I remain, I simply enter another body. I, as spirit soul, I remain. Just like I'm entering different bodies in this life. I was a child, I enter another body.

Just like this small child, Sarasvatī. According to the body, she is acting. She's acting sometimes nonsense, but we take it delight, because she is child. But the same nonsense if I do in another body, a grown-up body, that will be ridiculous. In this child body, she is naked, but people enjoy it. But when she is grown up and she is ladylike, she is young girl, if she becomes naked, oh, that is ridiculous. So here in this life also we see according to the change of the body, the duty is changing, the activities are changing.

So, this body is changing, that's a fact. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Just like in this life we are changing different types of bodies, similarly, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, another body. These rascals, they do not understand the simple reasoning. Simple logic they cannot understand—still they argue, "What is the proof there is transmigration of the soul?" Here is the proof. Now this child, Sarasvatī, when she is a grown-up lady she'll not act like that. But everyone will accept her, Sarasvatī, the same character. Her father, mother, relatives, everything there: Sarasvatī has got another body.

So what is the difficulty to understand this logic, that the soul is immortal and the body is changing? What is the difficulty? Just try to understand. You have to preach immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. What is the difficulty? Simple logic. What is the difficulty? Can anyone say? No difficulties? Will you be able to convince others?

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: I think people will argue that just because a child develops to a certain stage, what is the indication that he will develop after that stage? In other words, if I go from birth, youth, old age, then what is to say that I am again going to youth? They will say: "What is that logic? How I will go again to youth? Simply I will go again and vanish away," or something like that. They do not know . . .

Prabhupāda: No, that example is given. Just like this garment I am using. So when it becomes too old, torn or something, so I will throw it away—I take another. What is the difficulty? When this body I am growing or changing, whatever the Christians say, but when it is no more workable, I give it up; I take another. What is the difficulty?

Nara-Nārāyaṇa: The materialistic man will think, "Well, I am voluntarily giving up my clothing, but I'm involuntarily giving up my body." And the mode . . .

Prabhupāda: Voluntarily, involuntarily, that is another thing. Just like a child does not know that his coat is useless, but mother comes and changes the garment. Therefore it is changing. That's a fact. It doesn't matter whether you are changing voluntarily or involuntarily; that is not very important thing. You are changing. That's a fact. Yes?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What they will argue, perhaps, materialists may argue that, "We can see that Sarasvatī is changing from the time she was a little girl and now she is a little older, we have seen her both times, but at the time of death we have not seen the next body of anyone.

Prabhupāda: But why do you believe so much your rascal eyes? That is the answer. Do you think that your eyes are perfect? There are many types of seeing. Not that simply with glaring eyesight you can see. You can see what is Sarasvatī , you are seeing the body. What is Sarasvatī, do you know? So what you are seeing?

You are seeing the body. So what is the power of your seeing? There is another body, suka body, subtle body. Can you see the mind? But everyone has got mind. Can you see intelligence? But everyone has got intelligence. So what is the power of your seeing? Why you are so much proud of your seeing, nonsense seeing?

Devotee (1): If our seeing is imperfect, we can see the change of body but we cannot see change, the transmigration of the soul.

Prabhupāda: You cannot see anything. Your power of seeing is so limited that you cannot see anything. Therefore you have to see through Kṛṣṇa, through Bhagavad-gītā. You are seeing the sun just like a disc. But when you see through astronomy, then you will understand it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. So what is the power of your seeing? Why you are so much proud of seeing? This is nonsense.

Why do you go to school? To learn how to see.

(aside) Why . . . you can sit down.

Anyone who hasn't got . . . never gone to school, never taken an education, his seeing and a perfect M.A., Ph.D. person's seeing, is that all right, the same thing? Then why you are proud of your nonsense seeing? This is his answer. You have to prepare your eyes to see. Yout these . . . these eyes have no value. Your argument on the imperfect experience of the senses has no value. Yes?

Lady devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a person is in a five-year-old body and they are . . . (indistinct) . . . possible to have another body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, every moment. That is the medical science. Every second we are changing body. We are changing the corpuscles of blood; therefore my body is changing.

Lady devotee (2): So the minute we die, we reincarnate in another body . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, immediately. It is just like it is said that you forward one step. When you see that the forward step is right place, then you take the other step. Like this. When you find this is solid, then you take it away, then you put again. It is like that. So at the time of death, as soon as it is settled up that this soul should migrate to such and such body, by superior . . . it is not in my hand. Daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Daiva-netreṇa means by superior examination. That is called the day of judgment in the Bible. Whether this soul is going to hell or heaven, that is the day of judgment.

But they have insufficient knowledge, therefore they think that all the souls, after death, they lie down for perpetually. It is not that. Actually the judgment is there immediately, and he gets another birth, either hell or heaven. Not that he has to wait for the day of judgment. Immediately the day of judgment is . . . it is does not linger, it is not ordinary court, that you have to wait for your judgment for three years or . . . no, immediately. Immediately it is settled up, and the soul is transferred to the father and the . . . that is material process, how the body will grow.

That is also arranged by prakṛti, by nature, under the direction of the Supreme. Just like if you have to paint something, then you have to secure different colors, different . . . similarly, the particular type of body the soul will get, how it is to be manufactured, that is also by superior intelligence. The soul is put into the semina of a particular type of father, and that quality of the semina mixes with the mother's secretion, then that grows. This is the arrangement.

Svābhāviki bala-kriyā ca (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.7-8). Svābhāvikī. You have to think how this body will be manufactured, but Kṛṣṇa is so intelligent, His potencies are so great, that simply He . . . "This soul should get such-and-such body"—immediately it is manufactured and comes out. This is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8, CC Madhya 13.65, purport). You cannot manufacture this. But under Kṛṣṇa's direction there are certain energies which can immediately manufacture.

But the rascal says: "Automatically it is coming." Not automatically. There is brain, there is energy, there is discretion, there is judgment. There is all these things. Then it will come out with another body. Not blindly. The rascals, they see, "It is coming out blindly." No.

How much the mechanism is there within the body that they are working so nicely? Two kinds of secretion mix, and immediately they get energy. The mother eating; from that eating the child is also eating, the intestine is connected . . . (indistinct) . . . how much mechanical arrangement is there? Can any medical science, any scientist connect . . . (indistinct) . . . even this is matter? Even this is matter, let them manufacture outside this body another body. No.

We . . . suppose we have to manufacture something, a small watch. That particular watch has to be manufactured. But Kṛṣṇa has created so nicely that two machines—one male machine, one female machine—and they're joining, and so many machines are coming out. Not that each and every particular machine body has to be tackled. Kṛṣṇa has made so nice arrangement, His intelligence is so sharp, the potency is there that one male machine, one female machine, and they are producing unlimited number of machines. You have to manufacture a machine, a car, in the factory in so many ways. This is Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. How nice intelligence, how His energies are acting, so who can explain this? Therefore acintya. Acintya. Acintya means inconceivable.

So unless you accept Kṛṣṇa's inconceivable energy, we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. There is no possibility. Inconceivable, acintya. Everything is acintya. So, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet (Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma parva 5.22), this is the injunction of the Vedas: "Things which are beyond your thinking, don't talk nonsense, don't put nonsense arguments to understand it. Better accept it." Therefore you have to accept the Vedic knowledge without any argument. That is knowledge, perfect knowledge. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And one who has got a spiritual master, expert in the Vedic knowledge, then his life is successful. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet.

Therefore you must approach a spiritual master in order to understand that science. Samit-pāniḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). This is the injunction. These things, how you can calculate by argument? Therefore they are called nāstika. Atheist means one who does not believe in the verdict of the Vedas. That is called atheist. Atheist. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta' nāstika (CC Madhya 6.168).

Buddha, the Buddhists . . . Buddhists, although we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation, but at the same time we accept them as nāstika, atheist. How Kṛṣṇa becomes atheist? That is Kṛṣṇa's concern. But we have to study what He is doing. One side He is acting as atheist, that is His policy. That is also explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sammohāya sura-dviṣām (SB 1.3.24): just to teach other atheists, He has become atheist. Because He had to preach among other atheist class of men, He became an atheist: "Yes, there is no God.

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