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720825 - Lecture SB 01.02.22 - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720825SB-LOS ANGELES - August 25, 1972 - 33:50 Minutes

(Govindam prayers playing) (Prabhupāda sings along)

Prabhupāda: (sings Jaya Rādhā-Mādhava) (prema-dhvani) Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Śrī Guru and Gauranga. (devotees offer obeisances)

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (leads chanting of verse) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

ato vai kavayo nityaṁ
bhaktiṁ paramayā mudā
vāsudeve bhagavati
kurvanty ātma-prasādanīm
(SB 1.2.22)

Prabhupāda: (interrupts devotees' chanting of verse) The word, not "vay", it is vai (pronounces "voy"). (chanting resumes) Ladies. Ladies. (ladies chant) That's all. Now, word meaning.


ataḥ—therefore; vai—certainly; kavayaḥ—all transcendentalists; nityam—from time immemorial; bhaktim—service unto the Lord; paramayā—supreme; mudā—with great delight; vāsudeve—Śrī Kṛṣṇa; bhagavati—the Personality of Godhead; kurvanti—do render; ātma—self; prasādanīm—that which enlivens.

Translation: "Therefore all transcendentalists have been rendering loving service with great delight to Lord Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, from time immemorial because such devotional service is enlivening to the self."

Prabhupāda: So "therefore." The word is "therefore." "Therefore" means after concluding something, then we say: "therefore." When we talk, when we argue, when we come to the conclusion, then we say: "therefore." Or when our argument is strong, then we say: "therefore." So this "therefore" means that one is firmly convinced. As it is described in the previous verse, bhidyate hṛdaya-granthiś chidyante sarva-saṁśayāḥ. Sarva-saṁśayāḥ. Saṁśaya means doubtfulness.

Now this morning we were talking with our scientist friend whether the ultimate source of everything . . . first of all, the conclusion is that everything is . . . are relatively situated here. Just like some gentleman, he is son of another gentleman, relative. Then his father is also son of another gentleman. So our this world is relative, depending one thing upon another. Nobody is self-independent. This is going on. Then . . . so find out the original source of everything, that original source, whether it is senscient or insenscient.

The conclusion is original source must be senscient. Because in this, our experience, experimental knowledge, we see something matter and something living. I am seeing here is a small ant and here is a big stone. The big stone is insenscient, it cannot move. For millions of years you wait, whether the stone will move—you cannot see. No, it will not move, because it is insenscient, whereas a small ant, it is going. You just check its marching, it will struggle. It will struggle—this way, this way, this way. And ultimately you have to give way. This is senscient. Therefore senscient is superior.

There are two things within our experience: one, matter, not senscient; and another senscient. So this . . . now, I am seer. Or sometimes I control both these things. But I am not supreme controller. But I can observe that there are two things, senscient and insenscient, and I am observing. So for the time being, I am superior of both the senscient and nonsenscient. So the conclusion is the ultimate source of everything, ultimate knower, ultimate analyzer, must be a senscient. It cannot be insenscient. That is experimental knowledge.

So in this way, this, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, bhāgavata-dharma, it is not sentiment. We can explain how God created. Sometimes it is, in Bible, it is said: "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." But they cannot explain. Therefore in the modern age, scientifically advanced, they do not take it. But we can explain. Our bhāgavata-dharma can explain how, simply by desiring, there is creation.

So here it is said, chidyante sarva-saṁśayāḥ. Chidyante. Chidyante sarva-saṁśayāḥ. One, by this, following this bhāgavata-dharma, studying from Bhāgavata, the ultimate knowledge of everything, one can become completely doubtless that God is a person, He is senscient, He is the supreme director, He's the supreme knower, He's the supreme physist, the supreme chemist—everything, supreme.

Just like Kṛṣṇa lifted the mountain, giri-bara-dhārī. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī gopī-jana-vallabha giri-bara-dhārī. When there was torrents of rain, Vṛndāvana was being overflooded, and all the inhabitants became so much disturbed. They were seeing to . . . looking to Kṛṣṇa, because they did not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, "Yes, I am lifting this mountain. Let it become a big umbrella of the whole state, or whole village."

The atheist will say these are all stories. No. They're not stories. Because God is supreme, He is supreme physist, He knows how to make this mountain weightless. He knows the art. Just like so many gigantic planets are floating in the sky. That is a fact. Now who is floating? You cannot float even a small thing in the air, but such gigantic . . . not only one, millions and trillions, they are floating. Who has made it possible, floating? So, God can do that. Therefore He is called all-powerful, the great.

So if Kṛṣṇa is God, then floating, or make this mountain weightless, is it very difficult task for Him? No. He entered the ocean. Unless He knows the physical laws how to enter the ocean . . . it is technique only. Modern scientists, they are also entering, by machine. They're floating by machine. That is also physical science. So if you know the physical science still more perfectly, you can float in the air without machine, you can enter within the water without machine, you can lift the mountain without machine. It is a question of perfect knowledge. (knocking sound) What is that knock, sound? (indistinct explanation by devotee)

So here it is said that when you are actually advanced in spiritual knowledge, in devotional service, then chidyante sarva-saṁśayaḥ. Saṁśaya means doubtfulness. Sometimes . . . yes. Generally, "Oh, these are stories. Kṛṣṇa lifted a mountain." Because atheists say and we say: "Yes, maybe." But no. You must be firmly convinced, yourself, if you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa did it." It is possible, because He knew the physical science very perfectly. He knows and He, He can know, He can do it, one thing into another. Just like electrician, he can turn cooler into heater, heater into cooler, because he knows the science. You cannot do.

So don't study Kṛṣṇa thinking yourself as Kṛṣṇa that, "I am also as skilled as Kṛṣṇa." No. That is the defect. Everyone thinks that frog philosophy. Frog philosophy, he has got experience of three-feet well, and he has been informed that there is Atlantic Ocean. He's simply imagining, "How it is possible? How it is possible?" He is thinking maybe little more—four feet, five feet, six feet, ten feet—and as soon as ten feet he's burst. Because he has no more knowledge. But how the three-feet well can be compared with the Atlantic Ocean? That he does not know.

So we are think . . . we have got limited energy, creative energy, so-called scientific knowledge, so-called other knowledge. Limited. Because our senses are limited. And we are thinking that God may be a little bigger than me, Kṛṣṇa? But as soon as it comes to the point that He . . . He can lift the mountain and the world, the planet, then they doubt.

That is saṁśaya. But actually, if you are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you must be free from all doubts. You must know perfectly well what is Kṛṣṇa. So that is also possible by devotional service. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55): "If one wants to understand Me perfectly . . ." Kṛṣṇa cannot be understood perfectly, but still, just to drive away our doubts . . . because we have got so many doubts. So that doubts can be also dissipated bhaktyā, by bhakti.

How? Why not by knowledge? Because there are three ways: karma, jñāna, bhakti. By knowledge, scientific knowledge, Kṛṣṇa cannot be known. Why bhakti? Why Kṛṣṇa is prescribing bhakti? No. By knowledge, so-called knowledge, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the so-called scientists, they are in doubts. It is not possible. If you think that "I shall speculate. Through knowledge, I shall understand God," that is not possible. Because God is unlimited; your knowledge is limited. How you can know God? How the bhaktas—they are not scientists, not educated very much—how they can know? Yes, they can know. How? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ
bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam
dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam . . .
(BG 10.10)

Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. Tam means "unto Him." Whom? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. Those who are engaged in devotional service with love and faith. Because God is within you. You haven't got to search out where is God. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām, hṛdy antaḥ-sthaḥ (BG 18.61).

We have begun this chapter śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ . . . (SB 1.2.17).

(aside) You are sleeping, this boy.

Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. Anyone who is engaged in hearing about Kṛṣṇa . . . to whom? To Him, not those who are sleeping. Those who are actually hearing, śṛṇvatām. Śṛṇvatām means hearing, not sleeping. To such person. Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, and engaged in devotional service. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam, "I give intelligence." It doesn't require . . . if he's sincere, if he's actually a devotee, Kṛṣṇa will help him.

Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Guru is secondary, another mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is helping within and without. That without help is guru, Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa is always ready to help us, and when Kṛṣṇa is helping us, it is very easy to understand Him. Therefore a devotee is beyond all doubts. Beyond all doubts. There is no doubt. Not that blindly we are accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No. We have got all our arguments, scientific, philosophical, anything. Then we accept Kṛṣṇa. That acceptance is nice. That is uttama-adhikārī.

Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī and uttama-adhikārī. There are three stages of devotees—lower class, middle class and first class. The first-class devotee is without any doubt. The third-class devotee, he's accepting, he's accepting: "Here is God," that's all. But he has many doubts. The second class, he, although he has got doubts, he's accepting on the authority of Vedas. That is second class. And the first class, he knows perfectly well that "Here is God."

That is the . . . the sarva-saṁśayaḥ. Chidyante. They are beyond all doubts. "Yes, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Here is Kṛṣṇa. In this temple here is my Lord is standing. He has very kindly, mercifully, He has come to accept my service." That is first-class devotee. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu: as soon as He saw Jagannātha in the temple, immediately fainted. "Here is My Lord; I was searching after."

So there are stages. So those who are first class . . . here it is stated ato vai kavayaḥ. Kavayaḥ means first class. Ato vai kavayo nityam. Perpetually, eternally. Bhaktiṁ paramayā mudā: devotional service. Transcendental, paramayā. The devotional service . . . for the third-class devotee, the devotional service is also third class.

And the . . . although third class, first class, second class, we are distinguishing, it is not ordinary, material first class, second class. Even in the spiritual world there is such divisions. The same division. Just like in the light, in the sunlight, there is division: the sunshine, the sun globe and the sun god. There are three divisions. It is not that because you are in the sunshine you know what is the sun globe or what is sun god. That is another stage.

Similarly, just to become a devotee on the devotional service, there are stages. Stages. That is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī. So uttama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī first class. He's firmly convinced, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Nobody can deviate. He can convert others to understand Kṛṣṇa, that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but nobody can convert him that Kṛṣṇa is not God. That is not possible. That is first class.

So here it is said: ato vai kavayo nityaṁ bhaktiṁ paramayā mudā vāsudeve bhagavati (SB 1.2.22). Therefore those who are actually in the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, science of God, they firmly fixed up in the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati. Then what about the third class? The third class also, if he stick to the devotional service according to the rules and regulation, vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ nayojitaḥ . . . (SB 1.2.7). Nayojita means "Just begun." Janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. Then that devotional service to Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, will gradually help him how to become vairāgya, how to become detached with material attraction, and how to acquire knowledge about Kṛṣṇa. Everything will come.

So for the kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, we must stick to the principle. Gradually, everything will be revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). In the beginning, because we have got blunt material senses, we cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa's service; ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi . . . what is Kṛṣṇa's chanting of name. We are thinking that this is chanting, just like we chant so many vibrations, this is also like that. We cannot understand. But if we take up all this devotional service in right earnestness to serve the Lord, then everything will be gradually revealed.

That is required. But if we become slack in following the rules and regulation, then we remain the third class. We cannot raise ourself to the second-class, first-class position. Therefore all doubts remain. This is the position.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) (end)