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730719 - Conversation A - London

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730719R1-LONDON - July 19, 1973 - 07:00 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). Paśyanti, this word is there. Yoginaḥ paśyanti, they see; dhyānāvasthita, by meditation.

Revatīnandana: This is the Sixth Chapter Bhagavad-gītā? Is that what you're quoting?

Prabhupāda: No, this is in Bhāgavata.

Revatīnandana: I see. But that seeing . . .

Prabhupāda: That seeing is not ānanda. Seeing is ānanda, undoubtedly, but seeing and talking and becoming friend, that is higher. Friend or conjugal lover, father, mother, that kind of seeing is different.

Revatīnandana: If that yogī quits his body in that condition, does he attain a Vaikuṇṭha planet?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Revatīnandana: Is it possible that if he was not . . . this is a question that sometimes a devotee has asked me. If a yogī does attain a Vaikuṇṭha planet, but by his constitutional nature he is meant to be associated with Kṛṣṇa in Goloka . . .

Prabhupāda: No, why not with Viṣṇu?

Revatīnandana: But some . . . no.

Prabhupāda: Vaikuṇṭha is Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. That is also . . . but there Nārāyaṇa is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship, as in Vṛndāvana. That is not possible.

Revatīnandana: The question is like . . .

Prabhupāda: Vipralambha-sakhya. Aiśvarya, aiśvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aiśvarya, opulences. Not aiśvarya-sthiti. In Vṛndāvana the devotees, they practically do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God, "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuṇṭha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.

Revatīnandana: That I understand. The question is supposing this yogī, he has not got full knowledge, he does not know of Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is meditating on Paramātmā, and he attains Vaikuṇṭha. Is it possible that because he hadn't got full knowledge . . .

Prabhupāda: No, he has to go . . . simply by Paramātmā conception he cannot go to Vaikuṇṭha.

Revatīnandana: Can he later go on from Vaikuṇṭha to Goloka? Can that happen also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is such instances, can go.

Revatīnandana: But if a devotee knows Kṛṣṇa, if he knows of Kṛṣṇa, then wherever he is destined, he will go perfectly to his perfect position. Just like Bhīṣma knew Kṛṣṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Mad-yājino yānti mām (BG 9.25). Kṛṣṇa devotees, they go directly, especially those who are worshiping Kṛṣṇa through Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They directly go to Kṛṣṇaloka.

Revatīnandana: What about like the case of Bhīṣmadeva, where he knew about Kṛṣṇa in Goloka, and he went to Kṛṣṇa as Pārtha-sārathi?

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa . . . he understood Kṛṣṇa as Nārāyaṇa. He will go to Vaikuṇṭha, Bhīṣmadeva.

Revatīnandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahājana. He knew also . . .

Prabhupāda: But he loved Nārāyaṇa, catur-bhuja.

Revatīnandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.

Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes mādhurya-rasa is the greatest humor . . .

Revatīnandana: Who?

Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same. All the same. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa devotee and Nārāyaṇa devotee. They are all the . . . but it is their liking, varieties of liking.

Revatīnandana: Another, related question that also arose . . . these come in Bhāgavata class with the devotees, because they think about the questions, and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Kṛṣṇa is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varāha, Nṛsiṁha, like that, He's appearing . . .

Prabhupāda: That is in this material world.

Revatīnandana: Yes. And sometimes devotees become devoted to those forms. Are there corresponding planets in Vaikuṇṭha for those forms of incarnation? Is there a planet of Nṛsiṁha, or Nṛsiṁha-loka in the Vaikuṇṭha sphere?

Prabhupāda: So far I know, those planets are here within this material world.

Revatīnandana: Wherever He is appearing.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Even Rāmacandra's. So far I have . . .

Revatīnandana: On all the Vaikuṇṭhas, Kṛṣṇa is in His catur-bhuja, four-armed form?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Revatīnandana: But those devotees will eventually go there. Those kind of devotees like the devotees of Sītā-Rāma, they will also attain the spiritual sky in their various positions?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Revatīnandana: All right. Thank you very much. (offers obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is this?

Jānakī: One is rice and the other, bāratas.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jānakī: Milk, hot.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Jānakī: I think that other thing was not good idea.

Prabhupāda: No, it was too cold.

Jānakī: Yes, it reduces heat. I will bring some hot pepper.

Revatīnandana: Glories to Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)