Go to Vaniquotes | Go to Vanipedia | Go to Vanimedia

Vanisource - the complete essence of Vedic knowledge

730813 - Conversation B - Paris

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730813R2-PARIS - August 13, 1973 - 38:17 Minutes

(Conversation with Rosicrucians - translated simultaneously from and into French by Yogeśvara and Guru-gaurāṅga with "breaks" throughout)

Yogeśvara: . . . Mr. Belfiore and his wife Mrs. Belfiore. Mr. Belfiore is the Regional (French: asks exact title), the Inspector General for the French area, Paris area, for the Rosicrucian movement, the Rosicrucian order.

Prabhupāda: What is that Rosicrucian?

Yogeśvara: Huh. It is a very big religious movement all around the world.

(Yogeśvara speaks in French with Mr. Belfiore and then translates for Śrīla Prabhupāda throughout)

He says: "Our movement is very well known in the United States. Have you never come across our Society?" No, I don't think . . .

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Prabhupāda: What is the aim of this movement?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: The evolution of man.

Prabhupāda: Evolution of man. So man is going to evolve more? What is that ultimate evolution?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: To a reintegration of man with the cosmos, or cosmic consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Cosmic consciousness. We also believe individual consciousness and cosmic consciousness. We are now studying this subject matter in our class: kṣetra-kṣetra-jña. So kṣetra-jña, the knower . . . the individual soul is also knower, conscious, and the Supersoul, God, is also conscious. So we also admit universal consciousness, that is God's consciousness. (break) . . . consciousness is limited.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . is studying the same thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the evolution, when our consciousness is in agreement with the supreme consciousness. (break) That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucian order is a mystical and philosophical order that allows its students . . .

Prabhupāda: Who is Rosin? He is a philosopher?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that the term Rosicrucian means . . . it's an image of a cross with a rose in the center. It means that the disciple is aspiring towards the perfection of his consciousness, and that this also means the perfection of consciousness.

Prabhupāda: So what is the ideal of that perfection of consciousness?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says it is love.

Prabhupāda: Love, that's nice. Very good. So the supreme consciousness and our individual consciousness, when they are in exchange of love, that is perfection. Is that . . .? (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . that this ultimate consciousness is one of union with the Absolute, that it is one of light, of samādhi, of total love. This is the highest.

Prabhupāda: So love, love . . . when we speak of love, there must be two persons. (Yogeśvara translates) So what is their philosophy?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: The love of which they are speaking is a love that binds everything together, that bathes everything in light and love.

Prabhupāda: So there is no action. No action?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: No, he says there is action.

Prabhupāda: What are those activities?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: Giving.

Prabhupāda: Giving and taking also.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . there is giving. There is also taking. But it's not . . . the person who has achieved this ultimate perfection, whenever he takes, he immediately gives it to someone else.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The transaction between two lovers, one gives, another takes. Sometimes one gives, another takes, another gives, and the one takes. This is exchange. Similarly, feeding. I give something to my beloved to eat something; he also, he gives me something, I eat also. Similarly, I disclose my confidence unto my beloved; my beloved also discloses her or his confidence. These are loving exchanges. (break)

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that he understands that we are talking of love meaning two people, but does that mean that . . . why can't we think of love in terms of an exchange between man and everything, between man and the cosmos?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Cosmos represents, as he says, consciousness. That is the person, consciousness. Just like if I love a tree, I love the leaves and twigs also. If I pour water on the root of the tree, it goes to the leaves, twigs, branches, automatically. So if we love the supreme consciousness, Supreme Person, who has got universal consciousness, then automatically my service goes to everywhere.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: This is also what their philosophy is, he says.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot love everyone and anyone or everything without finding out the original source of everything.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: The Rosicrucian order is a school that teaches its students to progress step by step towards that ultimate source of all sources.

Prabhupāda: So what is that step? What is that step?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says it's a gradual progress, that their students come, they receive initiation and then they are guided. They are given certain principles, certain practices, and then gradually, at their own rate, by their own powers, they ultimately arrive at perfection.

Prabhupāda: So what is that ideal of perfection?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: That it is nirvāṇa, it is the kingdom of Lord Jesus Christ. He says it is the ultimate point for which all men are ultimately striving.

Prabhupāda: So what is that? Nirvāṇa means zero. Everyone is trying for the zero?

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: Nirvāṇa means something different for them.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Jyotirmayī: (explaining to Yogeśvara) Is an entrance. It is something alive, real.

Yogeśvara: He says it is an entering into something that is alive and real.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end, but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false, this one is rejected.

Prabhupāda: Why silence?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means . . .

Prabhupāda: He cannot explain.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: It is undescribable, because it's something that's arrived at inside through meditation. You can't really describe it in words.

Prabhupāda: Why? You are describing so many thing in words, and the ultimate goal you cannot describe?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that many great masters like you, from the East, tend to smile at their explanations, but he . . .

Guru-gaurāṅga: "They tend to smile when this question is asked, 'Who am I?' So what can I say compared to these masters?"

Prabhupāda: That means his knowledge is not perfect.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: His knowledge is not perfect, and like us, he is simply trying for perfect knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So unless you have got your goal perfectly known, how you can make progress?

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . their organization is the guru, and their whole organization knows the ultimate goal which they can attain.

Prabhupāda: And he is part of that organization—he does not know.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says that evolution of man, which is the goal of this order, is something that is mystical. It is not scientific, that it is so easily . . .

Prabhupāda: That means it is pale. It is not distinct.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he is surprised that we raise such objections. He thought that we were also searching for something mystical. He says he's heard our chanting.

Prabhupāda: Who, who? Who?

Yogeśvara: He said he thought we were also searching.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa. We have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa.

(break) . . . Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got His form, He has got His place, He has got His name, He has got His pastimes, and we want to enter in that kingdom.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that he thinks . . . he thought that in our Movement we were following Ramakrishna, who had discovered everything.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Ramakrishna we kick out. We don't.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he's not familiar personally with him.

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna is bogus.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that this is not a new order, this Rosicrucian order. It goes back at least as far as Ancient Egypt.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but you do not know what is the aim of your this progress.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says all he can is repeat to you his answer previously, which is that is to reach the perfection of consciousness, at which point man is in communion, in unity with the beyond. He calls it the cela (c'est la?), "The inexplicable."

Prabhupāda: But he cannot express what is that beyond.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: It's divine consciousness.

Prabhupāda: But he cannot describe what is God. That is imperfect knowledge.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that communion with God is something that is subjective, it's something you experience, not that you describe.

Prabhupāda: That is not perfect.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that according to every individual's place of birth, his age, his upbringing, he will experience this communion with God differently.

Prabhupāda: No. God is God. If the experience will have to be taken from God, then it will be equally most possibility for everyone.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says what they are looking for in the Rosicrucian order is the ultimate realization, when all of these other relative communions with God will disappear and there will be one common realization, experience of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. But if you cannot describe what is that ultimate goal, then how others can be attracted? (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . but in their society they have many different religions, many different groups, and they don't ask anyone to leave being Christian or Jew or Muslim or Hindu or anything like that.

Prabhupāda: We are not asking in that way. We are asking, "What is that ultimate goal?" (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . ultimately, by following a process that the Rosicrucian order gives its students, one reaches a goal.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Suppose if I am going to London. So unless I am interested to go to London, what is the use of knowing how to go to London? (break)

Yogeśvara: Their students feel the need for this ultimate perfection, and that's why they come to the movement.

Prabhupāda: But if he does not know what is ultimate perfection, this is bogus. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . realization of God.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like if I say that, "If you do like this, you can get one million dollars." But you know what is the value of one millions dollars, then you endeavor. But if we don't know what is that one million dollars, why should we endeavor? (break)

Yogeśvara: No, he said all of their students, they know the value of realizing God in their heart.

Prabhupāda: How do they know? How do they know? (break)

Yogeśvara: There are already people who are aspiring after a richer, more spiritual life.

Prabhupāda: What is that spiritual life? (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . high spiritual values, the things that . . .

Prabhupāda: These are simply words. What is the spiritual life. I want to know. (break) . . . is useless.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says when God . . . he is just using a lot of names.

Prabhupāda: He is simply speaking. He does not know what is the aim, what is the goal, what is spiritual life . . . (break) . . . no tangible knowledge of everything what I ask. As I asked you what is spiritual life, he cannot describe. (break) . . . distinguish between spiritual life and material life?

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . as we can have spiritual realization and still live in the material world.

Prabhupāda: But what is the spiritual life? What is the distinction between spiritual life and material life? What is the goal? He cannot define spiritual life.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . want to know how does a person who is realized the perfection live.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . tolerant. Above all, he is tolerant.

Prabhupāda: Tolerant. Spiritual life . . . that is also spiritual life. That's all. So in their way of spiritual life, what are the process? There must be some process, definite process. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . that comes when you become initiated in the movement. They give you the process for arriving at this tolerance.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But suppose I want to enter. So you must give me some formula that, "You have to do this, like this." Otherwise how can I enter?

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: He says there are many different techniques, but ultimately they are really all the same, because they lead to the same conclusion. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . those techniques? Let him say some of the techniques. (break)

Yogeśvara: He says the first thing is that we have to awaken our internal consciousness, which is ninety percent asleep.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yogeśvara: He says the first thing is that we have to reawaken your consciousness, which is asleep, ninety percent of it.

Prabhupāda: So what is the process? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: "I don't care to talk about them here."

Prabhupāda: Then how can I accept it? I cannot enter into some vague thing.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: All the systems have to do with meditation, concentration, things that will reawaken your consciousness.

Prabhupāda: What is the object of meditation? (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . different objects, many different.

Prabhupāda: But tell one of them. (break)

Yogeśvara: The body, for example.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that there is "The eternal meditation number three."

Prabhupāda: So what is the number one?

Yogeśvara: He says that this one is one that's basic. It is given to all their students.

Prabhupāda: Number three, and no number one. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . wants to say that you will meditate on the number three, and this was that you would wake up the consciousness in your body, starting from the tips of your toes and working up like this. And it may seem easy to you, but all the great masters of the Orient have taught this, and no one can succeed without doing this.

Prabhupāda: That means their knowledge is not perfect. This is all bogus.

(break) . . . if you meditate on the body, what do you gain?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: To wake up your psychic consciousness, which is sleeping inside this body.

Prabhupāda: But you tell me, what is that process?

Yogeśvara: Well, "meditation number three" is to . . . (break) He says he would like to talk to you a little bit about a book he is reading which describes how the Russians have just discovered the soul. They have photographed the soul, he says . . .

Jyotirmayī: No, no, the aura.

Yogeśvara: The aura of the soul. How they have, the Russians have found the soul, and they have described all the different phenomena of para-psychology and extra-sensory perception. He said it's an incredible book, and the Russians have made great discoveries, and he wants to . . .

Guru-gaurāṅga: But he hasn't finished it yet.

Yogeśvara: But he hasn't finished the book yet.

Prabhupāda: That is Russian. I am asking him about his . . .

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucians, they know what is the duty of human life.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: The destiny of human life.

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . the soul is a state, of crystik (christic?) consciousness, nirvāṇa, call it what you will.

Prabhupāda: That cannot be described.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . with an understanding that is beyond . . . a million times beyond our understanding.

Prabhupāda: If it is beyond understanding, how can I accept it? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . understanding, and it is translated onto the objective level.

Prabhupāda: If I do not understand whom to love, how can I learn? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: It is in the heart of everyone. Simply it is a question of repressing the false ego, for . . . eliminating the old man, the false ego.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Yogeśvara: I'm not quite sure. He says that he doesn't understand why you are objecting. He says love is a part of everyone.

Prabhupāda: Because if you ask me to love, I want to know what is . . . whom I shall love. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . he loves everyone. A mystic, he loves everything.

Prabhupāda: Is there any example? (break)

Yogeśvara: An example is the master of their movement. He was supposed to come, but he was on vacation. But the Grand Master of their movement, he says, is one example.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose to love everyone, that means you love the animals also.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Prabhupāda: Their community allows animal-killing?

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: When you come into the movement, there are no regulations required of you. But little by little, it comes to that point.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: Their experience is that they give their students in the movement . . . for a short period of time, they are required to give up intoxication and meat and things like that. But it's not permanent.

Prabhupāda: And then they can take.

Yogeśvara: Yes, afterwards.

Prabhupāda: So why in the beginning stop? Why in the beginning they are requested to give it up? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: Rosicrucian order doesn't force anything, doesn't make you do anything. (break) . . . people that join this organization, only seven succeed.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Prabhupāda: Then it cannot be preached among the mass of people.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: Some people, when they just can't make it anymore, they just fall, flip out.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: But he says all movements experience the same thing.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: That out of one hundred people . . .

Prabhupāda: One hundred people . . . but the ideal must be there. One may follow or not follow.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: Their order doesn't reject anyone.

Prabhupāda: I think . . . whether their order approves animal-killing?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: There are no restrictions. The order doesn't require.

Prabhupāda: Then let us stop here. No more questions. Waste time.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He doesn't like the idea of killing animals, and he has advised that to friends.

Prabhupāda: But what is the ideal of the order? That I am asking.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: Love between men. Understanding.

Prabhupāda: What the animals have done, no brotherhood is there?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says he loves the animals. He has many animals living with him.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He is surrounded by animals, he says.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) . . . a person who is habituated to kill animals, so will he be admitted in the order?

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He doesn't think that someone who kills animals would like to enter, but if a butcher wants to enter, that's okay, and gradually they'll elevate him.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . on principle the order does not allow animal-killing, is it?

Yogeśvara: They would rather not see anyone killed. Ideally, on an ideal level, their movement would not want to see animals killed, anyone killed.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I want to know what are the principles, rules and regulation of the order. (break)

Yogeśvara: Their principles are love, beauty, harmony, peace.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says there are no rules, but as you progress, one initiation after another initiation, if you start out as a butcher, then gradually in your own self, you will wish to give it up. But there are no rules. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . one initiation after one initiation, there is no progressive rules? (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . that are steps, but the order itself doesn't require that you give up meat-eating at any point. He says he thinks that the people themselves would probably give it up in the higher stages.

Mr. Belfiore: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says that their order is very . . . has a very smart way of doing things, that if they were to try and tell people, "Don't do this, don't do this, don't do that," right away, no-one would join them. So they don't say that. (break) They fall away gradually by themselves.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . quotes a passage from St. Paul, who said if you go and visit someone who is a meat-eater, don't trouble him. Accept meat with him.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: The real mystic is someone who has controlled his body.

Prabhupāda: That he cannot explain, how to control the body. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . it happens right away, it will happen in a while.

Prabhupāda: At least, I cannot accept this. (break) . . . if there is definite program. (break) The thing is that if I want to enter your association, you must give me some prescription which, if I follow, I'll make progress. But you have no prescription. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . submit to his Grand Master your request for a specific prescription to be given to you.

Yogeśvara: He'll send in your application.

Prabhupāda: He hasn't got. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . make one special just for you.

Prabhupāda: But not for general people. (break)

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . is that Yogeśvara explained the four principles to this man, so the man said: "Yes, very good. Sometime we can get to that, too, but it is something that on our own we accept personally. Just like you yourself, Your Divine Grace, you have come to this by accepting it yourself."

Yogeśvara: In other words, "These are nice principles that you are following, and we are sure that you have come to these conclusions on your own, just like maybe one day we will come to those conclusions on our own also." They are something that is self-initiated, these regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: So for the time being there is no such rules and regulation in their order? (break)

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . makes certain suggestions, but it doesn't oblige anyone to follow their suggestions.

Prabhupāda: What is that suggestion? (break)

Yogeśvara: The movement suggests that people live a life as perhaps yours is, of purity and pure thoughts and moral living, and even following certain principles of . . .

Prabhupāda: But these things are there, but they don't say. Suppose a man is killing animals; they don't prohibit him. Then that is immoral life. But if they don't prohibit him, then how he can become moral? (break) . . . killing of animal and morality will go together.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: It's an order that likes very much the ideals of beauty and harmony and morality, but they can't see imposing on anyone these things. I guess their idea is that you can't impose beauty and morality on anyone. You can't insist that anyone stop killing. You can't tell anyone forcibly not to do this or not to do that, that these are things that you have to realize.

Prabhupāda: But is there such rules and regulation or injunction from the Society that, "You do not kill"? Just like Bible there is, "You shall not kill." So they have no such thing. (break)

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says Jesus ate meat, and furthermore there is a sect in the Orient that wears gauze over their mouth so as not to kill microbes while they breathe. But we are killing those microbes. We have killed these flowers.

Prabhupāda: So they are to satisfy everyone.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: "Don't you think we are killing other living beings?"

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. (break)

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . study everything.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) They haven't got their own anything. Simply they are studying. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . unimportant. Realization is what counts.

Prabhupāda: So that he cannot explain, what is the realization.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Prabhupāda: If you cannot describe, then what is the realization?

Yogeśvara: He says he is only forty-nine years old. He can't describe it for you.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: He knows the Rosicrucian order is good, because everything he has attained in his life, he owes to the order. So he knows it is good by what he has attained.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I think for mass of people, unless they have got some ideal, how they can join? That is my point. (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . about devotees is think, think, "Who am I? Where do I come from? Where am I going?"

Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) . . . realize what he is. (break)

Yogeśvara: If he had not realized something, he would never have come tonight.

Prabhupāda: No. Then therefore he can describe what he is. (break)

Yogeśvara: He says when Moses saw the burning bush and he asked the fire, "Who are you?" the fire said: "I am what I am."

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: That's . . . "Who I am?" that's a question that you are going to have to answer by your own meditations.

Prabhupāda: But what is his meditation? What you have learned?

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: The thing to realize, which he has realized a little bit, is peace. And when you join up, you get a letter back, and at the bottom of the letter it says: "With our best wishes for your peace and happiness."

Prabhupāda: But that's all right. Everyone wants that. But what is the process? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . by praying, courage,

Yogeśvara: By faith. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: A serious movement, a serious order would never guarantee instantaneous illumination.

Prabhupāda: No, that also we say. But we must have the program. Just like he say that "Who am I?" So at least one must know who he is. This vague reply is, "I am what I am . . ."

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Prabhupāda: If I ask you, "You come," so "Who are you, sir?" Then if he say: "I am what I am," is that the proper answer? (laughter) This is nonsense answer. If I ask you, "Who are you?" if he says: "I am what I am," is that the proper answer? (break)

Yogeśvara: He would tell you his name, Mr. Belfiore. (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: . . . that forms his identity is Maurice Belfiore, but the interior, that reality, is different. (break) If we all join up here now in silence, and we enter into ourselves and create one person, then we will know who we are from that silence.

Prabhupāda: But how it is possible to become silent? (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . many, many births and deaths.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. That's all right. Now stop talk. (break)

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: . . . privilege for him to be here amongst us.

Prabhupāda: Thank him.

Guru-gaurāṅga: Thank you very much, and he is going to tell the Grand Master about you.

Mr. Belfiore: (French) (break)

Yogeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in San Jose, California, their Grand Emperor of the movement has his . . .

Guru-gaurāṅga: The supreme seat.

Yogeśvara: Their headquarters. And he said one day perhaps there would be the opportunity . . .

Prabhupāda: No, we have got our temple.

Yogeśvara: Yes. (French) (end)