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750404 - Conversation - Mayapur

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750404R1-MAYAPUR - April 04, 1975 - 16:47 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Still, due to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, Ramakishna Mission is no more very important. (break) What is that? (break) This morning also.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Nalinī-kānta: You said that we've been spending so many lifetimes suffering the birth, death, disease and old age, why not just give this one lifetime, following these principles, these four principles, and then become immortal?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Our movement is not. . . (break)

Prabhupāda:. . . situation. The. . . why America is after this Pakistan? This requires little intelligence. The America has no interest either in Pakistan or India, but both of them, being on the border of Russia, it will be convenient for them to fight with the Russian from these places.

Nalinī-kānta: Through Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Do you follow? You have seen Indian map, eh, Asian map? Have you got any?

Nalinī-kānta: Yes, India and Pakistan are right at the bottom of Russia.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want this place.

Nalinī-kānta: The Russians.

Prabhupāda: Russ . . . no. Americans.

Nalinī-kānta: Americans.

Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russia. So if American comes directly in India, that "We want to fight," then India would not agree. Therefore they're keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they're inciting. They're . . . not inciting. They're naturally enemy of . . . (break) . . . not to let them . . . the Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the Communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia . . . actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they'll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.

Nalinī-kānta: That's why you said this morning that India will suffer more than any other country.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: The last time there was a war between Pakistan and India the American government put their whole fleet and aimed their guns at India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They wanted to help Pakistan. But when the Russian came, they took time. Otherwise, fighting would have begun at that time.

Nalinī-kānta: So it almost happened one time before.

Prabhupāda: Maybe that Nixon thought, "If some settlement can be done without fighting . . ." Therefore he went to Russia.

Nalinī-kānta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Later on. He went to China also.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But they are uncompromising. The Communists, they, they are staunch enemy of the capitalist. Their whole philosophy is against God and against capitalism. So if America becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and fights, they have got strength plus God's blessing. They'll come out victorious. Fight is going on. We cannot stop. But if the American people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and fight with the Communist, they'll come out victorious. Then the menace of communistic movement will stop. And we want that. We want that these demonic Communists should be finished. The Russians, as people, they are not Communists. They are not Communists. A certain class. Just like in India, a certain class is Communist. The mass of people is not Communist. They cannot become Communist. It is not possible.

Nalinī-kānta: It is not natural for the living being to be Communist.

Bhagavān: Atheistic Communist.

Prabhupāda: Atheistic Communist.

Nalinī-kānta: It's not natural.

Prabhupāda: They, they're not real communists. Real communist we are. Actually see. All people from all parts of the world, professing different religions, different path of life. Still they are joined. This is natural. Kṛṣṇa community.

Nalinī-kānta: So this war . . . you mentioned a couple of minutes ago that this war almost broke out once before when America aimed all of its weapons at India. So it could happen at any time. It could happen very shortly, then.

Prabhupāda: That war was also Russian instigated. This war, last war between Pakistan and India, was practically between India and Pakistan, uh, yes . . .

Nalinī-kānta: Russia.

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan. East Pakistan, Bangladesh . . . so actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They're intelligent than these Punjabis. Punjabis, they have got bodily strength, not brain. So these Bengalis, in Mujibur Rahman, that was his demands, that, "We are majority. Why they should govern over us? We should govern over them." This is the movement. So, but they're already in power. So how to throw them out of power? So he negotiated in India, that "You help us to separate from . . ." And India's interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation. That is India's interest.

So India agreed to help them. How to help? They organized a false, er, soldiers. You know? What is called? Bahini. A freedom soldier. They organized freedom soldier. And India consulted Russia—Russia was friendly—that "We want to help Bangladesh." So they said: "Yes, you help. If there is fight, then we shall help you." This was the . . . so these bahini, sadin . . . sadin bahini, or something like that, they organized, "freedom soldiers." The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers. They entered Bangladesh because East Bengal, West Bengal. And they started this freedom soldier. But this is Indian soldier. Pakistan could understand that, that "Where this Bangladesh will get so nice soldiers? It is Indian soldiers." So when the movement was increasing, then Pakistan was in a very precarious condition. So they wanted American help. The Americans also said: "Yes." So they got American planes, American . . . to crush down this Bangladesh. And the Bangladesh means Indian soldiers. So later on it was discovered, so Pakistan attacked directly India. That was to go on, increase. But when the Americans were helping these Pakistani, the Russians also came. So it was going to be a, the same, Third World War, immediately. So Americans considered something that, "Let us take some time." Therefore the war was stopped. Otherwise it was already started. That policy is going on.

Nalinī-kānta: There's been no change. Just . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore Indian government does not like you Americans.

Nalinī-kānta: Indian government. Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they're making propaganda. They're thinking that the Americans, under the dress of religious people, the CIA, they have come to disrupt. And this is the position.

Nalinī-kānta: So everything is the same as it was then. It's just that the war, the actual fighting, has been postponed for some time.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the . . .

Bhagavān: Do we have any danger that . . .? I mean, we are building such important establishments in India. Do we have any danger . . .?

Prabhupāda: There is no danger internationally. Suppose . . . just like the Buddhist. They have got their all pilgrimages in India, because Lord Buddha is Indian. He spread Buddhism all over the world. So all the Buddhist relics and pilgrimages are in India—Gaya Pradesh and other, near Benares . . . so India government allow them free, freedom to come here as pilgrimage. So you are now Vaiṣṇava. Why they should not allow you to come to your pilgrimage in India, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthplace? You have adopted Lord Caitanya, Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthplace. Legally, they cannot. They should, rather, make arrangement. But, from political point of view, they're thinking that, "These Americans have taken to this religious garb. Actually they are intending something political." That is the general impression. CIA. What can be done? Therefore I was stressing this point that you Americans, if you make your country strong, Kṛṣṇa conscious, that will be good for the whole world. Actually you are doing that, but they are misunderstanding, in a different way. They cannot believe that an Indian guru can control so many American young boys on religious prin . . . because nobody could do that. Just like all other, Mahesh Yogi and . . . he, they might have some American followers, but they are not coming here, taking so active part.

Nalinī-kānta: Most of them, if they come here . . .

Prabhupāda: But they haven't got any philosophy . . . eh? What is that?

Nalinī-kānta: Most of the followers of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or these other gurus, if they come to India, it's just to go into the Himalayas and smoke some ganja . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: They are not dramatic like our movement. Our movement is very dramatic and obvious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: And we're an obvious cultural movement, whereas they are a hobby.

Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here. Then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as student, then the whole situation will be solved.

Bhagavān: Hmm.

Nalinī-kānta: Here in Māyāpur. (end)