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750517 - Conversation - Perth

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750517R1-PERTH - May 17, 1975 - 10:11 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . but it has got some arrangement, it does not fall down.

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, well they accept that also. They say only if there is no such arrangement, then it will fall down.

Prabhupāda: That means conditional. And who makes that condition? That means ultimately you have to accept existence of God.

Śrutakīrti: Just like they say the moon does not go away because the earth is attracting it.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What is earth? (laughs) All bogus.

Paramahaṁsa: But if we tell them that there is no law of gravity, they will say that why is it that if you throw up a ball, then it comes down?

Prabhupāda: It comes down, heavy, then it comes down, that's all. (laughs)

Śrutakīrti: But that heaviness, they say, is gravity.

Prabhupāda: You can call anything. (laughs) But if Kṛṣṇa desires, a football may not fall. Just like so many planets, they are carried up by the air. All these planets are moving only by the air. So the heavy land, heavy cloud is carried by the air. It is a question of adjustment of air, not the law of gravity. Now the whole universal planetary system are floating and rotating round the polestar. Is that law of gravity, rotating? It is the arrangement of the air. By the air it is up. Just like there is dust storm, so many are floating in the air. There is no question of law of gravity; it is the air. And the . . . who is controlling the air? That is Supreme Personality. Just like in Darwin, the motor buses were floating by the air. It was a great storm there?

Amogha: Yes, hurricane.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Hurricane?

Amogha: On Christmas day.

Prabhupāda: Motor buses were floating. Is that law of gravity? Air, different adjustment of air. If Kṛṣṇa desires, simply by air this whole city will be devastated. The other day we saw so many trees fell from Kurukṣetra. All trees and houses will be smashed within half an hour if some hurricane is sent. Poking nose in the affairs of God. They'll simply try to prove that there is no God. This is their attempt. And they say "nature." What is this nature? Nature is an instrument, machine. The authority is God, Kṛṣṇa. So I have given the right name: fourth-class men, not even third class. All fourth class. Śūdra. Śūdra and less than śūdra. This is the whole pack-up of population at the present moment. First-class man, his definition is there: śama, dama, tapa, śaucam, titikṣā, ārjavam, jñāna vijñānam āstikyam (BG 18.42). That is first class. They are snatching a motorcar mechanic as first class. Because he knows some mechanical arrangement how to do it, he is first class. Such things are being done by the demons. Machine or wonderful building, these things are done by the demons. Now to begin? Time is up?

Śrutakīrti: You wanted to shave your head? Yeah?

Prabhupāda: Ah, there is time?

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, we are leaving at twelve-thirty. So we have two hours. That is sufficient.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. The world is full of rascals and fourth-class men, that is our verdict, Kṛṣṇa's verdict. A human being does not know God, he's no better than dog. He is dog. Who knows God? There are so many scientists, philosophers—no idea. And they are discussing on sex philosophy, homosex, Freud philosophy, Darwin's theory. All third class, fourth class, they are controlling. Now they are gradually coming to chaotic condition, and their problems, engage so many big, big officials how to solve. Oh, why you created problem, first of all? You third-class, fourth-class men, you have created problem, and now you are trying to make solution—another problem. Because you are the same fourth-class men, how you can make a solution? You have created the problem. The man who creates problem, can he make solution? So you are the same fourth-class man, how you can make a solution? Bring first-class men. But there are no first-class men. All rogues and rascals. Things are becoming bad to worse, and still they'll claim, "We are first class."

Amogha: They are all rascals, so the best rascal, they say he is first class. First-class rascal.

Prabhupāda: That I was speaking, big animal and small animal. Cats and dogs praising one lion.

Amogha: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: A lion is also an animal. But they are thinking, "Oh, one lion." (chuckles) But we are thinking that it is also animal. The cats and dogs, they are thinking, "Oh, lion is so big, so powerful." But human being is thinking this is also an animal, big animal. Is it not? (laughs) Tell them. Cats and dogs may praise some another animal, tiger and . . . but are the tigers other than animal? He is also animal.

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Prabhupāda: When I said that, "We are creating first-class men," so are you . . . are you claiming that you are first class?

Amogha: Yes, he was asking us. Yes, he said, "Have you become?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: What did you say?

Amogha: I said we are becoming. Yes, we can see. (offers obeisances)

Prabhupāda: So "I am getting so big salary. I am not first class." And this person is first class. (end)