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750523 - Morning Walk - Melbourne

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750523MW-MELBOURNE - May 23, 1975 - 56:36 Minutes

Śrutakīrti: (introducing recording) The following is Prabhupāda's final morning walk in Melbourne, Australia, in the Botanical Gardens on May 23rd, 1975.

Prabhupāda: . . . filled with fruits and flowers, then it would have invited many nice birds. But they do not know that.

(break) . . . chirping, the beauty of the gardens would have been more beautiful. But they cannot invite. There is no fruits, no flower.

Sabhāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, all the devotees on the walk this morning, they are the book distributors.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Sabhāpati: They are the Australian book distributors, all the devotees on the walk this morning. (pause)

Prabhupāda: It is a fact that they do not grow fruit trees because people will eat and will not work? Is that the policy? Somebody told me like that, that if there is enough fruit, then people will eat and they will not work.

Amogha: The fruit business would go down also. The fruit stands would not be able to sell much.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Bad policy.

Śrutakīrti: The government does that. On some farmers, they will pay them not to grow to keep the price high.

Prabhupāda: Kill animals. Just see the policy. Instead of growing natural food, they will kill animal. Purposefully sinful life.

Śrutakīrti: But they still have to grow food for the animal. They're growing the food, but they give it to the animal.

Prabhupāda: Fruit?

Śrutakīrti: No, the food. They grow food for the animals, but then they kill the animal.

Prabhupāda: Just see. They can grow food both for the animals and for human being. Instead, they are simply growing food for the animals and killing them. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. You sing this before taking prasādam. The tongue is the greatest enemy, and greedy. Tā'ra madhye jihwā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. For the satisfaction of the tongue they are risking their own life and committing sinful life to suffer later on. Therefore the first-class man's first duty is to śamaḥ, controlling the mind. If one can control the mind, that "If I can live with grains, food and milk, why shall I kill the ani . . .?" This is controlling the mind. They cannot control even this small thing. "Live and let live"—this policy they do not follow. "Live and kill others. Live at the cost of others."

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, it says in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the weaker are the subsistence of the strong. So therefore human beings, they feel justified . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the . . . but where is the human consciousness? A tiger cannot understand this. He will kill a lower animal. But you are not animal; you are man. You should have this discrimination, that "If I can live otherwise very nicely, why shall I kill animal?" That is humanity.

Devotee (1): But also, is not eating vegetables killing a living entity also?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not killing. If you take fruit, where is the killing? The tree is there. If you take food grains, the food grains, after being produced, the tree dies automatically.

Śrutakīrti: Yeah. Wheat is harvested after it dies, not while it is alive.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New Zealand we have a situation where the main industry is killing animals, the biggest industry; yet there is so much rain, so much nice atmosphere over there. Why is this? Why is there such a nice atmosphere but they are killing so many cows? Is that that they are innocent and they do not know, and so Kṛṣṇa is not punishing them so much?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will be punished. (pause) (break) . . . so many motor accidents. And there will be war, then wholesale punishment. Then killing, being killed within the womb of the mother. They are being punished. Nowadays these things have been introduced. Now this child which is being killed by the mother, they are all these sinful men. They cannot come out even, out of the womb of the mother. There they are killed. Nature's law is very strict.

Devotee (3): In the Western society, Śrīla Prabhupāda, people who are displaying a very bad sinful reaction in their birth are put away in institutions so they cannot be seen by the general mass of people.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Śrutakīrti: He's saying people that are suffering very greatly in this life—they have so many mental disorders or physical disorders—they put them in institutions so that no one can see them.

Prabhupāda: No one can see them. That means they are not suffering? (laughter) Just see how foolish persons.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning we have seen already a reaction is coming about against the killing of unborn children. There is one big poster that is being put up by a protest group which says, "The Queen Victoria Hospital kills unborn babies. Protest now," like this. So there is . . . I think it's the Right to Life Movement in Victoria here that is fighting against this abortion activity.

Prabhupāda: But they are so sinful that they are unable to carry out. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita). If there is a serpent, if you advise him, "Please do not kill; be gentleman," will he become? Snake. Snake will kill, unnecessarily bite and kill. Sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ sarpāt krūrataraḥ khalaḥ (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita): "There are two envious living entities. One is the serpent and other is the envious man. So the envious man is more dangerous than the serpent." Why? Now, the serpent can be charmed by drugs and by mantra, but this man cannot be charmed. So this advice will not act. They are so dangerous than the serpent.

Devotee (3): How then can we advise them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if they are like serpents? How can we . . .?

Prabhupāda: You can advise only, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything will be all right," this one medicine. You can simply make plan how they will chant and take prasādam. Then everything all right. This simple method. Bring them: "Please come here, chant, dance and take prasādam." They will be all good men. This process. Otherwise, if you give them good advice, they will not be able to carry it out. They are so sinful. Their treatment, the only treatment, is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Somehow or other, bring them together. Let them chant. Let them dance and take prasādam. They will be all right. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. There is no other means to rectify them. We are opening centers different parts of the world just to give them chance, "Please come here, take prasādam, chant, dance, enjoy." But that transcendental enjoyment will make them correct. We are the best friends of the human society.

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
(CC Adi 17.21)

Anyathā means otherwise there is no means to rectify these rascals. Harer nāma harer nāma.

Hari-śauri: There are so many altruistic movements, but actually there is no peace coming about.

Prabhupāda: It is not effective. Just like the government spending to stop drug habit, millions of dollars, no use, but as soon as they come to us, immediately they give up. But still, the rascal will not pay the money to us. (laughter) We are doing so much benefit, but they will not pay. If you ask them money, "No, no, our money is not for religious purpose. For science. Our money is for science." Science means how, scientifically, you can kill cows. Just see. This is science. How, scientifically, you can become less than cats and dogs. This is their science. The cats and dogs also, they do not kill their children. But they are scientific advanced; the doctor advises, "Kill it."

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, most of the people in the Western world are Christians, and they say the cow has no soul.

Prabhupāda: This is not the question of Christian or Western. This is the disease of the whole world. It is not that only the Westerners are accused, not the others. No, it is . . . we don't say like that. Everyone. This is the influence of this Kali-yuga.

Devotee (2): They feel justified in killing because they say the animal has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Just see how fool they are. Therefore we simply say these are rascals. (chuckles) They have not even the common sense of an uneducated man. And they are scientist. Why there is no soul? What is the proof? What is their argument? Why they say there is no soul? What is the argument?

Devotee (2): Because it says in the Bible, until one accepts Jesus Christ, one has no soul.

Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ said that animal has no soul? Has he said like that? Has he said?

Devotee (2): He says that one must be born again.

Prabhupāda: Never he can say like that. He is not such a fool. He cannot say that.

Devotee (4): Like this priest said the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said that the human being has a spirit soul, but the animal just has a soul. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) The same thing. "Everyone is sinful, but we are pure sinful." (laughter) Pure sin.

Hari-śauri: Actually, most sinful activity appears to be promoted by the government for economic development. They have big state lotteries. They are planning to spend six million dollars developing a greyhound racing park here in Australia.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Just see. This is nice place to walk. Why on the ups and downs?

Śrutakīrti: We have a bad tour guide.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles)

Hari-śauri: You were speaking before about controlling the tongue is very important. And in your lectures you have said simply by eating prasādam this is controlling the tongue. But still, we have tendency when there is a big feast to eat very much prasādam. Is this a good thing, or . . .?

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) It is not very good, but it is still good. (laughter) Instead of going to the restaurant and eat like the hogs and dogs, better take more prasādam. There is no harm. Kṛṣṇa baṛo doyāmoy, koribāre jihwā jay. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Just to conquer over our tongue He has given us nice variety of prasāda. Take it and control your tongue. Yes. (aside) Hmm. Don't come very near.

Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were telling this government man the other day not to kill the cows but to wait till they die. But they have a law that if the cow dies naturally, then it cannot be eaten.

Prabhupāda: That means we must commit sin. The government . . .

Devotee (5): Yes. Must commit sin.

Amogha: I think their idea is that if . . .

Prabhupāda: But their argument is fallacious. "Kill" means it dies. So how we can eat? Just see the . . . See their intelligence. "Kill" means he dies.

Śrutakīrti: They say that if it dies naturally it is due to some disease, so there may be some harm in eating such meat.

Prabhupāda: So that means nobody will die. Is there. . . The law is it is to die. Why disease? Disease or no disease, everyone should die.

Śrutakīrti: But if we kill the cow without it, while it is healthy, then it is very good to eat the meat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but the argument is "die." As soon as you kill, it is died. As soon as you take the fish out of the water it dies. So how you can say that dead animal is not good? It is dead. For argument's sake, "A dead animal is not good," but you make him dead; then you eat. Where is the argument that dead animal is bad? You are eating dead. That means they are not even common sense. That is the rascaldom. Rascal means one who has no common sense even.

Devotee (5): They would say, then, "Why don't you let the vegetables die naturally before you eat the vegetables?"

Prabhupāda: Vegetable? We are not talking of vegetable; we are talking of animals. Why don't you kill your father? Old father, useless, kill him and eat.

Hari-śauri: Actually, they are not very much concerned about their parents anymore either. They put them in institutions also when they get too old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, time will come, they will kill their father. Now they are killing their children. Now they will kill their father. As soon as the whole world will become Communist, they will kill the old man, as the Africans, they do it. Africans kill their grandfather, and it is a festival. Yes. They throw the grandfather on the roof of the cottage, and it, rolling down, it falls down. Twice, thrice, it dies. That becomes a great festival of the grandsons. They are eating grandfather. Glorious grandsons.

Devotee (6): Then they eat the grandfather's brain.

Prabhupāda: And, you do not know, they like to eat white men. (laughter) Yes. They kidnap or capture, some way or other, one white man, and they eat it very nicely.

Devotee (6): They say that the grandfather is very learned, so they eat his brain so they can get his knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they say like that? Oh, just see. He eats the experience. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Śrutakīrti: You were saying about how, in the car, that one eats the cow, they say, because it is sāttvika.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Śrutakīrti: So the spiritual master, he is even more sāttvika, so he should be eaten.

Prabhupāda: So eat the spiritual master.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are these cannibalistic tribes, Amazons and whatever, are they classed as subhuman? Are they in the subhuman class, or are they . . .

Prabhupāda: They are uncivilized. They are human being.

Hari-śauri: So do they . . .

Prabhupāda: Human being comes to perfection when he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So gradually they would have to come. Just like the bud of rose flower. When it is bud it is not so useful. When it fructifies, becomes a blossomed rose, then it is useful. Similarly, human being in other stages of life, they are like buds. When they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then they are blossomed flower.

Hari-śauri: But if they're committing so many sinful activities, murdering their father and like this, then how will they get to that stage of being able to approach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, it will be checked. It will be checked. Just like if there is some worm in the bud, then the growing will be checked.

Śrutakīrti: Are the lower human species responsible for sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As soon as one is human being, he is responsible. Just like your state laws. Suppose a Aborigine comes and does something criminal, will he be excused? Animal may be excused, but the man will not be excused.

Devotee (7): Śrīla Prabhupāda, they mightn't excuse him, but they mightn't treat him as harshly as they would treat somebody in knowledge. Is this the same with the activities that these people perform?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Śrutakīrti: He said he wouldn't be treated as bad because an Aborigine is not considered . . .

Devotee (7): He hasn't got the knowledge. He's ignorant.

Prabhupāda: Still he is not excused by the law.

Devotee (6): He would be treated leniently.

Devotee (7): Would he be treated more leniently than someone that has knowledge?

Prabhupāda: I do not know that. But ignorance is no excuse.

Devotee (8): Or that example, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You said that the people in India are being punished more because they are in knowledge; they have the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Amogha: On an earlier walk you were saying there are three kinds of Vedic evidence: śruti, itihāsa and anumāna, was it? I didn't understand what anumāna was.

Prabhupāda: Hypothesis. Hypothesis. Just like yesterday I was explaining that as soon as there is a machine, there is an operator. This is hypothesis. You cannot expect machine going on without operator. Similarly, this material nature is a machine and the operator is God. This is hypothesis. Even though you do not see God, we cannot make this suggestion. That is human reasoning, logic. If any ordinary typewriter machine . . . this is a machine, but that requires operator. He is pushing this button; then it is working. It is not automatically working, any machine. So how this big machine is operating without any operator? What is this nonsense? They say, "There is no God. Nature, nature." What is the nature? Nature is a machine. Just like this body. This body is machine, and the operator is the soul, and the guide is the Supersoul. As soon as the soul goes away, then the machine does not work. This is common sense. But they have no common sense; therefore they are rascals, so-called scientists and others. They have no common sense even.

Sabhāpati: So who is the greater rascal, the material scientist or the . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who . . . that is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. "No, they are so educated." No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless; it has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of this education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old. Then where is the education value? You cannot solve your problem, so what is the meaning of education? Education, knowledge, means you have solved your problems. They are trying to do that, temporary problem. But ultimate problem they cannot solve. Therefore the value of this education is useless. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). It is simply laboring after something, that's all.

Devotee (2): They say that the value of their education is that very soon they will be able to overcome birth, death, disease and old age, that they almost have the solution. They are freezing people's bodies . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore younger generation, they are not interested in education. They see that, after all, the life is vacant even after education.

Hari-śauri: The leaders appear to have adopted a stopgap policy so that they can keep the people in ignorance and fool them that they are doing some good when actually they are not, so that they can maintain their position as leader. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking by material adjustment they will be happy. That is not possible. But they are so fools, they do not think over it, that "Where is the solution? You have given me the chance to live in a skyscraper building, but is that solution of the problems?" They have no brain to ask this. Is it . . .? Does it mean that if you live in a skyscraper building there will be no death, no disease, no old age? Then where is the solution? But real problem is going on. Everyone is trying to save himself from disease, from old age, from death. Why do they go to the physician as soon as there is some disease, that "I may not die"? The attempt is to save from the death, but ultimately they are dying. They have no brain to think of it. Why do they go to the physician as soon as one is diseased? Why do they go?

Amogha: They want to be well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then "well" means they want to save themself from death. That means they want not to die. But death is there. Then where is the solution of problem? But they have no brain to think that "What these rascals will do? My problem is there. It is not solved." And still they accept. Therefore in the Bhāgavata it is said, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are eulogized, they are praised, glorified, by another animal. He is an animal, big animal, and a small animal says, "Oh, you are our leader." The big animal is praised by the small animal. Both of them are animals. None of them are human being. So this is going on. A big animal bluffs him that "I have done so much for you. You give me vote." That's all. And the small animal thinks, "Yes, he has done so much. Give him vote." This is going on. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. Everything is discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that one blind man is leading other blind men. What is the use? Hmm? If I am blind man, if I say, "Come behind me. I shall take to St. Kilda," and as soon as I go in the road, you are killed, I am killed, that's all. That is going on.

Devotee (6): They say that death, there is death, then finish.

Prabhupāda: But if you will be finished, then why you are attempting so much? Sit down now. Why you are making advancement of civilization?

Devotee (6): For their children, they say.

Prabhupāda: If you advance in civilization or do not advance in civilization, you will die. That is sure. Then why do you labor so much? Huh? The animals, they do not labor so much. They live peacefully on the condition of the nature. Why do you labor so much? If the result is the same—the animal will die and you will die—then why you are laboring so much for nothing? That means they have no common sense even. Therefore they are rascals. That is discussed in my . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna, "If you think there was no life before this body, and if you think that there will be no life after this body, then why you are anxious for the body of your brothers and sisters?" So all these philosophies have been discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. After all, the conclusion is that they are all rascals. That's all. We have to take them as such: rascals. After death everything is finished—that a child knows—but why you are making so permanent building? Piling, (imitates pile-driver sound) "donkhs, donkhs," very strong building. You are not strong enough to live there, so why you are making strong building? The building will stay, and you will die. So what is the use of making a strong building? Let the building also go with you. Why do you labor so much? Is it not? You are making strong building, but you are not strong enough to live there. And why you are laboring so much? What is the answer?

Hari-śauri: Their excuse is that they are leaving something for the next generation, for their children.

Prabhupāda: But they will also not live.

Devotee (1): They think they will be recognized by their works.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): They will be recognized by their good works.

Prabhupāda: That means asses. The asses think that "I will be recognized by my work." He takes so much labor, load, although nothing, not a grain of the load belongs to him. But he takes the load, unnecessarily. So this is their business. He will not live, his son will not live, his grandson will not live, but he is making permanent business.

Amogha: But when we're living we can enjoy. We can enjoy when we're living.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that enjoy. Pramattaḥ. They are called madmen. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati (SB 2.1.4). They know it certainly, "Every one of us will die," but seeing also, they do not see. And that is madman. Pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. That the animal, he is seeing that "One animal is being killed. Next time is mine," but still eating grass. He has no anxiety. This is called pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. This is animal life, that even though fact is there, they will close their eyes. That's all. This is animal life.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, even if there is a life after death, I don't know what it's going to be like, so why should I worry about it now? Now that I have a . . . even if there is a life after death, I don't know what it's . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you are a man, you should be worried. Because you are not human being, next life you are going to be cat, you should be worried.

Devotee (1): But the cats and the dogs, they are also happy.

Prabhupāda: And if you want to become cats and dogs and happy, you be. Don't worry. That's all. But we are worried: "Why shall I become cat and dog? We shall go back to home, live with Kṛṣṇa." That is our ambition. Your ambition is to become cat and dog, you become.

Devotee (6): They are happy with that.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You become happy. But we are not happy. (looking at tree?) What is the idea here?

Amogha: They want it to grow straight up. It looks like it started to go sideways.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) . . . human being who knows things, that I explained this thing that by nature's process I have come to this human body. Now what is next progress? That is human being. And even still I remain cats and dog but they have no inquiry, then what is the use of getting this human body?

Devotee (4): Why, then, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is a person given a human body, then, if they . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means better conscience. He can consider so many things: "Why I am dying? I do not want to die. Why there are so many miserable condition?" We are covering because there is miserable condition of this winter. I don't want to suffer from cold; therefore I am covered. So this is struggle for existence. The human being can understand that why there is struggle? Why not I am happy naturally? This question must be there. Otherwise, he is cat and dog. The dogs do not inquire all these things. Then if you have no such power to inquire and understand, then you are no better than dog. And if you are happy to remain cats and dogs, that is your business. But a real human being, he will never be happy. That is human being. Everyone is trying to improve his material condition; therefore the motorcar is going here and there, here and there. Why they are trying? Let them remain satisfied in any condition. The modern economic law is that create new necessities of life. That is the way of Western civilization. They are creating motorcars every year, and the bank is prepared to give you loan so that you may work day and night. Take loan from the bank and purchase a motorcar and repay him by working, so their machine will go on. This is the policy, economic policy. Is it not? Yes. Keep them working, busy. But what is the purpose of this working? Now, when death is there, everything is finished. And everything will be finished, for that working? Just see their knowledge. Everything will be finished, and for this purpose I have to work so hard?

Devotee (6): They think that you might as well enjoy while you can.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that if working hard like ass is enjoyment, let them enjoy. Let these rascals enjoy like that.

Devotee (2): Why do so many humans, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they do not use their propensity to ask the questions? They simply live like animals.

Prabhupāda: Because they are animal. They are educated like animal.

Devotee (2): So it is the fault of the education.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is the responsibility of the government, guardians, father. They do not give them proper education. Therefore Bhāgavata says, "If you cannot give proper education to your children, then don't marry. Don't become father." That is contraceptive. If you are unable to give . . . what is that? Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum (SB 5.5.18). Samupeta-mṛtyum: this body means you have accepted death. This body means material body. So one should not become a father if he cannot stop the death of his son. That is the Vedic injunction. "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot train your children so that he may be saved from this impending death." That is the instruction. And who is doing that? Their philosophy is: "After death, everything is finished. I will be finished. My child will be finished. That's all." (japa) (break)

Devotee (2): . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda, they can teach these people how to educate the youngsters. Is this right?

Prabhupāda: Therefore so many books. (break)

Hari-śauri: . . . the verse that you have put in the front of the first volume of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇe sva-dhāmopagate (SB 1.3.43), that the Bhāgavatam can give light even to people in ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kalau naṣṭa-dṛśām. Naṣṭa-dṛśām: "They have lost their sight, what is the progress of life. They have lost their sight."

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (devotees offer obeisances as Prabhupāda enters car) (break)

Devotee (1): . . . people say, when you talk to them of going to the spiritual world, they say they would believe if there was someone present that has come back to tell them of the spiritual world. But otherwise . . .

Prabhupāda: How he will believe that someone has come? The first . . . next question will be, how you will believe, I will present a man?

Śrutakīrti: They don't believe.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of bringing that man?

Śrutakīrti: We tell them that you have come, (Prabhupāda laughs) but they'll not accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, I have come, and that I shall think over. First of all let me know how you will believe. Suppose if I say, "I have come from spiritual world," will he believe?

Śrutakīrti: That's what I'm saying. No, they don't.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the method of his believing I must know. Then I present the man. What is the method of believing? Otherwise I can say, "I have come from spiritual world. You believe me." Will he believe it? Will he?

Devotee (1): Well, I would, but I do not think . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, you may. You are my disciple; you may believe. But will he believe?

Devotee (1): No, he will not believe. No.

Prabhupāda: Then let me know first of all how he will believe. Then according to his belief, I shall bring man.

Śrutakīrti: By seeing some miracles, they will believe.

Devotee (1): Someone with three heads possibly, or . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): They would believe if someone with three heads came, possibly.

Prabhupāda: There is sometimes a child is born with three heads. Sometimes it is. (laughter)

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Bhagavad-gītā it is said, idaṁ te na atapaskāya (BG 18.67). Those who have no life of penance and austerities, don't talk with them. It will be a waste of time. You know that there is verse in the Bhagavad-gītā? In Eighteenth Chapter. Idaṁ te na atapaskāya, māṁ ca yaḥ abhyasūyati: "Persons who are envious of Me and those who have not undergone austerity and penances, don't talk with them." But we take the risk. We go even to these rascals. Because for Kṛṣṇa's sake, "Never mind, it will take some time. Let me try this rascal." Therefore the easiest process is that every rascal will agree to take nice food and dance. So induce them to come to us, dance, and take nice food. Let them come on this ground. And by hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, gradually they will be all right. This is the policy. So far argument, logic, philosophy is concerned, they are beyond it. Because they are animal. They cannot understand.

Devotee (2): You have said it's just like when someone has jaundice and he sees everything as yellow, and you cannot convince him if something is white.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the . . .

Devotee (2): He must become purified.

Prabhupāda: So therefore the treatment is, some way or other, induce them to come and chant and dance with us and take prasādam. This program should be accelerated.

Śrutakīrti: Spiritual life starts with the tongue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is . . . Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234).

Devotee (3): Like, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the solicitor there last night. When I first made contact with him, he took two days to think about it whether he would act for us or not. And now, through association, he's becoming more purified, stopped eating meat, stopped smoking cigarettes, and now he likes us very much.

Prabhupāda: He is being purified himself?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we have to take little patience. That is preaching work. Don't be impatient. Let us do our duty on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Even the result is not very appreciable, still we have to do it. This is preaching. Just like Nityānanda Prabhu. He was hurt by Jagāi-Mādhāi. Still, He determined, "No, these two boys must be delivered." This is the example. "Never mind they have injured Me; still, I shall deliver them." And He did it. They became Vaiṣṇava. So our preaching determination should be like that, not that we are failure in some cases, and therefore give it up. No. This is our business. We must go on doing this. Failure or success, it doesn't matter. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to preach. He never said, "If you are failure, don't preach." Never said that. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128): "Whomever you meet, you just give him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." He never says that "If somebody does not hear you, don't do it." No. Kṛṣṇa said that "Don't talk with the fools and rascals and those who are not undergone some penances." Kṛṣṇa said. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu is so kind. He said, "To everyone said."

Śrutakīrti: So we are following Lord Caitanya's . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I came to Western country with no hope. I knew that my Godbrother, Bon Mahārāja, came; he failed. Then Gosvāmī Mahārāja was there, so many svāmīs and yogīs came here, nobody could turn them. So I came here just with a purpose, "Let me try." But I was not hopeful at all. But Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is now successful.

Devotee (1): A great success.

Prabhupāda: And therefore let us try. And success, no success, depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): Already I have noticed a difference with the new temple which has opened in Melbourne, the group of adults that are coming around to become interested now because we have a permanent place here. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: On the whole, we have got very nice house. (gets out of car and is greeted by devotees) Thank you. (kīrtana) (end)