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750615 - Conversation A - Honolulu

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750615R1-HONOLULU - June 15, 1975 - 11:48 Minutes

(about Educational System)

Siddha-svarūpa: I’d like to try to do what I can to, to, uh . . .

Prabhupāda: Now this educational system should be changed.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, that's actually . . . I was writing an article on the educational system and how it should be changed. Maybe even just for . . . print a few copies, just for teachers . . .

Prabhupāda: No.

Siddha-svarūpa: . . . or something.

Prabhupāda: Of course, you can write articles, but that will not be effective unless your plan is practical.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. So perhaps I’m not . . . then, I’m not, you know, I’m not sure whether or not I, in other words, whether or not the process is . . . what I’m trying to . . . put the Bhagavad-gītā into this present school system or to simply have your own school system apart from it.

Prabhupāda: They will not take. The teachers are also demons. They, they must be of ideal institution, ideal character to develop. If the teachers and the authority were actually sane men, then how things are happening like this? They do not have a . . . they are asuras. Practically they are saying that this is question of time. But they do not know how to rectify. They do not know. And if we suggest, they may not accept us, because they have no brain. Better to establish separate ideally. Example is better than precept. If you have got ideal example, that is better than you try to rectify them, because they have lost their brain. They have no good brain substance. Lost. Just like the USA and the Chinese, they are condemning excessive sex life, and the Europeans particularly, sex life is simply there. Actually, excessive sex life means slaughter.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And that's like . . .

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. All good saṁskāra finished. They cannot become high-graded, thoughtful men. Sometimes they become ruined.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The semina is so valuable. They do not know that it . . . (indistinct) . . . of the whole system is marriage. Ūrdhva-retāḥ. Instead of disturbing semina, the brahmacārī system was that semina goes to . . .

Siddha-svarūpa: The brain.

Prabhupāda: . . . to the brain to make it more powerful.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-retāḥ. That brahmacārī life was ūrdhva-retāḥ.

Siddha-svarūpa: Ud . . .?

Prabhupāda: Ūrdhva-retāḥ.

Siddha-svarūpa: Ūrdhva-retāḥ?

Prabhupāda: Retah means "semina," and ūrdhva means "up." Instead of going out, discharged, they utilize it.

Siddha-svarūpa: The . . . the Chinese do that also, consciously.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chinese practice ūrdhva-retāḥ.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Almost Indian.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There was regular exchange of learned scholars between China and India very recently. So their culture is become similar to Indian culture.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So . . . (indistinct) . . . in Japan also. They, from this Pacific; as soon as you go the other side, demoniac, and as soon as you keep this side, then this Oriental.

Siddha-svarūpa: This is in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is also Oriental. The Hawaiians, they are Oriental. Low class, caṇḍāla class; not brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. They are low class, but still culture is Oriental.

Siddha-svarūpa: They had some priestly class here. They are called kahunas. They were very similar to mystic yogīs also. They were always celibate.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said this is Oriental culture. I can see.

Siddha-svarūpa: It's a, a school . . .

Prabhupāda: Now they have been conquered by these Occidental culture. They are very aggressive. Colonization: bring more, more land, more money, more sex. Now it is becoming failure. They are creating hippies. Varṇāśankara.

Siddha-svarūpa: In the Western world right now, or in a, in a couple of years, but right now it's beginning, the people are more and more and more going to be searching for a place where they can send their children to school.

Prabhupāda: We should have ideal institution, varṇāśrama college. People will be very much happy to send their children. So you have got a group of men who, likes you, who follows you, could train up the teachers and open a varṇāśrama college anywhere, either in India or here, and make an ideal school. They will see how nice it is.

Siddha-svarūpa: Would it be one . . . an institution that more for people who are living outside, public, to come and go, take class . . .?

Prabhupāda: That way we could. But they come, they take their meals here . . .

Siddha-svarūpa: Take their meals here, just like at school.

Prabhupāda: Or make it public school, resident students.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah. Both.

Prabhupāda: So they will be trained up right, just like you are training in Dallas: rise early in the morning and attend maṅgala-ārati, then in class, take nice prasādam. All facility—but this culture of… No smoking, no gambling. Better, male and female separate.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. And what about Deity worship?

Prabhupāda: Deity worship there must be. Otherwise . . .

Siddha-svarūpa: Right away.

Prabhupāda: . . . they remain unclean. Deity worship means the habit becomes clean. If you stop Deity worship, then they will remain unclean. Because along with the Deity worship one has to rise early in the morning, take bath, attend maṅgala-ārati. This is another practical training—to keep him clean. Because here, your countrymen, they are very, very unclean. So this Deity worship will help them to remain clean. And then they will be able to understand this philosophy.

Siddha-svarūpa: The reason I ask is because many people, especially people who are brought up Christians, they are have . . . they have a very difficult time. They can chant, and they might be interested in coming and being part of the classes, taking a class in the Bhagavad-gītā and so on, but they would have a very difficult time worshiping Deities. They . . . there's some block, because of the way . . .

Prabhupāda: Then have kīrtana.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. That may be a . . . that may be . . . but rising early in the morning . . .

Prabhupāda: Deity worship and kīrtana, becomes very ecstatic.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, that is, in, in the . . .

Prabhupāda: Without Deity, kīrtana is not very ecstatic. That is . . . (indistinct)

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, there may be a way for beginners, for beginning people and people who are more into it, who are more advanced, that they can . . .

Prabhupāda: No. If not Deity worship, keep pictures. That will be . . .

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . and go on kīrtana. But the system of rising early, taking bath . . .

Siddha-svarūpa: Right.

Prabhupāda: . . . that should be done.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Clean head.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. All, even the students who . . .?

Prabhupāda: The point is you want to change, then we have to set some authorized changes. If you keep them as it is, how they will be changed?

Siddha-svarūpa: For students who are living outside, for instance, if it's . . . try to make it a public thing for a lot, many people . . . would, would those people also . . . would just the students who were living on the grounds—that is those students who were living there full, what do they call it, dormitory students who live in . . . uh—would, would even students from outside who were coming in to take classes be required, for instance, to shave their heads?

Prabhupāda: Well, they must be clean.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And clean state of habit. It's . . . (indistinct)

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Well, originally in schools, uh, what's . . . in ways that public schools . . . (break) (end)