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750617 - Conversation - Honolulu

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750617R1-HONOLULU - June 17, 1975 - 18:47 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Dispatching is not possible.

Govinda dāsī: It breaks.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: If it were dispatched, it would break.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very much fragile. You can make on the spot and keep it.

Govinda dāsī: So we have to use some hard material that will dispatch nicely.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Govinda dāsī: The original . . . these Deities, the original one I made with a framework like that, and then with clay, the original one I made. And then I met Vṛṣṇi—he was going to the university at that time—and he made a mold for it out of plaster. And then we experimented with hydrostone; it didn’t work too good. And then we made the Deities from the molds, out of the mache, paper mache. The original one was clay.

Vṛṣṇi: They’re having trouble with the paper mache?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Vṛṣṇi: There is some trouble with the paper mache, with the Deities?

Prabhupāda: Yes, some moth attacked them. I was informed by Guru . . .

Govinda dāsī: I don’t think they actually know if it is attacking or if maybe it is just living in there.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Vṛṣṇi: (indistinct) . . . some other idea?

Govinda dāsī: Well there is some idea that maybe the roaches were eating this hard stuff. I don’t know how it could eat it. They may just be living in there.

Vṛṣṇi: The roaches, or . . .?

Govinda dāsī: The roaches? I don’t know. The roaches or moths or something. So I don't know. Could you examine them and tell?

Vṛṣṇi: I suppose, if there were some holes or something.

Govinda dāsī: It's not certain whether they’re actually being attacked or eaten. It's not certain. It's just that they’re present there, the bugs are present there. But whether they’re actually eating is not for certain. I suspect it's not certain.

Vṛṣṇi: But the . . .

Govinda dāsī: I don’t believe that it's certain.

Vṛṣṇi: The bugs will be there no matter what they’re made out of, unless something is done to keep the bugs away.

Govinda dāsī: That's what I told them.

Vṛṣṇi: They just like to live underneath things, that's all.

Govinda dāsī: In such an instance, should they exterminate? I know they spray to kill these bugs weekly. In such an instance in a temple, should the bugs be killed?

Prabhupāda: I do not know. I heard . . .

Vṛṣṇi: What kind of . . . what kind of material and finish would you prefer them to be made of?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What kind?

Vṛṣṇi: What kind of material would you prefer the Deities to be constructed out of?

Prabhupāda: He said marble powder?

Vṛṣṇi: It is impossible right now.

Govinda dāsī: It would be nice if we could do it.

Prabhupāda: Or cement?

Vṛṣṇi: Cement is possible.

Govinda dāsī: Something very hard and sturdy, something comparable to cement that we could . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . experience right here. On Gaurasundara's point and on Sudāmās point. So that is way. But these things have happening only here, not any other place. New York was going to be . . . (indistinct) . . . I do not wish to revive the memory . . . (indistinct) . . . they made their own program, manufacture some concocted ideas, and set fire to the standard—fallen. This is the difficulty. As soon as we deteriorate our standard, then everything is spoiled. Therefore I am so much strict about the standard. And our these Western boys, they are always manufacturing ideas. Always. Just like this boy, asking, "Can I make silk?" He is being asked for making dolls, and he's asking to manufacture silk. Just see. They’re simply concocting how to make, these boys. I have to deal with them. Their ideas are how to spoil the standard, that's all. Restless. He was asking for manufacturing silk. Who asked him to manufacture silk?

Govinda dāsī: His wife?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Govinda dāsī: Perhaps his wife wanted to do it.

Prabhupāda: Why? For silk they are not dying.

Govinda dāsī: She is into weaving wool. She takes raw wool and weaves it. And so she likes to do that.

Prabhupāda: Wool, wool?

Govinda dāsī: Wool.

Prabhupāda: But he's . . . he's saying silk.

Govinda dāsī: But now she wants to do silk. So maybe that's why. They bought one loom.

Prabhupāda: Wool, wool is . . . wool means this earth.

Siddha-svarūpa: Wool is from sheep.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: They don’t kill him.

Prabhupāda: I know that. And why not make cotton wool?

Govinda dāsī: Cotton wool?

Prabhupāda: Cotton wool is available from the tree. You know that?

Govinda dāsī: Yes, cotton's from . . .

Prabhupāda: Cotton wool.

Siddha-svarūpa: Cotton grows well in Hawaii.

Govinda dāsī: Well . . . yes.

Prabhupāda: Then utilize that. Make thread, make cloth. Which is available naturally, utilize it. Don’t bother very much.

Govinda dāsī: It's so easy to get such things, though.

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Govinda dāsī: It's so easy to get such things. They’re . . . to buy them cheaply.

Prabhupāda: Cotton, he said there are many trees.

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, there are not . . . ah . . . they’re . . . in some places there are.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Siddha-svarūpa: But if somebody wanted to grow it, they could grow it very easily.

Prabhupāda: Grow it. Yes. As far as possible, grow. You have got enough land—grow. This practice will save your time. You are loitering here and there. Try to be self-sufficient in a place, for the needs. Don’t create needs. Whatever is available, meet your needs from that.

Siddha-svarūpa: Even our food.

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Our first necessity is food and clothing. So that can be done anywhere: you grow your food and grow your cloth, the material necessities. And you can have a small cottage. We should always remember that we are not materialists. We are not going to pompous show that, "I have got this material possession." That is not our business. But because we have got this body, that is the basic principle of Vedic civilization. We need something to eat, to sleep, so finish this business as simply as possible, and save time for spiritual advancement. Just see. Vyāsadeva has given unique literature, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Not only Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam—there is Mahābhārata, Purāṇas, Upaniṣads. There is no such literature throughout the world—you can say throughout the universe. But at least you cannot find such duplicate literature any part of the world. And the Gosvāmīs, they were in cottage. They were not after this so-called material life. That is simply a waste of time. These rascals, they . . . they spending so much energy for devising this skyscraper building. One man is devising; another man . . . another man is devising another way. In this way, they are spoiling the valuable time of life. That is the defect of this. And they have no time to grow natural food; their energy is being misused for standing in skyscraper building. And therefore to make shortcut of their eating, kill the animal. Just like uncivilized man in the primitive age, they did not how to produce food. Kill one animal and eat.

So these rascals, they’re still barbarian because they have diverted their energy in making machine, motorcar and this skyscraper building. So no growing, no food, so the same primitive . . . they used to kill one animal; that is going on. They remain the barbarian. Simply they have learned some craftsmanship, that's all. But the mentality is barbarian. The uncivilized man, in the primitive . . . uncivilized man is still there; it is not Darwin's theory, that now uncivilized. That chapter is always there. But civilized man, they have turned their attention in some ludicrous activities and keeping themselves in the same barbarian stage—kill some animal, kill some bird—to make shortcut. They did not know how to get fruits, flowers, grains, and how to cook them nicely and offer to the Deity and then chant, dance and take prasādam. The uncivilized man did not know that. So they’re remaining still the same uncivilized barbarians. They do not know the civilized way of life. And their intelligence is being utilized in technology so much. Now they’re finding difficulty in educational system: the boys are giving hell. They have to conduct education with guns and police.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now the result is coming. The whole society is in chaos. And they are coming to that.

Siddha-svarūpa: They will have to be very repressive.

Prabhupāda: Everything will be. There will be atomic war. The Communists, the capitalists, the children spoilt, hippies, and whole thing is hell. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: when there is varṇa-saṅkara, the world will become hellish. Varṇa-saṅkara means not civilized man, but topsy-turvy. Nobody knows who is brāhmin, who is kṣatriya—all mixed up, conglomeration. This is called varṇa-saṅkara. The hippies are typical example. So they’re coming to that stage. Then the whole world will be hell. You haven’t got to go to hell—Yamarāja—you create hell here, and live. It is already there—not so much manifest, but it will be manifest very . . . I’ll cut your throat; you’ll cut my throat. (pause)

Vedic civilization is to develop brains how to understand God, not develop brain for technology. These things are being done by the demons: big, big palaces, wonderful aeroplane, like that. They’re interested in . . . the demons, they’re not interested in God; rather, they have got good brain, they utilize. So modern civilization is demonic because their brain is being utilized for things which are done by the demons. Just like Rāvaṇa, he was very much advanced in material opulence, but still he has been designated as rākṣasa. He has not been given any credit. Rākṣasa. Hmm.

Siddha-svarūpa: Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)