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751006 - Morning Walk - Durban

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

751006MW-DURBAN - October 06, 1975 - 34:00 Minutes

(in car)

Prabhupāda: English, economics, philosophy or . . . mostly Scottish . . . I was educated in Scottish Churches College. The philosophy professor, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he was very friendly to me, very kind, just like father. (break) . . . he became vice-chancellor. He was a very learned man, and very nice man, W. S. Urquhart.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they teach in English or Bengali?

Prabhupāda: No, no, English. Medium English.

Harikeśa: He was the one who said that the woman's brain is thirty-six ounces?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (chuckles) Yes. No, not only he, another professor, Dr. Stephen, he also said. That's a fact. Artificially they are trying. It has no meaning. But by agitation you can do anything. That is another thing. But that is not the fact. (break) Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). These are all Indian quarters? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area? No, I think this is more European. But where we're staying is Indian area. It's all Indian.

Prabhupāda: These European professors, they had to learn Bengali. They knew Bengali. It was compulsory. All European officers who used to come to India for responsible post, it was obligated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Did they come mostly for missionary work? Was that their purpose?

Prabhupāda: Our professors, they came from missionary, but there were other officers in government service, I.C.S., Indian Civil Service. They were also. In the province where they were employed he must learn the provincial language. Their administration was excellent, undoubtedly, British administration. Nobody in the world, so far administration . . . But their crooked policy ruined them. Otherwise good administrator, good politician, good diplomat.

Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Heart.

Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their fault. Exploitation was their policy. Whole European—the France, Holland—go some other country and exploit. They were doing the same thing in America also. Therefore America rebelled. Washington was Englishman. Still, he rebelled. He separated. Independent. A small country, and bring money from the whole world—this is their bad policy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's actually amazing how they colonized.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was actually amazing to think how they colonized almost . . .

Prabhupāda: They were obliged to do that. In the country there is no food, no shelter, nothing. Therefore Hitler's determination was, "I shall make this shopkeeper nation again fishers." What is called? Fishermen. "I shall ruin their empire." So he did it. But he also became ruined. He did it. He ruined the Englishmen, but he also became ruined, finished, Germany finished. But Germany will be able to rise again. Englishmen will not be able to.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why is that, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: They committed so many sinful activities, yes, for maintaining their empire. To sell their Manchester-made cloth they ruined the cloth industry of India and cut this finger.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Cut the thumb off.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Thumbs of the weavers, so that they cannot manufacture anymore.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very bad.

Prabhupāda: There are so many other things.

Harikeśa: They cut the thumbs of the weavers?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They were making finer cloth by hand than the British were making by machines. So in order to discourage, they would cut off the thumb so they couldn't weave.

Prabhupāda: So many things. And to make a show, the Lord Hasting was impeached in the Parliament. Here the black men, they are Africans.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. In this country there's nineteen million Africans and about over five million Europeans, about one million Indian people, and about one million colored people.

Prabhupāda: So these women, what they are carrying on the head?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. What do they carry, Gokulendra Prabhu?

Gokulendra: They carry all sorts of things, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Sometimes they carry their supplies that they . . .

Prabhupāda: They are local women or . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. But they don't allow the Africans to live in the cities. They have to travel long distances, unless they are servants at some house. For the Africans to live in the cities, they have passes. They have to have a pass.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Black men. The Indians, they cannot? They can?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Indians don't need pass. The Indians, however, they were only allowed to live where they were born. They aren't allowed to move around. But this year they finished that law. Now the Indians can live anywhere in South Africa in Indian areas. They can move around to different cities. Before this year they weren't allowed to do it.

Prabhupāda: So post service is not good?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good. But the Africans, they are so many they have to queue up. I don't think, in America, that the American Negroes would be able to queue up and wait as patiently as these people. I think they have a little . . .

Prabhupāda: They have been trained up.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: British influence. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . appears it is very clean city.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This area is. Downtown it's not so clean. Downtown is not so clean. This area is.

Prabhupāda: This is residential or industrial?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Over here is all residential, European apartment houses. And along the beach there is all hotels. This is a very big resort area in South Africa. There's a . . . Whole south coast, going down for about eighty miles, is all resorts. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . English-made city?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Durban is English city. Cape Town has Dutch influence.

Prabhupāda: It resembles Melbourne. Melbourne. Australian Melbourne, this quarter resembles. (break) . . . from Indian Ocean?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Indian Ocean.

Prabhupāda: Africa, one side Atlantic, one side Indian. (break) . . . is growing on the sand, and they say there is no life in the sand.

(break) (on walk on windy beach)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . the beach. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . bhoga. Bhoga means "sense gratification," and aiśvarya, "opulence." Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44): "Those who are lost of consciousness, such persons become attached to sense gratification and material opulence," bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, "and not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ: "How to become spiritually liberated, they do not care for it." These things do not interest them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We're finding that most of our devotees, though, are coming from America. America is the most opulent place.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not most coming; some coming. The American population is very great. If most would have come, then things would have been different.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Some of the fortunate persons like you, you are coming. Kona, kona, "some fortunate." Kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). But you can convert them to become fortunate. Devotee can do that. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. They are thinking very much advanced, but they are lost of their sense, lost of their intelligence. They think of us as foolish. We do not enjoy life. (laughter) And we think of them as animals. This is the position. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
(BG 2.41)

Those who are spiritually fixed up, their determination is one, and those who are not fixed up, their mind is diverted in so many things, unnecessary things. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . vādīs have given the philosophy that "Yes, vyavasāyātmikā-buddhir ekeha, make the intelligence one, but you can think of anything. You can think of a rock, you can think of the sky . . ."

Prabhupāda: You rascal. Anything . . . Anything one. So if I think of hell, will that do?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Māyāvādī says, "Anything is as good as anything else."

Prabhupāda: Yes. How rascal they are. Anything else . . . This is Ramakrishna Mission's. They are rascals. These rascals, they do not know anything, and still, they have made a missionary activity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I have read one Māyāvādī, he says that it's as good to meditate on your wife as it is to meditate on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I read that, really. So degraded.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you take sannyāsa? Think of your wife at home. Why do you take sannyāsa? Just see how rascal they are.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have gone against all the Vedic principles.

Prabhupāda: Remain at home; think of your wife. Everyone is doing that. Then why do you take sannyāsa and cheat others? Māyāvādam asac-chāstram (Padma Purāṇa). Asat, it is very abominable philosophy. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . is about twenty miles up this coast.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The house that I was telling you about, the other house, is twenty miles up this coast.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) . . . only on Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, all these Māyāvādīs would have disturbed us. They got . . . This man says this, this man says this . . . We kick out all these things. Only what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. Asac-chāstram pracchannaṁ bauddham ucyate. You can take.

Harikeśa: (whispers:) Sit in the back. (break)

(in car)

Gokulendra: Yesterday, on Saturday morning, we had the first saṅkīrtana in the European area, chanting.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Praison? (?)

Gokulendra: Yes. The police stopped us after about half an hour.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They went into the European area yesterday for chanting, Saturday morning. Usually we do the Indian area in Durban. But in Johannesburg we only do the European area saṅkīrtana. We have no trouble there. They say that Durban, being very much . . . (aside; car is stuck:) You have to rock the car? Did the truck go? Yes? Why doesn't Prabhupāda go back in the truck?

Gokulendra: It's stuck in the sand. We'll have to push to make the wheels straight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So let Prabhupāda come back in the truck. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . have gone too much in the sand. It is dangerous. (break) . . . expanded so much, these Britishers, a few million people. This is demonic. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye manoratham (BG 16.13): "I have got now so much. Now let me increase more." Never satisfied. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye mano: "I want to be the richest man, the world." That was the British policy—ambition. Material ambition is like that. It increases more and more. (break) . . . British buildings or American?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: South African.

Prabhupāda: South African.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A lot of investment comes from both America and England, industries.

Prabhupāda: So England has got money to invest still?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They do much investment here in South Africa. (break) Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's a sidewalk here. Would you prefer walking on the sidewalk or the sands?

Prabhupāda: Yes, sidewalk is better.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. A little bit hard on the . . .

Harikeśa: Did we pass by a park when we were coming?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We will check out some places today. (break) . . . cold spell now.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A cold spell. It's been cold the last few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . keepers are mostly Indians?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Indian. All here are Indian. And just the other side of the bridge, all is Indian. This building here, Prabhupāda, this big building is built by one of our Life Members. All of our Life Members, they are competing who can build bigger building.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughing)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And they are putting nightclubs on the top of their buildings. So foolish.

Prabhupāda: Lakhani. This is Indian building.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These are Life Members.

Prabhupāda: Lakhani.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: P. V. Lakhani. He was there last night.

Prabhupāda: So they are improving in the midst of obstacles, eh? The Indians?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are not given good facilities. Still, they are improving.

(break) . . . is there in your stock?

Harikeśa: Chewra is.

Prabhupāda: Chewra is there.

Harikeśa: Puffed rice?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Chewra also we can purchase.

Harikeśa: Yesterday that puffed rice was Rice Krispies, cereal.

Prabhupāda: That was nice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You like with peas?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Peanuts?

Prabhupāda: Not peas, that green . . . Yes, green peas.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Green peas. Fried.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like yesterday. That's nice. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). (break) . . . things without Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dead body. Aprāṇasya hi dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam (Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11). It may be captivating to the foolish men, but it has no value. Because the person who is engaged in these things, he does not know what is the value of life, what is the goal of life. He is wasting time. The house will remain as it is; he will go to hell. That he does not know.

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīsa . . .
(SB 7.5.31)

The nature's law is different. That is acting in a different way, which you do not know. He is forcing you to become old. He is forcing you to die. Still, you do not know how much you are under the grip of the laws of nature. Such a foolish man, and you are engaged in building skyscraper. Just see. He does not take care that "I am being forced to become something against my will, and I am freely doing all these nonsense." Just like the dog. Dog is thinking, "I am free," running here and there. As soon as the master, "Come on . . ." (laughter) Just see. Dog has no sense, "I was jumping like free, but I am not free." That sense he hasn't got. So if a human being has not so such sense, then what is the difference between him and the dog? Hmm? This is to be considered. But they have no sense, no brain, no education, and they are still going on as civilized. Just see. Mūḍha. Therefore mūḍho nābhijānāti (BG 7.25).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think that this is the most civilized that human beings have ever been, this modern so-called civilization.

Prabhupāda: Civilization . . . If you remain in a dog's position, is that civilization?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No

Prabhupāda: I proved that you are in a dog's position. How can you refute the argument which I have put, that you are in a dog's position? Exactly the dog. Śva-viḍ-varāha. Dog's position, hog's position, camel's position and ass's position. These four animals have been compared. Śva, viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, khara. And "I have been given vote." Yes. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). You are animal, and other animals, they are giving you vote. That's all. You are very much proud that you are minister, you have got vote, but who has given you vote? The same animal class. What is the meaning of your vote? Śva-viḍ . . . How selected words in the Bhāgavatam. Śva-vi-varāhoṣṭra-kharai saṁstuta puruṣa paśuḥ.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This desire to accumulate money, is this just like annamaya stage?

Prabhupāda: That is doggish. The example, he has got already one loaf, but another dog: "This is also my stock." Why you should hanker after another? You have got already. Be satisfied. "No." That is doggish mentality. (end)