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751026 - Morning Walk - Mauritius

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

751026MW-MAURITIUS - October 26, 1975 - 40:21 Minutes

Prabhupāda: So the news was there that Jesus Christ, after crucification, he was alive, and he went to. . . (aside:) Not so near. And he went to Kashmir. So by the yogic process, in samādhi one can remain alive although superficially he is seen that he is killed. That is possible. Hiraṇyakaśipu did that. He was undergoing tapasya for one hundred years of the demigods. Their duration of time is: our six months, their one day. So such a long time he was undergoing austerity, penance, and thus he became perfect. So his body was practically finished by the earthworm, what is called, moths and ants.

Brahmānanda: Because he was standing still?

Prabhupāda: Yes. For so many years everything was eaten. Only on the bones were there.

Brahmānanda: So he appeared to be dead, but he wasn't.

Prabhupāda: No, he was not dead. He was living on bones. Bones were there. Mean, life is not dependent on this material body. One can practice this by yoga. Without this body he can live. Just like ghost. That is possible.

Brahmānanda: Yes, the yogīs are able to stop their breathing. . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: . . .and stop their heart beating, and still they are not dead.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is perfection of astanga-yoga, samādhi, to remain in trance. (break) Yes. Actually he was not dead.

Cyavana: He never died.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He practiced yoga from India. For twelve years he was there.

Brahmānanda: In India. So is that a fact, that he went to India?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise how he came to Kashmir? He knew. And when he was in India his mother died. That Aquarian Gospel? Father and mother died.

Brahmānanda: In the book that Haṁsadūta published, of Christ, Kristos and Krishna, these things are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is in the Aquarian Gospel. (break) Dr. Wolf has said that he cannot accept from Krishna to Krista. Then, by that word, he has proved himself another rascal, because he does not know the Sanskrit way of philology. Sanskrit, there are vargas—ka-varga, ca-varga, ṭa-varga, ta-varga and pa-varga—five vargas. So Kṛṣṇa is in the ṭa-varga. Ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa. So Kṛṣ-ṇa, it can be replaced by ṭa also. (laughter) He does not know that, this rascal. That is the difficulty. These Western rascals, little knowledge, they think very good scholar. That is the difficulty.

Brahmānanda: He is very proud.

Prabhupāda: Because he has got that doctorate title, so he thinks that he has conquered all over the world. Sapari jala-matrena phora-phoraya.(?) You'll find some fish, a small, little water: (makes sound) "phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr."

Brahmānanda: Making big noise.

Prabhupāda: And a big fish, they'll remain in the middle, whale fish. And a small fish, (makes noise) "phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr, phrr." Sapari phora phoraya. So he is a small fish. He is thinking that he knows everything. What does he know about these five vargas? Does he know anything? Ka-varga, ca-varga, ṭa-varga. So ṭa-varga means ṭa, ṭha, ḍa, ḍha, ṇa. So the ṇa is there. So it can be replaced by ṭa.

Harikeśa: I think he was also the same one who was saying the Aquarian Gospel was just somebody's dream. It was just somebody's dream.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that's all. Or we have no respite. This is our process. That is the way of paramparā. Not only we accept, but our previous ācāryas, all the big, big ācāryas, they have accepted. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. He is ācārya. Vyāsadeva says from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream—your dream or my dream—this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?

Brahmānanda: That's why they're always bickering with one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no standard idea. I dream some way; you dream some way. That's all. What is this?

Cyavana: Seaweed.

Brahmānanda: It looks like a sponge.

Cyavana: Plant.

Prabhupāda: That is their defect. If my dream is wrong, why your dream should be right? That they did not conceive of, just "My dream is right(?)." And if you say that "Your dream is also wrong," yes, I do not dream; I take the facts from the authority. We do not dream. Dream is dream, either yours or mine. It doesn't matter.

Brahmānanda: Well, some people question whether that Aquarian Gospel is authority.

Prabhupāda: Why Bible is authority? Who cares for Bible? Nobody cares for Bible. So there, some supporter for some book, these, you will always find it. Huh? Now they are decrying, deriding Bible also. So how do you say that Bible is authority when so many things have changed?

Brahmānanda: Even they are changing their interpretation of the. . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: . . .Bible regularly.

Prabhupāda: So if you don't accept Aquarian Gospel authority, who cares for your Bible? At least Aquarian Gospel has been written by some Christian. It is not outsider.

Harikeśa: They say he was a drunk.

Prabhupāda: But you are a mad. He is drunk, and you are mad. Where is the difference? So, if we can go? (break) It was a statement that the earth is flat. Eh? Where it was stated the earth is flat?

Harikeśa: Oh. That was a theory of one of the contemporary Roman philosophers.

Prabhupāda: It is not in Bible.

Harikeśa: No. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is no information in the Bible at all about God. There's no information about God, simply that God is there, He's the creator, but nothing more.

Prabhupāda: That is in no scripture excepting Vedic scripture. Clear conception of God is there in the Vedic. Definition of God, clear conception of God, everything is there.

Brahmānanda: Their idea is that God is so great that you cannot see Him.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You cannot see, because you are worthless. But those who are worthful, those who have attained liberation, they can see. Just like it is stated in the Bhāgavata, apasyat puruṣam purnam. Apasyat: "He saw, Vyāsadeva." Huh? Bhakti-yogena manasi samyak pranihite amale apasyat (SB 1.7.4). When your heart will be completely cleared of all this material conception, then you can see. So long you are materially contaminated, it is not possible. That's a fact. But bhakti-yogena samyak pranihite amale. When the heart is cleansed, that is the process. Therefore we are insisting that "Let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa." Ceto-darpana-marjanam (CC Antya 20.12). The heart will be cleansed. Then they will understand. All of a sudden, if you speak all this philosophy, "Kṛṣṇa said," they will accept that "Why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary man. Why shall I. . ."

Brahmānanda: They will argue.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Because the heart is full of dirty things, so therefore ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, this is the process. First of all cleanse the heart. Just like slate, if it is unclean, or the mirror, if it is unclean, you cannot see. So you have to cleanse it first. That we can do. The Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. . . And that is proof. Otherwise how could you come to this camp unless the heart is cleansed? That's a proof.

Brahmānanda: They came by the chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some fish? No.

Brahmānanda: In the Old Testament, God was speaking to Moses. So Moses wanted to see God. He was on a mountain. And he turned around, but then God became a burning bush.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was supposed to be the back of God. The burning bush was the back of God.

Prabhupāda: Burning bush?

Brahmānanda: A bush that was on fire.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: That's what. . .

Prabhupāda: God has no material body.

Brahmānanda: Because he was not qualified to see God.

Prabhupāda: Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa nāmādi na bhaved grahyam indriyaiḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). By these material senses, you cannot understand God. Nāmādi. Even you cannot understand His holy name. All understanding of God begins by chanting the holy name. So by chanting, chanting, because God is not different from the name, you associate with name. . ., er, with God, and then you become cleansed. This is the process. God is not different from His holy name. So you chant the holy name of God, that means you associate with God immediately. Just like you associate with the sun immediately, er, sunshine, you become warm; similarly, by associating with God, you become God conscious. This is our program. We are giving chance people to associate with God directly by chanting His holy name. God is omnipotent. His name is as omnipotent as He is. These fools, they do not know that.

Brahmānanda: They think it's some lesser; it's ordinary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And if you say, "Why, then, 'Kṛṣṇa'? There are many names," so Caitanya: "Yes, any name of God, if it is God's name, it is as powerful." If it is God's name. "Any name" does not mean you manufacture some name. That is not. Any name by which one can understand this is God's name, that is there said. Nāmnam akari bahudha-nija sarva-śaktis tatrarpita niyamitaḥ smarane na kalaḥ (Śikṣāṣṭaka 2). This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching. If you do not accept Kṛṣṇa as a God's name, then if you have your own name of Kṛṣṇa, er, God, chant it.

Brahmānanda: But it must be standard.

Prabhupāda: Must be God's name.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. But if you do not know what is God's name, then what you will chant? What you will chant? Then you chant "Kṛṣṇa." We know it is God's name. Take. Take to our principle. If there is no medical college, come to our medical college. You are welcome. Why you are envious? You have no medical college; at the same time, you are envious of my medical college. Why? Why this nonsense? If you want to learn medical science—you have no medical science college—come here. This is our proposal. Why you are envious? That means rascal. "Our gold." Gold is "our gold"? Everyone's gold. "Our gold." What do you mean, "our gold"? Gold is always gold, either in your hand or in my hand. In your hand it is not Christian gold, and in my hand it is not Hindu gold. Gold is gold.

nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija sarva śaktis
tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ
(CC Antya 20.16, Śikṣāṣṭaka 2)

In the Bible there is no specific name of God. Eh?

Brahmānanda: Well, they say "Jehovah" and "Yaweḥ."

Prabhupāda: Not fixed up. The Māyāvāda. If you have no fixed name of God, then why don't you chant "Kṛṣṇa"? What is the harm? But envious. Therefore paramo nirmatśaraṇaṁ (SB 1.1.2). One who has completely eradicated from the envious conception of life, they can take to this way. (break) . . .climate of this island is good.

Cyavana: It's pleasant.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (break) . . .right time. I don't think he had many followers.

Cyavana: Very few.

Prabhupāda: Only twelve, and out of them some proved infidel.

Cyavana: Yes.

Brahmānanda: One betrayed him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: Peter?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Judah.

Prabhupāda: And after resurrection he had to go away to India.

Cyavana: Yes. 'Cause they tried to kill him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if he was declared that "I am not dead," perhaps he would have been again crucified.

Cyavana: Yes. They would keep trying to kill him.

Prabhupāda: Because the people were so intelligent, they would not believe it, so out of fear he went away: "All right, stop my preaching. Come on. (laughs) Let me go to find some safe place." (laughter)

Cyavana: He created a great impression on the minds of men for many, many generations.

Prabhupāda: Imperson?

Cyavana: Impression.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Impression.

Cyavana: Yes. By his preaching he left a strong impression.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: Christianity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's like the flowery words of the Vedas, flowery words of the Vedas, mostly simply dealing with moral principles.

Prabhupāda: That also broken. He said, "Thou shall not kill." They broke it.

Cyavana: Yes, they broke every. . .

Prabhupāda: Everything. (break) Hearing is there. Therefore the other items, eating, sleeping and mating, must be there. So there is arrangement for them, everything, within the sand. How you can say within the sand there is no life?

Brahmānanda: They think they can have the eating and the sleeping and the mating, and not the fearing. They want to have the eating, the sleeping and the mating but not the fearing.

Prabhupāda: Why? Here is fearing. Why they are going out? They know we are a different living entity.

Brahmānanda: No, the materialists, the human beings.

Prabhupāda: There is no fearing?

Brahmānanda: Well, they don't want fearing.

Prabhupāda: They don't want. . . They don't want anything, but it is forced upon him. That is their rascaldom. They don't want something, but it is forced upon him. Still, he says, "No, I am not under control." That is his foolishness.

Brahmānanda: That means he's a rascal.

Prabhupāda: Rascal. That is rascal. Obstinate. Which is fact, he is obstinate—that is rascal. Dog's obstinacy. (break) . . .manufacture life with chemical, still obstinate: "Yes."

Brahmānanda: "We shall do it."

Prabhupāda: "Yes. We shall do it, future." That's all. This is dog's obstinacy. We say, "Take one egg. Analyze what chemicals are there. Put together." "No." "Yes, it will be. . ." And we have to accept this obstinacy as science? It is open. If you are really scientist, you take the egg, analyze what chemicals are there.

Brahmānanda: Yeah, they are able to analyze, and they also have the chemicals.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So what's the problem?

Prabhupāda: What is the problem? But still, these rascals will say that he is right. You see? He cannot even analyze properly, and still he is obstinate he is right. This rascaldom is going on. And if we say "rascal," they are angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śānta . . .: "To a rascal, if you give the right instruction, they will be simply angry." That's all. Not pacification; they will be angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam (Nīti Śāstra): just like the serpent, rascal. If you give him milk, he'll drink it and increase his poison. That's it. The result will be he will increase his poison. Better to keep them starvation. Therefore everyone, as soon as one sees the serpent, immediately kills. No consideration. "Here is a serpent. Kill him." Similarly, immediately we see the scientists, kill. (laughter) That is the only proccess, so-called scientists. So do you agree, Harikeśa, for kicking on the face of these rascals or not?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is fair proposal. You take one egg, analyze. If you are scientist, you find out what are the chemicals—you have got all the chemicals—and mix it up, the color yellow, and dip into, what is called, celluloid? Or. . .?

Brahmānanda: Cellulose?

Prabhupāda: Cellulose, covering?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: It is just like cellulose. And put underneath the incubator and get. Then we shall accept you. Why not ask all these rascals all over the world?

Brahmānanda: One thing the egg has, the egg has. . . It's red because there is blood there for nourishment. And they cannot even produce blood. They have to get the blood. . .

Prabhupāda: Take blood from the slaughterhouse and put it. If blood is necessary, the tons of blood available. You take it and put it here. That is also another chemical. That's all. Why don't you do that? Little blood required, there is no question of manufacturing. You can get it from slaughterhouse, tons. Take little drops and put it. It is blood. Where is your science, nonsense? This is practical suggestion. Challenge them in big, big meeting. (break) . . .past it was coming this side, and fifteen minutes, it has gone down. How many tons of water has gone down on this beach within fifteen minutes? Is there any scientist who can. . .?

Brahmānanda: They cannot control the water in that way. (break) It's like there was a big valve, and someone has shut the valve. . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: . . .and so the water is getting less. It is controlled.

Prabhupāda: And who is controlling? It is not under my control. First time I wanted to go, I could not. But this time I can. So under whose control? It is my control or somebody else?

Brahmānanda: Well, they will say "automatic control."

Prabhupāda: What is that "automatic"? That is their stupidity. Everything is being done under control. What is the automatic? (break) . . .automatic means you have to wait for that automatic control. You cannot do.

Cyavana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the meaning of "automatic"?

Brahmānanda: But their idea is that they can change the automatic control to suit their own. . .

Prabhupāda: That is their. . . That is their stupidity. Therefore they are fit for being kicked. That is the disease—imagining, obstinacy. They cannot do anything; still they'll claim they can do it. "Pay me my salary."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the position of the scientist who studies the laws of nature and then he tries to utilize them for his advantage, exploits them?

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The law is there. That is not his law. So his intelligence will be there when he understands who has made this law. Then his intelligence. That is intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just like making airplane. They observe the bird, and then they make. . .

Prabhupāda: Now, that they. . . When they admit, "Oh, this law is made by the (indistinct—heavy static)," then they come to senses.

Brahmānanda: They become?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "To their senses."

Brahmānanda: To their senses. Yes.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as they remain in darkness—"Yes, we are trying to control the laws. Future, we shall do"—they're nonsense, stupid. You become educated, scientist, mathematician, very good. But ultimately you accept that the law is given by Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then you are perfect.

Harikeśa: One scientist once wrote a book, and in this book a person had some disease, so they invented a little spaceship which was very, very tiny, and they went in through the eye and they saw all of the workings of the body, how all the red blood cells and white blood cells were working and attacking the disease and all these things.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: They made a cinema of this. Very famous.

Harikeśa: So there was one scene in which they are looking out and seeing all of these. . ., this fight going on inside the blood, and the one scientist inside the machine said, "How can they say there is no God?"

Brahmānanda: Even when the American astronauts went up, they brought a Bible with them, and when they saw the earth, how wonderful it was. . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When they didn't make it to the moon.

Brahmānanda: . . .they quoted from the Bible about how wonderful the creation of God is, how He has made it.

Prabhupāda: And only they saw the moon planet is. . ., there is no living entity. Why God made the moon planet? To keep it vacant? Full of dust?

Brahmānanda: Yes. They become more proud that this earth planet is so full and other planets are all vacant.

Prabhupāda: So God is so fool that He made all other planets vacant, and here for the rascals, there is. . . (laughter) Full of rascals.

Harikeśa: Well, He had to put the dust somewhere. That's one of the theories, that all of the gas. . . In the beginning all the gas was circulating around, and it solidified into different planets.

Prabhupāda: So why this planet is full of living entities? Why not others? What is that gas? What particular gas was circulating this planet? So take this gas, circulate over here, and get living entities there and live there. Why don't you do that, you scientists? Why you are disappointed? You are going to Venus. Just see. This rascaldom we have to believe.

Harikeśa: That's the next famous theory after the chunk theory.

Prabhupāda: It is simply waste of time even to talk with these fools.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The governments are giving billions and billions of dollars. . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . .in scientific grants.

Prabhupāda: All means another set of fools, that's all. (break) . . .whole world is unhappy on account of being controlled by different set of fools. That is the calamity. If they say, "There are so many educated persons. They are controlling, and you are saying 'fools.' Why?" then what you will answer?

Harikeśa: "Kṛṣṇa says it."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mūḍha.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, narādhama māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). They have no knowledge. "Why no knowledge? Degrees." No, this is māyā. "What is the cause?" Aśuri-bhavam aśritaḥ: godless rascal. Therefore he's a mūḍha.

Harikeśa: So it's not that we're so much concerned about science, but rather the aśuravāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: We don't have to research, because our conclusion is already there.

Prabhupāda: Already there. And it is acting, practical. How from the stone this has come? Stone and sand, but they are life; it is green. (break) . . .this?

Brahmānanda: This is a type of tree. There's many of them like this.

Prabhupāda: What is this? . . . (indistinct) . . .? Now. . . Just see how fresh it is. You can take some foodstuff and eat very nicely.

Cyavana: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: And then throw it. That's all. What is the use of keeping on the veranda for three years? (laughter) I am seeing every day, so carefully.

Devotee: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)