751101 - Morning Walk - Nairobi
Girl devotee: . . . lotus flower.
Prabhupāda: All right. (break) They cannot enjoy. We are enjoying. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: They are sleeping. They are thinking they are enjoying.
Brahmānanda: One has to know what is enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be. We are utilizing it because we are fortunate. (break) . . . explaining last night that earth, water, air, fire, they have come from Kṛṣṇa's energy. Can you explain how it has come? Any one of you. People may say that "You can say like that, but prove that the earth has come from Kṛṣṇa."
Devotee (1): You said last night . . . you mentioned a verse from the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8), that Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is your scripture says. But I am a third person. Why shall I believe in your scripture? You prove. You are quoting from your own scripture. I don't take your scripture. You give me practical explanation how earth has come from Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): Well, one has to accept the scriptures.
Prabhupāda: So that you may accept.
Devotee (1): This is what Kṛṣṇa has left here five thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: "That's all right. It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter."
Devotee (1): . . . for your benefit, for everyone because you are part of Kṛṣṇa too.
Prabhupāda: That is your saying. You prove that.
Devotee (1): That's not my saying. That's the Supreme Lord's saying.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Indian man (2): Like a child has to accept the authority of her mother to know about our father.
Prabhupāda: That is all right, but you give some practical explanation that how earth has come from . . .
Devotee (1): The only practical explanation we can have or any living entity has is that explanation which his father gives him, the Supreme Lord gives him. He has given us . . .
Prabhupāda: That is all right.
Devotee (1): . . . explanation in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Still, vijñāna means jñāna and viveka. Viveka means personal conviction. That is called vijñāna. Jñāna and vijñāna. One knowledge you get from me, and then you practically apply your consciousness that "Yes, what Prabhupāda has said, it is right." That is called vijñāna. One knowledge, accepting blindly from the authority, that is knowledge. But how it is practically made or done, that understanding is called vijñāna.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of . . .
Prabhupāda: Give that example. That I wanted.
Devotee (2): We have so many examples of scientific creations by intelligent brain, personalities, on this planet—so many things which we can see, like the clothes we wear and the machines we are using in our everyday lives which require . . .
Prabhupāda: So how Kṛṣṇa has prepared earth? That I want.
Devotee (2): So we can see by studying the nature of the construction of this earth that it is much more intelligent . . .
Prabhupāda: So how earth is coming from Kṛṣṇa? Tell me that.
Devotee (3): The scientists say that this earth came from gases, but they cannot explain exactly where those gases have come from. That source, that is Kṛṣṇa, those gases.
Prabhupāda: No, they do not know, but we know. How in your abdo . . . belly gas is formed? How? There was no gas, but automatically the gas is formed. And therefore sometimes, if it is much gas, then you go for treatment. So this is the practical. The gas is also generating from my body. So as I am an individual, insignificant body, if there is possibility of generating little gas, so Kṛṣṇa's gigantic body, why not gigantic volume of gas? This is the explanation.
Jñāna: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. So we understand if it's energy there must be an energetic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that, because my body is very small. But Kṛṣṇa's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great; I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. Why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, so huge, I mean to say, volume of water, gas and everything as we see it is coming? So therefore Kṛṣṇa is correct. He's correct, but for our understanding we can understand like this. Chemicals. The chemicals coming from our body. There are so many salt. And you test the blood or the perspiration, you'll find so many chemicals.
Brahmānanda: For us to . . . for our body to produce earth . . .
Prabhupāda: Now, just to produce . . . just to understand that I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so the chemical and the water and the earth is coming from my body, so why not Kṛṣṇa's body, gigantic, the greatest, the chemicals, water, earth, water . . .? When Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo (BG 7.4), "It is My energy," that's fact. Where is the difficulty to understand? We can . . . we are little sample of God, a small God. So if we can produce, this body . . . the spirit soul as I have described yesterday, one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair, it is very, very minute. From that minute spirit so much earth, water, fire is coming. So why not the supreme spirit, huge quantity of water, earth will not come? How one can deny it?
Harikeśa: Well, but verbal analogies don't prove the scientific a fact.
Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. Verbal analogy is proof. A small quantity, a small quantity producing; large quantity, large quantity producing. Where is the verbal? This is practical.
Harikeśa: But that's assuming that God has a body . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, God has a body.
Harikeśa: . . . or there even is a God.
Prabhupāda: Huh? But that is . . . you are blind rascal, you cannot see. That does not mean that He has no body. You cannot see even the president's body here. That means president has no body? You rascal, you cannot understand. Because you cannot see the president's body, you cannot say, "No, the president is bodyless." That is your defect. You become qualified to see the president, you'll see he has got a body. Those who are not qualified to see him, they can say that he has no body. But why he has no body? Śāstra says. So if you remain fools and rascals, that is another thing, but He has a body. Iśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda vigraha, Brahmā is saying. Why He has no body? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Vigraha means body.
Harikeśa: But we don't know, so we're taking the known and speculating on that . . .
Prabhupāda: You do not know; therefore you have to learn. If you want to remain rascal, fool, and still you want to know, that is not possible. You have to know from the real source. Then you'll know. But if you keep yourself in the rascal platform, then how you will know? Just like you have to go to school to learn things. So how you can learn at home? Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You have to go in order to understand that science. So how do you argue, keeping yourself in darkness? In darkness you cannot see anything. "Oh, I do not see anything; therefore there is nothing." Is that very good reason? You are blind, you cannot see the darkness, that is another thing. But things are there. You make your eyes operated and manifest your vision. Then you'll see.
Therefore, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur-unmīlitaṁ yena tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ (Gautamīya Tantra). Everyone is blind, in darkness. He cannot see anything. So one who opens the eyes, jñānāñjana-śalākayā, by the torch of knowledge, he is guru. This is description of guru. If you are blind and have a blind guru, that is no use. Guru means who is not blind. I may be blind. Then that will be effective. This is no reason, "I cannot see." What you are? You can see? You cannot see even the president, and you want to see God without being qualified? This is laymans', rascal's reason, "I cannot see. I do not see." What you are? What you can see? You do not first of all evaluate what is your position, and you want to see something. The formula is there: premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of God is always seeing God. So where is that qualification? You are not lover of God; you are lover of dog. So how you can see God? You can see dog, that's all. Go on seeing dog perpetually. And at the time of death see the dog and become a dog. That's all.
Harikeśa: So I have to accept all this on faith.
Prabhupāda: Not faith; it is practical. You are so foolish, you do not understand. Unless you are qualified, you cannot see anything. So you have to qualify. It is not faith. Disqualified. You are disqualified.
Devotee (1): Like sometimes you make the example you can't see the president unless you are qualified to see the president.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Devotee (1): Likewise, you can't see God unless you are qualified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. It is not faith; it is fact. Unless you are fit to see something, you cannot see.
Jñāna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're making comparison with the water coming from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa. The sweat, that's coming from water we took before. It's already existing.
Jñāna: We're not making water or making chemicals out of nothing. The living entity's body, that comes from stuff . . .
Brahmānanda: We drink water, then comes the sweat.
Jñāna: It's not produced out of nothing.
Prabhupāda: Not without drinking? No. That's not fact.
Brahmānanda: Actually, they say the body is made out of water.
Prabhupāda: "They say. They say." You don't drink water, and when you give me massage why do you perspire? You did not drink water. This is practical.
Brahmānanda: But formerly I had drunk water.
Prabhupāda: No, formerly, three hundred years, you had some water, therefore the water is coming out. This is all nonsense. Seven generation before, my great-grandfather ate some ghee, and still I have got the smell. (laughter) It is that argument. Huh? This kind of argument has no value. Water is . . . you can create water from your body. What is there? (to guest on walk) You are a doctor. What is your . . .? Eh? Medical men they are. No? Water is created. How the blood is created? He did not drink blood. This is nonsense argument. How we create blood? It is becoming. You do not know how it is, but you have got such potency that blood is being created. You even do not know how the blood is being done, but it is being. That is inconceivable energy. There are so many secretions, they are coming within the body.
So everything is there. By God's supreme energy they are being automatically. Svābhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (CC Madhya 13.65, purport). God has got multi-energies. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is the description. He hasn't got to do anything. Just like so many things are being manufactured within my body. I haven't got to directly work for it. So similarly, the God's gigantic . . . na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8). Nobody is found equal to Him or greater than Him. We are . . . He is God, and we are subordinate because we have many equals, but He has no equal. He is unlimited; we are limited. Parāsya śaktir vivdhaiva śrūyate. He has got multi-energies. The energies are working.
Just like here there are so many instruments within this box, but you just push one button and it is working. You just push one button; the whole thing is working. So similarly, the God has made this body so perfect that whatever is required, it is being manufactured. Nobody can explain. Can you explain how your hair is . . .? You shave today, and tomorrow again, how it is growing, can you explain? But it is coming out. The energy is there. Similarly, if in the small body, a sample of God, so many energies are there, automatically working, then, so far God is concerned, that parāsya śaktir, He has got unlimited number of energies and things are taking place automatically. This material world is also external body of Kṛṣṇa. Just like our body, external body, and the hair is coming out. Do you endeavor for it? Similarly, the trees, plants, they are coming out.
Jñāna: If I eat a lot I become fat. If I stop eating I become thin.
Prabhupāda: You stupid, you eat so much, but God is not stupid. He is conscious perfectly. He has nothing to eat, still He can grow. That is the difference between me and God. You don't require to eat even. There are many saintly persons, they do not eat. How they are working? Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī was not eating. He was . . . every alternate day he was, little butter, so much, that's all. That not daily; every alternate day. So actually we do not require to eat. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense—this is bodily necessities. But you are not this body. When you come to the spiritual platform there is no necessity of these four principles. So that is your mistake, that you are thinking, "God has got a body like me. He requires eating for nourishing it." That is your foolishness. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. His body is so made that He can perform any limb's work by another limb. Just like we can see with the eyes. As soon as close the eyes, we cannot see. But Kṛṣṇa can see by His ear. As soon as you pray to Kṛṣṇa, immediately He sees you, "Oh, here is My devotee," by hearing the sound of your prayer.
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that our body was made by water. Why should we . . . (indistinct) . . .? But why should we come back?
Prabhupāda: Because you have this material body, you have got so many necessities. And God has no material body; He has got spiritual body. He has no necessity. Apta kama. He is fully satisfied. He doesn't require to take anything.
Brahmānanda: He doesn't get hungry or thirsty.
Prabhupāda: Neither. Neither of these things, because He hasn't got material body. You have got this material body; therefore you have got all these defects.
Indian man (5): Sometimes it was seen that if people, they don't eat, then their body becomes very weak. Then the soul leaves the body after some time. People, when they don't eat, their body becomes very weak, so that then soul leaves the body. Practically it has been seen.
Brahmānanda: Weak? Weak? The body becomes weak when they don't eat?
Indian man (5): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that is all for the material body. Weakness or strength or dwindling or becoming old is ṣad-avikara. Ṣad-avikara means birth, then growth, then sustenance, then by-products, then dwindling, then finish. This ṣad-avikara, six kinds of changes, are meant for the material body, not for the spiritual.
Harikeśa: So everything is going on, and those things that are going on, and they happen to fit in with the whole scheme, they continue. If there is some strength they survive, and if not, they die off. So everything is happening by chance. But because . . .
Harikeśa: Yes, chance. But because . . . (laughter) But because . . .
Prabhupāda: Another stupidity. (laughter)
Harikeśa: But because some things happen to work, they continue.
Prabhupāda: Will the medical man will say that everything happening by chance?
Harikeśa: Well, that's because his body is all right. His body fits in with the scheme of things, so it can continue. But let's say the person doesn't eat, he can't get . . .
Prabhupāda: They know that you have violated these rules of health, therefore you are diseased. There is no chance.
Harikeśa: But he is fit to live, so he can live. But someone other than . . .
Prabhupāda: Nobody is fit. The doctors also become sick as soon as there is violation. The violation is the cause of sickness, so either he may be doctor or no doctor, that does not matter. If you violate, you'll be sick. That is nature's law. Nature's law.
Devotee (1): Speaking of chance, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it was mentioned in the scriptures that, in The Nectar of Devotion, that in order to be involved in devotional service and execute devotional service in this life, we had to have some devotional service last life. So therefore, were you here last life, too, with us to give us this devotional service?
Brahmānanda: He's asking that in The Nectar of Devotion it is stated that for one to engage in devotional service means that in his previous life he had some connection with devotional service. So he's . . .
Prabhupāda: So where is the chance? It is the cause and effect. If previous life you had some activities and the result is there, so where is chance?
Harikeśa: So that's survival of the fittest. Because he could take to devotional service, he is surviving on in devotional service . . .
Prabhupāda: Surviving . . . so he is surviving, but the cause and effect is going on.
Jñāna: The scientists are saying the evolution of the body is purely by chance.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore we call them stupid, rascals. There is no chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22), Kṛṣṇa says. Kāraṇam. There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Because you do not know how you are infecting . . . just like you become all of a sudden attacked with cholera. You are thinking that it is by chance. It is not chance. Eh? What this medical man will . . . "It is chance." No. You infected somewhere. You do not know. And because you are foolish, you are taking it as chance. There is no question of chance.
Harikeśa: But it was by chance I infected.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Not chance. Why did you go where there is cholera case? That is your foolishness. Why did you go there? When there is infectious disease a man is forbidden, not to go there. So you went there without any knowledge and you infected. Now you are suffering. That's all. There is no question of chance. That is foolishness. Chance means ignorance. The ignorant people, they do not know. They infect sinful activities, and they say "by chance." There is no question of chance. Kāranaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, Kṛṣṇa says. There is no chance.
Cyavana: If God's energy is so perfect, then how does this ignorance come upon the living entity?
Prabhupāda: That we have explained many times. You create your ignorance. Just like you cannot live without serving Kṛṣṇa, but you create: "Why not independently?" That is your ignorance. By law, by nature's law, you cannot live without being subordinate to Kṛṣṇa. But why you are thinking, "Why shall I be subordinate to Kṛṣṇa?" Kṛṣṇa is asking you, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). Why you are not doing that? Why you are not doing that? Kṛṣṇa is personally asking, "You do this. I shall save you." Why you are not doing this? So you violate the laws of Kṛṣṇa, you suffer. That's all.
Cyavana: But if that energy is perfect, how can it violate?
Prabhupāda: Then you do not know what is living being. Living being has got the, I mean to say, independence, little independence. He can obey; he can violate. In our Society there are so many. Somebody is strictly obeying, somebody is willfully, voluntary . . . not voluntarily; willfully violating. They must fall down.
Jñāna: If God is perfect, why didn't He make us perfect?
Prabhupāda: He is made perfect, but He is not . . . you are not stone. God is not stone. You are living being. The same thing you are repeatedly asking. You have got little independence because you are part and parcel of God. So by misusing your independence, if you violate the orders of God, then you suffer. You are perfect because you have got independence, but you misuse that perfectness. That is your fault. You perfect. You become imperfect by misusing.
Jñāna: The independence is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is perfect. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśo Invocation). Because you are part and parcel of God, you are perfect, but willfully you become imperfect. Again you willfully become perfect; then you become imperfect.
Jñāna: Where does that will come from?
Prabhupāda: Will is given to you. Living being means there is will—thinking, feeling and willing. Don't question if you do not know. Everything comes from God. What is the use of "Where will comes?" Janmādya asya yataḥ. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam . . . (BG 10.8). Everything is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got will; you have got will. Why do you ask? This is foolishness. Kṛṣṇa has got His independence; you have got independence. You are a small Kṛṣṇa. A particle of gold is also gold. Everything is there. All chemical composition is there. It has come from Kṛṣṇa. Why you are asking wherefrom it comes?
Jñāna: All living beings are independent, but some choose to serve and some choose to disbelieve. Is that choice . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is use of independence. Otherwise what is the meaning of independence? The meaning of independence is, "If I like, I can do. If I do not like, I do not do." That is independence. That means independence. If you are stereotyped, forced to do, that is not independence. Independence means if you like, you can do it, if not—you don't like—don't do it. That is independence. So misused independence means ignorance. He does not know that "If I infect this virus of this disease I'll suffer." But he does not know, ignorance. So he infects and he suffers.
Devotee (6): Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was noticing your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams the other day and Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So I would like to take my time this time and offer my obeisances for such perfected, exalted work from such an exalted personality. All glories to you.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) Thank you very much.
Devotee (6): I haven't seen anything so beautiful, so transcendental.
Prabhupāda: Try to understand. Make your life successful.
Devotee (6): I will with your mercy, with your grace. I need help.
Prabhupāda: That is my endeavor. I am trying to put things how people will understand and they become perfect. That is my endeavor, humble endeavor. That's all.
Jñāna: Thank you very much, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian lady (7): (Hindi) (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . say that if he remain forward even in the front of danger, that is his first credit.
Indian lady (7): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: That was a great service, recognized. (break)
Devotee (8): It's a type of poem.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, so this, like sword. The tree is just like sword, and the sinful man is pushed through that tree.
Jñāna: Prabhupāda, I've heard that even in hell the people think they are enjoying. Is that right?
Prabhupāda: Where you have heard? (laughter)
Jñāna: I thought that that was your own words.
Prabhupāda: Don't think like that.
Cyavana: Not to think, but to know.
Cyavana: That is our position. As soon as he says, "I think," he's disqualified. As soon as he's speculating.
Devotee (8): Prabhupāda? Some of the people I've met . . . like in the later volumes of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, some of the information is so much against what the living entities are experiencing and being educated in that I've noticed that some people have turned away from Kṛṣṇa who already had some attraction, when they hear these different topics, like the situation of the universe.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?
Brahmānanda: That because in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the knowledge there contradicts the mundane scientific knowledge, people who had some faith in Kṛṣṇa become discouraged and turn away from Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Let him go away. Don't care for him. Let all the fools go away. There is a Bengali proverb, "Instead of maintaining some bad cows, let the cowshed be vacant." We shall prefer the cowshed vacant, no cow, than keeping all bad cows who does not give any milk, create disturbance.
Devotee (8): In our temple . . .
Prabhupāda: We are giving chance, but we don't want bad cows. We haven't got to agree with their views. They must agree with our views, then they can live. Otherwise let them go away. This is position.
Indian man (9): Your Divine Grace, are we all equal to God?
Indian man (9): Are we all equal in sight of God?
Brahmānanda: Are we all equal in the eyes of God?
Prabhupāda: But if you become unequal, you must go away. No. His question was they are disturbed. So that means they are unequal. Why they should be disturbed?
Cyavana: Kṛṣṇa says: "All of them, as they surrender, I reward accordingly." So that means they are surrendering in different . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has not surrendered. He keeps himself separate from Kṛṣṇa, and he is . . . artificially he shows surrender. Surrender does not mean that you reserve something for you. That is not surrender. Surrender means without reservation. That is surrender.
Devotee (8): Devotional service must be unconditional, or else it will drive us away.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like a child is surrendered to the parents. The parents say, "Sit down here," he sits down. That's all. No argument. That is surrender.
Guest (10): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we speak of parts and parcels of God, does it mean that we were there with God before we came to this world?
Prabhupāda: You are part and parcel then? What is that?
Brahmānanda: If we are part and parcels of God, does it mean that we were with God before coming to the . . .
Prabhupāda: You are always with God, even your rebellious condition, you are with God. Just like a prisoner. A prisoner is always with the government, (laughter) but in one department he is kicked, and in one department he is patted. That's all. So if you prefer to be kicked, you remain in māyā. But you are always in connection with God.
Indian man (11): Like Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am in everything."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your this punishment condition is also God's creation, external energy. You cannot live for a second without God. But one who knows, he is blessed, and who does not know, he is condemned. But you know or not know, you are always with God. That is your position.
Devotee (12): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how best can we present the teachings of . . .
Prabhupāda: Just abide by the orders of God and His representative. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise not.
Harikeśa: This side, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is wanted.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Thank you. (offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end).