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751128 - Lecture SB 05.05.01 - Delhi

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

751128SB-DELHI - November 28, 1975 - 56:07 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Hmm. What is that? Plain water bring.

śri-ṛṣabha uvāca
nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke
kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye
tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ
śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam
(SB 5.5.1)

This is Fifth Chapter of the Fifth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (drinks water) Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the last contribution of Vyāsadeva. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam (SB 1.1.3). In the beginning, introduction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vyāsadeva giving the information that this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam. Nigama means Vedas. So he compared the Vedas as a tree where you can get many fruits. So this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is described as nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam. Kalpa-taru means desire tree. Desire tree, you can get any kind of fruit from that tree. In the material world there are many different types of trees, fruits and flowers, but you can get one type of fruit or one type of flower from a particular type of tree. But there is another tree; that is in the spiritual world. That is called desire tree. Whatever you want from that tree you can get. Kalpa-taru. The spiritual world, description of the spiritual world is there in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa (Bs. 5.29). There the trees are kalpa-vṛkṣa, or nigama-kalpa-taru. Kalpa-taru or kalpa-vṛkṣa, the same thing.

So Veda means knowledge. So from the Vedas you can get all kinds of knowledge, both material and spiritual. Therefore it is called Veda, knowledge. So in that tree of knowledge the ripened fruit is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is written by Vyāsadeva after writing four Vedas and the eighteen Purāṇas, the 108 Upaniṣads, then Vedānta-sūtra and Mahābhārata, in which Bhagavad-gītā is set up. So after compiling all these Vedic literatures Vyāsadeva was not satisfied. Then his spiritual master advised him to describe the activities of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Bhagavāta. Bhagavān.

The word bhagavāta and . . . Bhāgavata is also in relationship with Bhagavāta or Bhagavān. So every śloka of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is full of spiritual information. If we take advantage of this great Vedic literature, then we become fully aware of Bhagavān and the devotees of Bhagavān. Therefore it is named Bhāgavatam. But this Bhāgavatam has to be studied from the very beginning and take the lessons from live bhāgavata. There are two kinds of Bhāgavatam—one, this grantha bhāgavatam, and the other is a person bhāgavatam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu advised that if you want to understand Bhāgavatam, then you must approach a person whose life is bhāgavatam. He said, bhāgavata para-giya bhāgavata sthane that, "If we learn, listen, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the person bhāgavatam, then it is very easy to understand the spiritual knowledge given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."

So here Ṛṣabhadeva . . . Ṛṣabhadeva was the father of Mahārāja Bharata, under whose name this land is called Bhārata-varsa. Bhārata-varṣa is derived from the name of Mahārāja Bharata. So his father, Ṛṣabhadeva, He is accepted as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. So He is giving instruction to His sons before retiring. In our Vedic culture there is compulsory retirement. There is compulsory retirement. That is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama-dharma. What is going on . . . as we are going on in the name of Hindus, but Hindu is not mentioned in the Vedic literature. In the Vedic literature the principles or the institute followed by the inhabitants of Bhārata-varṣa is called varṇāśrama-dharma. That is real occupation.

puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān
viṣṇur ārādhyate puṁsam
nānyat tat-toṣa-kāraṇam
(CC Madhya 8.58)

Whole Vedic civilization means realize God. That is Vedic civilization. Viṣṇur ārādhyate. We are part and parcel of Viṣṇu, or the Supreme Lord. As it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Jīva-bhūtaḥ, these living entities, not only human being but everyone, sarva yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4), in every form of life, the living entities are covered with the material dress. So Bhāgavata-dharma, or spiritual life, can be understood when one has understood his identification, what he is. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the first lesson given by Kṛṣṇa to Arjuna is to bring him to the spiritual platform. When Arjuna was lamenting on the body of his relatives on the other side, he was too much affected in the bodily conception of life: "How I shall fight with the other side? They are all my brothers, nephews, my teacher, my grandfather, and who has fought with such enemies in the history?" Everyone fights. There is fighting, but not fighting with own men, even at the present moment, although there is sometimes civil war.

So Arjuna was too much affected by the bodily conception of life. That is the disease of this material world. We are thinking in terms of this body, but the śāstra says that:

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke
svā-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

The bodily conception of life is animal life. If I think that, "I am this body. I am Indian," and you think that you are this body, you are American or Englishman—in so many ways we are designated—so, so long we think in these terms of knowledge, that "I am this body. . ." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke. This is a bag of three elements: kapha, pitta, vayū. Or if we don't understand kapha, pitta, vāyu, we can understand that this body is made of flesh, bone, mucus. What you will find if we dissect this body? You'll find flesh, blood, bone, urine, stool, so many things, these material things. But if we think that, "I am this body, a composition of blood, flesh, bone and urine and stool," is that very good intelligence? No. Therefore śāstra says: "Anyone who is thinking this body, combination of these elements"—combined together it is called tri-dhātuke-sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13)—"such person is no better than the cows and the asses." Because I am not combination of this blood, bone, flesh and urine and stool. I am not this combination. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul. This is really realization, knowledge.

So unless one comes to that platform, that "I am beyond this blood, flesh, bone, urine, stool . . ." Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ (BG 7.5). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā that, "These material elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence, ego—these are eight separated energy of the Supreme Lord." And the Lord says, apareyam: "These elements are inferior energy." Itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parāḥ: "Beyond this, you try to understand, there is another nature, prakṛti." What is that another nature? Jīva-bhūto mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5): "That is jīva-bhūtaḥ." So mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7): "These living entities," Kṛṣṇa said: "They are My part and parcel." So we are now covered with these material energies, although I am spiritual energy. This is our position. So this human form of life is a chance to understand that, "I am not this body, I am spiritual energy," ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This chance is given to the human form of life, not to the cats and dogs.

So the same principle is explained throughout all the Vedic literature in different way just to understand one's identity, that he is not this matter; he is spirit soul. And when he understands, then the next stage will be, "Then what is my duty?" Because at the present moment we are acting on the bodily concept of life, how this body shall be kept in comfort, how the bodily relationship—wife, children, family, community, society, nation—they are all expanded bodily concept of life. So in any conception of this material world if we live, then you are living like cats and dogs. You are not living as human being. Otherwise where is the difference? When we see on the street two dogs are fighting, one dog is thinking, "This neighborhood is my jurisdiction, and why you have come from other jurisdiction in this neighborhood?" They are fighting, so the bodily concept of life. Or he is thinking, "This neighborhood belongs to me. Why you have come from other neighborhood here?" I say sometimes to my student, "This is immigration department. One dog is barking on other dog, 'Why you have come here?' " It is dog conception of life.

The spiritual conception of life is that everything belongs to God. That is the fact. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God—the land, water, sky. It is said, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ. This is expansion of the energy of God. So what is the use, claiming God's property as my property? That is mistaken. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape. This body is also God's property. Everything God's property, because Kṛṣṇa says, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). This microphone, what it is? It is made of some earthly metal, wood, but the material belongs to God. I may have taken advantage of taking this material and manufactured something; that does not mean it is mine. If a carpenter makes a good furniture, and the wood is supplied by somebody else and the carpenter is paid his wages, when the nice furniture is made, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the person who has supplied the ingredients? It is very commonsense question.

So actually nothing belongs to us. We also do not belong independently. We are not independent. Kṛṣṇa says, jīva-bhūtaḥ, or mamaivāṁśo (BG 15.7). We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so the finger has no separate existence. If this finger is cut off from my hand and it has a separate existence, it will fall down on the street, and it has no value. Others are trampling down; still nobody cares for it, although it is the same finger but cut off from this body. But so long this small finger is attached to this body it has value. If there is some disease or pain, I can spend thousands of dollars for curing it. And when it is cut off from my body it has no value. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, when we are forgetful or cut off . . . it cannot be cut off, but still, when we forget God, then we have no value. The same example: When I ask my finger to come here and give me some itching sensation, then the finger is in normal condition. And if the finger cannot give me any service, that is useless. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our business is to give service to God. That is our normal condition. And if we do not give service to the Lord—if we keep separately—then we have no value.

This point is stressed here, that nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Ṛṣabhādeva is advising to His sons, "My dear sons, this body specially," nāyaṁ deha nṛloke, "in the human society, it is not to be spoiled." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ . . . kaṣṭān kāmān: "It is not to be spoiled engaging it uselessly, very hard labor for satisfaction of the senses." Because this kind of business is there, viḍ-bhujām. Viḍ-bhujām means the stool-eater, hogs. The hogs are stool-eater, and they are working very hard day and night, and the business is kaṣṭān kāmān, to satisfy the senses, these two business: where to find out source of income, and eat anything without any discrimination. Just like the hog has no discrimination. It is prepared to eat even stool. So this kind of life, to work very hard and get foodstuff without any discrimination and then satisfy the senses without any discrimination of sex . . . a hog, you will find, they have no discrimination of sex—mother, sister or anyone. You will find. These are the natural instruction. So therefore, the example is given here, "My dear sons, don't live like hogs, toiling whole day and night and eating stool, and without any sex discrimination you go on satisfying your senses." This is the first attack to the human civilization, that simply work very, very hard and then satisfy your senses and you take it as civilization. It is not civilization. If we think over these two lines, then we can find out that our modern civilization . . .

It was formerly also the same, but not so extensively. At the present moment, in this age of Kali, the hog civilization is spread very widely. Therefore this instruction is very important. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. Human life means very peaceful life, without any trouble. That is Vedic civilization. These books written by Vyāsadeva, he was writing these books, such exalted knowledge, in Haridwar, in a secluded place, very peacefully situated. And that knowledge was taken by the kṣatriyas, and they were distributing. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Vedic knowledge was first of all taken up by the kṣatriyas. Brāhmins, they used to cultivate knowledge and they used to advise the kṣatriyas, rulers, and they took it and they distributed to the general mass of people for the elevation of the spiritual platform. This is civilization. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). This is creation of God, cātur-varṇyaṁ: brāhmin, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. This is called varṇa, and as spiritual cultivation, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So our civilization, Vedic civilization, means varṇāśrama-dharma, following the four principles of varṇas and four principles of āśrama. The ultimate goal is God realization. That is the human civilization. If there is no God realization, simply working hard day and night for sense gratification, it is accepted as hog civilization, dog civilization. That is stated here: nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye.

Then, if we give up this kind of civilization, then what is to be done? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet. The next engagement is tapasya, tapo. Tapasya means austerity, penances, voluntarily acceptance of something, some means of activity which may not be very palatable. But still, we have to do that. Just like a patient, if he is forbidden by the physician not to take a certain type of foodstuff, it may be pain . . . just like typhoid fever. The doctor advises, "Don't take any solid food." But if we . . . I am accustomed to take paraṭha. So in typhoid to take paraṭha means death. Similarly, we have to follow the śāstric injunction. If we really want to come out this material bondage . . . material bondage means this body. Our real problem is this body. That we do not know. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. This will come that, "We have now become mad after sense gratification." Pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means prakṛṣṭa-rūpena mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad. And when this affix is there, prefix is there, that pra, pra means prakṛṣṭa-rūpena, sufficiently mad. So in this material world we have become sufficiently mad—not only mad, but sufficiently mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And we are engaged in activities which are forbidden. Forbidden. Just like we are drinking. This is forbidden. We are eating meat. This is forbidden. We are having illicit sex. This is forbidden. We are having gambling. This is forbidden. This is called vikarma. But because we have become mad, we are . . . whole human civilization is meant for these four things: illicit sex, meat-eating and intoxication and gambling.

So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. So we have become mad and we are engaged in these forbidden works. If we want to get out of these clutches of material bondage, then we must stop these forbidden activities, mad, the activities of a madman. So if you go on like that, then we shall have to accept another material body. The problem is that we are suffering threefold miseries, every one of us. Maybe the degree different, but under being intoxicated, we do not take the sufferings as sufferings. That is another madness. But the sufferings are there. That is being pointed out by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). You may be very perfect by arranging your material civilization to enjoy life, but you will not be allowed to live. That we do not see. There is no insurance. I am making very nice arrangement for my future enjoyment, having good bank balance, nice skyscraper building and other things, but where is the guarantee that you shall live and enjoy? That we do not see. Therefore we are madman. If you are arranging something utopian for happiness, and if you understand that, "I shall die tomorrow," then immediately my enthusiasm will decline, "Now, who is going to take so much trouble? I am going to die tomorrow."

So tomorrow not; say hundred years after, you will have to die. You cannot escape this. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. So therefore Kṛṣṇa says that, "You are very scientifically advanced. There is no doubt about it. But what about your death? Why you shall accept death? You are eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. "You do not die after the destruction of this body." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). These informations are there, but you are not considering that. We are going on to establish ourself very tightly in this material world, but Kṛṣṇa says that you will not be allowed to live. These things are to be considered. Therefore they have been described as pramattaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). They are acting sinfully or they are committing so many sinful activities, and they are becoming entangled for another's body, who is the resultant action of our sinful activities.

Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says that na sādhu manye: "This is not good that you are wasting your time simply for sense gratification and you do not know that you have got a next life."

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

You are living entity, you are not these flesh and bones. You are spirit soul and you are within this body. You are now entrapped with this material body, and so long you will act irresponsibly, you will get another material . . . tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. You will get another body, and that body is not guaranteed. There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Although the spirit soul is there, but this particular type of body, the hog's body or the man's body or the demigod's body . . . there are so many. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati (Padma Purāṇa). There are 900,000 forms of body within the body. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And there are trees, plants, 2,000,000 forms of body. So we have already gone through all this body, and we have got this human form of body after many, many millions of years by evolutionary process. Therefore Ṛṣabhādeva says, ayam deha: this body, don't think it is ordinarily received. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke: "In the human society you should not waste it like the hogs and dogs simply for sense gratification." This is the Bhāgavata instruction. You should soberly use it. So how soberly used? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṛn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
(BG 9.25)

You can utilize this body properly for higher standard of life. You can go to the higher planetary system. The higher planetary system begins from the sun. That is another subject matter. But so far we get information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there sun, then moon, according to Bhāgavatam. And I think . . . we were talking about these things, that whether the moon is the first planet or the sun is the first planet. So far we understand from Vedic literature, the moon is the second planet. The sun is the first planet. If we consider like that, then moon is beyond the sun planet. The estimation is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 1,600,000 miles above the sun the moon is situated. Now, if we take consideration of the sun planet situated 93,000,000 miles from earth, then add 1,600,000 miles again, it comes to 15,000,000's . . . 95,000,000's miles away from the earthly planet. And how you can reach there in four days, 95,000,000 miles away? If we apply our common sense, then it appears they have never gone to the moon planet. It is all bogus propaganda. It is not possible.

So śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: our knowledge should be through the śāstra. That is practical. And our process of knowledge is this: we get knowledge from śāstra, like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedic knowledge. We do not claim to be very big scientists. That is not possible. But we get knowledge from the best scientific man, or person, the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Asita, Devala, later on the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya. Our process of knowledge is not any speculation: "It may be," "Perhaps." No. We don't accept this knowledge. "It may be," "Perhaps"—these are all foolishness. That means one who has no perfect knowledge, he will say: "It may be," "Perhaps." One who has definite knowledge, why he will say, "It may be"? It must be. That is knowledge. Just like we get knowledge from the śāstra, jalajā nava-lakṣāni: "There are nine hundred (thousand) species or forms of life in the water." So we have not gone into the water, but we get from the authorities, Padma Purāṇa, and we accept it. So our process of knowledge . . . you may say that "You have not practically experimented," but what you have experimented? You also hear from others. You believe that they have gone to moon planet. You have not gone. You have heard from somebody in the newspaper, that's all. That is your authority. So if you can believe in the newspaper, then I cannot believe in the śāstras?

So it is a different source of knowledge, but one takes one source, another takes another source. Our source of knowledge is Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's disciples. That is our . . . evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This is the source of knowledge, avaroha-panthā, knowledge coming from higher authorities. Just like Ṛṣabhadeva is giving knowledge to His sons. That is natural. Sons take advice from the father. That is the beginning of knowledge. If a little child asks the father, "My dear father, what is this machine?" the father says: "My dear child, this is called microphone," so when the child says, after hearing from the father, that "It is microphone," that is perfect knowledge. The child may be a innocent child. He does not know. He is not a scientist. But when, after hearing from the authority, father, if he says: "It is microphone," that statement is correct. There is no mistake. Similarly, we may be fools and rascals. That's all right. But when we receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, who says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin, yat kaumāra yauvana, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ . . . (BG 2.13).

When Kṛṣṇa says that within this body there is the living soul, and the living soul is transmigrating . . . tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. As we are getting different bodies in this life also, from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to old body, then what is after old body? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: you get another body. But we do not know what kind of body we are getting. Where is that science? Where is that education that there is dehāntara-prāptiḥ, there is transmigration of the soul, and there are so many different types of body? Suppose in this body I am very comfortably situated, I am a very big man, or very great minister, politician, everything is all right—but in the next life, if I am going to get the body of a dog, who can check it? Nature's law will go on. At that time, as minister or big man, if you dictate that "Give me a body like this," oh, that will not be heard. You will get a type of body according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantor deha upapatti (SB 3.31.1). According to your karma, you will get a type of body. This is nature's law.

Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmani sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are completely under the grip of nature's law. We cannot change it. If we challenge that, "There is no death," no, death will come. That is nature's law. And if you want to stop death, then that is another process. That is described here, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet (SB 5.5.1): You have to accept this process of austerity by which you will purify your existence. Then you will get deathless life, eternal. Yat gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama. Tyakvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya. This is the science. This Bhāgavata literature, this Vedic literature, is giving you information how you can revive your original, eternal life. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is the business of human life, not to become mad like hogs and dogs and simply work very hard—"Where is stool?"—and eat it and get some strength, and then enjoy senses. This is not life. This is not civilization.

So Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction is tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet (SB 5.5.1). Why it is necessary to purify my existence? Śuddhyed yasmād brahma-saukhyaṁ tu anantam. You are seeking after happiness, but your happiness is being checked. You have made very good arrangement for enjoying life, happiness, but it is being checked. You have to die. You make all nice arrangement, but you have to die. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Aham. Kṛṣṇa says that "Those persons who do not want Me, or persons who do not like to understand God, they will see God, Me." When? "At the time of death," as Hiraṇyakaśipu saw. He challenged always God. His son was devotee, and that was the misunderstanding between the father and the son . . . (break) This father said that, "God is enemy. Viṣṇu is my enemy. You do not take the name of Viṣṇu." And the child, boy, will take. That is the cause of enmity. So at the end he saw Hiraṇyakaśipu, Hiraṇyakaṣipu saw Nṛsiṁha-deva. Immediately finished everything.

So that is the case of everyone, that one has to meet death. And at the time of death, whatever arrangement he has made for so-called happiness will be taken away. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham. Then he will be offered another body. It may be a human body or he may be a dog's body or hog's body, and we have to accept it.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). The laws of nature is working, and as he is infecting a particular type of the modes of material nature, he is preparing his next body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. So in the human form of life if we do not purify our existence, if we do not realize God, if we do not understand what is my relationship with God, then we are simply wasting time living like cats and dogs. These things should be stopped. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for stopping this rascal civilization and giving it life.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Yes?

Guest (1): Your good sir, if you describe the following of Bharata, Bhārata-varṣa. I'd like to be enlightened on that, how the Bhārata-varṣa is derived. I have conception that it has been tried named after . . . (indistinct) . . . son.

Prabhupāda: Bharata, Bharata Mahārāja, yes.

Guest (1): Your good sir, you have very named . . . I couldn't get it. I feel, personally for myself, that the Bharata was the new vision of the self as the fulfiller, and from that, it has been derived.

Prabhupāda: There are two, three Bharatas. So Śakuntalā's son was Bharata, and Rāmacandra's brother was Bharata, and the Ṛṣabhadeva's son was Bharata. But from the śāstric information we understand this Bhārata-varṣa is meant from the name, of Ṛṣabhadeva's son Bharata.

Guest (1): Name of?

Prabhupāda: Bharata.

Guest (1): And you say it has been derived from the twelfth son, Bharata.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He had one hundred sons. The eldest son's name was Bharata.

Guest (1): And what do you think about the factor in reincarnation? Do you think it has got any significance?

Prabhupāda: I do not think anything. I have already explained. We do not think, "Perhaps," "Maybe."

Guest (1): Do you think reincarnation is there . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the śāstra.

Guest (1): It is in the śāstra. What is your opinion about it?

Prabhupāda: I have no opinion. I take śāstra as it is.

Guest (1): After all, you are writing . . . (break)

Guest (2): (indistinct) . . . my general difficulty, that the soul is not impossible to turn about, but . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: They train children as vyabhicāri, so how you can expect good civilization? So everything is there. It is very difficult, undoubtedly, but if you train from the very beginning of life . . . that is stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja:

kaumāra ācaret prājño
dharmān bhāgavatān iha
durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma
tad apy adhruvam arthadam
(SB 7.6.1)

He says . . . he was child, five years old. He was . . . his other . . . in tiffin hours the other children of the demons, they were playing, and Prahlāda Mahārāja was asking to sit down and hear him. He was preaching, "My dear friends," kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān, "don't spoil your life by playing. Now this is the period of understanding bhāgavata-dharma." Bhāgavata-dharma means to understand God and our relationship with God and act accordingly. That is called bhāgavata-dharma. So kaumāra ācaret prajñā dharmān bhāgavatān. If you want . . . we might have done mistakes in our life, but if we train our children in the brahmacārī system and gradually they understand the bhāgavata-dharma, at least their life becomes perfect. And in the Bhāgavata it is ordered that . . . you will find all this in the Ṛṣabhadeva's instruction. Pitā na sa syāt jananī na sa syāt sva-jano na sa syā . . . guror na sa syāt (SB 5.5.18): "One should not become guru, one should not become kinsmen, one should not become father, one should not become mother," na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum, "if one cannot give lesson to the children how to avoid death." This is the duty of the guardians, of the government, how to avoid death. Where is that education? So that is the defect of the modern education. There is no training. So, gardulika pravāha. It is going on, very risky civilization.

Guest (2): Swāmījī, I was asking point in a different way, that we are so helpless. We are born as human being with inherent weaknesses and shortcomings, like kāma, krodha, moha, lobha . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I know. But you can rectify it provided you like. But if you don't like to rectify yourself, how it can be done? If you are thinking that you have got so many defects, you rectify your defects, just like these European, American boys. They were all illicit sex–hunters and intoxicators and meat-eaters. That is their daily affair. How they have given up? They have decided that "We shall rectify ourself." You rectify yourself and you will be able to do. Are you prepared to rectify yourself?

Guest (2): That's why nature has given us to . . . why nature . . .

Prabhupāda: Nature has made you a dog. Why should you remain a dog? You should become a human being. That is your duty.

Guest (3): My question: Do you think your quality to change . . . a person, if that soul becomes fate or lift . . .

Prabhupāda: No, fate can be changed. I understand. These questions are generally put. Fate can be changed.

Guest (3): By name.

Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). Others cannot change their fate, but only the devotees can change. How? Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says, "I shall give you protection from all the resultant action of your sinful life." That is fate changed. If you don't surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then you have to suffer or enjoy the actions of your fruitive activities. But when you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, He takes charge of squaring up all your sinful activities and their reaction. That is . . . so you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then your fate is changed. Otherwise it is not possible.

Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, on behalf of the residents of the Jor Bhag Colony, I thank you most sincerely for coming here, taking the trouble of coming here and giving this learned discourse. In the inscrutable past and from the holy ages, this land of ours has thrown up great masters who have drunk deeply at the inexhaustible spiritual knowledge handed over to us gener . . . (break) (end)