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751210 - Morning Walk - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

751210MW-VRNDAVAN - December 10, 1975 - 35:17 Minutes

Prabhupāda: The rascals should not do that. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, nāmāśraya kari thākaha āpana kārye. You do your work, but take shelter of hari-nama. That is wanted.

Devotee (1): So simple.

Prabhupāda: So simple, yes. (Bengali) Nāmāśraya kari thākaha āpana karye. "Go on with your duty, prescribed duty, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." (break)

Akṣayānanda: I was recently told by one devotee that the ācārya does not have to be a pure devotee.

Prabhupāda: What?

Akṣayānanda: That the ācārya does not have to be a pure devotee.

Prabhupāda: Who is that rascal?

Akṣayānanda: Well, he said it, who said it.

Prabhupāda: Who said? Who is that rascal? The ācārya does not require to be a pure devotee?

Akṣayānanda: He said it. Nitāi said it. He said it in this context: He said that Lord Brahmā is the ācārya in the Brahma-sampradāya, but yet he is sometimes afflicted by passion. So therefore he is saying that it appears that the ācārya does not have to be a pure devotee. So it does not seem right.

Prabhupāda: So who is that rascal? I want to know who has said.

Akṣayānanda: Nitāi. Nitāi dāsa.

Harikeśa: Nitāi said that? (laughs in disbelief)

Prabhupāda: Who is Nitāi dāsa?

Harikeśa: Our Nitāi.

Akṣayānanda: Nitāi.

Prabhupāda: Oh, our Nitāi? Oh.

Akṣayānanda: He said he couldn't understand it, but he thought . . . he said that he thought . . .

Prabhupāda: He manufactured his idea. Therefore he's a rascal. Therefore he's a rascal. Nitāi has become an authority?

Akṣayānanda: No, actually he said that he thought . . .

Prabhupāda: He thought something rascaldom, and he is expressing that. Therefore he is more rascal. These things are going on. As soon as he reads some books, he becomes an ācārya, whatever rascal he may be.

Akṣayānanda: So there's no doubt that Lord Brahmā is a pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: Whatever he may be, he is ācārya. So you . . . then Kṛṣṇa is also passionate. Kṛṣṇa is also passionate. Kṛṣṇa danced with so many gopīs; therefore He is passionate. They . . . these things are to be seen in this way that, "Such exalted person, he sometimes become passionate, so how much we shall be careful." This is the instruction. Then we petty things, petty persons, how much we shall be careful. It is not that, "Ācārya has become passionate, therefore I shall become passionate. I am strict followers of ācārya." These rascals say.

Hari-śauri: So Lord Brahma's being attracted to his daughter, that is just as an example. . .

Prabhupāda: So why you discuss this? Therefore you shall be attracted with your daughter, mother? Do you think so, like that?

Hari-śauri: No.

Indian man: In this world this is our disease. This is our disease.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That disease . . . Brahmā . . . Lord Śiva also, he was attracted to the Mohinī. So they are īśvara. They are controllers. So the instruction is that even such personalities may be sexually attracted, so how much we shall remain careful. This is the instruction. (break) . . . like the other rascal. Who was saying that "Kṛṣṇa was killed by a hunter; therefore hunter is greater than Kṛṣṇa"?

Indian man: Rajagopalacharya. Rajagopalacharya, he has written in Mahābhārata that Kṛṣṇa was killed by a hunter.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the hunter is . . .

Indian man: "Kṛṣṇa Passes Away," the heading of his chapter.

Harikeśa: You said about a couple of years ago that "What ordinary man would be killed if he was shot in the arrow by a heel," I mean, "shot in the heel by an arrow?" No ordinary man dies that way.

Prabhupāda: So who reads Rajagopalacharya's Mahābhārata? (laughter) They are rotting at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan.

Akṣayānanda: They're rotting in the bookshelves, and the insects are eating.

Indian man: But in Somanath . . . I went last year there when I was in Gujarat. The people, they don't believe, the people of Somanath, that He was killed by . . . like that. So these philosophers, simply for their name, they put some kind of theories so that people can, "Oh!" They can understand all this nonsense. (break)

Prabhupāda: These pastimes of Kṛṣṇa is to make the fools more fool. One who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man, Kṛṣṇa is playing this part to show them, "Yes, see. I am dying, this. You see."

Indian man: What He said? Avajānanti mā mūḍhāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). He'll remain mūḍha janmani janmani. This is this pastime. Life after life, he shall remain a fool, rascal. So this Rajagopalacharya and company, they'll remain in darkness life after life. For them this pastime is there. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritah (BG 9.11): "The rascals, they think of Me as ordinary human being." To such rascals, He is playing like: "Yes, you see I am ordinary human being. Just see. I am dying." This is . . . to keep them life after life in darkness. If it is so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa, that He is dying—"Ācchā. I have read it. I have seen. He has died"—then what is the use of saying, manuṣyāṇā sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3)? Out of many millions of persons one can understand Kṛṣṇa. Then what is the use of saying this? If it is so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa, what He is doing, what for He is doing, then everyone could understand Kṛṣṇa. Then what is the use of saying manuṣyāṇā sahasreṣu? This requires intelligence.

Indian man: Bahūnām janmanām.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34): "One who knows, go and understand from them, from the guru." Don't make your interpretation, rascal. You shall remain always a rascal. Then what is the use of all these verses? If it is so easy to understand Kṛṣṇa, then why Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevaya: "Then you will understand. Go to the right person who has seen."

Indian devotee: But the rascal philosophers, they have put in their book that you don't need to go to a spiritual master. Like one lady, she is staying in our temple now. She is a Life Member from, I think from Kanpur. So I was discussing with her yesterday. She said that "Your devotees, they are forcing me," that she should accept Śrīla Prabhupāda as spiritual master. She said, "No. I know Kṛṣṇa. I am reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." And she told me that she has read in the book that one not need to go to spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: But what she is? Why she is staying here? Huh? You have asked them to go? No?

Akṣayānanda: This is the first I have heard of it.

Indian devotee: I am going to tell her to go if she will not . . . she told me . . .

Akṣayānanda: I never heard this before.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No. Is she is staying there as a paying guest or what?

Indian devotee: No, she want . . . she paid us eleven hundred rupees in Kanpur and, I don't know . . . the devotees, they promised her she can come and she can stay in our temple, but they never told her the four regulative principle and to accept the guru.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Akṣayānanda: No, that is not true.

Indian devotee: So she wants the money back.

Prabhupāda: So give. Give her back.

Akṣayānanda: She can have it back. That's no problem.

Indian devotee: So she should go.

Prabhupāda: Give her back. So why don't you give, and immediately?

Akṣayānanda: Yes, I will give her. She never asked me. I didn't know this.

Indian devotee: She asked to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, I think. So we will arrange. She should go, you know. She made a great confusion yesterday.

Akṣayānanda: That's all right. Let her have.

Prabhupāda: Let her return the receipt or give a receipt, and let her go away. Nobody can stay more than three days.

Indian devotee: Yes. We will do that.

Akṣayānanda: That we are doing.

Prabhupāda: She can come, but not more than three days in a month. (break)

Harikeśa: . . . rascals will use any excuse to reject all of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That is atheism or demonism. (break)

Harikeśa: Chinmayananda, when he lectures, he only lectures on the verses that are important. He says all the other ones, they're not really important. He picks out the ones that count.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you cut his head and say that, "It is not important. You are talking nonsense. Cut your head." (laughter)

Indian man: He don't give any commentary on verses, even important commentary. He speak all nonsense.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore you say, "This head is not required. You are talking nonsense," and cut his head.

Akṣayānanda: No one knows what he's talking about anyway.

Harikeśa: Especially him.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. No one can say. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . become a problem for all these rascals, that we are presenting Bhagavad-gīta as it is. That they are feeling, that "If this movement goes on, then we are all finished."

Devotee (2): Out of work.

Akṣayānanda: Their profession is at stake.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Yes.

Devotee (2): One Māyāvādī sannyāsī, he wrote a book, Be Your Own Guru, and he said you can. . .

Prabhupāda: So why do you write book?

Devotee (2): Yes, he is being guru. He is teaching them to do without a guru.

Prabhupāda: Let everyone become his guru. Why you write books?

Indian devotee: . . . one book that one should not write a book without the permission of a spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll find in today's tape that Prahlāda Mahārāja recommending that "Spiritual life begins by guru-śuśruṣaḥ, by serving guru." (break) . . . Gosvāmi said, ādau gurvāśrayam: "The first beginning is to take shelter of the bona fide spiritual master." Sad-dharma-pracchāt: "Then inquire from him about the spiritual path." Sādhu-mārgānugamanam: "Follow the previous ācāryas." These are the steps. Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'ham śādhi mām: "Now I become Your disciple. Teach me." And these rascals are more than Arjuna—"There is no need of guru." Huh? He says, śiṣyas te 'ham (BG 2.7). Why? He was already friend. Why he should submit himself as disciple? That is the beginning of spiritual life.

Indian devotee: Somebody put a question to Bhagavan Rajneesh that, "You claim that you are God. Can you show us your universal form?" He said, "Well, I can show you. First you come like an Arjuna. First you become Arjuna. Then I can show you a universal form."

Prabhupāda: So he admits that much.

Akṣayānanda: That he cannot.

Indian devotee: No, he admits that he can, but he has put. . .

Prabhupāda: "So that's all right. Have you shown anyone your universal form amongst so many your disciples? Have you shown?" The next question should be like that.

Indian devotee: He never asked. I was hearing tape in one Life Member's house.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, if . . . you learn that "Have you shown ever your universal form to any one of your disciples?"

Indian devotee: There was not such intelligent person to ask this.

Prabhupāda: That is the . . . say.

Indian devotee: So we have to ask that. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: If he says, "No, none of my students are efficient," "Then why you are preaching? If you cannot make any one of your students as efficient, then why you are preaching, wasting your time?" No, no, these rascal, they, their face should not be seen even. They are so fallen.

Indian devotee: But now they all afraid from your stick.

Prabhupāda: Stick?

Indian devotee: Prabhupāda, they all thought many times that "Prabhupāda, he criticize us." You know, they say. We said, "Yes, you are made to be criticized."

Devotee (3): Your stick is Bhagavad-gīta As It Is.

Prabhupāda: They say? They say?

Indian devotee: Oh, yes. In Mauritius there are many cults. So they invited us. I went to two, three. So they asked me that "We are coming many temple. You people, why not you come?" I said, "Well, whenever you invite us, we are ready to come, but you accept our philosophy." So they said, "How we can accept your philosophy? Prabhupāda, he, wherever, he say that all the other are Māyāvādī. All other are rascal." (laughter) "Well, Kṛṣṇa has said that. Prabhupāda is not doing that. Kṛṣṇa said who don't accept Him, he is mūḍha; he is rascal. So Prabhupāda is giving as it is, whatever Kṛṣṇa has said." Oh, they were . . .

Prabhupāda: No . . . (break) Kṛṣṇa said: "The rascals do not surrender to Me." So as soon as we see somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we call him rascal. So what is the wrong there?

Indian devotee: It is not wrong.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So we find out rascals if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. So what is our fault? Kṛṣṇa says this is the test to find out who is a rascal. And who is rascal? Who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. So if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you are a rascal. We have to see through the śāstra characteristic of a rascal, that he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. We may be fool, but we take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And from the lesson we understand you are rascal number one. That's all.

Indian devotee: Tilaka's(?) wife, she told me . . . she was very upset, you know. One day she, when she came to see you and that one rascal yogī was there, and he said that in the Vedas everything is mentioned that we can drink, and woman and the man have equal right. Then you answered her—and she was also saying the same thing—and you answered her, "Okay, if woman and the man have equal right, then why not your husband begot the children . . ." No, "Why not you begot the children in the womb of your husband?" And she was very upset, you know. She said, "Prabhupāda sometimes say the things like that which are unreasonable, you know."

Prabhupāda: It may require . . . no, I said that "If you are equal rights, then make some arrangement: sometimes you become pregnant; sometimes he becomes pregnant. Why there is not right, equal right?"

Indian man: She was telling me when . . . she . . . I said that, "Prabhupāda sometimes says these things that we feel all ashamed, you know, because . . ."

Devotee (2): The medicine is not always palatable for these people.

Prabhupāda: But in speaking spiritual understanding we cannot make any compromise. What to speak of in Mauritius; in Chicago I told. There was great agitation in papers.

Harikeśa: In the TV, on television.

Indian man: Same thing?

Devotee (2): In France also.

Prabhupāda: They were very upset. And when I was coming, I think, in Chicago, in the aeroplane, one of the host girl, she was seeing . . . (makes some gesture) (laughter) I asked her to supply one 7-Up. And, "I have no key." She was so angry. But all the captains and others, they gathered around me. (laughter)

Harikeśa: I think that was the same stewardess who came in the back and asked us, "Why the Swāmījī doesn't like women?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say that I don't like women, but I cannot say that equal rights. How can I say? First of all show that you equal rights—your husband becomes sometimes pregnant and then you become pregnant, alternately.

Akṣayānanda: Yeah, that doesn't mean you don't like them.

Prabhupāda: No, it is truth. I am speaking the truth, that "If you have equal right, then let your husband become pregnant. Make some arrangement."

Harikeśa: Viśākhā was preaching to her. She said that "Actually, we are less intelligent." (laughter) That started a big scandal . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) They are in equal right, then . . . nowadays, of course, they are thinking like that, that man should remain independent, and they'll have homosex, and the woman also independent, and they will make some . . . this is most immoral things.

Indian man: If only people think that they have equal right . . .

Prabhupāda: Where is equal right? Even in Russia there is no equal rights. They have created some of them are managers and some of them are workers. Why? If equal rights, then everyone should be manager.

Harikeśa: Well, in America they have women senators now.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Women senators. Women are in charge of companies sometimes.

Indian man: No, in India there are two women, they are high commissioners of India to the foreign countries.

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible. That requires education. That is another . . . by nature the woman's body is different from man's.

Indian man: Womans are subordinate.

Prabhupāda: Not subordinate actually. The occupations are different. It does not mean . . . that is another mistake. Just like the leg is walking and the head is directing, so although the occupation is different, both of them are important. We require the head and leg also. If simply head is there, if there is no leg, then who will walk? This is the understanding. Not equal. Everyone must have his separate duties to serve the whole. That is the arrangement. This is real understanding. The most important part of the body is head, but that does not mean the leg is not important. Leg is important in its work, and head is important in its work. So we require both, head and tail both, not that simply leg or simply head. But when we make comparative study, we can understand that head is more important than the leg. If you cut your leg, you can live, but if you cut your head, you'll die. Therefore the conclusion is: head is more important than the leg. Comparative study. Otherwise head is also required and leg is also required. You collect some flowers, nice flowers, and add with it some green foliage, it becomes more beautiful. Simply flower is not so beautiful. When it is arrayed with some green foliage, then it becomes more beautiful. So we have to take in that sense. But comparatively, the flower is more important than the foliage. But the both of them are required.

Harikeśa: The foliage also becomes beautiful because of the flower.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is God's creation. Just like these trees. They are condemned, but still, with trees we can make a beautiful garden, and that is very enjoyable. That is God's arrangement. Even insignificant . . . kṣūdrād api pradhānasya jāyate paramaṁ hitam. One is very insignificant and other is very important, but both of them combined together becomes beneficial. (break)

Viśāla: I remember over five years ago you telling me about "If you read the first nine cantos of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious." Would you kindly tell me what does it mean to be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: What do you understand, fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Viśāla: What does it mean to be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Prabhupāda: No, what you mean, first of all let me know.

Harikeśa: What do you think fully Kṛṣṇa conscious means? You tell Prabhupāda.

Viśāla: It's to see Kṛṣṇa face to face?

Prabhupāda: That means Kṛṣṇa conscious? Everyone is seeing Kṛṣṇa face to face. When you go to the temple Kṛṣṇa is there, and you are seeing. Does it mean that everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Viśāla: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the meaning of Kṛṣṇa conscious?

Indian man: Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54).

Prabhupāda: Hmm, that is part of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, brahṁa bhūtaḥ. Real Kṛṣṇa consciousness is: "Kṛṣṇa is master; I am servant." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Viśāla: To understand that you're the servant and Kṛṣṇa is the master. I see.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you fully understand, that is your Kṛṣṇa . . . that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. (break) So long you think that "I can also become like Kṛṣṇa," then you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Viśāla: In other words, if you still have material desires you can't be fully Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness: anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Make all your material desires zero.

Viśāla: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You should only desire to serve Kṛṣṇa. (break) . . . clear or not?

Viśāla: Very clear. Thank you very much.

Harikeśa: What if a person doesn't desire material enjoyment, but still, there is so much dirt?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Who is that person . . .

Harikeśa: I'm just wondering if that's possible.

Prabhupāda: . . . who has no material desires?

Harikeśa: A person really wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, but somehow or another, so much dirts gets in the way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dirt means it is not yet zero. I said that all material desires should be made zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam.

Harikeśa: As soon as the desires completely change, then everything else is purified.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As Arjuna said, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava, naṣṭo mohaḥ: "Now my illusion is over. I agree to act as You say." This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādān madhusūdana (BG 18.73). (break) The moha is there. Moha means these desires are illusion, like dreaming. In dream we see so many things. They are all false. In dreaming I am seeing that somebody is coming to kill me, but there is nobody; but still, I am dreaming. This is called moha. So when one is free from moha, then he's Kṛṣṇa conscious. The whole material world is going on under such illusion. Therefore it is called māyā. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. (end).