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760316 - Conversation - Mayapur

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760316R1-MAYAPUR - March 16, 1976 - 33.30 Minutes

(Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Some men can come through the other room and stand out here.

Devotee: Some devotees are going to have to go around.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You lead them, Gargamuni.

Prabhupāda: Get this fan on. Fan and lights.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fan and lights.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: On behalf of all the bhaktas and Rādhā Dāmodara, we'd like to offer you this dakṣiṇā.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: You know, if Kṛṣṇa is virāḍ-rūpa—so big mouth, so big belly—that, whatever you give, that is not sufficient. (chuckles) So here we are spreading Kṛṣṇa's mouth very widespread. Here is the plan for Māyāpur temple. This is the . . . this is only residential quarter. Real temple is not yet constructed. It will occupy 350 acres of land. So you are the pillars of this construction work. We are doing all your construction work on your contribution. So go on preaching and distributing books. If we get the . . . we are . . . books are . . . as your pushing on the sale is very nice, then the customers are also nice. These are American Express? No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Barclay's Bank.

Prabhupāda: Now everyone is issuing these traveler's check.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But these are issued differently. In American Express, they charge some money, but these are freely given.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Then why the American Express will remain if people will go there? Free service to the constituent, those who are customer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think even to those who are not the constituents also.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. The public also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This happens to be our bank that we deal with.

Prabhupāda: Barclay Bank is big bank, American bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Ādi-keśava Swami, his grandfather is Mr. Barclay. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: It is grandfather's bank?

Ādi-keśava: Great-uncle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Great-uncle.

Prabhupāda: You are Mr. Barclay also? No.

Ādi-keśava: Different name.

Prabhupāda: So our . . . they are accommodated in how many buses?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Currently in six buses and six airports, because Tripurāri Mahārāja leads about twenty-five men distributing in different airports around the country, and then there's another hundred men who are working out of six buses. Now two more buses are being built to accommodate everyone. And then another ten men are working at our bus construction head office.

Prabhupāda: So, of course, you are not going to be absent for many, many days. You come and go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There won't be any difficulty, because every . . .

Prabhupāda: They are trained up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is the . . . training, that is the real perfection. And our Tripurāri Mahārāja is there, and Viṣṇujana Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And Ādi-keśava Mahārāja is very expert, and Madhudviṣa Swami will be helping them.

Prabhupāda: A devotee's one qualification is dakṣa, dakṣa, expert. Out of the twenty-six qualifications, a devotee is always very expert in dealing. It is not that because they have left anything material, they do not know how to deal with material things. Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī did it. Perhaps you know the story. Political. Although he had nothing to do with material things, when there was a political gain, he tackled it very nicely when he was young man. But devotee, although not interested in material things, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake they deal with material things very expertly. That should be the qualification of a devotee: expert. Not that, "I have nothing to do with these material things." No.

prāpañcikatayā buddhyā
mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgo
phalgu vairāgyaṁ kathyate
(Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.256)

The devotee's vision is: in everything there is Kṛṣṇa. That is a fact. Just like we are using this Dictaphone and tape record. It is material things. Sometimes they accuse that, "You are against material things. Why you are using these material advantages?" Do they not? You do not meet such men?

Ādi-keśava: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But for us there is nothing material. We have no such vision as "material" and "spiritual." Material means when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right. That is material. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor, He is the enjoyer. So, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything Kṛṣṇa's. So when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right on everything, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material; everything spiritual. Everything is generated by Kṛṣṇa's energies, and there are two energies: material energy and spiritual energy. So in the material energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less or nil. And in spiritual energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prominent and very acute. I think I give this example somewhere—just like this nail, and just little below, there is skin. Both of them are my body, but in the skin there is sensation; in the nail there is no sensation. But both of them are coming from the same source, the body. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ (SB 1.5.20). Everything is Bhagavān, but it appears like different to the different vision. Therefore we take everything, kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.26). Everything . . . in everything there is Kṛṣṇa's relationship. So there is no question of giving it up. Why shall I give it up? This is Kṛṣṇa's property. Why shall I give it up, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā, by mistaking it as material? Kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ.

So these Māyāvādīs, they say the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This material world is false, and Brahman is reality." And we don't say that. Everything is reality because it comes from reality. When it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is unreality. It is not properly being used. Otherwise there is no such thing as unreality, because it is coming from reality. So why shall I give it up, tyāga? Neither tyāga, neither bhoga. Everything utilize for Kṛṣṇa. This is our way. Any question on this regard? I saw your wife also. She is here.

Bhagavān: Yes. She is here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically all of these devotees are so much dedicated to book distribution that they are going out now nearly seven days a week, without stoppage.

Prabhupāda: Utsāhān.

utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt
sato vṛtteḥ saṅga-tyāgāt
ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati
(Upadeśāmṛta 3)

Utsāhā is the basic principle, utsāhān and sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), association of sādhu. Simply utsāhān and the association is not sādhu—then it is material. Utsāhā means association of sādhu. Sādhu means devotee. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Who is sādhu? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. One who has no other business than to serve Kṛṣṇa, he is sādhu. So the association of such sādhu . . . sādhu, sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge. Whatever a sādhu does, there is no fault. Everything is right. But still, because we are in this material world, we shall act in such a way that nobody can accuse us. Sato vṛtteḥ. Sādhu is above all this vṛtta, but still, you keep pace with the material world; otherwise your activities will be hampered. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī has said sato vṛtti: "The dealings should be very honest." Sato vṛtteḥ sādhu saṅge, ṣaḍbhiḥ, six items. Utsāhān, enthusiasm; dhairyāt, patience. Utsāhān dhairyāt niścayāt, with confidence. So enthusiasm, patience, confidence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt.

Prabhupāda: Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to act according to the prescribed way, and sato vṛtteḥ, and dealings very honest, and sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). Everything perfect. So where you are all staying? In new quarters?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we have been very fortunate. They have given us . . . just as you have this wing, they have given us the whole wing on the next floor above.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very comfortably situated.

Prabhupāda: Everything, water supply, everything is there? In the beginning I thought that "Such a big building. Who will come and live here?" (laughter) It is that Matsyāvatāra. You know Matsyāvatāra? Keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra, jaya jagadīśa hare. That one muni, he took water in his pot. He saw a fish. So after some time he saw the fish has grown, that it cannot be kept in that kamaṇḍalu. Then he gave more space. Then after some . . . he saw, he has . . . "It is filled up." Again more, again more. Then he threw it in the ocean, and again still big. (chuckles) That is Kṛṣṇa. Pralaya-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedam. And do you know this song:

pralaya-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedaṁ
vihita-vahitra-caritram akhedam
keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare

Similarly, Varāha-mūrti also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda? When I was very young, in the house I was living in, my friend, his father was from Louisiana, where they have many alligators. This was in New York.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Louisiana means near . . . around Florida.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Many . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Alligators, crocodiles.

Prabhupāda: Crocodile.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So one day his father brought him two little crocodiles as a pet back to New York, where we were living. So he was keeping them in the bathtub. But just as you described, they started to grow, and eventually they became so big that he had to keep them in the house, and then they were running. And anyone that would come in, they would run. (laughter) Finally they had . . .

Prabhupāda: Very ferocious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They had to give them to the zoo, New York Zoo.

Prabhupāda: But I understand they can be tamed also. Is it possible?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think so.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Miami where I grew up, they used to have crocodile fights. What they would do, they would feed the crocodiles until they were completely sleepy, then they would fight with them . . .

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . so they couldn't move around so quick.

Devotee (2): Sometimes they take their teeth out.

Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes. How condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi (Padma Purāṇa). Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says: "Ten lakhs" or "Eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach, and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says: "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it, you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati. What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection, as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that the newly initiated brāhmaṇas have to come now. Maybe we should . . .

Prabhupāda: So some meeting is not going to be held, down?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there's constantly kīrtanas and discourses.

Prabhupāda: Lecture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lectures and kīrtanas.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanas. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's soldier to fight with māyā.

Devotees: Jaya!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are our commander-in-chief, Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself says, ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo (Ohe Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura). When He . . . in Caitanya-caritāmṛta you have seen? In the first part you can find out this verse, ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo.

Devotee: There's a song like that also.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says it may be in a song also, one of the Vaiṣṇava songs.

Prabhupāda: The first part. Here, this is first part of the . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Look in the index in the back.

Prabhupāda: Index. You can read it. So you are reading books also. Not selling, but reading also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really they are soldiers, because many of them have been very severely beaten by police authorities and others during the distribution.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The men who are here now in this room, some of them have been put in jails . . . (aside) Watch out for that thing. Put in jails and beaten just for distributing these books.

Prabhupāda: So there was no legal action?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in the courts.

Tripurāri: Some places the police have a conspiracy against our devotees.

Prabhupāda: What is our fault?

Tripurāri: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.

Prabhupāda: That they don't want.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The people want, but the authorities don't want.

Prabhupāda: You have found out?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I . . . the index is not there, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: There is no index?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No index. First chapter?

Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index list . . . the purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating, therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise, alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that, "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing. "United we stand; divided we fall." This is our . . . so be strong in pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa will help. He is the strongest. Still, we must be combined together. Saṅkīrtana. Saṅkīrtana means many men combined together chanting. That is saṅkīrtana. Otherwise kīrtana. Saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir militvā kīrtayeti saṅkīrtana. Bahu. Bahu means many; many combined together. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, combined together. All nations, all persons, they should combine together. There is hope in our Society, combination. There are Hindus; there are Muslims; there are Christians; there are black, white. Combine them. That looks very beautiful, just like combination of many flowers. There is black flower also. It looks nice, very nice. Each and every flower take alone, it is not beautiful, but when they are combined together, it looks very beautiful. It is attractive. And that is wanted. Because from the spiritual platform we are all working. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Spiritual platform, every one of us, we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. So where is the competition between one servant with another? There is . . . even there is competition, the center is Kṛṣṇa—"Who can serve more?" Therefore that competition is very welcome, because there is no personal interest. Everyone is trying how to serve Kṛṣṇa more. That is wanted. The competition is there in his real form and perverted form. In the real form Kṛṣṇa is the center, and the perverted form, I am the center. I compete with you to satisfy my senses more. What is called? Heliocentric or . . .?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Egocentric.

Prabhupāda: Egocentric, yes. This is egocentric.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be Kṛṣṇa-centric.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then it is perfect. The competition must remain. The others, they say: "Why competition? Make it zero." That is imperfect. But competition to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is reality.

Devotee (3): I found the verse. It's in "Ohe Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura." Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, not this verse. What is the meaning?

Devotee (3): Meaning is, "I do not find the strength to carry on alone the saṅkīrtana of the holy name of Hari. Please bless me by giving me just one drop of faith with which one can attain the great treasure of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So nobody is powerful alone. In Kṛṣṇa's service also, combine together. That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is no question of being alone anywhere, because the guru is always with one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ideal.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Guru is also depending, and combination means I depend on you, you depend on me, that's all. That is combination. That's all. So, prasādam? Now we are fasting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are fasting.

Prabhupāda: In the evening there will be prasādam. Arrangement is being made for?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are taking very nice care of us here, Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: Next year it will be very nice. Our these rooms will be complete. I think this year also, not very much inconvenience.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not at all.

Prabhupāda: In Bengali there is a proverb, "If you are good men, then you can accommodate yourself lying in a leaf of the tamarind." You know the tamarind leaf? That is the smallest leaf of the tree. Big tree, and the leaf is very small. Yodi hao sujan, tetul patay na-jan. (If people have a good relationship then in a tamarind life, nine people can stay together.) And just contrary to that. These are American tape recorder or Japanese?

Devotee: Japanese.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda! (offer obeisances)

Prabhupāda: Take this apple and cut into pieces.

Devotees: Prabhupāda ki jaya!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. All glories to the saṅkīrtana party, Rādhā-Dāmodara.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, we signed only the two top checks. The rest we left blank so you can do whatever you want. You can fill in whatever you want on the inside.

Prabhupāda: That is good. (end)