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760604 - Lecture SB 06.01.38 - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760604SB-LOS ANGELES - June 04, 1976 - 30.11 Minutes

(Prabhupāda sings Jaya rādhā-mādhava, then chants prema-dvani) (break)

Pradyumna: Translation: (04:58) "The blessed messengers of Lord Viṣṇu, the Viṣṇudūtas, said: If you are actually servants of Yamarāja, you must explain to us the meaning of religious principles and the symptoms of irreligion."


śrī viṣṇudūtā ūcuḥ
yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya
yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ
brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ
yac cādharmasya lakṣaṇam
(SB 6.1.38)

They challenged, the Yamadūtas challenged: "Who are you, interfering in our business? We have come to arrest him." So, before talking, they . . . the counterchallenge was that "You spoke that 'We are servants of Dharmarāja. So it is his jurisdiction. This person is impious. So this is the jurisdiction of Dharmarāja. He has to try the case and give him punishment, criminal department, law and order. So you cannot interfere with us.'" Therefore the challenge is replied by Viṣṇudūta that "If you are actually representative of Dharmarāja, who tries the case of dharma and adharma, first of all explain what is dharma and what is adharma."

This is very nice challenge. Suppose if somebody, if you say that "We are Kṛṣṇa conscious persons." So one may challenge you, "First of all, explain what do you know about Kṛṣṇa?" That is quite natural. If you do not know about Kṛṣṇa, you have no right to say that "I belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement." You have no right to say. So your position is like that. Simply if you have a tilaka and a kaṇṭhi, that does not mean that you belong to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Any cheater can do that. You must know the philosophy. If one challenges, you must reply. Therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung a song indicating these cheaters. He says, eita eka kalir celā: "Here is a servant of Kali." What kind of celā? Nāke tilaka galai mālā. "He has got a tilaka and galai mālā. Bās. That's all." He does not know what is the philosophy. If you do not know the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if you simply mark your body with tilaka and kaṇṭhi, then you are not proper servant; you are not qualified. So tilaka, mala is necessary. Just like a policeman. A bogus man, if he dresses like a policeman, he is not policeman. He must know what is the police law, criminal law, who is to be punished, who is not to be punished, what is criminality, what is innocence. All these things he must know.

So here is a very good challenge, that "You are talking that you are the servant of Dharmarāja. I know Dharmarāja." It is not that . . . because they must know. They are coming from Lord Viṣṇu, and they know that everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa, āra saba bhṛtya, yaiche nācāya, se taiche kare nṛtya (CC Adi 5.142), the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. The master is one, Kṛṣṇa, or God. There cannot be two masters. That is not possible. Or two Gods. You cannot say, "In our faith, God is like this." That is nonsense. God is one. You cannot say, "In our country, gold is like this." No. Gold is everywhere the same, either in your country or my country, it doesn't matter. Gold is gold everywhere. You cannot say "Christian gold," "Muslim gold" and "Hindu gold." No. Similarly, you cannot say "Hindu God," "Muslim God," "Christian God." No. God is one. Otherwise, there is no God. The definition of God is eka brahma dvitīya nāsti. There cannot be any competitor of God. Just like nowadays so many rascals are coming, presenting, "I am God." What kind of God you are? You must check, before accepting one rascal as God, what is God.

The description of God is there in the śāstra: yasyaika-niśvasita kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (BS 5.48). That is God. By His breathing, millions of universes are coming with exhaling. And when He's inhaling, billions of universes are going within. Can you show like that? That is also not original God. That is plenary expansion of God. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ viṣṇur mahān sa iha yasya kalā-viśeṣa (BS 5.48). This transaction is going on in the body of Maha-Viṣṇu. The material world is being created and annihilated. When there is exhaling, the universes are coming into existence; when there is inhaling, it is all finished. This material world is like that. It is not permanent. Everyone got such experience. Your body, it has a beginning at a certain date from your father and mother. It stays for some time, it develops, it gives some by-products, then it becomes old and you finish. This is material body. Everyone knows it. Similarly, the whole cosmic manifestation, what you are seeing, so big things—it may be very big thing, but the process is the same. Either you take the body of an ant or you take the body of Brahmājī or . . . the process, the same, I mean to say, rules and regulations. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). There is no change. So that is God, that God is producing by His exhaling, inhaling, so many universes. Why should you take such a cheap God? As soon as the God has got some toothache, he goes to the dentist. And he's God! Don't take such cheap Gods. We don't take them. At least, we Kṛṣṇa conscious persons.

Just to accept Kṛṣṇa as God . . . Arjuna, he knew that Kṛṣṇa is God. Therefore he requested Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, can You show me Your form how You are universally working?" And He showed His universal form, how it is working. That is described in the Eleventh Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. Why? Arjuna knew from the very beginning that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord; I am His servant." But either by Kṛṣṇa's yoga-māyā or Arjuna's humility, he played that "My family is more important than Your service." He played like that. At last, he agreed that kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). So Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna, they're teaching us by playing, because Kṛṣṇa can play with His devotee, not with others. Most confidential devotee, what He wants to teach. So Arjuna presented himself as ordinary human being. He's not ordinary human being; he's personal friend of Kṛṣṇa. He cannot be bewildered, but he played the part of ordinary being, that "I have got attachment with my family. Why shall I kill them by Your order, and what is this, what is that?" so many, you know, Bhagavad-gītā, there are questions and answers. And at last, Kṛṣṇa said that "Give up this foolishness. Surrender unto Me." So he agreed, Arjuna. That is perfection. That is perfection.

So here the same thing. Kṛṣṇa said . . . Kṛṣṇa described what is the meaning of dharma. Here the question is that "If you are servant of Dharmarāja, then explain what is dharma and adharma." Dharma means religiosity, and adharma means nonreligiosity. What is adharma? Everything is . . . because this world is duality. If there is black, there is white. If there is good, there is bad. If there is father, there is son. Otherwise, there is no meaning of son, er, father. "I am father, bachelor daddy." No. If you are father, you must have a son. If you are a son, then you must have a father. If the son says, "I dropped from the sky," how it is possible? These rascals say it, that there is no creator. How is that, there is no creator? First of all, prove that you have no creator. Your father has created. How you can say there is no creator? Silent. The rascal is silent. You are talking of "There is no creator," but you, yourself, you were created by your father. So these rascals are talking foolishly, and other foolish persons are accepting them. But we are not so intelligent. Our answer is that "You say there is no creator. Then how you are created?" It may be we are rascals also, but this is our simple question.

This morning I was asking that why there is Sunday first and Monday second. Who can answer? Is there anyone in this meeting who can answer my . . . this simple question? Why, all over the world, the everyone accepts Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Sambar, Mangalbar, Bhurbar—the same thing; there may be different language—and Saturday is last? Why this arrangement? Who can answer? Is there anyone? I've asked this simple question to so many. (laughs) Even Svarūpa Dāmodara, our doctor Ph.D., he has not yet answered. And I've asked this question to Dr. Wolfe also. He's not present here?

Devotee: "Someone has an answer."

Prabhupāda: You have got answer?

Caitanya-siṁha: Because Sunday is God's day. Sunday is Kṛṣṇa's day.

Prabhupāda: That is your sentiment. (laughs) Speak scientifically. Nowadays, the scientific days, you have to speak scientifically.

Devotee: The order of the planets.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the answer. Anyway, he has got the right to ask that "You are representing Dharmarāja. First of all, explain what is dharma. Then we shall understand that you are representative or order carrier or servant of Dharmarāja." That will be explained.

So here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, we also can understand what is dharma. This is the question and answers between Yamadūtas. But if you are serious student of Bhagavad-gītā, we can understand what is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, abhyutthānam adharmasya (BG 4.7). Just like this world is duality. If you are sick, that means you are not healthy. And if you are healthy, then you are not sick. Duality. There are two things: sickness and health. So if you are really religious, you are not religious . . . nonreligious; not nonreligious. Two negatives make one positive. So two things are there: religiosity and nonreligiosity. So duality.

So Kṛṣṇa says two things, that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). When there are discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles . . . so there is religion. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir. Glānir means discrepancies. When there is discrepancies of religious principles, and abhyutthānam adharmasya, and the society is prominent in doing sinful activities, abhyutthānam . . . if you are not religious, then you must be irreligious. Two things are there. If there is no light, it is darkness. If it is not darkness, it is light. Similarly, two things cannot go. Either you are a demon or you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, godly. This is the conclusion. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca (BG 16.6). There are two kinds of men in this world. Not only in this world; throughout the whole universe. Two kinds. No third. What is that? Daiva āsura eva ca. One is godly, another is demon. So what is the difference? Viṣṇu bhakto bhaved daiva (BG 16.6). Those who are devotees of the Supreme Lord, they are called demigods, or godly; and āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ, and those who are opposite number, they are demons.

So we have got two tests. One test is sufficient. If one is not devotee, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a demon. Finish our conclusion. We simply ask whether you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, whether you know Kṛṣṇa. If he says, "No, no. I don't know . . ." I think our Śyāmasundara's daughter is . . . she used to preach. She used to go to any elderly person when she was four years old: "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" you see. So he says, "No, I don't know." "Oh, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." This is preaching. Finish, preaching. A child can preach. A child can understand, "Do you know God?" "No." "You are a demon." (laughter) Finished. Where is the difficulty? As soon as you say, "I do not know God," you are a demon. Bās. First-class demon. "I am scientist." "You are rascal." "No, I have studied, I have got my degrees." "Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. (laughter) Rascal, you have studied so long, simply waste of time. Your real knowledge is taken away because you do not know God."

That is described. We have got very simple test in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement how to distinguish between an intelligent man and a rascal. As soon as we understand that he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. Bās. There is no need of testing. Even though he's M.A., Ph.D, D.H.C. and so on, so on, still we shall call him a rascal. This is open challenge; it is not secret. How? Cāṇakya Paṇḍita has said, tyaja durjana-saṁsargaṁ vidyayā 'pi alaṅkṛto san. He very nicely says that "Rascals and fools—must give up their company." Tyaja durjana-saṁsargam. "No, I have got many friends, they are university educated." But he says, vidyayālaṅkṛto 'pi san. Even they are with degrees of M.A. Ph.D., tyaja durjana saṁsargaṁ vidyayālaṅkṛto 'pi san. Even he is educated, so-called educated, he's not educated. Anyone who does not know about God, he's not educated, he's a rascal. This is our conclusion. Not our conclusion, this is śāstra's conclusion. So "He has got so many degrees and he's a rascal and he's durjana, a bad man?" "Yes." "Why?" Now, maṇinā bhuṣitaḥ sarpaḥ kim asau na bhayāṅkaraḥ. Suppose a serpent, he has got a gem on his head. Is it not fearful? Very good example. Suppose a snake comes here and it has a jewel on the head. So you'll be all safe? (laughter) No. He's dangerous.

So that is going on. So-called educated scientist, degrees, what they're doing? Atom bomb, kill men. This is their scientific discovery: that you can kill a man with a knife, one man or two men; now we have got scientific discovery, millions of men in a moment. "Come on, discovery." So why don't you discover something that millions of hospitals, diseased men can be brought into life again immed . . .? That we cannot do. Kill, killing, killing is going on. What you have discovered? So this is their scientific . . . discover something and declare that there is no more death. Here is medicine. Then that is scientific discovery. What is this nonsense? People are dying, and you have discovered something to facilitate death? Is that discovery? Therefore they are this snake with jewel. That's all. They're not gentlemen even. A gentlemen thinks that "I shall kill so many persons by dropping one atom bomb. I have discovered such nonsense thing"? And they are going on as scientist. So be careful. They are like snakes with jewel on the head. That's all. So they do not know.

So here we must know what is dharma and what is adharma. Simply rubberstamp, "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this . . ." like the tilaka and mālā. No. You must know the science. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei 'guru' haya (CC Madhya 8.128). Any person who knows about Kṛṣṇa perfectly well, he is guru. That's all. He is guru. So we have to learn this science, what is dharma, what is religion, what is irreligion, what is God. That is human life. Simply talking all nonsense, "There is no God and there is no creation." Don't waste your time. Don't waste your time. The human life is very, very valuable. This is the time. In cat's and dog's life . . . we cannot invite the cats and dogs in this temple and take this lesson on Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā. We invite human beings. We invite human beings because there is chance, athāto brahma jijñāsā. A human being can understand what is God, what I am, what is my relationship with God. And if we act according to that, our life is successful. Simply denying God and manufacturing atom bomb and killing, is that civilization? No.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (end)