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760621 - Conversation - Toronto

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760621CR-TORONTO - June 21, 1976 - 65:47 Minutes

(Conversation in Airport and Car)

(at airport; noise of airport announcements throughout)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: . . . Chapter:

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi yuktvaivam
ātmānaṁ mat-parāyaṇaḥ
(BG 9.34)

This is the dharma, and Kṛṣṇa comes personally to establish it. And He makes distinction in the Fourth Chapter, dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, abhyutthānam adharmasya (BG 4.7). He distinguishes between adharma and dharma. And He's establishing at the end of Ninth Chapter that the dharma is to become His devotee, to think of Him, to worship Him and to offer all obeisances to Him. And that persons who reject this dharma or who have no information of this dharma, they have to revolve in the cycle of birth and death, not achieving Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: The beginning is to understand this transmigration. But actually people do not understand. Cycle of birth and death . . . if one does not understand what is birth and death, what he'll understand of cycle of birth and death? Mostly because they do not understand what is birth and what is death, they are mostly going on on the bodily concept of life. That is animal life. Ask anybody. Bodily concept. And everything is going on. We pass through Canada to USA. Why Canada? Why USA? This bodily concept. It is meant for the Canadians, it is meant for USA, Americans. Immigration, customs—the same mentality as a dog coming from other neighborhood. The other dogs, they all come together, "Yow, yow! Why you have come? Why you have come?" In civilized dress only. This is the position. What is the difference between the dog's mentality . . . when another dog comes to another neighborhood, these neighborhood dogs, you know that? All animals, "Yow! Why you have come?" So this department, "Why you have come here?" dogs barking, and this immigration, what is the difference? Is there any difference?

Devotee: There is no difference.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is our policy. Very difficult. (break) . . . they will understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Their mentality is not better than the animals.

Hari-śauri: It's probably a lot worse.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Worse, because animal has got some limit, but a human being who has developed consciousness, it is unlimited. Just like a thief is thief, but when an attorney-in-law is a thief, he's a very big thief. Huh? (airport announcement)

Hari-śauri: When a man's educated to know the difference . . .

Prabhupāda: Ordinary thief and a educated thief. In your country there are many lawyers. Their only business is how to cheat.

Hari-śauri: Every lawyer. Because they're trying to make money as well, only they're in a better position.

Prabhupāda: Big, big lawyers, through this real estatement. I have got bitter experience. People go to real estate man, he has got, say, five thousand dollars, and he wants to purchase one hundred thousand worth property. And they'll say: "Yes. We shall arrange." He will, in such a way, implicate, that he will take this five thousand dollars, and it will be divided amongst them. He will not give anything.

Hari-śauri: We lost quite a bit of property in Detroit because of that lawyer of Ambarīṣa's.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: That lawyer of Ambarīṣa's, when they did the Detroit deal, they said they lost quite a bit of movable property because the lawyer did a deal with the real estate agent to take it away for himself. He got that boat very cheap, and other things also.

Prabhupāda: Lawyer is thief, medical man is thief.

Hari-śauri: All thieves. They're all thieves.

Prabhupāda: Then whom to believe? Whom to believe, this is the question.

Hari-śauri: The general public, they are becoming very bitter, very frustrated, because they can't turn to anyone for protection anymore. The government is the biggest thief.

Prabhupāda: Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. It is stated that all government men will be rogues and thieves. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ (SB 12.2.8). Rājanyaiḥ means government men, and dasyu-dharma means practiced to roguery, thieves.

Hari-śauri: In America police are well known for being corrupt.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. In India. Police means everyone takes, first of all . . . (indistinct)

Viśvakarmā: They can be saved only by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa only you are saved. Otherwise, our Bombay construction was rejected by the police constable that, "Kīrtana is nuisance." Public servant, he can say, blaspheme a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā, in the same country, Bhagavad-gītā. And India is condemning now, government men, "Kīrtana is nuisance."

Hari-śauri: Temporarily, at least, it seems the demons are very powerful.

Prabhupāda: They will become powerful. And people will be less intelligent—means less God conscious. Just like when the king is weak, thieves and rogues, they flourish.

Hari-śauri: So we just have to be very strong and uncompromising.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: We just have to be very strong and uncompromising.

Prabhupāda: How you can compromise with thieves and rogues?


Prabhupāda: Boarding time?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The flight leaves at 5:05. They'll call. They'll call when it's time. The plane doesn't appear to be here just yet.

Devotee: 4.45 it's due in. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . pieces cloth. Although they are poor, still they can understand it very easily, very easily, that you are not this body; there is God; if you don't become devotee, you'll remain in this material . . . these things they will immediately understand.

Hari-śauri: How is it that, say . . . obviously they must be backed by very great pious activity, but somehow or other, they . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore they have taken birth in India.

Hari-śauri: Is that special mercy, that they seem to be impoverished?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Is that special arrangement that they seem to be impoverished? Say like the villagers, they're not very wealthy, or, uh . . .

Prabhupāda: That is due to misgovernment. There is no king; all rogues and thieves are in the government. Mismanagement. It is the government duty to see that everyone is doing nicely so that they can live peacefully, happily. There must be direction. Just like parentless children. Nobody is to take care; they'll be wretched. So India's position is like that—the parentless children. There is no good government. And they supply this control wheat that is not even touchable. Unfit for human consumption. There is a worm . . .

Hari-śauri: Control wheat?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They purchase from here and there all rejected wheat, and they supply it. There is no ghee, no milk, no proper food grain. Everything black market. Any necessary commodity you cannot have in the open market; you have to purchase in black market. Just like for the building purpose, cement. In your country you can purchase any amount of it. You cannot purchase. You have to purchase black market, and that cement also mixed with some . . . what is that?

Hari-śauri: Mixed with . . . (indistinct) . . . or something.

Prabhupāda: And unless you give some bribe, it is not possible. (break)

Viśvakarmā: . . . for the balcony in the church in the other room? The vyāsāsana. (indistinct—announcement being made)

Prabhupāda: . . . fit for sitting. That is very nice. And next time when I come the seat should be just Deity altar, so that all balcony can see.

Viśvakarmā: Seat should be . . .?

Prabhupāda: My seat should be near the altar of the Deity.

Hari-śauri: The vyāsāsana. Like in Los Angeles, at the side? On the left-hand side?

Prabhupāda: Not left-hand side. Just like you are facing Deity and there are spaces here.

Viśvakarmā: Between the doors.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Viśvakarmā: Which side, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Viśvakarmā: Which side . . . on the left-hand side or the right-hand side of the Deity, facing towards the altar?

Prabhupāda: Any side.

Viśvakarmā: Any side? How far away from the front? In the middle, so that they can see from the balcony as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (child calls out) "Prabhupāda"? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sounded like it.

Hari-śauri: Sounded like it. I don't think it could have been, though. Not a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Child is . . .

Devotee: Could be Buffalo.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not. I see the child.

Devotee: He'll have the same benediction as Ajāmila. (child calls out "Prabhupāda")

Prabhupāda: He knows me. (laughs) (break)

Devotee: Should there be a canopy over top of the vyāsāsana?

Prabhupāda: No, no canopy. (break) . . . to fly to our New Vrindavan? How long it takes?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I asked Kīrtanānanda. He said about one hour, twenty, twenty-five minutes. (break)

(in car after arrival)

Prabhupāda: Let us see what is the reception. (break) We have come from a different way. From Buffalo.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, you had to come from Buffalo. (break) . . . take to get to Buffalo?

Prabhupāda: Three hours.

Hari-śauri: No, only about an hour and a half.

Prabhupāda: Hour and half?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No, no, from . . .

Kīrtanānanda: To the airport from Toronto?

Hari-śauri: From leaving Toronto, we left one o'clock, and we arrived at . . . it was about two hours. We arrived just after three.

Kīrtanānanda: Some devotees were there from Buffalo?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break)

Kīrtanānanda: . . . had a very nice place for you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) People are being kept in such an ignorant way that they do not care about sinful activities. They can do anything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Actually, there is no advancement of civilization. They are thinking they are running on four-wheel motorcar, and the dog is running on four legs. What is the quality change? This is going on in the name of civilization, and people are kept in ignorance. Where is the advancement? Running by motorcar is advancement? They have no knowledge that there is next life, and "Today I am running on Ford car, tomorrow I may have to run like dog on four legs."

Kīrtanānanda: They do not think like that.

Prabhupāda: So this is ignorance, this is ignorance. And they are kept, the whole world—the state, the father, the guardian, everyone, the priest . . . (indistinct) . . . knowledge. Dull-headed, ignorant. And they are passing on as philosopher, scientist, religious leader. (break) . . . hard to bring them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Taking these few years, fifty years or sixty years living here, and dance like dog and finish. There is no life. You die peacefully or . . . (indistinct) . . . and not dying peacefully, they cry. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kīrtanānanda: How to save them is very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Simply chant. This is the only. Give them chance to come and chant with us, take prasādam. Then after few days or few months, let them understand the philosophy.

Kīrtanānanda: We have all got this experience.

Prabhupāda: You have all got this experience. This is the only way. I started this movement on this determination that, "They have nothing to give. Simply by propaganda they are exacting so many people and befooling them. And I'll give them prasādam, nice chanting, and they will not come? They must come." This was my determination. And I began with this.

Kīrtanānanda: I remember.

Prabhupāda: So this is the only way. Give them chance, "No talk, please come. Chant and dance with us and take kṛṣṇa-prasāda and go home."

Kīrtanānanda: I think it was just ten years ago when I first met you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: This month.

Prabhupāda: I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this, you have to . . ." Never said it. Then gradually, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little . . . (indistinct) . . . there is no hopelessness. Because so many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of . . . (indistinct) . . . but you cannot expect that cent percent people will come. That is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people will come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still we have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, as I have given you instruction—it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is in your . . . (indistinct) . . . and this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class—tenth class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brāhmaṇas, sages, saintly persons—no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Kali-yuga, all fallen. Don't be disappointed. Go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes with Dr. Mishra, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live? And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa, "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?

Kīrtanānanda: June or July. June or July, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, June or July. Yes, June.

Kīrtanānanda: I think it was June.

Prabhupāda: Then Hayagrīva and Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja, they came first. Before that, Mukunda came.

Hari-śauri: He's the oldest devotee? Mukunda? He's the oldest devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There were others; they have left. That Mr. Green.

Kīrtanānanda: Jagannātha dāsa. I think you named him Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: And Ravīndra-svarūpa.

Kīrtanānanda: Another one, Carl, Carl.

Prabhupāda: Carl, yes. He has left. To Washington directly? This road?

Kīrtanānanda: Not Washington, D.C. This is Washington, Pennsylvania.

Prabhupāda: This is Pennsylvania state?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. The girls were saying that today at the airport was the most demoniac day they ever had.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kīrtanānanda: Today was the most demoniac day at the airport they've ever had. They're getting very, very nasty. Every time they talked to someone, they come up and they say: "Don't take it. Don't take it. They're ripping you off. They're 'Moon' people," like that.

Prabhupāda: "Moon people"? What is that?

Kīrtanānanda: You know there's a lot of publicity right now about this Korean so-called spiritual master, Moon.

Hari-śauri: We just read one article in the U.S. News, shows a picture, that man it describes.

Kīrtanānanda: It is causing a big stir, these "Moon" people. He has just bought the hotel in New York for five million dollars.

Prabhupāda: He is also against our movement?

Kīrtanānanda: Well, I wouldn't say . . . he never says anything about our movement . . . (indistinct) . . . but they are equating us with him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ah.

Kīrtanānanda: The public is sometimes equating us with him and these other rascals. He claims that Jesus Christ never lived to fulfill his mission, which was to establish the perfect family. They killed him before he got married. So he has come, and he has all these wives. At least, he used to . . . always, whenever any of his disciples would get married, first he would have their wife.

Prabhupāda: And they're doing that? (laughs)

Kīrtanānanda: People cannot distinguish between what is true and what is bogus. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . sophistication. (break) . . . reminds me of a place in Germany. Heidelberg.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Like New Vrindavan?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, you'll find so many places in this country named . . . this probably was originally a settlement of German people from Heidelburg. (break) I don't know. It was a chemical plant.

Prabhupāda: Oh. These things are not required at all, but they have created. They are called anartha, unnecessarily diverting valuable attention of the human being to waste their time and energy and next life become a dog. That they do not know. This science is unknown to them. They'll believe, "This life finished, everything finished." That's all. (break) . . . is working. That they do not know. Life is eternal, and how we are under this cycle of birth and death, nothing. Yāvad jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. Cārvāka Muni's philosophy. "So long you live, live happily." But actually they are not living happily. To work in this factory is not happy. He has got suffering. But they are thinking they are happy. Just like the hog eating stool, he is happy. This is gross ignorance. Actually, therefore, there is revolt against these capitalist. There is another unhappiness. Now there is strike. So where is happiness? If there is happiness, why there is strike? Why there is so many strikes? Why there is protest? There is no happiness, but they are thinking it is happiness. Whole thing is based on ignorance, māyā. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. And the direct method for subduing these anarthas, unnecessary troubles—bhakti-yoga. There is no other way. Only bhakti-yoga. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ (SB 1.7.6). People do not know it. Vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Therefore Vyāsadeva, most learned scholar, he has made this Bhāgavatam. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣāt. (break) I was translating the Bhāgavatam, Eighth Canto, Twelfth Chapter.

Hari-śauri: How many chapters is there?

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four. Twenty-four. Half finished. Half finished, Eighth Canto.

Kīrtanānanda: What is Eighth Canto like? What does Eighth Canto contain?

Prabhupāda: Eighth Canto? There is churning of the ocean and producing nectar, and the demons, they did not receive the nectar. There was fight.

Hari-śauri: And the story of Gajendra, as well?

Prabhupāda: Gajendra, that is I think Seventh Canto, no?

Hari-śauri: Beginning of the Eighth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gajendra also.

Hari-śauri: That means four parts. That means four books for the Eighth Canto.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Each volume is more wonderful. Each volume . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah? Oh, yes. There is no comparison of this literature.

Kīrtanānanda: I think before you came, Bhāgavatam was unknown.

Prabhupāda: Unknown, yes. The Ramakrishna Mission published one Bhāgavatam commentary. You know that? Farce. They, these Ramakrishna Mission people, have done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture . . . (indistinct) . . . of course, it is not taken very seriously, Ramakrishna Mission.

Hari-śauri: Not in the West.

Prabhupāda: But they publicized in India that they have all, everyone, become . . . (indistinct) . . . in India they were doing like that, "Vivekananda Road," "Vivekananda Square," and rascals, they do not inquire even what is Vivekananda's contribution. Pradulika prabhāva.

Hari-śauri: You made a good point about why, although now thousands of American boys and girls are coming to India, no one is going to the Ramakrishna Mission, so what kind of impact has he had?

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana they have got hospital and Ramakrishna temple. Who is going there? This is practical example. In our temple, thousands and thousands of the foreign boys and girls are coming, and who is going there? If it was actually they did something, they should at least have gone there out of inquisitiveness: "Oh, where is Vivekananda?" Nobody goes there. Not even to pass urine there. (laughter) (break)

Kīrtanānanda: That Japanese tape recorder.

Prabhupāda: And Hichai is . . . this is called hitchhike?

Hari-śauri: Hitchhike.

Prabhupāda: That is "hitchhike," and this is Hitch-hi.

Hari-śauri: Hitachi.

Prabhupāda: Hitachi, yes. This is a church?

Kīrtanānanda: No, this is an institution, state institution for old people or mental home. I forget. "Western State School." (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . Hayagrīva.

Kīrtanānanda: I think he's in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: I'm trying to get him to bring his boy to New Vrindavan. He's down there with those meat-eaters.

Prabhupāda: She is not agreeable? I think that she is not very well treated by her husband.

Kīrtanānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore . . . otherwise, she is a good girl.

Kīrtanānanda: Hayagrīva's very . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I know she is good girl. He has disrupted his family also.

Kīrtanānanda: If a devotee doesn't follow the principles, then he is sure to suffer. Nothing can be good in his family life.

Prabhupāda: I thought that he is happy in family life. His father and mother came to congratulate him.

Kīrtanānanda: He was better shape when I saw him last week than I've seen him in a long time.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Kīrtanānanda: He was better in Los Angeles when I saw him last week than I've seen him in a long time.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: He never lost his sentiment for you.

Prabhupāda: No, that I know. Therefore I like.

Kīrtanānanda: But he's addicted to his bad habits.

Prabhupāda: He'll be corrected. There is no hopelessness.

Kīrtanānanda: I've always felt that, but it makes it difficult to live with him in the meantime. (Prabhupāda laughs)

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Is that railway line? No. (break) There are some roads, large size roads, Los Angeles. That is America everywhere.

Kīrtanānanda: Big cars and big roads.

Prabhupāda: Opulence.

Hari-śauri: America seems to be one big highway.

Prabhupāda: They have got cars and they have got roads also. Very good. That's all right. But why they should give up the real business of life?

Hari-śauri: I don't think it's so much that they gave it up, they didn't ever know what it was.

Prabhupāda: There was no preaching. There was no education on this subject. The Christian priests, they are unable to . . .

Kīrtanānanda: They have no knowledge themselves. How they can teach?

Hari-śauri: They are all giving up out of hopelessness themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are now asking . . . in Melbourne the priest asked me, "Swāmījī, why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughs) They were little insulted.

Hari-śauri: That first time you visited that monastery, the man that was in charge, the head monk there, after you had visited, a short while later he left and he went to India, looking for enlightenment.

Prabhupāda: Perhaps he got some shock when I said that, "What you have not done?" They received me very well. (break)

Kīrtanānanda: Altogether about an hour and half. About forty-five minutes more.

Prabhupāda: What is being done with Hayagrīva's house?

Kīrtanānanda: I bought that from him. There are a few devotees there right now.

Prabhupāda: No, the other house.

Kīrtanānanda: Which one? Up at the original farm?

Prabhupāda: No, not original.

Kīrtanānanda: That's the one I'm talking about.

Prabhupāda: Tulasī?

Kīrtanānanda: No, they're just wild flowers.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Hari-śauri: Very fragrant.

Prabhupāda: Yes . . . (indistinct) (break)

Kīrtanānanda: (Prabhupāda is taking prasādam) There's plenty of milk and ghee.

Prabhupāda: This is human food. They do not know how to eat, the Westerners. (break)

Kīrtanānanda: . . . ever eat these nice foods they give up so much sinful activity, very easily.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Kīrtanānanda: By just eating nice foods they can give up so much sinful activity.

Prabhupāda: Who has made them?

Kīrtanānanda: Different devotees—mother Lakhimā, mother . . . (indistinct)

Hari-śauri: Combined effort.

Kīrtanānanda: Tamāla said this is the only place in the US now they have Vedic cooking. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . facility to get enough ghee. They have got the chance.

Hari-śauri: Fresh vegetables, everything. (break)

Kīrtanānanda: Feast? Yes.

Prabhupāda: What did they say after eating these things? (break)

Kīrtanānanda: . . . Indians come and they always say, "Who has taught you to cook like this?" We tell them, "Śrīla Prabhupāda has taught us everything."

Prabhupāda: At this 26 Second Avenue, Acyutānanda Mahārāja . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) Many Indians come?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. (break) . . . membership program now.

Hari-śauri: There were about three or four hundred Indians came to the feast yesterday. No, not yesterday; on Sunday.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred.

Hari-śauri: Six hundred.

Kīrtanānanda: In Toronto?

Hari-śauri: Yes, very big turnout. Big turnout also in Detroit. Same in Detroit. I never realized there were so many Indians all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Generally, they are engaged in education.

Hari-śauri: I know in England they all have responsible jobs. Doctors and like that.

Prabhupāda: There are many medical practitioners, Indians. I have . . . I learned that British people, they like Indian physicians.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes, they're very popular.

Prabhupāda: They have got faith that these people treat carefully. One civil surgeon is a Bengali in London. Civil surgeon. You have heard this Aurobindo? His father was a medical practitioner in England, and he was born there.

Hari-śauri: His mother was Indian also or . . .? No. (break)

Prabhupāda: Indian families, they are living for two, three generation. (break) . . . teaching them how to make home comfortable, they'll be trained up to become prostitutes. How to kill time. (break)

Hari-śauri: I think Tamāla was saying in New York they need good cooks there. Tamāla was saying that in New York they don't have very good cooks there.

Prabhupāda: Nowhere there is good cook except here. (laughter) Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is good cook.

Hari-śauri: He's trained everybody up very nicely.

Kīrtanānanda: Prabhupāda knows how to flatter. Well, I think even we could not cook so good in Boston or New York. Without being in Vrindaban and the natural ingredients, it is not so . . .

Prabhupāda: You can supply them ghee.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, we can do that. (break)

Prabhupāda: You grow podina? Podina? Mint? Mint?

Kīrtanānanda: Mint? Yes.

Prabhupāda: Chutney.

Kīrtanānanda: Mint chutney. How do you make mint chutney?

Prabhupāda: I'll teach you. You have got mango?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I'll teach you. Chili?

Kīrtanānanda: They are not ripe yet. The plants are still too small for this year.

Prabhupāda: They are not giving chili?

Kīrtanānanda: Not yet. It is too early. In August. But I can get. I can get green chili. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . something to drink?

Kīrtanānanda: No.

Hari-śauri: I don't know what happened to that orange juice. Someone else was carrying it. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . because it is so nice.

Kīrtanānanda: That is your mercy.

Prabhupāda: So this was my dream, that a place should be there where we can get all nice foods, best foods, of milk. Kṛṣṇa is fulfilling that desire. Everything's there. Simply these rascals, they do not know how to live or to eat. Everything there. Intelligence is there, everything is there. Simply for want of training they have become rogues. Make them human beings, your countrymen. Everyone should follow the duty, materially and spiritually. Anyway . . . here is very nice here, this climate. It is a winter season of . . . (indistinct) . . . (laughs) These months, June, July, August, up to September?

Kīrtanānanda: No, actually up to November. The devotees like the winter, though.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Kīrtanānanda: It is even more conducive to think of Kṛṣṇa in the winter.

Prabhupāda: So the neighborers, they like it? Neighborhood men?

Kīrtanānanda: Most of them like us. There are a few that don't like us. But they are not violent. They are a little nasty.

Prabhupāda: Nasty they have been trained up to be. (Sanskrit) Once trained up nastily, it is very difficult to . . .

Kīrtanānanda: The state police in this local area has become very favorable to us. During that quarantine the state police had to stay there. So they even began to come to ārati. They took our books; they were reading but there's been a lot of change in some of the government. Some of the government men are now much favorable, more understanding.

Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.

Kīrtanānanda: The sheriff is very favorable to us.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kīrtanānanda: The sheriff is very favorable, the judge. That judge that came to see you last time you were here, he still keeps a picture of you in his desk.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Kīrtanānanda: When the palace is finished we will have nice ceremonies, and many of the local dignitaries will come. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . begins?

Kīrtanānanda: Moundsville is that way about five miles. We are almost to New Vrindavan now. Two miles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our post office is Moundsville.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. Do you want to go directly to your quarters, or do you want to stop by the temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes, temple. Deities open?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then . . . (break) Actually it is gradually expanding in these quarters. (break)

Kīrtanānanda: . . . be on local television soon. That will be very good propaganda for us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is shown? Or no, not yet.

Kīrtanānanda: Not yet.

Prabhupāda: One thing you have missed: how we are preparing all these foodstuff.

Kīrtanānanda: It was too short. In the movie? It was too short how to prepare it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How from milk in different stages you get this foodstuff, kachorīs, siṅgāra, sandeśa, rābṛi. And this chānā, if fried, if you prepare nicely with little hing and ginger, then it will exactly taste like meat. They'll forget. If you give them without telling them, they will think that they're eating meat.

Kīrtanānanda: Hing and what? Prepare with hing and . . .?

Prabhupāda: Ginger.

Kīrtanānanda: Ginger.

Prabhupāda: They prepare the semiliquid meat like that. You give them little piece and they will not understand that it is not meat. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: When we were in Los Angeles, Pālikā made some barā and it tasted . . . Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja wouldn't eat it. He said it tasted too much like fish.

Prabhupāda: With urad ḍāl, you can prepare fishy taste.

Hari-śauri: Someone told me that your Guru Mahārāja said that . . .

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Anyone who is not taking urad ḍāl, he must be taking fish silently, secretly. (break)

Kīrtanānanda: Not on this side, other side. I want to buy that farm there.

Prabhupāda: This barn, Vrindaban. What is this building?

Kīrtanānanda: They are constructing a . . . I have a big carpenter shop, a construction shop, a printing shop. And upstairs there will be a big hall for Janmāṣṭamī that holds seven, eight hundred people. There is another . . . that's our guesthouse building we're building there. You can see the top two floors, with the arches.

Prabhupāda: What is this? Another barn?

Kīrtanānanda: This is an ox barn here.

Prabhupāda: No, this.

Kīrtanānanda: That tank? That tank we are making for grain storage.

Prabhupāda: Oh, much improvement. (end)