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761013 - Lecture Hindi - Chandigarh

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

761013LE-CHANDIGARH - October 13, 1976 - 40:24 Minutes

(Translated from Hindi into English)

Prabhupāda: The material world is false. Our view is that if the cause (brahma) is real then how the material world is false? The Vedānta Sutra in the beginning discusses, Athāto brahma-jijñāsā (Vedānta Sutra 1.1.1), how is this human form of life different from the animal form of life. The difference is that the dog simply barks, eats, drinks, produces some children and after a few days dies. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānam etat paśubhir narāṇām, there is no difference between humans and animals in these four subject matters. The dog eats, I also eat; and the dog sleeps, I also sleep; the dog produces children by sex with opposite sex, I also do that—and the dog also fears the enemy, I also fear. So what is the difference? The only difference is that in the human society one can inquire into the Brahman. Athāto brahma-jijñāsā (Vedānta Sutra 1.1.1), what is God, how the material world is functioning, does it have a master or not, does it have a controller or not, all these questions arise in the heart of a human being. And the dog does not know all these facts. This is the only difference. There is no other difference. That is why it is said in the scriptures:

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

Ātma-buddhi, this body is made up of three basic elements mucus, bile and air. According to Ayurveda it is a combination of mucus, bile and air. So this combination of mucus, bile, air, if someone thinks of these as the soul, identification of self as body and working on this basis, so the scriptures call such a person sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, and kharah means ass. So this identification with the body is not a human intelligence. Human intelligence is awakened when they inquire into the Brahman and understand that I am not this body. I am pure spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is human form of life. Till the time this question is not inquired into, till he does not acquire such knowledge, he remains an animal only.

Therefore in the human society there is a system of giving education, go to any part of the civilized society, there is religious principles there because dharmeṇa hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. A society in which there is no discussion on religious principles, what is dharma, who is God, what is a spirit soul, these questions are not inquired into, understand that society to be of cats and dogs only. The way such people of cats and dogs society speak, is being explained by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself. (aside) Give me spectacles. So what does He say? So first He says asatyam, this material world is unreal, asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ kim anyat kāma-haitukam (BG 16.8). Nowadays big big scientists they have a theory "accident" accidental theory. They are not able to analyze and explain. So they have made this theory of accident. Nothing happens by accident. Jagad āhur ahaitukam. That something happens without a cause, that is not possible in this material world. There is a cause for everything.

So the Lord says, kṛṣṇa, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), our Vedic scriptures which have understood the position of the Lord have concluded, Lord Brahma, Brahma-samhita, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, other Vedic scriptures, have all concluded that, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is a list given of the Lord incarnations, qualities, pastimes, and in the end it is concluded that this list provided to you, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28) and the name given here kṛṣṇa, that is kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, that is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself, avatara and avatari. Similarly it is stated in the Brahma samhita:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
(BS 5.1)

Īśvaraḥ means the one who commands. So all of us are minute controllers. Here the Chief Minister is sitting, he commands to govern the State. But he is also given commands by somebody else. It is not a fact that he is the supreme commander, no! So like this you will see that a person gives commands and also takes commands from others. You will not find such a person who only gives commands and does not take commands from anyone else. That is not possible. You go up to Lord Brahma also. Not only in this planet, there are other planets, other demigods, at the top Lord Brahma is there. He also has to take commands, tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ (SB 1.1.1) this Lord Brahma is the first living creature within this world, he also accepts commands. If you go further, above Lord Brahma is Lord Visnu, above Lord Visnu is Maha Visnu, above Maha Visnu is Narayana, above Narayana is Sankarsana, these are the facts stated in the scriptures, each of the controllers and there are many below. I also command my disciples, all of you command in your business and factory, in your homes. In this sense all of us are controllers. There are no two opinions on this fact. All are controllers.

Nowadays the theory, everyone is God. Yes, we accept they are God, agreed. But the scriptures state, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, there are many controllers giving small small instructions. There is no two opinions on this. But the Supreme controller, Parameśvara, means one over whom there is no other controller, that controller is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (BS 5.1) and His body that is sat cid ananda, the evidence should be taken from the scriptures. Sat cit ananda, His body is not like our body. Our body is not sat cid ananda. First thing is that it is not eternal, it will stay for a few days, 20,50 or 100 years at the most. That is why it is temporary and not eternal. And cit means knowledge, so it is not full of knowledge also. Many things we have to learn, I am still learning. So it is not full of knowledge nor is it eternal. And there is no question of bliss. How can there be bliss? Till the time you have this body, there will be these three material kinds of miseries, ādhyātmika, adhidaivika and adhibhautika you will have to tolerate this. Now you can see that they are fanning. Why? It is hot and we cannot tolerate heat. This is adhidaivika. So also the miseries we experience with the mind, body is called ādhyātmika. The miseries we experience because of other living entities, animals, insects, they inflict misery on one another, eat one another, this is the rule of the world, jiva jivasya jivanam. This is called adhibhautika. And the demigods give us misery, excessive rains sometimes, sometimes earthquakes, sometimes epidemic, in all these kinds of miseries we have no role to play. Till this body remains these three types of miseries will be there, tri-tāpa-yatana this is called tri-tāpa, these three fold miseries you have to suffer. So where is the bliss? This body is not eternal, not full of knowledge and there is no bliss.

And what is the nature of the Lord's body? Sat cid ananda vigraha. So wherever it is mentioned in the scriptures about nirakara it does not mean that He has no form, that is not what it means. Form is there but that form is not like what form I have, what form you have. Vigraha means having a form. Why the Lord should not have a form? The Lord is the Supreme father. There is a form of my father, he is person, therefore I am also person. And like this you go from father to his father to his father till Lord Brahma, above him there is the Supreme father, and to say that He has no form, what kind of conclusion is this? He most definitely has form. Just like you have not seen your great grandfather, that does not mean he doesn't have a form. You had a great grandfather, will you call him formless? No!

So the Lord is not formless. Formless in this sense that He doesn't have a form like us. His form is sat cid ananda vigraha. Therefore the scriptures state īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, don't think that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person. That's why in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord has said, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11) because I accept the human like form and descend for the welfare of the people, those who are asses, mūḍhā means ass, they think of Me as a ordinary man. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā Why is the example given of an ass? The dealings of an ass are not correct. Such a person is called an ass. Like the ass stays in the house of a washerman. He loads three tons of clothes on the back of the ass. He takes it to the washing site. He gives it some grass. The ass eats the grass whole day long and in the evening brings back three tons of cloth. So why is he called an ass? He doesn't observe that this grass can be got at any place. Why do I work so hard in the home of this washerman, carry tons of cloth, and not even one cloth is mine. Such a person is called an ass. An ass is one who doesn't understand that what is my interest in this material world and I am working hard day and night, why I am working so hard , what is the purpose, one who doesn't understand this but only works hard, he is called an ass.

So the scriptures state that word mūḍhā. In another place also it is used, the Lord has used this word mūḍhā in many places. In another place He says:

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

The ass like people, with demoniac nature, this is stated in the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. So what are the symptoms? He says, na māṁ prapadyante, he doesn't accept the Lord. That is his first qualification, what is God? na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante, why? mūḍhā, ass and narādhamāḥ. narādhamāḥ means just like we are all human beings, nara. So we can understand God if we so desire. He has that facility. That is the only difference between human beings and animals. If a person desires, Athāto brahma-jijñāsā (Vedānta Sutra 1.1.1), if he inquires into what is Brahman, who is God, this is all there in the scriptures. Why these scriptures have been compiled? This Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya Caritamrta, Vedas, Purāṇas, there are different varieties of scriptures, they are the property of the land of India. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu states, bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra, one who has taken birth in the land of India, that birth is the result of much piety and not an ordinary birth. I am seeing while travelling all over the world, even till date, although we have fallen so much, the culture found in India is top most. This is my practical experience. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says:

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

This is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. This deity which you are all seeing of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that was His mission, that those who are Indians, those who have taken birth as human beings in the land of India, not as an ass, for him his duty is to make his life successful. Because all the scriptures are available here, Vedas, Purāṇas, Vedānta, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhagavad-gītā, many scriptures. There are 108 Upanishads alone, eighteen Purāṇas, Ramayana, Mahabharata, Bhagavad-gītā, read all these, hear all these, make all your life successful. What have you got to learn from the external world?

In one place in the Caitanya Caritamrta it is stated that, añadir bahirmukha jiva kršna bhuli gelā, ataeva krsna veda-purana korila. The living entity has forgotten the Lord, when he forgot that history is not known, but he has forgotten. Añadi means that even before the time of creation, añadir bahirmukha jiva kršna bhuli gelā has forgotten the Lord, and he needs to be reminded, he has to be advised, and therefore ataeva krsna veda-purana korila. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that you have taken birth in the land of India, you hear all these, read all these, even reading is not required, hearing is good enough. Just like you are all hearing and we are speaking. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ that is devotional service. So some people hear and some people speak. So it is beneficial to both the speaker and the listener. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17) It is beneficial to the listener and it is beneficial to the speaker, it is such a thing.

So that is why even till today, although we are so fallen, when we celebrate this festival in India 25000-30000 persons come because it is in their blood, because of having taken birth in this land of India, devotional service is in his blood. It has to be awakened, nothing else. This is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra this is for all. It is not that one Bhaktivedanta Swami goes abroad and does welfare work. All of you go, there are many customers for this and they will accept it graciously. These boys from Europe and America who are touring with me, I have not bribed them, those who work like servant for me. They have got something that's why they are here with me, otherwise what do they have to do with me? For one thing India is a poor country and I am a sannyāsi a beggar. No! but they are understanding that if there is any substance then that is in India. This is a fact also. That is why Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that we should not learn from other countries as to how to exploit others, to loot others. No! Welfare!

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

First of all make your life successful, read all these scriptures and when you assimilate them only then can you do welfare. When you have nothing yourself then what welfare can you possibly do? That is why Caitanya Mahaprabhu says:

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Further He says:

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

This is also stated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu that all over the world in every town and village My names will be chanted. This was a prediction. This is happening. And you have seen this in relation to Caitanya Mahaprabhu that we now have made 102 centers all over the world, Europe, America, Australia, Japan, Africa, all over. No place has been omitted. All by myself, single handedly this has been done. If all of you make your own lives successful and spread this culture worldwide, then you will see how the respect for India goes up. This is wanted. If you love your country, if you love your culture, you should take up this Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement and preach all over the world. That is wanted. Yes. This is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. What we mean to say is don't neglect this movement, this is our request to you. Whether you are a business or a government officer, this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no difficulty in this. That has also been stated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. What has He said?

āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
(CC Madhya 7.128)

Caitanya Mahaprabhu says under My order, all of you become spiritual masters (guru). So someone might say how can I become a spiritual master, I am not learned, have not studied or heard, how can I become a spiritual master? So Caitanya Mahaprabhu gives the assurance that there is no difficulty in this. You become a spiritual master. How is that? yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa, just learn this much, don't try to become over smart. Whatever Lord kṛṣṇa has spoken, just repeat that, that's all. Then you become a spiritual master. To become a spiritual master is not difficult if the Supreme spiritual master Lord Kṛṣṇa, Himself comes and explains. What more do you want? Who is God, we all think about it, philosophically we analyze. But the Lord Himself and speaks, why don't you listen to Him? Why do you act oversmart on this matter? Accept whatever the Lord has spoken. The Lord says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), there is no truth superior to Me. And till the time the Lord was present here, He has exhibited also nobody was superior to Him. Right from His birth, the demons were ready to kill Him. Even before His birth, His uncle, Kamsa Maharaja, he gave instructions to his servants that as soon as Kṛṣṇa is born, bring him to me to be killed. So starting from there, then Aghasura, Bakasura, Putana, so many of them, at the end Kamsa was killed by the Lord. So nobody can kill God.

All that which is going on nowadays that get rid of God. How can you get rid of God? Just now yesterday we heard of accident that 95 persons got killed in an aircrash. So the laws of the Lord will operate. How will you over come that? This is foolishness. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam eva param avyayam, he is called an ass, one who doesn't accept God. So the symptoms of such an ass is given by the Lord Himself, asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8), the first thing is that this world is unreal. This world is unreal and whatever I am speaking that is the only truth and the rest is all unreal. No. The world is not unreal, it is real. If the world is unreal and Brahman is real, then the meaning of Brahman is janmadasya yatah. The Vedānta explains what is the meaning of Brahman, the original source of everything, that is Brahman. Athāto brahma-jijñāsā (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.1) What is Brahman? janmadasya yatah, the Bhagavata begins with this sutra. janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1), the original source, the main source, what is that? Is it dead matter or living matter? All this has been discussed. So after analyzing it has been concluded, no, it is it not dead matter, abhijñaḥ it is fully cognizant. Otherwise how can He create? Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād, He should be fully aware of everything. Just like if an engineer has made a big bridge, he knows everything about it. He is sitting in the office but he knows where each and every screw is placed, he knows everything. That is why the scriptures say nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ svarāṭ, like we have this body. I say that this is my body, but I don't know anything about this body. We eat, how that food goes to the stomach, how it transforms into blood, how it transforms into stool and urine, how it goes into the heart, we don't know anything. We just eat. The doctors know a little but they are not fully cognizant, not complete in knowledge. But the Supreme Lord, one who has created this world, nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ He knows directly and indirectly everything. He is called the Supreme Lord. So these are the conclusions.

So those who are foolish, they call it unreal. The one who has created this huge world, we build one house, a small house built in a nice way, if a friend comes and tells us that you have built a wonderful house, then we are elated. And if someone comes and says that you have made this house but this is unreal, then we will be discouraged that I have spent so much money, so much hard labor, and this person says that this is unreal! So why is it unreal? Those who do not accept the Supreme Lord, one who does not understand the Supreme Lord, he will say that this world is unreal. It is not unreal, there is so much craftsmanship in this. One who is intelligent can see this, that how the sun rises, the moon rises, how there is ocean, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4), all this that the Supreme Lord has created is unreal? And if the Supreme Lord is brahma satya, ultimate truth, then how can something unreal emanate from Him? The false is this what we say that God is not there, everything has emanated by itself, that is false. There is Supreme Lord, there is His craftsmanship and persons who understand this. One should not say this that, the demons say that this is unreal, this is false. We do not say this is false.

There are two schools of philosophy, Mayavada philosophy, and Vaisnava philosophy. The Mayavadis say the the world is false. Brahma satya jagat mithya. No. Not false. The Lord also say this. Who says this world is unreal? The demons say this. The Lord Himself says , bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca prakṛtir me bhinnā aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4), It is My energy. I have created it, so how can it be false? There is a purpose behind it, the Lord has created it. We need earth, water, fire, land, air, everything is needed. So the Lord says all these, prakṛtir me bhinnā aṣṭadhā, these eight type of material energies are created by My energy. And further He says, apareyam (BG 7.5) these eight type of material energies are inferior energies. There is another energy superior to his inferior energy. Apareyam itas tv anyāṁ prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām (BG 7.5) there is another superior energy, what is that? Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho That is living entity. Like we all are. There is difference between us and dead matter because we have control over dead matter. We bring bricks, stones, wood and we make a beautiful house out of these. So I am also an energy and the dead matter is also an energy but I the living entity is superior energy. The Lord has explained this very nicely. This is superior energy and this other energy. So we are energy not enjoyer. The enjoyer is only the Supreme Lord, the sole enjoyer. Just like Arjuna after hearing the Bhagavad-gītā accepted puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ:

paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ
(BG 10.12)

He accepted that You are the only enjoyer. The rest are all energy or to be enjoyed. The meaning of puruṣa is enjoyer or bhoktā. The Lord Himself says:

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

We all want peace but the path to peace we don't know. This the Lord Himself says that you want peace, this is the path to peace. That the enjoyer is the Supreme Lord. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, and I am the controller of everyone. Our trying to become the controller is false. This is not true. The Supreme Lord says that I am the controller. We are Indians, so we think India is ours. Till what time India will remain ours? Till the time we have this body. The body finishes, then India also finishes. India is there. In Paris in a park there is Napolean and France . . . (indistinct) . . . so I asked them, France is here, where is Napolean? I did not get a reply. So this is going on. So what the Lord says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, the control of the Lord remains, and we come for 2-4 days, 10-20 days, 10 years or 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, millions of years. Lord Brahma lives for millions of years. That means he is not the controller, the controller is the Supreme Lord. We come, to the dharamsala, stay for 2-4 days and then leave. Does the dharamsala belongs to us now? This is all illusion. This is all illusion going on in this world. Everything belongs to the Supreme Lord, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ, everything belongs to the Supreme Lord, this sense of understanding has to be awakened. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

We are trying for this purpose. This is our request to you, this is Indian culture, all of you join in this, this is not sentimental. This is not just talking, there is evidence from the scriptures. We have written 84 books and displayed in front of you. You read from the scriptures, understand the science, take this movement seriously and as Caitanya Mahaprabhu says bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra, we go abroad to beg. Why should we beg? You give something, you have something to give. Why do you go to beg? Apana dhana diye, bhiksa mange pare. Own wealth is squandered away and now begging from others. This is not correct. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement says that you have the substance, you take it, make your life successful and spread it in the world and do welfare to others.

Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

Organizer: After Prabhuji's lecture if any brother or sister has any doubts they can come forward here and ask questions in relation to what has been spoken today only. The question should be only on what he has spoken and not been understood. So there is two minutes for this. Any one can come forward and ask question.

So that means that you are all agreeable to what he has spoken. So now there will be arati, so all of you join, there will be sankirtana, all of you participate and get the Lord's mercy. And after that we will show you very beautiful picture slides, just like Guru Maharaja ji has said, that the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in the other countries, and Mr Caturvedi had also said, and we will make this clear in these pictures how people in other countries are accepting this and why they are accepting this and in which countries.

Now there will be arati. All of you join in this. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come Prabhu come here.

Question: (indistinct) . . . has sat cid ananda has a form or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes form, just like you have got form asat, acit, nirananda, there is a form opposite to this form, sat-cid-ananda.

Question: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That when you come to understand then you will know. It cannot be explained in one minute. It requires some education and some understanding. But you have to accept the statement of the sastra that vigraha, sat cid ananda. Just like you know that I have got mind, and you have got mind. Can you see my mind?

Question: (indistinct) . . . no . . .

Prabhupāda: No no just like you cannot see but you can perceive that I have got money, you have got money. I have got intelligence, you have got intelligence. But what is that intelligence can you see? Something cannot be seen but it can be perceived. Therefore our knowledge is acquired by perceiving. Vedas means sruti, you have to hear and perceive. You cannot see at the present moment, you haven't got the eyes to see.

Question: (indistinct) . . . can I not say that . . .

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, just like I have already given you the example that the gross thing you can see.

Question: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes consciousness.

Organizer: There is a sloka in Bhagavad-gītā tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34) it is said that a person who asks question should do so submissively. You first come under his shelter and say I don't know anything. You please be merciful upon me and enlighten me. So then that question you get an answer to. Anybody else . . . (break in audio) (end)