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761225 - Conversation - Bombay

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



761225R1-BOMBAY - December 25, 1976 - 07.19 Minutes


(Conversation with Mr. Tombe M.L.A.)



Mr. Tombe: After all, even if it is thrown out . . .

Prabhupāda: That is also answered in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by very strong word. Bhāgavata says, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). If the public is like dogs, camel, hogs and asses, so what is the value of their election? He'll elect another big dog or camel. So there is chaos.

Mr. Tombe: Then how to throw out good leadership?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Good leadership means you must learn how to lead people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the śreṣṭha, the leader, is ideal, then others will follow. But if the leader is not ideal, if he is not in the awareness of things, then people will be misguided.

Mr. Tombe: So how can we chalk out a program of, say, training of leaders from villages . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to take lessons from the biggest leader, Kṛṣṇa. Aham ādir hi devānām (BG 10.2). He's the leader of the demigods also. We have to take lesson from. That lesson is there, Bhagavad-gītā. But we do not take it. We manufacture our leadership. That is the defect. What Kṛṣṇa says . . . Everyone is proud of reading Bhagavad-gītā, but the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā is how to kill Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That is their . . . All these. What can I say? These misleaders, they are doing that. Leadership is already there—Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna is learning from Kṛṣṇa. So if you learn from Kṛṣṇa you become perfect leader. But we do not take Kṛṣṇa's instruction. We manufacture our own ideas. That is failure. Otherwise in our country so many learned sages, especially Kṛṣṇa is there, and their books are there, their instructions are there. We do not take them. Still we become leader. So what kind of leading? He's imperfect, so he cannot lead. Then there will be some mistake and chaos. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said . . . He said, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). You understand little Bengali?

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

So Indians, they can make their life perfect by following this Vedic literature, and they can lead the whole world. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's. First of all you become perfect by taking lessons from the Vedic literature. And then you do good to others. But without making yourself perfect, if you try to do good to others, that is chaos. Then again comes, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Some blind men following another blind man, what will be the result? The present Indians, we have lost our own culture. We have rejected our own culture. Still we are leading people. There is chaotic condition. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct this mistake. So leaders like you should cooperate.

Mr. Tombe: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India . . . If the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our . . . Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the supreme leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These all are Prabhupāda's books. Eighty books.

Prabhupāda: Eighty-four books we have . . . I have written within ten years. And our publication house, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the first in the world for publishing religious and philosophical books. We are selling not less than six lakhs' worth books daily.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, publishing division. (indistinct comments to another devotee)

Mr. Tombe: I have got only a few of them now. I would like to pick up . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here, these are . . . We only have sample copies in India. So I'll tell Girirāja to bring you some. These are only sample copies for Prabhupāda's display. (end).