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770108 - Conversation E - Bombay

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770108R5-BOMBAY - January 08, 1977 - 20:53 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . headquarters in Vṛndāvana. And try to organize this Gurukula as their world attraction. That will be your success. Simply teach them nicely English and Sanskrit. And our books are there. And regular habits: going to the Yamunā in procession, timely get up early in the morning, attending class, clean dress, clean bedding, clean room. Śikhā-sūtra. That Vāmanadeva gave this description. Where is that book?

Jagadīśa: I don't know. Pradyumna may have taken it.

Prabhupāda: There are two books. (pause) Woman . . . girls should be taught how to become faithful wife, how to learn nice cooking, cleansing, dressing. Simple method. There is no objection of their becoming scholar, but that is not necessary. They have got natural inclination to give service by cooking, cleansing, dressing. Cleanliness is the first necessity. That is hygienic, spiritual and calm, quiet. India has got special facility to remain clean. Only in this country you can take thrice bathing. In other countries . . . easy there. In your country there is hot water. There is no difficulty if one practices. I think our men have such practice. But this cleanness is this taking bathing at least twice. That keeps a man very clean.

Jagadīśa: Yes. Since I've been taking two baths a day, unless I have two baths I don't feel clean. Sometimes I am very busy and don't get to bathe twice, and then I feel very dirty.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I don't feel clean if I don't have three.

Prabhupāda: Also. He also. He also takes. So if it is practiced, it keeps health very nice. I was taking all along. Since I was attacked, heart, they said you should be kept from catching cold.

Hari-śauri: You wanted that description of Vāmanadeva as the dwarf brahmacārī? It says: "Mother Earth gave Him a deerskin, and the demigod of the moon, who is the king of the forest, gave Him a brahma-daṇḍa, the rod of a brahmacārī. His mother, Aditi, gave Him a cloth for underwear, and the deity presiding over the heavenly kingdom offered Him an umbrella. O King, Lord Brahmā offered a waterpot to the inexhaustible Supreme Personality of Godhead. The seven sages offered Him kuśa grass, and mother Sarasvatī gave Him a string of rudrākṣa beads. When Vāmanadeva had thus been given the sacred thread, Kuvera, the king of the Yakṣas, gave Him a pot for begging alms."

Prabhupāda: In Kanpur there is a brahmacārī aśrama. Sometimes gṛhasthas, they invite the brahmacārīs, to feed them, and when a brahmacārī is initiated, they give them this pot. So that brahmacārī aśrama, the man who is maintaining, he occasionally collects these pots, so, and he sells all these pots to a brass merchant. People give sacred thread, a pot. As they give in charity to the brāhmaṇas, they give in charity to the brahmacārīs.

Hari-śauri: It says: "Kuvera, the king of the Yakṣas, gave Him a . . ."

Prabhupāda: Another system is—during the initiation time, somebody becomes godmother of the brahmacārī and gives some money.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, that's described here. It's described here. It says: "Kuvera gave Him a pot for begging alms, and mother Bhagavatī, the wife of Lord Śiva and most chaste mother of the entire universe, gave Him His first alms."

Prabhupāda: Bhikṣa-mātā. Bhikṣa means giving alms. At least every woman becomes a bhikṣa-mātā, alms-giving mother. This is system. My mother was bhikṣa-mātā to one brahmin. He is the son of our priest. Family priest, family guru, bhikṣa-mātā, still in Hindu family the system is still going on—brahmin visiting daily, informing, "Today is this tithi. The duty is this, the sunrise at this time is . . ." This is brahmin's duty, to go to the neighboring householders, and whatever they give, take. That is brahmin's art. At the same time, they keep some medicine. Every house there is some ailments, they'll give some medicine. Still. Now it is not so . . . in our childhood every day some brahmin visitor would come. (pause) So I will take massage like yesterday, early.

Hari-śauri: Right here?

Prabhupāda: Hmm, hmm. I want to show again.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Pālikā's in there now.

Prabhupāda: So why Pālikā is not helping her to get the beads?

Hari-śauri: She's already got it on. I don't know why she didn't come out.

Prabhupāda: (woman answers in Hindi) Call Pālikā. (to Pālikā) Just teach her . . . take her in the kitchen and teach her how to make tilaka.

Pālikā: How to make tilaka, yes.

Prabhupāda: Tilaka, dvādaśa-tilaka. You just go and learn. (break) What is that? (break) Otherwise there is no death. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Actually there is no death. This forgetfulness is death. We have forgotten who was our father, who was our mother, where I was born. That is death. And otherwise I am the soul, continuing. Just like in childhood so many things we did, but we have forgotten. The forgetfulness is death. The more one forgets, the more one is dead. Otherwise there is no death. Na jāyate na mriyate vā (BG 2.20): "Never takes birth, never dies." Then what is death? Death is forgetfulness. (pause) So you can begin now. (break) . . . big, big buildings, the same spirit as karmīs are doing. But this desire to construct very big building, when transferred for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. So we have got this tendency, everyone, to possess money, to have very big buildings and so on, so on. You do it for Kṛṣṇa, then it will be bhakti. Otherwise karma. And karma means to be bound up by the laws of nature. So? What is . . . (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . parāyanaḥ sudurlabhaḥ praśāntātmā koṭiṣv api mahā-mune (SB 6.14.5): "O great sage, out of many millions of materially liberated people who are free from ignorance, and out of many millions of siddhas who have merely attained perfection, there's hardly one pure devotee of Nārāyaṇa. Only such a devotee is actually completely satisfied and peaceful." (break)

Prabhupāda: This is devotee. It is not so easy. But we are giving chance to everyone to come to that position. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But otherwise it is very, very difficult. Muktānām. It begins from the mukta, liberated. Liberated means no more material anxiety.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That stage is little far for us.

Prabhupāda: But if you follow the vow . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The principle . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . then it will be possible.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I find that as a gṛhastha only sometime it's a little difficult, because a gṛhastha has to worry about taking care of his . . .

Prabhupāda: Family.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . family's needs, clothing, this, that. It becomes a problem, where to get the money from. But otherwise . . .

Prabhupāda: And that is also different standard. People are not satisfied with simple living.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So they want . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore there is certain age, that "At this age no more such ambition, material. Lead simple life and advance." That is after fiftieth year. This is our Vedic system. In the beginning it is not possible, but by practicing . . . so if one lives for hundred years, fifty years' extravagancy, "Now stop. Now be regulated and try to be mukta." This is the system. But they don't want even up to the point of death, even men like Gandhi and others. They do not want. This morning Indira Gandhi said that, "I am for the mass of people." And Vivekananda, "My country." The same feeling as a person, individual person thinking of his family, these people are thinking of his country, a big family, not for the whole living entities, jīva. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Nobody is interested in the śāstric injunction. They've lost them all. Temporary. This is an institution to elevate people gradually. (break) If we follow our own authorized . . . (indistinct)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It is not very difficult. I don't find it very . . .

Prabhupāda: Not at all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But I used to work in New York outside all the time, but I didn't find it so difficult.

Prabhupāda: No one will. It is not at all difficult. The principles, the regulation we have charted, it will automatically bring them to that stage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If one chants sincerely and attends all the temple programs, then automatically one . . .

Prabhupāda: (light switch flicking on and off) No electricity. Stop this fan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan? Śrīla Prabhupāda, I may not be going to the Kumbha-melā. I'm going to stay in Bombay and later on go to Delhi and Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. There is Gurudāsa and there others.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because there's lot of work to do, and I'm printing lot of books now, so . . .

Prabhupāda: No, you stay here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus there's lot of income tax. The income tax is so bad, the government laws, that ISKCON cannot even sell books. Even if we sell books we are considered to be a profit-making organization. We can give books away for a donation, but not sell it. They are such . . . tomorrow our auditor is coming on site. He's coming with two . . . one income tax lawyer, who is our new lawyer now. Very nice man.

Prabhupāda: So you want to keep there? (end)