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770108 - Conversation G - Bombay

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770108R7-BOMBAY - January 08, 1977 - 30:58 Minutes

(Arrival of BBT Manager)

Rāmeśvara: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! Jaya!

Prabhupāda: I was just talking about you, that "When Rāmeśvara is coming? What is time?" Very good, early in the morning.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you look well. Are you feeling well?

Prabhupāda: At the present moment I am feeling well because you are here. (laughing)

Rāmeśvara: This is dakṣiṇā from Los Angeles temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bring more money. (Hari-śauri laughs) (break) I am going to spend this money in huge advertisement propaganda. I have given him the idea. Because here in India we haven't got devotees pushing as in USA and America we have got our devotees, they are attacking and pushing. Here there is no such devotee. And therefore I have proposed huge, big advertisement in the paper.

Rāmeśvara: Oh.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Paper and billboards.

Prabhupāda: Especially newspapers. I have given the instruction. You are here, and you can arrange, three. I am reading the matter also like this. Read it. It is very simple.

Rāmeśvara: "Read worldwide Hare Kṛṣṇa literatures and be happy. Books by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. 1] Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Cantos 1-9, twenty-seven volumes, Rs . . ." (aside) Not so many. Per volume. "Bhagavad-gītā As It Is; Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, seventeen volumes; Teachings of Lord Caitanya; The Nectar of Devotion; Śrī Īśopaniṣad; Easy Journey to Other Planets; Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, the Topmost Yoga System; Kṛṣṇa, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, three volumes; Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers; and so on. Recommended by learned scholars and professors all over the world. Available for reading from all university, college and public libraries of the world, and can be purchased."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give the name of few leading bookstores in each city.

Prabhupāda: Not through bookstore. Only our . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.

Prabhupāda: Say Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. And you can give that Calcutta agent, Vrinda Book . . . that's all.

Rāmeśvara: And for the books you have in Hindi you should write "Available in Hindi."

Prabhupāda: No, Hindi we shall advertise differently.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Hindi papers.

Hari-śauri: Advertise in Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Hindi, yes. And this is English. In this way I have given the idea. We'll make the space contract and ask them the concession, because it is charitable.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they will give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way immediately arrange.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I can put one for next Wednesday's paper.

Prabhupāda: First of all take the rate. Then when we shall begin, that we shall decide. So Rāmeśvara is there. He has got very good experience in everything. How do you like this idea?

Rāmeśvara: It's excellent.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then it is final. (laughter) Do it.

Rāmeśvara: I think . . . what if we also mentioned how many copies of Bhagavad-gītā have been sold in the last year?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we can say "Sold to date." I tell people over four million copies sold.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not required.

Rāmeśvara: Not required.

Prabhupāda: We are selling all worldwide. That is there.

Rāmeśvara: And also the American universities are using these books in their courses as required.

Prabhupāda: That we have said: "Available for reading from university, public libraries all over the world."

Jagadīśa: Before you said that we should put also a line that, "These books are available in all major languages of the world."

Prabhupāda: That is not very important. "All over the world" means it is understood in all other languages. Otherwise how they are reading?

Rāmeśvara: In Europe, when men go to the libraries, sometimes they don't speak English. So they're already taking standing orders for the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in French and other languages.

Prabhupāda: So make this immediately.

Rāmeśvara: This is the notice of the money we just sent to Bombay from Los Angeles, seventy thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: So now do the needful about this. And the invoice? You have sent the books?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these books are there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now I have everything in stock. We have everything.

Prabhupāda: And which we have not got stock, you print here. Keep for sufficient stock, in this way. So I was asking last night that at least in Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, simply whatever collection is there, fifty percent print books and fifty percent spend for temple or for pushing on the books. No money available. Bās.

Rāmeśvara: That is always the situation. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) As soon as there will be money, there will be headache and income tax, this tax, that tax. So keep always empty. Bās. Vigorously push, and whatever available, spend. Bās. Finished. How do you like?

Rāmeśvara: That is always our policy.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. And if we have to take contribution, take ISKCON. They're free. But for Bhaktivedanta Trust there is no need of contribution. Then there will be exemption certificate required and so on. We don't want any contribution. If anyone wants to contribute, let him contribute to the ISKCON. They're tax free. And here there is no tax, no tax free. That's all. Print book and sell and spend. Follow this policy there and here also, and push these books. That is our main preaching. Somehow or other, it must go, from door to door, hand to hand. Then our preaching is successful. Anyone who will read, he'll get some benefit, that is sure. Because such literatures are not available throughout the whole world. It is a new revolution to the people in general. Am I right or not?

Rāmeśvara: Definitely.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) Then do it now. And I shall spend all this money for advertisement. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One of the biggest bookstores in Bombay, International Book House, has arranged a whole window display of your books.

Prabhupāda: That is useless.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Many people were seeing it.

Prabhupāda: Useless. I know these men. But you can get some customers. That's all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They got some customers.

Prabhupāda: Do they purchase or simply display?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They purchase also.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, in Belgium the National Museum has also set up in their main window a display of your books. And that's very good for a museum, because they do not sell there, but they are considering it so important and scholarly that they are displaying them for the public to see.

Prabhupāda: That is good recommendation, yes. If that museum is so important, so to keep our books there is prestigious. In Europe, America, it is going on nice. Now here we have to take advantage of these papers. So I have already given Jagadīśa the idea. Now you immediately put into effect. You keep that also with your papers, this format. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Will there be an address on the advertisement for people to write to?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Book Trust officer.

Prabhupāda: So you take your rest now. Then you shall come and go on talking.

Rāmeśvara: I'm not actually tired.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not tired.

Rāmeśvara: I'm feeling completely rejuvenated just seeing you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Utsāhān. This kind of utsāhā required. Utsāhā means enthusiasm. Utsāhān dhairyāt. So did you write to Dr. Shukla for sending the translation?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So do it enthusiastically. It is a new peaceful revolution throughout the whole world. What other news?

Rāmeśvara: Actually, it's not so peaceful in America.

Prabhupāda: No?

Rāmeśvara: In America there are some atheists who are organizing constantly to attack us.

Prabhupāda: That is peaceful. That will bring peace.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. I . . . we're seeing it. Because now it has become such a controversy that the biggest television and radio programs are begging us, "Come on my show and explain the issue, whether you are brainwashing." So we have been already invited to be on the biggest nationwide television programs, and we're on radio . . .

Prabhupāda: And you are presenting nicely.

Rāmeśvara: Usually what they do is they bring someone on the show to ask us questions, and this person is very demoniac. He distorts and . . .

Prabhupāda: Why they should question? We shall explain.

Rāmeśvara: Well, we get the opportunity to, but that's how they set it up. In other words, they want to see us defeated, but in the end they are always defeated.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is in our charge. Yes. They are afraid of their demonic civilization being killed by this movement. That is their . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Fear.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are combining together. The demons, without illicit sex, without intoxication, without meat-eating, without gambling, their life is finished. So they are thinking, "How we shall live if this movement is allowed to make progress like epidemic?" And that is the idea behind.

Rāmeśvara: We are always saying that, "Actually we are not brainwashing; you are brainwashing. You are convincing the people there is no God."

Prabhupāda: We are presenting God, His address, His father's name, His residence—everything. If you are intelligent, you can go back home, back to Godhead. If not, you may suffer. Others will go.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That example you gave of the dead husband . . . Prabhupāda gave an analogy—it is very good—to indicate who is being brainwashed. The example was a dead husband was calling his wife. That is a very good example.

Rāmeśvara: They're actually doing service, because they are forcing all these newspapers . . .

Prabhupāda: That is . . . Hare Kṛṣṇa—this name has become popular all over the . . .

Rāmeśvara: Yes. (to Gopāla) You have to experience it. (laughs) The learned people in America are very concerned that we are being . . .

Prabhupāda: Harassed.

Rāmeśvara: . . . harassed, and they are organizing groups to defend us. In Harvard University . . .

Prabhupāda: That is very good news.

Rāmeśvara: . . . the biggest professors and theologians have organized now a nationwide committee to defend us.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Rāmeśvara: And also the lawyers and psychologists are also organizing in their own fields nationwide committees just to defend us.

Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is . . . Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the . . . Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.

Rāmeśvara: They are getting everyone in America to ask the question, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rāmeśvara: Because of all their false propaganda, everyone is asking, "What is Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: And that is our triumph. They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read that even the New York Daily News took a poll to find out. They were asking every person what they think about Hare Kṛṣṇa. Usually they only take polls for very important issues.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but it was terrible. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The poll?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And Dialectic Spiritualism is published?

Rāmeśvara: This year, after the Māyāpur Festival. Hayagrīva hasn't finished working on it completely.

Prabhupāda: How many pages it will be?

Rāmeśvara: Two volumes.

Prabhupāda: Two volumes?

Rāmeśvara: Two volumes, eight hundred pages.

Prabhupāda: Oh? So, big?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that Harikeśa's book?

Jagadīśa: Śyāmasundara.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda explaining the different philosophies of the world. This was something that just appeared just before I left Los Angeles. This shows how they are fighting back. This a four-page article . . . (break) . . . as if it is a very nice thing. And they say in the article that the parents have to pay these professionals $25,000 just to steal a devotee.

Hari-śauri: Twenty-five thousand . . .

Prabhupāda: Heavy tax.

Haṁsadūta: We don't pay them anything. They come to us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are getting advertise, publicity, paying nothing. This is our profit.

Rāmeśvara: We still have to work very hard to defeat them.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is necessary. You don't sleep. Never, never Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am your friend. I am God. You sleep here. (laughter) I'll do everything." No. "You must fight." That is wanted. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7): "You fight and remember Me. Then I'll do everything." This is an opportunity of remembering Kṛṣṇa always—kṛṣṇa-sevā. (break) So what are these pictures? Against us?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This shows that if they kidnap you and they convince you to give up your belief in God, you will be very happy. You will have nice girlfriend. You will be very happy.

Prabhupāda: Ohhh. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). This material world means this sex. That is happiness. And we are saying, "Don't enjoy this happiness like hogs." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). "This kind of happiness available in the hog's life, dog's life. Why you are anxious for this happiness?" This is our philosophy. Real happiness? Tapo divyam: just undergo some austerity for attaining Kṛṣṇa. This is our . . . how they will understand it? Therefore they are thinking, "Unless there is brainwash, how this philosophy is being preached?" Just opposite. They are thinking, "This is happiness," and we have condemned it: "This is happiness of the hogs." Actually that is . . . hog is also enjoying that sex without any discrimination whether it is mother or sister or daughter. That is going on. Sex must be there. It doesn't matter who he is. This is the world's position, hog civilization. Why a person is condemned as hog, especially in India? He's suar kavaca. Why? The hog has no discrimination of sex. No animal has got—especially this hog. You'll find a study, that one side, drinking the milk, and next, plies over him. Cannot reach. Still, hog wants . . . small kiddies for sex. That sex desire is so strong from the very beginning of . . . and no sense that "It is my mother."

Hari-śauri: Yes, we have seen that in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nature's study gives the . . . and therefore Bhāgavata gives the example: "Don't work so hard simply for hog civilization." So if we use this word—it is very, very harsh for the Western people—"It is the hog civilization," actually it is so. But you cannot say. Satyaṁ priyaṁ vāda . . . unless it is palatable, you cannot say straight. That is . . . they take it seriously, that "You are criticizing our mode of life." Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Dr. Patel enters) Aiye, aiye, aiye. (Please come in.)

Dr. Patel: You're not going to walk upstairs?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not yet six.

Dr. Patel: I did not go for a walk today.

Prabhupāda: Oh. You want to go to Māgha-melā? Er . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kumbha-melā?

Dr. Patel: See, the thing is, I am prepared to come, but difficulty would be to come back.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Dr. Patel: I would not stay all the time that you are there, you know.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can help him get a ticket, because we have a letter of introduction from a very big Central Railway officer for the chief man in Allahabad at the Central Railway. He got us the tickets.

Prabhupāda: Or let us go by car.

Dr. Patel: By car?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: It would take three days.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. What is that?

Dr. Patel: All right. I'll come with you.

Prabhupāda: We shall enjoy. We shall stop somewhere and have picnic. I like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Your car from Vṛndāvana is reaching there. (pause)

Prabhupāda: So work very vigorously.

Hari-śauri: (to devotee) I can record that.

Prabhupāda: Hindi dekhiye, rupya toh udhar se le ata hai. (See, money is brought from there.) (break)

Rāmeśvara: I can show you this later. This is a copy of a newsletter that we have intercepted from the enemy camp. We have our newsletter, and they also have their newsletter. So we have gotten ourselves on their mailing list, so we can find out all their strategy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is fight these things are strategic . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . when there is fight there is no question of immoral or moral. "We must get victory," that's all. Kṛṣṇa did it. Kṛṣṇa asked . . .

Hari-śauri: According to this, they've made it legal, deprogramming.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, in some places.

Hari-śauri: They're making it legal that they can hold a person by force until they break him mentally.

Jagadīśa: Rāmeśvara? Are there many of our devotees who've been deprogrammed, or are they mostly other groups?

Rāmeśvara: Mostly others. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the business of the Book Trust has gotten very big. So the warehouse in Los Angeles has become too small. So we have gotten a new warehouse.

Prabhupāda: We have got a warehouse like Howrah Station.

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of the new building.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Looks very nice.

Rāmeśvara: It is not yet completed. They are building it just for us.

Prabhupāda: Dekhiye daktar sahab, kya le log sab kam hai? (Just see Dr. Saheb, what these boys are doing?)

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of the side of the building. This truck holds 20,000 copies of Bhagavad-gītā. It's being unloaded into the warehouse.

Prabhupāda: Main toh idhar baith baith ke hukum chalata aur wo sab karta hai. (I simply sit here and keep giving orders but they are doing the real work.)

Rāmeśvara: These are pictures of the inside as we are beginning to fill it up with books.

Prabhupāda: It is not yet filled up.

Rāmeśvara: It will be, very soon. This is part of it. We just moved in as I was leaving for India, so I had them shoot these pictures very quickly.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Rāmeśvara: And the former warehouse . . . we now need more space for the dioramas. We're going to start manufacturing them for all the temples. So we're going to use the former warehouse, that you once visited, for Bhāradvāja. He needs that much space because he's going to be making the dolls, then making a mold. Then once you have the mold, you can mass produce.

Prabhupāda: So that we can show in every center.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They'll make them out of a different substance so that they can be shipped, without breaking, all over the world.

Prabhupāda: What is the material?

Rāmeśvara: The original doll will be straw and clay. But then for mass production it will be fiberglass.

Prabhupāda: Fiberglass.

Rāmeśvara: Very hard and light. Not so heavy.

Prabhupāda: It is not . . . what is called? Burn? Fire? Inflammable?

Rāmeśvara: No, it is fireproof.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right. Then it is all right.

Rāmeśvara: It will be permanent. Even if you brush into it, it will not break. Very durable.

Prabhupāda: All right. You take rest. We shall go a little . . . (everyone leaves room) (break)

Hari-śauri: They've actually legalized it. There's one group, they're claiming that by deprogramming people they give them freedom of thought.

Prabhupāda: But you are . . . by deprogramming . . . they are thinking of Kṛṣṇa; you are checking. Where is the freedom of thought? Then you are illegal. They want to think of Kṛṣṇa, and you are checking. Then who is illegal? We have to put in that way, in their word, that "Then you have no right to check him about thinking of Kṛṣṇa." This will be our argument. Yes. How you can check? Let him think of Kṛṣṇa freely, because Kṛṣṇa wants. Then you have to take Bhagavad-gītā as illegal.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. If they condemn the whole thing, they have to condemn the whole, entire Hindu religion.

Prabhupāda: That's it. We have to fight in that way.

Hari-śauri: This is really separating us from these other cults, because most of these other cults, they have no defense, because their whole thing is a concoction. But for ourselves, we're actually practicing a standard way of worship, and we have so many testimonials from actual Hindus themselves.

Prabhupāda: No, outside scholars . . .

Hari-śauri: And from all the scholars and professors and everything.

Prabhupāda: "It is bona fide thinking, and you are checking."

Hari-śauri: What complicates it is that they get ex-cult members to come and testify that, "Yes, I was psychologically kidnapped. I was made into a robot just to think of God."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So that the whole thing's become a very . . .

Prabhupāda: We have to defend in our way. (end)