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770417 - Conversation A - Bombay

From Vanisource

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



770417R1-BOMBAY - April 17, 1977 - 50:27 Minutes


(Meeting with Dr. Sharma - from Russia)



Prabhupāda: You have seen this book, Hindi?

Dr. Sharma: Ah, yes.

Indian man (1): Dr. Sharma stayed here in our building only.

Indian man (2): Just opposite my room is my uncle's son-in-law. Son-in-law.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Indian man (2): He and his wife, both are doctors. They were in U.M. University in Moscow. They got their medical post there. Now he has come back to India for some research work. And my sister, his wife, is still in London. He will be going back in June, and we have requested him to come back to India and have . . . serve here. He has a desire to come back.

Prabhupāda: How long you were in Russia?

Dr. Sharma: I was there for six years. Over six years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Indian man (1): He speaks very fluent Russian also.

Prabhupāda: Ah, must speak. I have been also in Moscow. In Moscow, I went there. I was walking in that Red Square. Lenin's tomb is there. I was putting on the National Hotel.

Dr. Sharma: National Hotel. That is quite opposite. My brother requested me to see you personally, Mr. K. Gopalan from Hyderabad, the Joint Commissioner for Improvements.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He is in Moscow?

Dr. Sharma: No, no. He was in Hyderabad, Joint Commissioner for Religious Improvements, Mr. K. Gopalan. He asked me. He is my brother. He is my eldest brother . . . (indistinct) . . . he has asked me to see you personally. I have been sincerely endeavoring to see you for quite some time, but I did not have the fortune to see you. Today I am lucky.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals'. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense—

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

Go means cow, and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world: "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe, this material body . . . within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body. Now, you will find so many scholars, commentators on Bhagavad-gītā, but nobody understands this first line. This is the fact now going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). If you accept this first principle . . . you have to accept. Accept or deny, it doesn't matter. You are young man; I say that you will become old man. You accept or deny, it doesn't matter; you must be an old man. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it. "Never mind what body I am going to get next. It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy this body." This is animal civilization. The dog, at night barking, jumping, he is not able to understand what is next life, what is rebirth, what is his . . . he cannot understand. But a human being can understand. So if he is put into the darkness, then what is the difference between animal and human being? So this is the problem.

So we are trying our humble way to give this knowledge to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And our request to everyone is that, "You try to understand the philosophy and cooperate." There is a line in Caitanya-caritāmṛta:

śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-dayā karaha vicāra
vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra
(CC Adi 8.15)

It is not to be accepted blindly. (break) So you are in Russia, educated young man. You can do something. Everyone can do something.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in Bhārata-bhūmi, especially in high family, it is the duty of every Indian to understand this sublime knowledge and distribute it to the world. Para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Because we have got this knowledge, everything. This knowledge you cannot have anywhere. Therefore scholarly people, man or elderly persons, many, they are accepting our books very nicely. In foreign country—and Bhāgavata, it is not their religious book—we are selling . . . in Russia also we have got copies. What is that institution, they have ordered?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It might be named in Russian. It's the international institution which orders books.

Dr. Sharma: That is international library of the RSSR. That is . . . Huliyansa He's the director. I have seen that letter with their office. They asked me to translate it. I translated that letter not long ago. And I passed it on, request. So I am aware of what they are doing, and I know what they do not do also. Because I not only feel the heartbeat of pulse of the people of India, but I feel the pulse of the heartbeat in Communist countries as well. I am very happy that I am here, after having missed the name of Lord Nārāyaṇa for six years in Soviet Union, where the people chant only Lenin's name. It is being duly compensated . . . (indistinct) . . . you made this possible. I have gone through ten volumes of your book that you have written. They are really . . .

Prabhupāda: Which book? Bhāgavatam?

Indian man (2): Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Caitanya . . .

Dr. Sharma: So I've been reading the commentary after commentary. I enjoyed them. It was full of honey and nectar and knowledge to people who are insignificant and idiots like me. (Prabhupāda laughs) I enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu also presented Himself as idiot number one. (laughs) He said to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī asked Him that "You are a sannyāsī. You do not read Vedānta and You chant and dance. What is this?" So He answered, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana. "My guru found Me a fool number one, so he has chastised Me, 'You rascal, You are fool. You cannot read Vedānta. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' " (laughter) So it is good that we remain as fools and idiot. Then we can make progress. And if we think, "Oh, I know everything," then finished. It is a good attitude. Guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana.

Dr. Sharma: Śāsana means punishment, to check.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We get very much happy when our Guru Mahārāja chastises us. So you are already reading our books. So let us cooperate, and I think if you will preach systematically, the Russian people, they are intelligent, they will appreciate it.

Dr. Sharma: They have an interest, an innate interest, to know about these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to get something from India. So why not give this?

Dr. Sharma: For many years they have been living like frogs in a well, kūpa-stha-maṇḍūka. Of late they are realizing they have got to come out of this. When I was . . . many people used to come to me. I used to tell them about Hindu religion and yoga, etcetera. They have an innate interest for this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People are everywhere good. Simply some politicians, they make them bad.

Dr. Sharma: The top politicians, they come in the way. They stop these things. They had a yoga class institute set up in the Moscow University, and when it came to bhakti-yoga, they realized that spiritualism's involved. So at the earliest they want to get rid of this.

Prabhupāda: One book is published, what is that, "Religion"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anthology.

Prabhupāda: Anthology. So in that book they have given quotation from my books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It's just come out.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice.

Dr. Sharma: One day they removed the professor the department of Russian, for arguing in favor(?) of Indian yoga, and he was practicing it and teaching the people. And they got rid of it.

Prabhupāda: So when they get the information . . .

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
(BG 6.47)

There is book.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the book, Words of the World Religions, and on the part . . . the section is entitled "Kṛṣṇa," and on the part "Kṛṣṇa," "From Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda." Very nice.

Dr. Sharma: This publication is from States or Russia?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is published from the United States.

Prabhupāda: Anthology of Religions of the World.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So your book is considered an authoritative book on the Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They have given nice description of bhakti-yoga. So if you want, we can give you some sets of books for reading and discussing amongst your friends.

Dr. Sharma: Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can select all any number of books you want. Let them read and understand.

Indian man (2): He is good at translating also. He could translate our books.

Prabhupāda: If you kindly do that, you can. That will be a great service.

Indian man(2): Into Russian he can translate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And we can print those.

Indian man (1): Somebody has to check it again? Someone else has to do the corrections?

Prabhupāda: No . . .

Indian man (1): (indistinct) . . . you can discuss it with everyone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which book would you like to have translated into Russian, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That he can select. You can see my books, and whichever you want to begin first. That will be great service. But actual communism, what is called, socialism, is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Indian man (2): Real socialism in there in Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: In the Seventh Canto. That in your house if there is even a snake, see that he is not starving. This . . . just see. If there is a lizard, if there is a snake, then see that he is not starving. You must give him food. Where is that communism?

Indian man (1): We appreciate communism as it stands now or socialism, what they call it?

Prabhupāda: No. Our communism is that Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ yāḥ (BG 14.4): "In every species of life, as many forms of life are there, material nature is their mother and I am the seed-giving father." So everyone is Kṛṣṇa's son, and everything is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), everything is Kṛṣṇa's property. Every son has got the right to enjoy the property of the father. This is our . . .

Indian man (1): In the essence of Communism the very fact of existence of God itself is denied.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Indian man (1): The existence of God itself is questioned or denied in the Communism as it is practised . . .

Prabhupāda: They may deny so many things foolishly, but that is not the fact.

Indian man (1): We understand. But even to such peoples, Communism, the word itself shows it is not accepting God. Then why we should interpret that Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whatever we have, is . . .

Prabhupāda: They may not accept God, but they are sons of God. You may become a madman—you don't accept your father—that does not mean that you have no father.

Guest (1): But he is a madman.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so madman, that should be treated. That is humanity. A madman, he has become mad, and "Get him out." No. Human society's duty is to treat him to become a sane man.

Indian man (1): And that type of man requires a special treatment.

Prabhupāda: Yes, a special treatment . . .

Indian man (1): So the books which you have written for other people . . .

Prabhupāda: No. You don't require to read book. We simply say that, "You come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." This is the treatment. These boys, foreigners, they have come to me not by reading my book. First of all I invited him, "Sit down, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam." And then gradually. This is the general treatment.

Dr. Sharma: The so-called Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera, it is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discoveries, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: For example, my due respect for the medical profession, into which fortunately and unfortunately . . . (indistinct) . . . given to this category, I have to tell this. Throughout the world not the best genetician doctor can prove today the soul of soul is the child of man. Nobody can tell who is the father, medical profession. The real existence of his being is taken as sure faith. If the mother says, "Call so-and-so as father . . . (indistinct) . . ." He takes it for granted, faith, he . . . (indistinct) . . . praise the mother and calls so-and-so his father. Because he trusts.

Prabhupāda: Mother is called father?

Indian man (2): No. Mother is trusted to take the father. Identity of father is known through the mother, not through any other method.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that even the best genecists in the world who are teaching genetics, they cannot actually determine who is the father based on genetics. The only actual thing is the mother's saying.

Dr. Sharma: Faith.

Prabhupāda: That, we give the example.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He is a doctor, and he is stating that he knows for a fact that these geneticists, they are bluffing. Actually they cannot say.

Dr. Sharma: So one has to take the words of the guru, paramparā.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in our Hindu society there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, so that everyone knows that, "This man is this man's father." That is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. And especially in brāhmaṇa family, if there is no garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, immediately he becomes a śūdra, because cannot give real identity of the father.

Dr. Sharma: It is most unfortunate that in West and elsewhere, I have found the people with a great interest and enthusiasm maintain a pedigree chart of the Pomeranian and Alsation dog in their house.

Prabhupāda: This is gotra.

Dr. Sharma: Yes. They maintain a pedigree chart of Alsation dogs and Pomeranian dogs in their houses.

Prabhupāda: Our this gotra . . .

Indian man (2): Unfortunately, the human being they don't keep it. It is only the dogs they keep in Western countries.

Prabhupāda: Dogs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is saying that just like with breeding of dogs or any animals, they keep a pedigree chart: "Here is the father, here is the father," pedigree. But with human beings they don't bother to do this. With the animals they are doing. Just like with our cows . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say animal civilization. It is animal civilization. They are interested with animals.

Dr. Sharma: Previously what . . . (indistinct) . . . says, (Sanskrit). His credentials are being presented with for another man only to identify oneself. In other words, it's a passport to being mentally carried by a man. And it's being just passed on to another man. Nowadays of late in some of the countries in application forms, they are demanding that they should not ask father's name because many of them do not know. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is insanity.

Dr. Sharma: And this type of world, which is full of temporal pleasures and materialistic pleasures, they are being carried away and misguided.

Prabhupāda: So that is stated in the Śrīmad . . . na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are interested only in the external nature, bahir-artha. They have no sense of understanding what is within the body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. So the leaders are blind, and they are leading blind men. Society is in chaotic condition. You are going?

Indian man (1): So that I will take my friend home. . . . (indistinct) . . . I will come again some other time.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Indian man (2): Gurujī, I am no jasmine. I am only a thread. But when the thread is entwined with the jasmine, even if the jasmine withers and it dries up, this twine still maintains the smell of the jasmine. I am grateful to God that He has given me an opportunity to meet you all and be here . . .

Prabhupāda: So it is God's desire . . .

Indian man (2): And make myself worthy of the twine.

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that you have come. So kindly take some responsibility. You, as far as possible, translate our books in Russian and . . .

Indian man (2): I will try my best.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: Would it be more practical if you write a separate booklet or a pamphlet for Russians who have never heard about God or the very existence of God as Kṛṣṇa? These books are so deep, unless they are really . . .

Prabhupāda: That we have already sent, Easy Journey to Other Planets.

Dr. Sharma: In Russian language?

Prabhupāda: You have got this copy?

Dr. Sharma: The Russians, they are all, they are not a very God . . . (indistinct) . . . people. Their government is standing in the way.

Indian man (2): The younger generation, as you are presenting, of India and the developing countries it's okay. In some name or another they have known the existence of God, whether they call Him Christ or Kṛṣṇa. We can convince them later. But the very fact that they have denied the acceptance, that requires a special treatment. They are madmen, as you call it. So you should make something different as madman requires special treatment. Even I find it very difficult to go through Prabhupāda's books and understand it . . .

Prabhupāda: Then one thing, very commonsense reason . . .

Dr. Sharma: Common sense is not common. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense . . . just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī (SB 1.10.4). From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human . . . everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible. So so many living entities are coming from the material nature, and the offsprings are there. Then who is the father? And the father is there. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4): "I am." So no sane man can deny existence of God. That is not possible. As soon as you deny the existence of God, means you are insane. You require treatment. There is no doubt. This is common sense. So many lives are coming from the earth, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Either earth, water, air, there is life. They are coming. And the children are there, mother is there. Should you not inquire who is the father? If you say without father they have come, that is foolishness, madness. Immediately, he's mad. So you cannot deny the existence. If you deny, then you are mad. That is the sign of insanity. They require treatment. That is explained in one Bengali poetry:

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya
(Prema-vivarta)

As a person ghostly-haunted, as he speaks all nonsense, similarly, when a living entity becomes bewildered by māyā, he speaks all nonsense.

prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
kartāham iti manyate
(BG 3.27)

This is the fact. You cannot deny the existence of God. And God is personally speaking, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). So anyone denying the existence of God, he is a madman. He requires treatment. That is the problem. There is no institutional asylum for these madmen. And we are trying to establish this asylum. Now it is up to them to come to this asylum and take treatment. Otherwise nobody can deny the existence of God. It is not possible.

Indian man (2): No, my point is everyone has some special strategy, because one third of the total population the world is Communist. Should not there be a special strategy to enter in their own hearts?

Prabhupāda: This is special strategy, that as far as possible give them, those who are educated, read then, give them chance to read. And those who are not, let them come, and music and dance. Everyone likes to do this. And take prasādam, feast, lecture. Common sense.

Indian man (2): Politic of other . . .

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big . . .? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I don't know if this is the right volume. It's the only one that resembles. I can't read Russian, so I don't know if that's the . . .

Prabhupāda: Is that Russian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one book in Russian.

Prabhupāda: So in this way smaller books we can publish. (break) . . . to Other Planets, similarly.

Indian man (2): How long did you stay in Moscow?

Prabhupāda: About ten days.

Indian man (2): Was it in any way break the . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man (2): Was it possible to start some initially some followers . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we started with one, two Russian young boys. They are my śiṣyas. What is the name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: But they are holding classes privately.

Dr. Sharma: Are they inviting . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I saw the Russian people, they are very nice. They are as good as these, all others. And they are not happy.

Indian man (2): They have to preach very secretly. They have to do very secretly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is very awful life. Terrorism. This is not good life.

Indian man (2): You are allowed to move freely, or there are restrictions for your movement?

Prabhupāda: No. We are not making any publicly movement. But that boy, in his private capacity, is reading Bhagavad-gītā. So it has to be done like that, privately.

Dr. Sharma: Well, if only a book has got to be introduced into Soviet Union, it has got to be approved by the government. Otherwise it cannot go in for circulation. So it comes to the ministerial level then—ask somebody, Minister of India, Consulate of India, asked for this, or the Indian Embassy to do it in Moscow.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like the librarian, that library has ordered. So that will be discussed.

Dr. Sharma: But the Russians are very cunning people. They may order books from the ISKCON from here, to the Soviet Union, and it be will kept in the library, but no man could reach it. It will be kept only for a certain people only.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The scholars, for research scholars.

Dr. Sharma: Not only for research scholars. Only that type of research scholars who have got the favor of the government.

Indian man (2): Even they worship Rāma, they take the Kṛṣṇa's name, and if they go through it, and if they are interested, they will understand what it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (2): If it goes to the top people, let it go. In this way, let it go. But who has to make the attempts? Not Hare Kṛṣṇa Society. Only government only can do it. It's a private society.

Dr. Sharma: No, no. Private society can do it. Private society can write a book, they can take it to the government, they can get it in its function in the embassy in Moscow, to be released to be given to some of the people there in which the cultural society exists, so-called religious or cultural or cultural society. We can approach them as well and introduce some books there.

Indian man (2): And that means Indian government has to accept first.

Dr. Sharma: No, it has nothing to do with the Indian government accepting. When once we request somebody in the cultural society, and the Indian embassy governs as a function, and we'll deliver lecture and we invite some of the Russians, we will give it to them also.

Prabhupāda: We can send some of our scientist disciples to prove scientifically there is God. If you can arrange, I can send my scientist disciples.

Dr. Sharma: For that they require a visa.

Prabhupāda: Visa, of course, we can . . .

Dr. Sharma: They will ask for this visa. That once they come to know that scientifically they want to prove the existence of God, etcetera, etcetera, they may have some problems in getting a visa. So this man has been asking . . .

Prabhupāda: That means they restrict also everyone to speak about God.

Dr. Sharma: They restrict everything.

Prabhupāda: So then it is very difficult.

Indian man (2): Only the government can do it. Any government, even if it is a small country. Therefore I said political power plays an important role in this to one-third populations. Whether it is Nepal, whether it is in India, in the present circumstances, one should meet on a ambassadorial level. And if not accepted by the government, democratic governments can have some functions just like in those cultural societies in a democratic country can be propogated. We can have a small function and speak to the Prime Minister.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One group that can go is our theater group.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, that may be right. Theater group go to show that it is an Indian culture program and try to sell the most of this Bhagavad-gītā and Rāmāyaṇa and Bhāgavatam. Because they are themselves, Russians, have come with a troupe and played Rāmāyaṇa in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: And that they do that only exist on the political gimmick to show their Indo-Soviet relations, to increase it. We could send some of the people from here . . .

Prabhupāda: You note it. We shall give stress. We can make Caitanya-līlā, Kṛṣṇa-līlā, like that. We have got everything.

Dr. Sharma: We can make some of the dialogues . . .

Indian man (2): If we include more Indians or associate Lata Mangeskar or such type of people it will have a greater effect. When those people are in their own field, and the philosophy is Hare Kṛṣṇa, but . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Russia nobody knows them. In Russia, the local people . . . the people here are not famous in Russia. They are famous here in India.

Indian man (2): Raj Kapoor and Lata Mangeskar . . . (indistinct) . . . as we have been understood, made to understand in Russia, India is represented by three persons: Nehru, Raj Kapoor and Lata. That is wanted and propagated in all these years, thirty years of Indo-Soviet . . .

Dr. Sharma: But I do not want to bring in Raj Kapoors and Lata Mangeskars. We are seriously acting in regard to Lord Kṛṣṇa. I think these people with the God's face, they could themselves very efficiently do these things, without the interference of these people. I think we have valid draft for a drama, and educate the common man to understand that God, and at the same time depicting the life history of Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-līlā can be played very nicely.

Dr. Sharma: And it is maintained at a very remarkable level standard. Performance is very good. This could definitely go in as an Indo-Soviet cultural group, and it would be really educating the masses in no time. It is almost as good as showing them a film show or a cinema.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is the government has got the cultural department. So they will patronize Lata Mangeskar, but they will not give us money to go there.

Indian man (2): That is I am telling. And Lata Mangeskar associated with ISKCON's . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I will say, not Lata Mangeskar, any dancing party, they will patronize. But if we go for preaching Bhagavad-gītā . . .

Dr. Sharma: No, we have to do it in a way that it has (Hindi). We have to take the (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they understand, they can do it.

Dr. Sharma: And we are going to teach something good to somebody.

Prabhupāda: But still, even government does not help, we can spend for it. So what is to be done? If you can arrange, we can send it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will you be returning to Russia just now? Or what is your program?

Dr. Sharma: My program is in doldrums at present. I am going to be here up till June. In June I intend going to Britain for some time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: London?

Dr. Sharma: Yes, London.

Prabhupāda: So you see our temple there.

Dr. Sharma: Yeah, I have been to your temple in Buffalo. I was in your temple in Winnipeg, Canada.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those are very small.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, small ones. But Winnipeg is all . . . Buffalo was all right, but also small, but very well maintained, very well maintained. In London I haven't gone, because I stayed far away from the city.

Prabhupāda: We have got two temples in London: one in the city, and one in the border of London . . . (indistinct) . . . that is very big temple. Seventeen acres of land. George Harrison has given us that property.

Guests: (indistinct, talking about George Harrison between them; confusing George Harrison and Rex Harrison)

Dr. Sharma: No, you are mistaken. George Harrison is a different. Rex Harrison. Rex Harrison is a Hollywood and British actor.

Prabhupāda: George Harrison of the Beatle group.

Dr. Sharma: Beatle group, oh. Rex Harrison is an actor . . .

Indian man (2): They are singers.

Dr. Sharma: No, that's an entirely different place. Because Harrison is more popular in Europe and West than Lata Mangeskar . . . (indistinct) . . . Raj Kapoor they know. They know, I think more than Jawaharlal Nehru. Raj Kapoor is a most popular man in Soviet Union because of his films. And second is Jawaharlal Nehru. So they can make anybody popular or unpopular. Because there is only one paper. They write whatever they want. Unfortunately, the whole thing is in the hands of those . . . (indistinct) . . . the Politburo. They publish whatever they want. So this type of popularity is not real popularity. You cannot take the face value popularity. So I think this type of creating a drama or taking a film for educating about God, and then there will be some sort of a scientific discourse as if intellectual level that . . .

Prabhupāda: Scientific research . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How about that new film that Yadubara has just made? That's presenting everything as seemingly unreligious way. What is it called?

Yadubara: A Spark of Life

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A Spark of Life it's called. A new film. Are you going to be showing it here tonight, Yadubara?

Yadubara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe we could see it. That would be nice.

Dr. Sharma: I would like to know some such film they would popularize these things.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you show some film? Is it possible now?

Yadubara: To show it now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yadubara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You show.

Dr. Sharma: Because I have been seeing some of the films in the temple shown here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are you going to show it tonight also?

Yadubara: Yes. Should I get the projector now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You want to see it now?

Dr. Sharma: If they are going to show it to all the people this evening in the temple, I will go to the temple and see it with the rest of them.

Prabhupāda: You are going to show in the temple?

Yadubara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Dr. Sharma: I will come and see it. Because these are the things, with the films and some sort of opera or some sort of . . .

Prabhupāda: So I think this dramatic party is practical. Immediately you can do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśa Mahārāja, he speaks Russian also. So he can go with them if they go for a short time. He was there in Moscow for some time.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So you keep Mr. Sharma's address, and you suggest some letters. Try to do something with these Communists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Prabhupāda: So some prasādam. (Hindi) (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa gives prasādam) (break) (Hindi conversation) Chief Minister, Mr. Chavan, he has highly recommended our movement. (Hindi) It is bona fide religion. (Hindi) So we are trying to distribute the sublime knowledge of India—Kṛṣṇa knowledge, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So (Hindi). Mr. Rajda also. (Hindi) (end)