770418 - Conversation A - Bombay
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hmm. Thank you. (Bengali)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I came yesterday from Manipur, er, from Calcutta, came day before yesterday. I stayed one night in Calcutta. The temple is nice. They have a smaller number of devotees in Calcutta now, but it's very conducive, very cooperative, so the atmosphere was very nice. I gave a lecture.
Prabhupāda: That is all right. Small number is all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śatadhanya Mahārāja is the in-charge there.
Prabhupāda: Simply congestion is no good. So you are going to Kartikeya's house?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Kartikeya's house?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, today. They came yesterday. He's very learned, and he had a number of degrees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many degrees did he have?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he had, honorary, about some fourteen, fifteen Ph.D. degrees.
Prabhupāda: Ph.D. genuine?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some are honorary, but he is from Oxford and Cambridge, very renowned scholar.
Mādhava: He's a chemist.
Prabhupāda: He's a chemist.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So he's very old. He's about seventy-three years old. And he had a genuine desire to be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he'll be a devotee. So he invited us to come and speak to him today on . . . I'm going to speak on science and Kṛṣṇa consciousness today.
Prabhupāda: A good opportunity.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he expressed very frankly and very honestly . . . In fact, Girirāja was talking to . . . (indistinct) . . . yesterday, Girirāja and myself, and every moment, every word, every mood that he expressed was a genuine example of how this material world, we are suffering so much. He said that he had everything in life that he wanted to, in his material possession. He has all the qualifications, and he represented national and international levels, the different planning commissions, the chairman of so many organizations, but he said . . .
Prabhupāda: What is his age?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's seventy-three years old. He's very old, but still, he's very active, in good health. And he expressed that he's missing something. So we told that it is right time for to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he comes to a point that he wanted to come and stay in the temple for a week just to learn more and try to get away from all the . . .
Prabhupāda: So this is very nice. Bring him and give him a nice accommodation.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he came here yesterday.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the lift wasn't working, so he couldn't come upstairs. That's why Kartikeya left early, because he was waiting downstairs.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kartikeya brought him, actually. They live in the same house, apartment complex, downstairs, this man. And at one point he expressed that he had a great attachment for his wife, and his wife died about three years ago because of cancer. So since that time he said that he finds no peace, and he's looking . . .
Prabhupāda: He has no children? He has no children?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We didn't talk about children . . .
Prabhupāda: No, no . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . but I should say he's alone. He said he lives alone.
Prabhupāda: Let him come here. Organize all other scientists.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to request him to become a member of Bhaktivedanta Institute and put his name and degrees . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be little impressive.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So he agreed or not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm going to request him today. I made a little preaching in Manipur. I took a Fairchild, our movies, all the Hare Kṛṣṇa movies, from Calcutta. I borrowed for a week.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took that little Fairchild projector.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Took the projector. And it has been raining so much, from Calcutta, Assam and Manipur, it's almost flooded for the last three weeks, almost continuous rain.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Looks like the rainy season has come, but very untimely, a little too early. But it has been almost flooded.
Prabhupāda: It is cool now.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. But now the rain has subsided now. It's very cool. Calcutta was very pleasant. It's very comfortable. (laughs) And Manipur is especially nice because . . .
Prabhupāda: It is good that so much rain has fallen.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, because there was some scarcity of water just a few weeks ago, but now it is plenty of water.
Prabhupāda: This is due to Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I remember Prabhupāda saying that if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, rain will fall.
Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I also made about five devotees in Manipur. I was thinking of bringing in Bombay to get trained up so that I can take in south of Manipur.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I decided not to take them at this time because I am coming back in September. And at that time I will bring. Before I gave them what to do and . . .
Prabhupāda: They are coming or not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Bombay? Yeah, they will come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When will they come?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In September.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why not earlier?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't want to bring them earlier because . . .
Prabhupāda: All right. That is all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . I thought they needed some time to adjust. And these children, they all have graduates. They're all B.A.'s, and their parents approached me to take care of them at some time. Their members from their families were there, about four brothers. So they say they can spare one from their family. So I'm going to make an attempt when I come back and go all the villages in Manipur—it is small place, so I can go all of them—and I can take one, one from each family, and . . .
Prabhupāda: Train him . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: . . . to become leader there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was your program, to ask each family to give one of their sons.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Manipur is especially . . . Once I go to the family, and the family and the son, they agree, then I have . . . we have some authority on them to say in the future if the boy is happening not to following properly . . . And it is better that way, to have the agreement from the parents also, so that where they are fully engaged for lifelong, not just coming for some time and . . .
Prabhupāda: No. No.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . go away. I don't want to produce like that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the opposite of the deprogramming problem in America. In America we have to take them forcibly from their . . .
Prabhupāda: Not forcibly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they are coming voluntarily, but, I mean, the parents are resisting. But here the parents are agreeing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found very interesting in the villages. I thought . . . I was planning to make programs very extensively in the week, but because of rain, it was . . .
Prabhupāda: In Manipur also there is rain.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, rained so much. But anyway, the rain stopped in the last few days, so I made a few shows in the village. So they didn't even have electricity, so they hired this generator, and then I showed the white screen, and all the villages, nineteen villages, they came in no time. So I had about nine hundred, nine hundred in two shows. And they wanted to see more, the movies. And then they very appreciated. They wanted to join.
Prabhupāda: So let them join.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the Chief Minister, the Chief Minister, they heard that I have brought this machine from . . . So they came personally and wanted to see. Especially his wife. His wife came. The Chief Minister's wife came, and she heard that I have brought this machine, so they wanted to see the Hare Kṛṣṇa movie. So I had to make two shows that night—one in the village, one in the Chief Minister's house. And a Life Member, he took special interest in showing these things. So I told him, "When I come back I'll bring one Fairchild from Manipur and all the movies, so that you can go . . ."
Prabhupāda: Your Manipur is being intimately connected with our movement.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They liked it very much, especially . . . Everybody wants to see the devotees coming to Manipur, but the Home Ministry is giving us little difficulty in getting the permit. All the Manipuris, including the Chief Minister, they all want to have especially American devotees in Manipur. They want to see. But . . .
Prabhupāda: If the Home Minister is changed now . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I was told that this Karan Singh is very favorable.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he just gave us his house in Kashmir for using.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So then it will be a very good time for . . .
Prabhupāda: He is not Home Minister.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not the Home Minister.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, he's the Home Mi . . .? Oh. So we can . . .
Prabhupāda: But we can influence him.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in any case, I made a fresh application for September, and I'm going to request our Life Member in Manipur along with the Chief Minister and the members of Parliament to try their best so that we get a permit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many people did you apply for?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fifteen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifteen. For September. What part of the month?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Second week, around second week.
Prabhupāda: Due to this rain, they'll have good food . . . (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . very comfortable for traveling. It's very good for the crops. And I also have two offers of land in Manipur to build a temple, Hare Kṛṣṇa temple, from two places. One is right in the middle of the town, and one is little away, about seventeen miles. And I'll show you the map, the place. It's . . . lot of it is sort of competitor. They wanted a temple built in one of these lands that they offered, so the two groups are . . .
Prabhupāda: If people cooperate, we can have two temples. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually the land, the second land, it is on the hillside. From there you can see the whole of Manipur, because it is . . . The land is like this . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scenery's just beautiful. It's all on the foothills, and it's very charming, with the banyan trees and the monkeys, four classes of monkeys.
Prabhupāda: They are receptive.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. Very friendly. They're not like monkeys in . . . (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vṛndāvana.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: These monkeys are very friendly. They wait until they are given. They don't just steal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana they're a problem now.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were so enthusiastic that they even gave me a blueprint of the map of Manipur to show Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is the . . . Here is the capital, here, in the middle, Imphal. And the one is little smaller, in Imphal, in the capital. And it is also very close to the Govinda Temple that I was describing. And there is a mūrti of Hanumān that the people worship there in this . . . It's just like little forest. In the middle of this forest there is a small, little temple. There they worship Hanumān.
Prabhupāda: Govindajī Temple?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Govindajī's temple is just in front.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it is right in the middle of the center, this place, this forest?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's not in the middle. It's on the side, one of the sides of the . . . And there's a river, this Imphal River. It almost surrounds this little forest. And this forest is full of monkeys and so many birds, and they are very natural. It is about seven acres. It's not very big. Seven acres of land.
Prabhupāda: Seven acres.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven acres is a big plot.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. And other one is here. lt's called Vishnupur. Vishnupur is . . . There was a Viṣṇu temple. It was constructed in fourteen hundred and . . . about 502 years ago, a temple. The temple is still there. It was built by a king called Kyamba in Manipur about that time. And he worshiped this Viṣṇu, and that place is called Vishnupur, that Viṣṇu. And this is . . . Actually this is a nicer place. That is ten acres. But this is a little away from the town, but the congregation is very good here. Comes from all places, from Burma . . .
Prabhupāda: How many miles?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: How many miles from Imphal? Seventeen. One-seven.
Prabhupāda: Not many miles.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, it's not too far. And this land they are donating to us.
Prabhupāda: They have done already?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to donate this to ISKCON to build a temple, ISKCON Hare Kṛṣṇa temple.
Prabhupāda: So if you can pick up one person from family, then we can do immediately.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually they have a committee, and this land actually is meant for . . . It is already called . . . already reserved for temple purposes from the government of Manipur.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they can actually . . . The committee . . . The members of the committee told me that this was within their power. So whatever they do is final. So that's . . .
Prabhupāda: Maybe, but for management if we have to send foreigners, there are so many difficulties. But if the local people are trained up to our philosophy and mode of life, then there is no difficulty.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And this place actually is the place where Govinda-nirpam(?) . . . At the time of this Govinda temple it was started from here initially, from this place. And the Govinda temple moved to Imphal later on. But the king started here. This is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission to Manipur, started from here, this Vishnupur, and later on moved by the king to the capital. So it is some sort of a historical place for . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . where Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are ready.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And here is also . . .
Prabhupāda: When we go, we shall . . . (indistinct) . . . all these place . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: . . . and see what can be done.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I also suggested that, that Śrīla Prabhupāda visits the different sites.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who's in control of the other place?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other place is a committee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They also want to give us the land?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We could take both pieces.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like there's so many devotees there that it wouldn't be difficult to . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . train up the local men as managers.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have a big lake in Manipur. It is very big. And this is the biggest lake in Assam, in Manipur, and since it is surrounded by all hills, so when there is a lake it looks like a bowl, and you can see this lake just from this place. It is very near.
Prabhupāda: Very nice water?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Very beautiful, and there are many plants, the water plants, flowers, lilies and . . . And there are, surrounding area, a lot of sprouts and many . . . We have these tamāla trees on the hillside. It is hillside. And these big jackfruits trees, jackfruits, and pippalas, and . . .
Prabhupāda: Jackfruit is very nice, both unripe and ripened. The . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is full of jackfruits, this Vishnupur.
Prabhupāda: . . . jackfruit is very nutritious, very palatable, both ripe and unripe.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pineapple is also very nice.
Prabhupāda: Pineapple also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And we also have some sandon(?) trees.
Prabhupāda: You can simply live on jackfruit. It is so nice. And mango must be there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, there are many mangoes.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Paradise.
Prabhupāda: Season time, this mango and jackfruit is sufficient food. And little milk.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also told me that there are also some sandon(?) trees, like sandalwood and some other sandal on the hillside.
Prabhupāda: Sandalwood, no?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Here. But I didn't see it, that it actually grows there. And it is all these nice hills, beautiful scenery.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you leave there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) Very beautiful, natural scenery. And the climate is very mild.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to wait until September. He's giving so many attractive points.
Prabhupāda: No, heat we can accept very well. What is that? He can accept in behalf. So if they are eager to give, so make a committee, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, yourself and some other Indian. You can take immediately.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Make a subcommittee, taking sensibly . . . Three, four men, subcommittee. We can have it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your idea is to have them give it over before we go there?
Prabhupāda: Why not? (Bengali) If somebody is giving, take it. Then you develop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can we write them like that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. I can write to these men. And they have told me that they'll convey this message, and just see what . . .
Prabhupāda: Immediately we can form three-, four-man committee—my name, your name, Gopāla, and some other people. In this way develop.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara's name.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara, myself, Gopāla . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three, that's all.
Prabhupāda: So find out some . . . When something is offered, take it. Then we shall see how to utilize it. (Bengali) It is property, but it is being offered. Let us take it. You can pick up these boys from family.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Train them, and they will manage under our direction.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So next time, when I come back, I have a plan to go to all the villages with the slide show, or with the movies . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . and I'm going to request that . . .
Prabhupāda: Each family . . .
Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . to give one family, one member.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, they are very attracted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So let them be trained up and then go there and follow our instruction and develop. In the meantime you can take it. The Lord Clyde, a crewman in the ship, he developed a British Empire in India, organization. He's an insignificant person; he established British Empire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Clyde.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From there we can also go to Burma.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: 'Cause that's the neighbor. It's only about ten miles from Manipur. It's close to Mandalay. Used to be . . . The kings of Manipur used to invade this Burma, especially Mandalay, to fight. So we can go to Burma from there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Dr. Sharma must have this Hare Krishna Land as the address.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is someone from here?
Prabhupāda: Come on. Give him one seat there.
Dr. Sharma: No, I will be comfortable here.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. He is Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara.
Dr. Sharma: I have met him.
Prabhupāda: He has sacrificed everything for developing this Institution.
- prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā
- śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā
- etāvaj janma-sāphalyaṁ
- dehinām iha dehiṣu
- (SB 10.22.35)
The birth of human life should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service by life, by money, by intelligence, by words. Four, three—at least one.
- prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā
- śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā
- etāvaj janma-sāphalyaṁ
- dehinām iha dehiṣu
So did you read that book?
Dr. Sharma: Yes, I did. The conversation of the Professor Kotovsky is very interesting. But I liked one particular aspect of it. For the West has been almost ridiculing the evils of praising the ordinary animal cult(?). For them it is ordinary; for us it is extraordinary. So there is a lot of difference in the . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: They do not know the value of the animals.
Dr. Sharma: Yes. They do not know. The real principle behind the praying to a tree or going round the tree or praying to stones or praying to idol worship, it signifies how grateful we are to the nature that is going around created by God. Even to go around the tree, the tree which happens to give the leaves, the shelter, the fruits, the roots, the bark of the tree—it has got so bulk of the nature created by God. So we are grateful to these things, and it shows how grateful we are to things, it shows a lot of gratitude we have. But that aspect of it is not being appreciated. Only . . . (indistinct) . . . are being taken in.
Prabhupāda: They have not been educated. Therefore, actually speaking, there is no real knowledge outside India. Mūḍha.
Dr. Sharma: Even the smallpox vaccination that was discovered by Edward Jenner in 1786, it was only from the cow pox serum they discovered. The first vaccination he used on his own son. At that time no . . . (indistinct) . . . People adhered to the Hinduism. People who were living with the cows, they were not affected by smallpox; though the people did not have a cow in the house, they were affected the most. So it protects from cow pox, smallpox.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cow protection protects us from so many infectious disease.
Dr. Sharma: Even the cows, they have habit to take the weeds along the banks of the river. The iodine content of the grass is so high. It has got iodine in that. So if we smear cow dung on the floor, it is said it is an obnoxious thing, whereas tincture of iodine is sold in the shops . . . (indistinct) . . . I'm sure that it is sold very well. It is most unfortunate that we do not appreciate the nature itself is giving us aids.
Prabhupāda: We take it seriously, because Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is our authority. He says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya: "You must give protection to the cows." This is authority.
Dr. Sharma: When we talk about civil liberties and rights in democratic countries today, but we have a right to live on this planet. Why should we differate the right of another animal which cannot express itself?
Prabhupāda: They are . . . They are . . . They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.
Dr. Sharma: They talk about killing of animals for wants of survival. Darwin's case has been brought in, put in, survival, struggle for existence. I mean to have a talk with Doctor yesterday. Even the key of the evolution theory by Darwin, he is not feeling itself. It has lots of blemishes.
Prabhupāda: He has described in his book, Darwinism. What? What you have described?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is . . . His knowledge is based on some simple speculation.
Prabhupāda: Speculation. It is not sound knowledge.
Dr. Sharma: He says that the giraffe has got a very lengthy neck because there was no grass on the floor. He had to reach the branches and boughs of a tree for the leaves. So he had a lengthy neck.
Prabhupāda: So who made this arrangement?
Dr. Sharma: It was written by Darwin, the great man.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right, but next question will be, "Who made his neck so long? Why not your neck?"
Dr. Sharma: Then Darwin forgot there are millions of other herbivores living on the planet.
Prabhupāda: He's a nonsense.
Dr. Sharma: They did not develop a big neck. Only giraffe developed, because Darwin wanted it.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Therefore he's a nonsense. He has . . .
Dr. Sharma: (indistinct) . . . that we all learn by heart, we are being obsessed by our own thing. We don't seem to observe the creed of life.
Prabhupāda: Less intelligent. Therefore it is our duty to educate them, out of sympathy. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Paścimera loka saba mūḍha anācāra (CC Adi 10.89): "The Western peoples, they are mūḍhas and anācāras." So this mission is paropakāra, to give them knowledge and how to become civilized. This is the mission.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And men like Dr. Sharma can help us a lot.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is medical doctor, medical field. He can write some articles on especially these problems in biochemistry and the medicinal aspects. One can do a lot.
Prabhupāda: You have seen his small booklet?
Dr. Sharma: I read it.
Prabhupāda: Scientific Basis of . . .
Dr. Sharma: Yes. It's very interesting. I liked it.
Prabhupāda: So if you translate some of these small books, we can publish.
Dr. Sharma: Knowledgewise, I am a big man. I am myself that mūḍha still. But still I know that . . . (indistinct) . . . I'll do my might.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good qualification, to remain humble and try to do something.
Dr. Sharma: And I'm making this statement because knowing the word modesty. I do not know what it is. I am a man full of ego, unfortunately.
Prabhupāda: Tṛṇād api sunīcena . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given this slogan, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā, amāninā mānadena. One should not claim honor for himself, but he should give honor to everyone. Amāninā mānadena kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). (pause) So that book, small book, Easy Journey . . . is it interesting?
Dr. Sharma: It is interesting. It has been very well written.
Dr. Sharma: It's a very well written book.
Prabhupāda: Then that translation you have to . . .
Dr. Sharma: . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So encourage him to translate more books. (indistinct background conversation between devotee and Dr. Sharma) In Russia, if they allow us to speak, then we can convert many. There is no doubt about it. But they have restriction for outsider. Now, here is a scientific man. They'll not hear?
Dr. Sharma: Because this Vaiṣṇava topic is very controversial to them.
Prabhupāda: Controversial for them, not for the scientists.
Dr. Sharma: No, not but for them in the sense that the people who rule them. Because generally . . . (indistinct) . . . despot. Naturally even the subjects have got to say any . . . (indistinct) . . . Narayana-namah. So that is what he really insisted upon, even . . . (indistinct) . . . who refused to do so. So we are waiting for the day when that maha-. . . (indistinct) . . . will really come. Because they are all . . . (indistinct) . . . That has got to be raised.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the greatest men in this "Life coming from matter" is in Russia. His name is Ivan Oparin, A. I. Oparin. He's in the Moscow Academy.
Dr. Sharma: He's a biologist.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, he's a biologist. He was one of the leading men who proposed this theory. He's getting old, but still, he's active. We wanted to send him all the things that we have written when it's finished.
Dr. Sharma: They may work on life and the gerontology. So they have published many papers on that. Oparin has got his own type of success in that. And the Politburo doesn't like him because he is not really obeying what the Politburo says. (pause) You have got anybody coming this evening?
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Dr. Sharma: I thought professional wise I would give you some help, what I know . . .
Prabhupāda: Hmm. (end).