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770702 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770702R1-VRNDAVAN - July 02, 1977 - 54:59 Minutes

(Conversation with Mr. Myer)

Prabhupāda: Otherwise he is not my disciple.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he's not. He didn't chant sixteen rounds.

Prabhupāda: India also, there are selected. Morarji Desai is anxious to see me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, whenever your name is brought up, he feels, "Yes, I want to meet him."

Prabhupāda: And the cabinet minister . . . but they are in prestigious position. They do not come here. They want me to go to them. I could have come, but in this position . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and, you know, if your health improves a little, what we may be able to do is to arrange a program in our center in Delhi simply for the selected persons like cabinet ministers, or maybe at one of their homes, and have them invite just the cabinet members and Mr. Desai, and that would be very nice, very high-level meeting. That could be . . . you know, just like supposing when you go to Bombay, you'll have to stay in Delhi overnight. So on that evening we can make an arrangement like that.

Prabhupāda: Or we can stay in Delhi. No fault.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One or two days. Probably you wouldn't be able to speak to all of them 'cause they're not all in the station at once, but even if a few of them came, it would be very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very meaningful.

Prabhupāda: We shall go now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I think you could. (break)

Prabhupāda: Whether you have studied, and his proposal is, some money can be saved. The present management is going on, and if he takes little care . . . you said up to thirteen thousand?

Akṣayānanda: Right.

Prabhupāda: Can be saved. So why not let him do, and let us see practically? If some money is saved, it is very . . . so you remain as president. How he manages, how he saves, you see. What do you think?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. First class.

Prabhupāda: So is that all right?

Mr. Myer: Really, the fact is that the excess of expenditure is only . . . (indistinct) . . . thousand. So what . . . there are two positions we have to take. One is to increase the revenue, and one is also to curb our expenditure. These are two ways.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Come here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says in order to make that money, you have to do two things. One is decrease the expenses, minimize the expenses, and also maximize collections. Right now . . .

Prabhupāda: Maximize collect . . . if you increase collection, that money comes, extra.

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But by decreasing expenditure, you save money. That is real saving.

Mr. Myer: No, thirteen thousand rupees is not the savings. At present the excess in expenditure only will come, as it stands now. So we have to find a regular means. It's very possible if some of the areas . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's saying that whatever the case is, more money is being spent here than is being made.

Prabhupāda: So save it. First of all save it. More money, to increase, that is not difficult for us. We go to beg, "Please give us." We can get.

Akṣayānanda: The idea is to save it.

Prabhupāda: Real thing is how to save it. In business circle they say: "To earn money is not difficult, but to spend money is difficult." That is intelligence. To earn money is not difficult, because we do not earn. Whatever Kṛṣṇa gives, we take. But if Kṛṣṇa's money is not squandered, misspent, that is intelligence. So we have to see first of all present . . . I know that. So much money is squandered. Just like the other day. To secure one eye glass . . . it is four annas' worth; we have spent at least twenty rupees. In this way our money is being squandered.

Mr. Myer: Actually, as you said the other day very rightly, what is really important now is to try and make things very common, you know, as Prabhupāda says, whatever complication that we have . . .

Prabhupāda: To earn money, to bring money, is not difficult for us, but whatever money is being spent, if we can save money, that is intelligence.

Mr. Myer: Fortunately this is end of the year, so we can make a budget also from the first of this month.

Prabhupāda: No, no, whatever it may be, I want to see that, how the money is being saved. So far earning money, I can earn, even sitting here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I was just seeing today . . .

Prabhupāda: That is not problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . that you're just sitting here in Vṛndāvana, but every month you're getting ten thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: And if I ask . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without asking.

Prabhupāda: If I ask, I can get more money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was just looking today, and I noticed, every month, at least ten thousand rupees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say it is practical. To earn money is not difficult, at least for me. But to save money is difficult thing, because that is not in my hand. So let us see how much money we save. Increase the income, that we can do. And there is no problem. I think this is a maxim that, "To earn money is not difficult. To save money is difficult." Whatever property we have now made, Kṛṣṇa has given us. But now, to maintain this, to save this prestigious position, that is difficult. Little mismanagement, there may be so many difficulties. You are a businessman, so he knows very well.

Mr. Myer: Sir, I'm going to sit down with Mahārāja and give him a very nice progress in the evening, all the time knowing, day-to-day working, each year . . .

Prabhupāda: No, you can . . . you can do.

Mr. Myer: I'm sure Mahārāja will take. If he likes it, I will try to develop.

Prabhupāda: He'll not interfere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says you can do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He'll not interfere.

Akṣayānanda: That should be very nice.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Akṣayānanda: That's very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: He's very experienced . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. I started this movement with forty rupees. You know that Scindia Steam Navigation Company?

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they gave me a free ticket, and the government allowed me to take with me forty rupees. In this state, condition, I started for New York. You see? No friend, no secre . . . no hotel, nothing, arrangement. This was the beginning. Then I went there. So I do not know how it happened. Now we have got forty crores. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I never expected that my books will be sold and appreciated all over the world. So that is being done. People are appreciating the whole movement. Even in our country, our government, it has come to their notice, cabinet ministers. So my . . . (indistinct) . . . was that in Delhi there is a confectioner's shop. You had been in Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you go to Delhi sometimes?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I will . . .

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loi Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting—somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission—substantial, genuine. So why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I thought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Mr. Myer: Our new prime minister is now very much appreciating the movement, especially about Prabhupāda. He may like to visit. He says he does not want these foreign industries. He wants people to have religious . . . and he is very big sannyāsī himself. That is why he is . . .

Prabhupāda: Who?

Mr. Myer: Morarji Desai. He is very much in favor of the movement that we are carrying on.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Myer: Because he himself is following the four principles very nicely for fifty years.

Prabhupāda: So why does he not do? Let him do it.

Mr. Myer: Due to . . .

Prabhupāda: We can help him in so many ways.

Mr. Myer: But that is he is doing. He wants every village like we have planned Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Myer: He wants every village like that, to be . . .

Prabhupāda: That can be done very easily. It can be done very easily, provided government wants. And we can help. We have to follow simply the Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not follow. They manufacture their own interpretation. That is the difficulty. Otherwise the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of happy life and entrance, matriculation, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, graduate, and then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, postgraduate. We are therefore presenting three books. So if we follow, our life is successful. But you don't follow. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is so strong that untruthful things, we take it as truthful. Just like the modern scientists. These rascals, he could not, they cannot, they will never be able to produce life. Still, they are insisting: "Yes, we will do it. We shall do." The whole world is full of rascals. What they cannot do, what they could not do, what they'll never be able to do . . . still, they will persist. This is the difficulty. They have never gone to moon planet, their aeroplane. They cannot go anywhere. You have got plane. They are conditioned. And they are thinking, "We are free." Just like an animal is bound up in a plane, and he's going round, here and here. He's thinking, "The world is round. The world is round." He does not accept that, "I am conditioned." They have got now aeroplane, jet plane and so many. Go anywhere. They cannot go. Still, they are proud, "We have measured." This dog's obstinacy of this modern world has killed the whole civilization.

Mr. Myer: This is what Prime Minister's saying, that in India we have more unemployed people, although we are trying to make machines. And if we go back to villages and . . .

Prabhupāda: But he says. When he shall do? Says only.

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let him do. We are prepared to cooperate with him. We can give him good advice. We are not going to become prime minister. We have no such policy. Neither president. We kick all these. We have no time even. Even they offer, we'll not take. We are not interested in this. But for the welfare of the whole human society we can give them good advice if you like. That is our duty. Actually, the legislative assembly should be filled up with men like us, Parliament, to give advice. But all loafer class, bhangis, cāmāras, they are filling up.

Mr. Myer: All . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the disaster came, Indira.

Mr. Myer: Actually it is a big danger. All the people were educated. Here Hanumān Akuso. They have made family plan. But all the . . .

Prabhupāda: So why family planning? Because they are rascal. Because in this lower species of life they have no family. You'll find in the dogs, dozens of dogs, dozens of children. And . . . so there is no family planning. So how they are being raised? There are many animals. So family planning is a different thing, but one thing is that these rascals are misguided. They do not know how to give them . . . in Bengal there is called śiva gotri bango. He was ordered to make a doll of Lord Śiva, and he made a monkey. You see? They are doing like that. They were to make Lord Śiva's doll, but they have made a monkey because he does not know. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ (SB 1.7.6). These rascals do not know how to make things right. Therefore Vyāsadeva has written so many nice literatures. But they'll not consult. They'll not take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Vyāsadeva's advice, or our advice. They'll manufacture. And instead of preparing doll of Śiva, they are making a doll of monkey. This is going on. And when the monkey is made, "Oh, we did not like this for . . ." Russia said that occasional revolution is required. Because the things which have been made, that is imperfect; therefore you require revolution. The things are being given, but if we take the perfect thing, it will be nice. These rascals will not take. This is the difficulty. So if Morarji Desai is in favor of . . . he's also recommending family planning? So that means he does not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he has a big target of eight or ten million people.

Mr. Myer: In twenty years all people have . . . (indistinct) . . . who have four children, we'll have to give them.

Prabhupāda: Why four children? Bring hundred children, I shall maintain. (break) There are many fathers. They cannot maintain even one child, what to speak of four children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't maintain any, because they don't have Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being . . . or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nāhi. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that, "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is . . . there is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in . . . they do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll . . . there are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They . . . they take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13): "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are . . . Gandhi is . . . "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is . . . "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan . . ." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the . . . do you think they do understand this line?

Mr. Myer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Do you think they . . . do they understand these lines? Now, if your . . .

Mr. Myer: No, that will be change of party. One man is in Congress. One is in . . . (indistinct) . . . then he goes to Congress. Wherever he can get an office, they are changing party. They are not all thinking of the spirit.

Prabhupāda: Therefore . . .

Mr. Myer: They think anything is possible, even, anything. Do they not preach when they are congressmen? Tomorrow Congress is going to power. Then after tomorrow we will have Janata. All the time they are changing, everyone. They just want personal gain at any cost.

Prabhupāda: That is why we say the stool, this side and that side. After all, it is stool. Somebody says: "This side is better than that side." Stool is stool when in this side or that side. That is going on. Guer ei pitaro. But they are so intelligent, "No, no, this side is better. It has dried up." (laughter) They are rascals like that. It is stool. It is untouchable. It is obnoxious. It is bad. But they are thinking, "This side is better." This is their intelligence. What can I do? But if they consult us, they'll be benefited. We are not going to be prime minister or this minister, that . . . we kick out these. We want to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no such ambition. So read books. Do things nicely. Serve Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. The direction is there, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Mr. Myer: Actually, it must be available in schools. That is one of the first programs. But we changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that . . .

Mr. Myer: See, a lot of here, they made the school.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are opening this gurukula.

Mr. Myer: No, even in the other schools, they must give something about the . . .

Prabhupāda: You say: "They must give," but who takes, "Yes"?

Mr. Myer: In some school . . .

Akṣayānanda: That is up to us.

Mr. Myer: . . . if we can make some beginning of some sort . . .

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you show by example. Bring these brahmacārīs. Teach them, and gradually . . . just like our organization not all of a sudden has become so big. I was . . . for more than one year I was simply loitering on the street of New York like a vagabond. Who was hearing me? Still, I am going once in a month to the ship company, "So when your next ship is coming to go to India?" So the manager: "Swāmījī, you are coming. When you are going next?" I said: "Yes, I have no business practically here. But still, I want to stay and see if things can be pushed." Therefore I am writing. Otherwise I am useless. I am simply loitering and seeing the Fifth Avenue and the . . . and within the subway station, after taking my lunch I used to go by bus here and there, in the subway, anywhere go. No shelter. I was cooking, myself, in a friend's house. So he took it as a free cook he has got. And two men, of course, we . . . sometimes some guest would . . . and I would be very glad. And ten, twenty, I'll feed them. And they would like very much ḍāl, cāpāṭi and one vegetable. Bās. Everyone would like. Everyone would like, ḍāl, cāpāṭi and one vegetable. I'll take pleasure. Sometimes somebody would come to assist me. He wanted to eat immediately. And "No, that you cannot. After I have finished, when it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, then I'll give you sumptuous prasādam, not before." So there was no . . . and little rice. Ḍāl, cāpāṭi, rice, vegetable, bās. Oh, it was so nice. Everyone would praise. The same thing, when I took my own apartment I did the same thing, distributed prasādam. Then, gradually, they came forward to assist me. First came Kīrtanānanda. He is the first cook. Yes. Then Acyutānanda. Brahmānanda was washing dish. He could not help the cooking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was the dishwasher?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He liked that. (laughter) He liked that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was Gargamuni doing?

Prabhupāda: Gargamuni did not join in the beginning. He was watching his brother. He was, rather, little critical. Gargamuni came first, er . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahmānanda.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda. Then our Satsvarūpa, then Jadurāṇī. In this way, gradually increased. And Kīrtanānanda was very expert in learning. He learned how to make purī, kacaurī, samosā, sweet ball. We were having very nice feast every Sunday. On Saturday night we would prepare so many things and stocked it. And Sunday, distributing. People would take, "Oh, so . . ." At least in that time seventy, eighty guests were coming. And they were very happy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all get fed sumptuously?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Full.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where . . .? Would you eat with them?

Prabhupāda: No. I was eating also, not necessarily with them. I was seeing that they are . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were in the room, though, while they were eating.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Acyutānanda was also doing very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cooking.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Acyutānanda, Satsvarūpa, Kīrtanānanda—these three persons would, on my direction, "Do like this. Do like this . . ."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were cooking.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. And stocked at night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Brahmānanda was eating. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: In the very beginning, when I was simply alone, Rāyarāma, he was there. He was helping me, cooking, washing dishes, carrying my luggage, everything. Very good boy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about Hayagrīva?

Prabhupāda: Hayagrīva was eating also. (laughter) And he was typing. He's a very good typist. He would type very swiftly and correctly. Then I started this Back to Godhead, Hayagrīva and Rāyarāma, editors. And I purchased two machines. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mimeograph machine.

Prabhupāda: There was advertisement. So I went to Long Island. That two machines . . . I asked, "What is the price?" "$150 each." Then he wanted to take away the machines. Machine was all right. And then I told him that "I have got $150 only. If you want to give us, give those two machines." So "All right, you take these all." (laughter) So I gave him $150, whatever I had, and I took the machine. In that machine was printed Back to Godhead. So five hundred copies . . . how many copies you were selling?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, by the time we were selling, you were printing about three thousand, and we were selling twenty-five hundred.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Then I asked Brahmānanda that, "Why not print it nicely?" So he said that "Unless we print twenty thousand, nobody will take this work." And "All right, order twenty thousand." Now, from twenty thousand or five hundred, what is the quantity now we are printing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not less than five hundred thousand a month.

Bhakti-caru: Two million.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes more.

Bhakti-caru: Mahārāja, in all languages it's two million.

Prabhupāda: And so beautiful printing, picture and . . . the beginning was three hundred, and Gargamuni, he took away somebody's hand cart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He what?

Prabhupāda: It was on the street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He took a hand cart.

Prabhupāda: And he was putting these magazines on the hand cart, selling near cinema and other crowded places. That is very beginning. So it was a hard struggle in the beginning.

Mr. Myer: The article of this, especially with the head of London Times and other people, they're very good. Lots of people asking all sorts of questions about them. They thought nobody cared.

Prabhupāda: No, our Bengali . . . Bhagavāner-kathā, they have been very much appreciated. How many they'll sell?

Bhakti-caru: We printed, last issue, thirty thousand issues here.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bhakti-caru: And one of them, here. First issue was ten thousand. The second issue was twenty thousand. Third issue was thirty thousand. And first and second was sold out in three weeks. People were taking so many.

Prabhupāda: And we have got many appreciator.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Many people are taking up this spiritual life after reading those.

Mr. Myer: It is a constant reminder, month after month. Each time a new issue comes . . .

Prabhupāda: That requires management. That requires management, how . . .

Mr. Myer: Once one takes up a certain life . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . to set up things, how to come . . .

Mr. Myer: . . . even one is slipping, he gets a reminder every month.

Prabhupāda: So do nicely. And as far as our capacity is there. Kṛṣṇārthe akhila-ceṣṭaḥ. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇaṁ sadā (SB 10.22.35). Janma-sāphalyam . . . etāvaj janma-sāphalyam. Do it. Do this. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇam. This is . . . should be . . . this should be the motto, how we engage our life, our money, our intelligence, our words, to improve Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success. Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). What is that verse, beginning?

Akṣayānanda: Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Akṣayānanda: Ataḥ pumbhir dvija . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhāḥ . . .

Akṣayānanda: Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya . . .

Prabhupāda: Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). That is required. You . . . how do you know Morarji is interested in . . .?

Mr. Myer: Well, all the government bosses now, they have defined that, "We don't want any big industry." They want all the people in villages. They don't want to use fertilizer.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is our . . .

Mr. Myer: They want to use compost.

Prabhupāda: This is our . . .

Mr. Myer: That is what has been done in Ahmedabad. I spent one night with Mahāṁśa Swami, and they are also digging up the pits. They are making their own fertilizer. Everything is . . . that's . . . you see, that's a policy of Ram Mandir's, because they want to create more jobs. The village must become very attractive.

Prabhupāda: Let government help us. If they do not help us even with some men to stay here . . . Indians are not joining. But they are willingly joining, sacrificing everything.

Mr. Myer: No, but it is worked down now. You see, what it is, people were not moved so much. I think . . .

Prabhupāda: And I want simply some of them to stay, not money. Money they are bringing. Whatever money we are spending here, Bombay, they are bringing. They are . . . I am writing books. They are selling books. I am working them always, "Make double. Make double." And they are bringing money. So we'll not touch even India's money a farthing. Let them stay here. "No, that is not . . . get out. Get out. Get out. Get out." That's all.

Mr. Myer: Yes, the posts will change now because it is very good man over here, new business in America and on the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: And "Get out. Get out."

Mr. Myer: This "Get out . . ."

Prabhupāda: And "Get out" means another ten thousand rupees. He has to go out, again come back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a big harassment.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like now . . .

Prabhupāda: How much harassment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . I still have to go . . .

Prabhupāda: The government is not helping me even in this way. What they'll do? And . . .

Mr. Myer: Because Indira Gandhi had very bad relations with America. This is the problem. And she was trying to make very bad propaganda about the ISKCON in India.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Mr. Myer: Now she is gone, so everything is fine.

Prabhupāda: She was making propaganda? I . . .

Mr. Myer: She was trying to say that this ISKCON is cheat.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Mr. Myer: They said that, "This is . . . CIA people are here and then is happening, that is happening." That is why some of the Indians, you know, in the beginning, nobody has gone deep. You see, nobody . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Myer: . . . has tried to study the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: She was very . . .

Mr. Myer: That is why she has had a very bad time.

Prabhupāda: . . . biased against the Americans.

Mr. Myer: She has got very bad time now. She has already paid for that. So she will be in jail very shortly, her son and both, her son and . . . you know her chief minister in Madras, all her people are going to go in jail now, all of them. All the . . . everybody involved in her ministry.

Prabhupāda: His son should be hanged.

Mr. Myer: So many . . . (indistinct) . . . Morarji Desai was in jail for nineteen months.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Mr. Myer: Every day reading the Gītā, and he was doing the spinning wheel. Nineteen months he was doing. He's also eighty years old.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is of my age, my . . .

Mr. Myer: Yes. He is Guru's age.

Prabhupāda: Eighty, eighty-two.

Mr. Myer: Now is a very good time for ISKCON, because this new government, all their policies is what ISKCON is already doing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us see actually if it is good.

Prabhupāda: No, it can be successful, provided they do it nicely. It can be successful very easily, especially in India. That one line of Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). We have to take this. Satyaṁ śamo damas . . . there is cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma . . . (BG 4.13). If they follow this program, everything will be . . . the face of the world will be . . . everything. Annād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. Eh? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Eh? Parjanyād . . .

Akṣayānanda: Yajñād bhavati sam . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). All prescription of material life, spiritual life, social life, political life, religious life, artistic life—Bhagavad-gītā is full of knowledge. At least in India there must be an institution that is strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. This is my institution. We don't want anything more, other help. We simply request them that, "Give some of our men permanent residence. We shall guide it." That they'll institute. What help . . . what is the harm? Have we got such a . . .

Mr. Myer: It is problem. If they help ISKCON, then there are all the churches in India, they'll want to plead . . .

Prabhupāda: Then it is not helping ISKCON.

Mr. Myer: No, you see, if they're convinced . . .

Prabhupāda: It is not helping ISKCON.

Mr. Myer: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Within the scope the support is gone.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of support. It is etiquette.

Mr. Myer: It is etiquette now.

Akṣayānanda: Etiquette.

Prabhupāda: American is giving. I am permanent resident of America. If they are giving Indians permanent resident for some business, why not Americans?

Mr. Myer: Well, that is because Indira . . . she was prime minister, you see. She was very bad . . .

Prabhupāda: So that is gone.

Mr. Myer: They have all exploded that wall, you see. That's what, how the government . . . so people said that . . . they're giving money for vague and, which is . . . (indistinct) . . . at the time, I think, there is just distribution of. Now I think they have met recently in England. So there is some programs in India. Even in Kerala now . . . everywhere there is some . . . after Morarji Desai has taken over, our relations are improving with all the countries.

Prabhupāda: That is expected. He's a good man. But . . .

Mr. Myer: And people have got very high regard for his personal life. He's wakes up in the morning and does the spinning, and he's dedicated . . . he's not even taking any medicines or any type of . . . very, very strict. He does not wear any cloth which he is not spinning. I don't know how he finds the time, but he is doing so many things. The people are amazed at his . . . how he is doing. It is very fortunate that he has come now. I think certainly they will now adopt some special . . . (indistinct) . . . Once they see the gurukula and Vedic university coming up . . . whoever's not in the gurukula, this is going to . . . (indistinct) . . . everywhere also . . . so if you don't know the modern language . . . it is a university also . . . (indistinct) . . . special . . .

Prabhupāda: No, our books are more than university standard. If they simply can study our book, it is more than the course he was given. Tan manye adhitam uttamam (SB 7.5.24). All right.

Akṣayānanda: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances) (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . of first grade, one hour there. That doesn't mean necessarily life is shorter. (end)