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770708 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770708R2-VRNDAVAN - July 08, 1977 - 64:39 Minutes

(Conversation about Mayapur Attack Talk with Vrindavan De)

Prabhupāda: Broken. Neglected.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished. I remember we were walking with you. So it was near the . . . you know, near Bury Place there's a little park.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. There was one building that they were constructing, and before finishing the building they were living in it, and you said: "This means this British Empire is finished. They cannot even afford to finish the building before living in it. This is a sign that they are not opulent at all." I remember you said that. They're not very opulent, the British.

Prabhupāda: No. Their opulence finished. Actually, they're poor country. Simply by exploiting other countries they became rich. Otherwise they are . . . naturally they are poor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Peasants. Didn't Hitler say something about that?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think Hitler said they're . . .

Prabhupāda: "Shopkeepers' nation." Yes. Naturally they are very poor. They cannot produce anything. It is so cold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They produce coal.

Prabhupāda: I do not know what is they produce . . . what is called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Moss.

Prabhupāda: Moss. When there is moss and waterpot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Moss.

Prabhupāda: Moss, moss.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They produce that.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Everywhere you'll find, even on the trees, because there is no sunshine; all rainfall.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: Very wretched place. I told some television reporter, "Here is hell."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When you landed there you said that?

Prabhupāda: No. There was television girl. "What is the description of hell?" "Now, here is—London."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew! That must not have been a very popular statement.

Prabhupāda: No, he stopped immediately. Simply outwardly decorated, and it is hell. I told him. Actually that is, everywhere. No . . . only cloud and that mist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the sun never sets in the British Empire.

Prabhupāda: But it always sets in London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It never rose.

Prabhupāda: Setting of sunshine is monopolized by London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a description in the Bhāgavatam about the setting of the sun. It's described that when the day . . . that the water is darker by day. The ocean water is darker by day than by night. And the reason given is that the daytime, the daylight goes into the ocean at night. The ocean absorbs the light of the day, and therefore when you look at the water at night, it's lighter than it is during the day. That's a fact. The Bhāgavatam explains why, that there's some power within the ocean to attract the daytime. And in the daytime, the nighttime goes . . .

Prabhupāda: It is absorbed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the opposite is true. In the daytime the night goes into the water, so it appears a very dark color. This is . . . every explanation is given in the Bhāgavatam, and it's all in contradiction to the so-called scientists. They say that the reason we experience day and night is that the earth is rotating on its axis and at the same time circumambulating the sun.

Prabhupāda: Double. Double motion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So they say, therefore, when you're on this side and the sun is here, you won't see, but when it turns around, then you'll see the sun. But the Bhāgavatam does not agree with that description. The Bhāgavatam says that you don't see the sun because it's blocked by the Meru. The sun is moving, and Meru is blocking. And they never even heard of Meru. What is their knowledge? Such a big mountain and they don't even know about it. That means they never left the earth's sphere. They never went more than a few hundred miles in the air, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's all lies.

Prabhupāda: All. That I am speaking from the very beginning. Now it is proved. They are also saying.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, about the moon hoax.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They could not answer this, "Why Sunday first, Monday?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was with you when that reporter came in Los Angeles. Prabhupāda said: "Then answer this one question, 'Why all over the world, Sunday comes before Monday?' "

Prabhupāda: They could not answer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they thought that that was a childish . . . they thought that was very childish to say . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, first of all answer this child. Then become scientist. So there is no professor.

Upendra: The scientists . . . (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, to them, some of our statements seem very childish and innocent.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some of the things that we say. Just like why is the water darker at daytime? Because the night has entered the water. They say: "Oh, that is . . ."

Upendra: They say it's mythology.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mythology or childish. "Only a child would believe such a thing." But it's common sense. The thing is, they have no faith, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go and take rest. (break) Because I am very much fond of traveling, touring, they might have caused some danger. So Kṛṣṇa has detained me. What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you're right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Yes. Actually the GBC, we all were thinking that it might be dangerous for you . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . to travel.

Prabhupāda: They would have been very glad that, "Here is the old rascal who has spoiled our children." They could charge, and drag me to the courts and give me trouble. Therefore a restriction upon me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Restrict, that instead of myself, he has to restrict, "Do this way."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Including go to the court. This boy writes further. He says: "They claimed I was brainwashed by Śrīla Prabhupāda and the devotees, and they were here to get me to think for myself again. They kept me up for ten hours at a time for so-called deprogramming, just blaspheming Śrīla Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa and telling lie after lie. Finally they let me go to sleep, and in the morning it was time for more blaspheming and lies. But by Kṛṣṇa's mercy I was able to escape out the front door of the house," he says: "which was unguarded. I ran down my block barefoot and was able to get to my friend's house. I told him the story. He gave me enough money to get to a nearby temple. There I served Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and had the association of my Godbrothers, who are most dear to me. There I spent the happiest time of my life as a devotee with the association of the Brijabāsīs. Being a devotee of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, there's nothing like it—singing, dancing, taking prasādam, being happy and free from anxiety all the time. It is just a blissful life. All Kṛṣṇa wants is for us to be happy with Him. I called my parents and told them that I was doing fine and that I had even gained seven pounds in weight. They had the police looking for me all over the place in only a minute, and they finally showed up. Mahārāja felt it was best that I go back and clear things up with my parents and with their consent come back. But they refused to let me go, and instead put me through a one-month deprogramming session. This time I was unable to escape. But now Kṛṣṇa has pulled me through, even though I'm forced to live with my parents. They are nice people, but they just don't understand about transcendental life. But they will come around sooner or later. I cannot keep any Vedic literature at home, so a friend lets me keep it at his house, and I read it during my school lunchtime. I am not able to keep japa beads to chant on, so I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa on rosary beads. I'm sixteen years old now and going to school, where I am taught little of any value. It is sometimes difficult to remain Kṛṣṇa conscious out in the material world, but I pray to Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda to help me become strong and desire to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more every day. I will be able to join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in person in two years, which isn't very long considering that I have waited to serve Kṛṣṇa for millions of lifetimes. If you have the opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa, don't waste it, because you may wind up in my shoes in your next life. Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is . . .

Prabhupāda: If one man is turned by this, the movement is successful. So there is good prospect, good hope. And you all combine together, try. Push this movement more and more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of encouraging . . . I mean, everywhere there's victory.

Prabhupāda: Now I am assured. I die or live, this movement will go on. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This movement cannot die. Too many . . . implanted in so many people's hearts now. We cannot get it out anymore.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A very nice magazine.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can just show you some pictures. (break)

Prabhupāda: There is no danger at Vṛndāvana-candra's . . . kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ pra . . . (BG 9.31). So now they are printing, huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, this is on their own press, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look how nicely they've done. It says: "Serving Kṛṣṇa in the Land of Transcendental Bliss." Ox cart, cooking, Kulādri cooking in a big pot, cows, milking. Here they have all the people working on it.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Light of the Bhāgavata." It's a lecture by you. They are doing . . . these are original illustrations.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, do you see what this says, Śrīla Prabhupāda, on this past page? It says . . . this is the verse. "The small rivulets, which were almost dried up during the months of May and June, now begin to overflow, transgressing the banks of the river, just as the upstarts addicted to uncontrolled sense enjoyment overflow the limits of expenditure all of a sudden." And then they show a picture describing it. Sense enjoyment. They're going verse by verse and drawing original illustrations to depict. Vedic recipe page, rasagullās. It says: "Agni-hotra on Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva's Appearance Day."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sanskrit is given. It's very nice. "Spiritual Psychology: Going Beyond the Sex Impulse."

Prabhupāda: They printed in their own press.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Very good advancement. What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says: "Āśrama Stems." It's describing the construction of your palace. And here's a picture of the two śālagrāmas which they now worship. Look how elaborate!

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī Hiraṇyagarbha and Śrī Sudarśana in jeweled thrones. This is making the top of the domes. On your palace there's . . . the top domes have lotus petals coming under them. So over that will go the domes. This is very big. The devotees are making the whole thing themselves. This shows devotees. See, this is a form, and into this form they'll pour concrete and other things and make shapes like these lotus petals. It's all hand done. "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement." This is pictures of saṅkīrtana in Pittsburgh and Wheeling, West Virginia. "Iṣṭagoṣṭhi: Questions and answers discussed between His Holiness Kīrtanānanda Swami and members and guests of New Vrindaban." "Cow-Kathā." (laughter) Like kṛṣṇa-kathā, cow-kathā. "Seeking Refuge from the Kali-yuga." This is from your old Back to Godheads. I remember in the first printings in America this appeared—Nārada-Bhakti-Sūtra. This boy writes an article every week—"Deep in the Woods." He's the woodman there, wood cutter. He tells about different . . . he relates it to the śāstra. "Color photographs available of Rādhā-Vṛndāvana-candra." They send it in the mail, "Non-profit organization, US Postage Paid." So it goes in the mail just like this. Very nice. I think it's time for your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I'll take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I thought it was good to read all these things to you.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) . . . underneath a tree.

Devotees: Yes. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . telephone call from Gopāla Kṛṣṇa. He got a call from Māyāpur, and in our Māyāpur temple there was some difficulty there from dacoits.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three hundred dacoits attacked our temple, and there was fighting, and five of the devotees were in the hospital. Bhavānanda Mahārāja, he was arrested 'cause he fired a gun. He shot two of them and put them in the hospital, so they arrested him. And that's all he told me. Three hundred dacoits attacked. He said Jayapatākā is now there. Jayapatākā wasn't there. He was traveling and preaching. So he's there now. He's sending a report to you, a more detailed report. And they want . . . Jayapatākā Mahārāja wants Śatadhanya Mahārāja to go immediately there because Bhavānanda is in jail, arrested. And they want Prabhāsa to come, because the gun that Bhavānanda Mahārāja used is in the name of Prabhāsa. And Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is going there tomorrow. He's also going there.

Prabhupāda: So why attacked?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the only thing that we were talking about that we could guess is that now the government is Communist. So it may be that these were Communist-inspired dacoits. I mean, three hundred, if there was actually . . . it must have been quite a huge number. That means they were organized. It's not some ordinary village dacoits to have such a huge number of them. So the Communists, maybe they did this. It's hard to understand until we get the report from Jayapatākā. He said he's sending it.

Prabhupāda: And police did not help?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it was in the middle of the night. So probably by the time they informed the police, you know, by the time the police came, whatever was done was done. I mean, Gopāla didn't have the full information, and he's going there. And, of course, we were only talking over telephone, so even if he knew . . . whatever he knew he told me as much as he could over the telephone. But I asked if anyone was killed. He said no. But five devotees were in the hospital. You know that teacher who was here? Hiraṇyagarbha? Remember the gurukula teacher? He was stabbed. They didn't say . . . I think that's about the most serious that anyone was hurt. No one was killed or anything, but it's . . . the government now is very precarious there. It's all Communist government. I mean, I remember when Bengal was with the Communists in 1971. It was horrible there. So many marches, and so many of our members were being attacked. So maybe it was the Communists who did this. I don't think the Gauḍīya Maṭha could have organized such a thing. They would not do that.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It sounds like . . . I don't know if there's any . . . probably they won't attack again immediately. Now there must be police all the time there. I remember, in Calcutta once we had some trouble. Immediately they put a police guard all the time. The question is, of course, how much the government will protect us if the government is Communist and these were Communists who attacked. That we'll have to see.

Prabhupāda: No. It has to be taken to the Central Government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what I thought also. I suspect that Gopāla wants to get the full information firsthand. Then he has to come to Vṛndāvana-Delhi anyway, so probably he'll come from Calcutta to Delhi directly to deal with the Central government. At that time, we should take the help of Bhakti-caitanya Mahārāja's friend, Mr. Gupta. This is the proper occasion.

Prabhupāda: But if the dacoits attacked, we used gun, what is wrong?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Self-protection. The question is it may be that the gun may only be allowed to be used by the licensed holder of the gun.

Prabhupāda: That does not matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes, you know, when a person is arrested, it doesn't mean he's guilty, but they have to arrest him. Then, later on, it's taken up in court whether or not he's guilty.

Prabhupāda: Gun is kept for protection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know what the rule is. (indistinct comments with other devotees) Anyway, it will come up in court. That's a formality, that when you shoot someone they arrest you. Whether you're right or wrong, they have to take you to court. Probably the dacoits pressed some charge also. Who knows? Jayapatākā's report will be coming with . . . more fully. Actually, I would have waited to tell you, but because Śatadhanya probably will have to . . . they want him to go, so . . . they want Prabhāsa there right away. It may be that they want to say that Prabhāsa was there.

Prabhupāda: So both of them are going?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Gopāla . . . his point . . . he said Jayapatākā wants Śatadhanya Mahārāja and Prabhāsa to go.

Prabhupāda: Then let them go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let them go. That was his whole point in calling, because they cannot call from Māyāpur to Vṛndāvana. The telephone line will not do that. So Māyāpur called Bombay and Bombay called here.

Prabhupāda: So some of the dacoits are arrested or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't say. I'm certain that some of them must have been arrested. They couldn't have all gotten away. I mean, some of them are in the hospital. The ones that Bhavānanda shot are in the hospital.

Prabhupāda: So one is in the hospital.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two.

Prabhupāda: Two.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda shot down two of them.

Prabhupāda: No, no. From their? Dacoits?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, two. Bhavānanda shot with a gun two dacoits, and they're in the hospital.

Prabhupāda: So then there is clue. Then others should be arrested.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually . . . I'm actually speculating. Gopāla said Bhavānanda shot two of them, and he's in jail for shooting two of them. I'm saying that they're in the hospital. Maybe they're not. He's arrested for shooting two of them. But unless . . .

Prabhupāda: Unless they are in hospital . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How could he be arrested? Right.

Prabhupāda: Bengal has become ruined.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're the only place in all of India that elected a Communist government. Everyone else was so happy to elect the new party. But they elected Communists. Most amazing.

Prabhupāda: Where is Vrindavan?

Devotee: He's resting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, what I'm thinking is that that Mr. Arora, he wanted to go see Jyoti Basu.

Prabhupāda: He talks too much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think it's going to have much consequence. If they want to give us the land, they'll give it. It's not that . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Regarding that land, if they want to give it, they'll give it. It's not that somebody's going to come, like Mr. Arora, and by his coming suddenly they're going to give us the land. It's a big political matter. It's not friendship. (pause) We just have to become very much prepared now for such occurrences. Those gurukula boys, as they grow up, they should be trained to protect Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say kṣatriya. Some of our men should be trained as kṣatriya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is required.

Prabhupāda: Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). There must be division—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—not that all one class. That is all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people are inclined in that way. Guṇa-karma.

Prabhupāda: But everyone can be utilized if you organize everything rightly. Three hundred dacoits there means government is very weak.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's just in one little area, Nadia District. Imagine how many dacoits are in all of Bengal now. It will get even worse than it was in 1971 it'll be now. I'm sure, as the Kali-yuga progresses, it will only get worse. And it was very bad. I remember when we were living in Bali Ganj. Every day there was march. People were marching, Communist slogans.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru was saying that one of the reasons Bengali people are by nature . . . they're intelligent. They're always intelligent people, not so much physically hard working. So without so much physical work to do and without proper employment, this intelligence now has become misdirected. 'Cause nowhere else in India do the Communists have such a foothold as in Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent and lazy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Intelligent lazy. (pause) I looked on the medicine bottle of this cough medicine that you took.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This cough medicine that you took, that Expectrin? One fourth of it is chloroform, and it says that in some persons it will cause sleepiness, drowsiness, due to the chloroform.

Upendra: He's coming, Prabhupādajī. He's just finishing breakfast. He said he's coming. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . in the world, the most disturbing element.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Russia, it seems from Harikeśa's letter, that they are admitting it is a failure.

Prabhupāda: It is . . . it must be failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now in Russia they seem to be tending more and more to give up all of this false philosophy. They're allowing churches again.

Prabhupāda: Lenin, Stalin, they were guṇḍās. Guṇḍā philosophy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about Marx?

Prabhupāda: He was a rascal. What is his philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Economic philosophy.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what is that, basic principle?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Basic principle is that the . . .

Prabhupāda: I do not care to read this nonsense, never. What I hear from you, that's all. I tell them, "Mūḍhas, narādhamas." That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't spend any time studying their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I waste my time? I never read all these.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes devotees say, in order to defeat . . . this is their philosophy.

Prabhupāda: They are defeated—already dead. Few days they can quack. That's all. Who asks for Marx now? Gandhi, Marx, Tolstoy, who cares for them? Vivekananda? Now Kṛṣṇa's Bhagavad-gītā is taken.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in the law court it's quoted.

Prabhupāda: So what is the Marx philosophy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, that the proleta . . . he says that the people are suffering at the hands of the capitalists. One or two people . . .

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That we admit, but not to adjust in that way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said everything should be taken out of the hands of the few and given to the many.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By violent revolution.

Prabhupāda: Why violent revolution?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says the few will not give up without forcefully taking it from them.

Prabhupāda: But you'll also not give up. You want to take it by force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says . . .

Prabhupāda: So if you have got right to take by force, others have got the right to take by force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says: "We represent everyone except the few. And we want to make the few part of us, but they should not be special."

Prabhupāda: But if you are so able, then why you are few? You must be many.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. His revolution is the revolution of the masses against the few. Just like in Russia they overthrew the czars.

Prabhupāda: Not the masses. The guṇḍās. Russia was never joined by the masses. It is wrong. That I have studied. Guṇḍās, some guṇḍās . . . just like three hundred guṇḍās came. That does not mean that the mass of . . . the guṇḍās party, Lenin guṇḍās . . . he had some few men. They attacked. They killed. That's all, not the mass. It was not a mass movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In China it was the masses.

Prabhupāda: No. The same, the same few.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they said that the few represented the masses.

Prabhupāda: How? Who elected you? Who asked you? Gaya mane na apni moral: "Nobody cares for me, and I have become beautiful." There are many Bengali . . . dhal nai talwar nai Nidhiram sardar. (chuckles) Mass people never joined. That I have studied.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they say that they represent the . . .

Prabhupāda: You can say, but who made you representative? You can say all nonsense. That is your business. (break) . . . who will give something standard, they'll be established. That standard is in this varṇāśrama.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Real Communism.

Prabhupāda: Here is the standard, that leg must be there, the hand must be there, the head must be there, the belly must be. One who has got the qualities to work like hand, he must work as hand. That is natural. These rascals have no education actually. Therefore I always say "rascals." They manufacture. They are imperfect, and they manufacture. "Probably," "maybe," like that. No standard logic. (to Vrindavan) So, sob ghure dekhe ele? (Did you wander all around?)

Vrindavan De: Hya. (Yes.)

Prabhupāda: Kothay, kothay giyechile? (Which places did you visit?)

Vrindavan De: Nandagrāma, Varṣāṇā, Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Śyāma-kuṇḍa. Khali Gokul ta yaoa hoy ni takhan oi petrol ta phuriye geche. (I could not go to Gokul as I ran out of petrol.)

Prabhupāda: Govardhana Hill?

Vrindavan De: Govardhana. Sei Maharaj of Jaypur, oi ye temple . . . dur theke dekhechi kache yaoar samay pai ni. Kalke aste pareni load shedding chilo to tai . . . (That Mahārāja of Jaipur, that temple . . . I saw that from a distance, I did not get time to go near. I was not able to come yesterday because of load shedding . . .)

Prabhupāda: Amader Māyāpur mandir kichu dakat eschilo . . . (Some robbers attacked our Māyāpur temple . . .)

Vrindavan De: Tin so taka esche? (You have got 300 rupees?)

Prabhupāda: Dakat. (Dacoit.)

Vrindavan De: Tai naki! Kobe? (Is that so! When?)

Prabhupāda: Oi dui car din hoye gelo. (Three four days back.) So do you know anything about Bengal situation?

Vrindavan De: I think it's okay now.

Prabhupāda: What is the Communist view?

Vrindavan De: Communist view?

Prabhupāda: They don't want religion?

Vrindavan De: Nothing serious.

Prabhupāda: What is this leader? Ajit Bose?

Devotees: Jyoti Bose.

Vrindavan De: No, he's not the man of that sort. He's very serious type of man.

Prabhupāda: But Bengal is now full of rogues and rascals and dacoits, everywhere. Practically whole Bengal is full of these elements.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More than other places.

Vrindavan De: The Congress Minister is very much serious person.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere you are going, anywhere you can be attacked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any train, anywhere.

Prabhupāda: Anywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any street.

Prabhupāda: Nowhere is safe. Some boys may come and attack you and take . . . nobody will . . . is it not like that? Neither at home, neither on the road. You are not safe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imagine, in Māyāpur we have 250 devotees, and still they attacked.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we have 250 people. What family has 250 people? If 250 people and there's danger, then what to speak of a family man with only a few people in the family? That means they're ready to attack any number of people. There are so many dacoits.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore they came in number, three hundred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it was very organized, they said. At night they came.

Vrindavan De: They can refer the matter to the Home Department. He's the Home Minister, I think, that Jyoti Bose. He is Chief and Home. He's controlling the police powers and force. Jyoti Bose ke refer kore dite paro, (You can refer to Jyoti Bose,) take action.

Prabhupāda: They must be doing something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, there's no doubt. With Jayapatākā Mahārāja there . . .

Prabhupāda: Amader o bonduk caliyechilo. (There was also a gun shooting from our side.)

Vrindavan De: Pore ota. (That is after this.)

Prabhupāda: Villain ke shoot kora hoyeche. (They shot the villain.)

Vrindavan De: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Vrindavan De: No, shot down!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there was shooting. Bhavānanda Mahārāja was shooting. There was shooting. I don't know if they were also shooting, the dacoits, but we had, our boys . . . this has happened before in small scale, so Jayapatākā knows. We've been attacked enough times so that they know that we're going to make full reports and complaints and get action. The main thing immediately is to get protection of the police so that this doesn't reoccur.

Vrindavan De: You can forward a copy to . . . (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we should go . . . it should be taken to the Central Government.

Vrindavan De: The Chief Secretary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another help you can get is from the embassies. American Embassy has to give protection to its citizens. All foreign embassies have to give full protection. Actually, that's a very good road to take, because if the foreign embassies put in complaints, then it becomes international thing. Then the Central Government will get very upset and direct the West Bengal Government to stop this from reoccuring, "Because we are getting complaints from foreign governments now that we can't give protection to foreigners who are here in this country."

Prabhupāda: So give them the instruction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a very good idea. They should complain to the Consulate, American Consulate . . . (indistinct) . . . and Consulate will complain to the Embassy. Once we get the full information, then we can take action here in Delhi also. At this point we don't have enough information. This is a very good road to take. Go to the American Embassy in Delhi and say: "We want protection. We are American citizens. We want protection. We're being attacked in Bengal. You must put pressure on the government to give us protection." And they'll do that surely. Plus they have to start an investigation to expose who has done this. That has to also be brought up. I'm sure Jayapatākā is . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we go and take our breakfast?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want Vrindavan to stay for a while?

Prabhupāda: No, he . . . (indistinct) . . . Kon jaygata bhalo laglo? (Which place do you like the most?)

Vrindavan De: Oi Jaypurer Maharajer samner mandir ta na, oita bod hoy sob ceye high . . . oi jayga bhalo legeche. Nanda math o motamuti kharap na view ta bhalo chilo. Oi Latika garden na ki sob ache bujhe uthini kichu baba. (The place in front of Jaipur Mahārāja, that I like the most. Nanda matha is not bad, there was a great view. Father, I didn't understand those Latika gardens and other things.)

Prabhupāda: Barsanar opor. (Above Varsana.)

Vrindavan De: Otay uthte ektu kasta hoy, pahar kete rasta to okhane osubidha. Ar oi drive o korechilam. (The road cuts through the hills, it's a little difficult to climb. And I drove there.)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vrindavan De: Driving o korechi. Ami jani to driving. (Do you know I can drive? I know how to drive.)

Prabhupāda: Yodi bhalo kore business korte paro, (If you can do your business nicely) I shall give you car . . . (indistinct) . . . car o nite parbe. (you can take a car as well.) So if you do business, I'll give you car. Not for luxury. Kono jiniser abhab debo na . . . (I don't want to see you in scarcity . . .) that you can take.

Vrindavan De: Na, iye giyechilo sange . . . Nanda dar . . . (No, he also went with me . . . Nanada da . . .)

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Vrindavan De: Oke ektu lift dilam . . . ektu side boso ami . . . abar asar samay anya . . . (I just gave him a lift . . . please sit at the side I . . . when coming back then other . . .)

Prabhupāda: Tor license ache? (Do you have license?)

Vrindavan De: Amar license Calcutta te, license ache amar. Calcutta te ache. (I have a license in Calcutta.)

Prabhupāda: Oi sudhu business kor, (Just do business.) I will give you a car. Not for luxury.

Vrindavan De: Na luxury na, business er janye. (No, not for luxury but for business.)

Prabhupāda: Or yodi kono yagyata thakto, tahole to tori business ta jamato bhalo. (If he had qualifications, then your business can be grown.)

Vrindavan De: Oito ekhoni boli to, ami to pray bolito 'tui elina amar khub asubidha hoy, sob jinista to ami bujhi na, technical . . . ' (I told him until now, I told him often that, "You did not come, that's why I face difficulties, because I don't understand, technical . . .")

Prabhupāda: Or yangyata kichu na, khali boke. (He doesn't have any qualifications, he only shows off.)

Vrindavan De: Ar kono jhuki nite cay na. Na bujhei bhebe ney jhuki ota. (He doesn't want to take risks. Without understanding he thinks that this may be a risk.)

Prabhupāda: Jhuki na nile labhe . . . (Without taking risk, profit . . .)

Vrindavan De: No risk, no gain.

Prabhupāda: Jhuki to sob life tai, ki korle! Kichu ekta kore dekhate parto. (Life is all about risk, what has he done? He could do something and prove himself.)

Vrindavan De: Ektu paa phuleche . . . beshi phuleche mone hocche, dui-tin din ager ceye . . . (Your legs are a little swollen . . . it looks more swollen than 2 to 3 days back . . .)

Prabhupāda: Hote pare. (That's possible.)

Vrindavan De: Ei paa tao to phuleche. Dui din age komchilo. Angti to cepe bose geche ekebare. (This leg is also swollen, two or three days back it was less. The ring has absolutely pressed the finger.)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vrindavan De: Angti ta cepe bose geche anguler sathe. (The ring has pressed on the finger.)

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Vrindavan De: Kholao yabe na. (It can't be removed.)

Prabhupāda: Kichu yagyata nei (He doesn't have qualifications) . . . (indistinct)

Vrindavan De: Korte cay na, lazy hoye geche. (He doesn't want to do anything, he became lazy.)

Prabhupāda: Tamane yagyata nei. (That means no qualifications.)

Vrindavan De: Asole kure hoye geche. Kure hoye geche ar jhuki niteo cay na . . . (indistinct Bengali) (Actually he became lazy. He became lazy and also he doesn't want to take a risk . . .)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) . . . sanmsare takar labh caichis? Bhagavan ke niye thak. Take dhar . . . (you are desiring to have money and profit? Just stay with the Lord. Catch him.)

Vrindavan De: Majhe, majhe sarir kharap hoy. Peter gandagal hoy, o ya cay khete sobi kore deoa hoy. Ei ruti khabona hoyto bollo, ki khicuri khabo na, or mon moto thik . . . (He feels sick sometimes. He suffers from diarrhea, so whatever he asks for eating we make. He would say I won't eat roti, or hodgepodge, whatever he wants right that . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ta bhalo, se janya to kono apatti rakhi na. Kintu jhukir sanmsare jhuki na nile ei to ekta, 'krsner samsar karo chari anacar', kato lok ke amra bojhaichi . . . amader ei samsthane to antata daily dash hajar lok prasad pete . . . anta ta. Amra korchi. (That's okay, there is no objection about that. But in this risky society without taking risk, "Krsner samsar karo chari anacar," we have said this to many people . . . in our society daily at least 10,000 people come to take prasadam. We are doing this.)

Vrindavan De: Māyāpure to dui hajarer beshi lok daily khacche (More than 2000 people are eating daily in Māyāpur) . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ye daitta nite janena se posu. (One who can't take responsibility is an animal.)

Vrindavan De: Kono . . . bora bori eta kono jhuki nite cay na. (He is like this from the beginning, he doesn't want to take risks.)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Vrindavan De: Oke sob jogar kore dile o kore debe. Seto sabai pare. (If you give him everything, he will do it. Anybody can do that.)

Prabhupāda: Tai holei korte pare. (He can only do that.)

Vrindavan De: Kichu (Some) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Sabdhanota (Caution). . .

Vrindavan De: Ar maa tao bole bole birakta hoye geche . . . o sunte cay na kichu, khali baba ke bole . . . baba nei to! Baba ke to bolbei . . . ami ki korbo babake balo.) (After warning him many times, his mother also feels disgusted to tell him anything . . . because he doesn't listen to anything, he only tells his father . . . his father is not there. I will definitely tell my father . . . what can I do? Ask the father to do it.)

Prabhupāda: Yai hok or haat theke sabdhane thakbe, boka lok. (Anyway, keep a distance from him, he is stupid.)

Vrindavan De: Na na . . . (No, no . . .)

Prabhupāda: Kakhan ki fasiye debe. (He doesn't have surety when he involves you in a false case.)

Vrindavan De: Na, na fasiye debe keno . . . (no, no, why will he involve me?)

Prabhupāda: Bollam ye hajar taka maine debo, free quarter . . . (I told him we will give you a 1,000 rupees salary, and free quarters as well . . .)

Vrindavan De: Seto bolechilam. (That I already told him.)

Prabhupāda: Ta emon rascal . . . yagyata nei jane 'korte parbo na, fail hoye yabo.' Tara ki korbe? Ekhono yodi boli . . . accha tor business ta jama, ar ekhane ese koruk, hajar takar mal roj . . . (He is such a rascal . . . he knows that he can't do this and he will fail. What does this type of person do? Now if I say . . . okay grow up your business from here, goods of 1,000 rupees daily . . .)

Vrindavan De: Ekhaneito aste pari . . . ekhaneito administration dekhte paren, dekhe amader business . . . (We can come here . . . here you can find the administration, after finding our business . . .)

Prabhupāda: Kato kaj royeche . . . maine cay debo. Yagyata anusare debo . . . (Many works are available here . . . if he wants a salary I will pay. I will pay according to his qualification . . .)

Vrindavan De: Teran oto bolle . . . (You also talked about Teran . . .)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Vrindavan De: Teran bolle na Teran? (Did you talk about Teran?)

Prabhupāda: Hm. Kato royeche, yake bole debo se kore debe. Kintu yagyata nei fail hoye yabe Teran oto du-tin hajar taka pete parto. (There are many, whoever I will ask to do it, they will do. But they will fail if they don't have qualifications. Teran could get 2 to 3 thousand rupees.)

Vrindavan De: Hya, hya. Oke bollam to ye Teran cole ya tor kiser pichu tan eto? Maa ke . . . maa ke ami dekhchi tui cole ya. (Yes, yes. I told him that you should go to Teran, what is pulling you behind so much? I will look after your mother so you can go.)

Prabhupāda: Ekhono yete pare. Teran . . . (Still he can go. Teran . . .) (end)