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771031 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771031R1-VRNDAVAN - October 31, 1977 - 86:16 Minutes

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . may request him that "Since you feel that it is very important that Prabhupāda get a little more strength, you kindly wait about two more days, and let us go like that." In other words, we're not overly eager to leave tomorrow. If the kavirāja were willing to stay here for ten days more, we'd be very happy, and then after ten days we'd go with him.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So let us try and in some way induce him to extend, as far as he can, and then we'll go on whatever day he says he must go on.

Bhakti-caru: Actually he agreed to stay about three, four more days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh. If he agrees to stay a couple more days, we should take advantage of that to give you more time to gain strength. Not that we're overly eager to rush out of here. Our point is that we want to go where he is, that we want you to remain under his treatment. That is our point. If he was willing to stay . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, if after all he wants to go, why not leave earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the whole idea of going is that the medicine is supposed to be having effect. So the longer we have for the medicine to take effect, the stronger you should become. And the stronger you become, the easier will be the journey. It would only be a question of one or two days extra, because in any case he'll want to leave after a few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . some rest, back side, I can sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With some rest?

Bhavānanda: Something to rest against on his back. Then he can sit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, and in any case we were going to purchase three seats for you, for Your Divine Grace, so that you can lay down conveniently in the plane also. No harm in taking . . . Because one thing you have to remember: the entire journey will take ten hours, so you should conserve your strength by laying down as far as possible. Here you can sit up for two hours because the bed is stationary, and then you can always be resting. But this will be a ten-hour journey. So we should try to take every possible means to allow you to be comfortable the whole way and to relax as much as possible.

Prabhupāda: Give me some rest, back side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pillows. There's a couple in that room, also in the palanquin.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhavānanda: Just setting it up, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (aside:) We just have to move your bag. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali to Bhakti-caru)

Bhakti-caru: (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) Prabhupāda is asking if you (indistinct—mic moving).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Śrīla Prabhupāda seems to be feeling a little bit of benefit already from the treatment. (Bhakti-caru translates to kavirāja) So he's . . . He feels a little confident under your care. So he's feeling that whenever you like to go to Calcutta, as you have other important business there, that you take him with you and we'll all come.

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi explaining to kavirāja)

Kavirāja: (Hindi to Prabhupāda)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is that Prabhupāda does not—neither we feel confident at all—to have Prabhupāda treated by anyone else even in the interim period. (Bhakti-caru translates; kavirāja answers—someone whispers translation to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) The problem is that if some assistant is here, if in case there's some problem develops, then the assistant has to become the one who gives a diagnosis, and we don't trust any assistant. (Bhakti-caru translates; kavirāja answers)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying that the main disease is being taken care of, but there might be some secondary ailments like a cough or like passing stool. Someone has to take care of these sort of things, the secondary effects. But the main thing he is giving the medicine, and that he's going to give.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the fact is that no matter how expert one may be, sometimes the body reacts in a certain way. Sometimes the body may react in a way which was not foreseen. And then we are at the mercy of this assistant. And that we do not want. This assistant is . . . We are not very anxious about it. (Bhakti-caru translates; kavirāja answers) No person of any great position would ever place themselves under an assistant like that. (Bhakti-caru translates) Never. If Morarji Desai was to be treated, he would never allow that assistant to touch him. (Bhakti-caru translates) We prefer to take the risk . . . (kavirāja interrupts) You can explain this point. We prefer to take the risk of traveling than the risk of being treated by that assistant. (Bhakti-caru translates) Because if you are personally present, there's less risk. (Prabhupāda comments; Bhakti-caru translates and explains travel plans) Here's what it will entail. From here we will go in the car, a very good, big Western car with a mattress in the back seat, and Prabhupāda will be laying down. You can explain that. (Bhakti-caru translates) We'll drive slowly. Then we'll have a wheelchair at the airport. The car will go right up to the plane and the wheelchair . . . We'll carry Prabhupāda right into a seat, and he can lay down in the three seats. Then again we'll take him off the plane. Immediately he'll lay down in the car and go to Māyāpur. (Bhakti-caru translates; kavirāja comments) (Svarūpa Dāmodara tells Tamāla Kṛṣṇa they are talking about the climate) There there's open air. Here we have to keep everything closed. Cold draft is coming here. And also there all the vegetables are grown fresh on our land. Plus change of place is also nice for improved health. Prabhupāda is accustomed every three days to go to another country or another city. (Bhakti-caru translates, kavirāja answers and says something to Prabhupāda) We will have about ten of us traveling. There will be at least ten of us traveling, so we will give him all . . . (Bhakti-caru translates) (Svarūpa Dāmodara tells Tamāla Kṛṣṇa that the kavirāja said Prabhupāda cannot sit)

Bhakti-caru: He said Prabhupāda cannot sit. He'll give a medicine for heart, so that if there is any jerking or things, it won't effect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore we want him to take Prabhupāda. (Bhakti-caru translates)

Bhakti-caru: He says in this condition he can even take Prabhupāda to London. (chuckling) He was thinking that due to the climatic condition here, he could have improved better, because it's a dry climate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where? Here?

Bhakti-caru: Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As opposed to . . .

Bhakti-caru: Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The climate in Māyāpur is damp now?

Bhakti-caru: Bengal is little damp as compared to North India, I mean U.P.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These days here. But unfortunately you cannot stay here. (Bhakti-caru translates, kavirāja answers) (whispered comments by Svarūpa Dāmodara as he translates for Tamāla Kṛṣṇa)

Bhakti-caru: I was telling him that . . . I mean, that he's facing great difficulty preparing the medicines also here. He says that it's been done; dose of medicine for twenty days has been prepared. Like today also he has got to go for six hours, and he's going to make . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main point is that we would very much be glad if he is able to periodically, every day or every other day, whatever the requirement, to check up on Prabhupāda. What we are afraid is that for twenty days he will not be present to check up. This other man is not competent.

Bhakti-caru: No, he didn't say it in that relation also. He just said . . . I told him that medicine is a big problem. (Bengali; kavirāja answers) He says during these last three days there has been only development.

Kavirāja: Progress.

Bhakti-caru: Only progress.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we haven't seen anything regressive.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And Prabhupāda is taking rest also, quite comfortably.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It appears hopeful.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Bhakti-caru)

Bhakti-caru: He says that he could have been cured in ten days here, but there it will take twenty days to a month due to the climatic condition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that due to climatic condition, what would take ten days to cure here will take twenty days to thirty days in Māyāpur. The climate is not . . . (kavirāja—Hindi) But the real issue is this. The real issue is that although we were sitting here in the best climate, Prabhupāda was getting worse until he came. So the real point is not the climate but the doctor. (Bhakti-caru translates; kavirāja comments in Hindi—laughter)

Prabhupāda: So you arrange tomorrow?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Bhakti-caru: Tomorrow or day after, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It may be better the day after, if you give us one extra day for booking. I don't know if we can get that many seats. If we leave the day after tomorrow morning?

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So we'll arrange the seats. You want to show that urine color? You have some sample you kept?

Bhakti-caru: Yes. I'll ask him.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . (indistinct)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Hṛdayānanda: The most important thing is that the urine is not decreasing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The urine was a little brown today. You can explain.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Prabhupāda and Bhakti-caru) (laughter)

Bhakti-caru: He says Prabhupāda is doing all this . . . (indistinct) . . . pastime. (break)

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ḍāb? (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He's asking whether Śrīla Prabhupāda would like to take some ḍāb water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Śrīla Prabhupāda reply?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said no.

Bhakti-caru: He said he doesn't have the desire to drink.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cow milk.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cow urine?

Bhakti-caru: Did he get oil at night?

Bhavānanda: An oil massage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to do with the cow urine?

Bhakti-caru: Cow urine, that . . . (kavirāja interrupts) How is the stool?

Śatadhanya: It was soft and a medium amount.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What color was it?

Śatadhanya: It was brown, dark brown.

Kavirāja: Huh? Brown-colored.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dark brown. Dark color. You have to ex . . .

Śatadhanya: And it was soft.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Not watery, but . . .

Śatadhanya: It was soft.

Kavirāja: (Hindi with Prabhupāda about juice)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just drinking fruit juice, it doesn't seem like Prabhupāda will get much strength. (Bhakti-caru translates)

Kavirāja: (Hindi about milk, barley and coughing; Prabhupāda answers; kavirāja discusses heart tonic)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi—asks Prabhupāda about parikramā)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi with kavirāja and Prabhupāda discussing 737 plane and journeying to Māyāpur)

(lots of indistinct background conversation among devotees)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda wants to sit up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with long pauses) (Prabhupāda being bathed)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, after bathing you'll go on parikramā? (aside:) You can inform the temple that Prabhupāda will go on parikramā. You feel satisfied with this kavirāja, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (break)

Bhavānanda: . . . over there. We'll bring fresh gaṅgā-jala every day. Sweetest. When I was on the boat preaching, I never drank anything but gaṅgā-jala. I took my bath in the Gaṅgā three times a day. So spiritually enlivening.

Prabhupāda: Three times you were taking?

Bhavānanda: My bath.

Prabhupāda: Oh. When is your date for appearing in the court?

Bhavānanda: Twenty-ninth of December, which is the appearance day of your Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. We have to appear that day.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-ninth December.

Bhavānanda: Twenty-ninth December.

Bhakti-caru: It's a long way to go, actually.

Bhavānanda: Long way.

Bhakti-caru: About two months.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Two months. That's in Navadvīpa?

Bhavānanda: In Krishnanagar. The magistrate who is hearing the case is a real gentleman—very kind, understanding. He had been to Māyāpur about three or four months before this incident. He came with his wife and children. We gave him very nice prasādam and showed him the movie "Hare Kṛṣṇa People." And on the twenty-fifth of November, that's Rāsa-pūrṇimā festival, and that is big day at Māyāpur. In three days probably over half million people will come to the temple. We sell so many books, magazines. It never used to be like that, Śrīla Prabhupāda, until you built this center. Now the Rāsa-pūrṇimā festival has turned into a big, big event in Bengal. Everyone comes to Māyāpur on, like, pilgrimage, just like Dol-pūrṇimā. Thousands and thousands and thousands of people, they come. Twenty-fifth of November.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, in Vṛndāvana, it's . . . (break)

Ānanda Mahārāja: (long Bengali conversation with Prabhupāda; discussion includes references to Māyāpur, deities, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Godbrothers; Prabhupāda and Ānanda Mahārāja chant together gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi jebā jāne cintāmaṇi, tāra hoy braja-bhūme bās) (break) Who is here?

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Upendra: Huh, Śrīla Prabhupāda? In English?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Oh. Give him some fruits.

Upendra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Either whole fruit or . . .

Upendra: Either . . .?

Prabhupāda: Whatever is available . . . (Bengali with Ānanda Mahārāja; discussion includes references to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda Prabhu, Śivānanda Sena, saṅkīrtana, Māyāpur darśana) (break) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa? Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Upendra: He's here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Give him . . . (break) (Bengali) (to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) I have asked to come to Māyāpur, and he has agreed. So today give him twenty-five.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thirty-five.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-five. Okay. Remember that Gītā Pratiṣṭhāna conference? So it's starting tomorrow. I just happened to notice Mr. Ramkrishna Bajaj is here and Shriman Narayan is here. So probably tomorrow they'll want to come and see you.

Prabhupāda: Where they are beginning?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're all staying in the guesthouse. They've rented the whole guesthouse. The conference is being held in the same room that they held the science conference. It's a very good credit for us that they're doing this. I just thought I would inform Your Divine Grace. So I'll just give him now twenty-five rupees.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali with Ānanda Mahārāja) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You know, the fact that he turned to Communism . . . Probably he's intelligent but frustrated. That's why they turn to this Communism. And he has a very good upbringing, so much association. I mean Vrindavan had no association, but M.M. had a lot of association, not only with Your Divine Grace but with your Guru Mahārāja and Godbrothers. So perhaps with proper, little cultivation, he might . . .

Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme and ask him, and if he wants to discuss it, please come and see me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. But I won't have the amendment to the scheme until tomorrow night.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Amendment you can give later on. You can give the scheme.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I think I have a copy of it. All right. Yeah, that's good, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then the letter will be better. I was thinking it should have . . . this first thing I write should include that scheme.

Prabhupāda: You give him the scheme. Ask him to come and discuss first.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll do that. It's not very difficult for him to come to Māyāpur. All right.

Prabhupāda: So they can go to the temple now, this saṅkīrtana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let us go to the temple?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to go to the temple now?

Prabhupāda: Myself?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean . . . You mean the devotees here?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want them to go into the temple and perform kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. And you'll hear it from here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. Temple without kīrtana doesn't have full life. Bhavānanda Mahārāja was just saying that this evening. The kīrtana party from Māyāpur, they went back today. Otherwise, every night they've been doing kīrtana for about five hours. Today they're not here because they're returning to Māyāpur. I was thinking today how you've always taken care of us so much and served us so much all of these years that now Kṛṣṇa is giving us a small little opportunity to just do a little service to you.

Prabhupāda: How many men, they have come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard that somewhere between a hundred and 150. They reserved all the rooms of the guesthouse. I told Bhakti-prema Swami to speak there on the subject of Fifteenth Chapter, fifteenth verse,

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedānta-kṛd veda-vid eva cāham
(BG 15.15)

Prabhupāda: They are looking after the book?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are they looking after the book table?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll have to find out from Viśāla how his book sales are doing.

Prabhupāda: Hundred-fifty men?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I've been told between a hundred and a hundred and fifty. There's a lecture in the temple now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The kīrtana can't be done in the temple just now because there's a lecture there.

Prabhupāda: Lecture?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Every evening there's lecture.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagavad-gītā lecture every evening in the temple.

Prabhupāda: That is also kīrtana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So I'll inform the organizer that when Ramkrishnajī and Shriman Narayan come, to inform them that they can come and see you. (end).