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[[Category:1976 - Conversations]]
<div class="code">760907g2.vrn</div>
[[Category:1976 - Lectures and Conversations]]
[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-09 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 20.01 to 30.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Conversations|1976]]'''</div>
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Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That Blitz article, I wrote a reply and sent it to Krishna Modi, the member of Parliament and he's going to discuss it with the other members of Parliament. What I did...


Prabhupāda: But this article is in our favor.
<div class="code">760907G1-VRNDAVAN - September 07, 1976 - 20:28 Minutes</div>


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the previous one.


Prabhupāda: So but Mr. Modi said that we don't bother about this.
(Garden Conversation)


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, he'll reply. So I gave him the point. He wanted me to give him the point and the right answers and then he will reply.


Prabhupāda: What are the points?
<mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1976/760907G1-VRNDAVAN_mono.mp3</mp3player>


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read the whole letter you? It's a four page letter.


Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: . . . of United Nation. <span style="color:#ff9933">Ye practically dekha hai hindu, musalman, christian, jew, african sab ekatrit hue the.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(We saw practically Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Africans—everyone had gathered.)</span>


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Dear Shri Modiji. Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Blitz issue of August 21, 1976, an article under the heading of "Blitz Tears the Mask of Ungodly Face of Kṛṣṇa Cult" appeared. This article appeared on page 3 of the issue and was written by A. Ragwan of Blitz Delhi Bureau. We beg to state that this was a mischievous article in which the newspaper accused us incorrectly. It is our firm opinion that the purpose of this article was simply to defame ISKCON because it is engaged in spreading God consciousness based on the Vedic scriptures. For your information, ISKCON is a registered society with the government of India. This society..."
Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor: Real United Nations.


Prabhupāda: For your information we beg to submit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The real United Nation. ''Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu'' ([[BG 18.54 (1972)|BG 18.54]]). <span style="color:#ff9933">Udhar bhi ho sakega.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(It can happen there also.)</span''> Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna''. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nation . . .


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. For your information... Before that I have said. "For your information ISKCON is a registered society with the government of India."
Hari-śauri: Oh, Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page.


Prabhupāda: No, no, "for your infor..." It is not completed. "For your information..." What is that?
Prabhupāda: Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that "It is a dog's barking association." (laughter) It was published.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is a sentence.
Dr. Kapoor: Published.


Prabhupāda: Okay.
Hari-śauri: Front page. (laughter)


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "This society was formed strictly for the purpose of spreading God consciousness. We briefly submit below the misleading information as reported by Blitz and humbly inform you of the fact." What I've done is I've shown each point that Blitz has incorrectly said and then responded to it. Should I read? Okay. "Point one. Blitz Ungodly Face of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. ISKCON: The International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is a worldwide community of devotees practicing the Vedic teachings, the eternal science of rendering devotional service to Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The Society was founded by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, a pure devotee of God, who is coming down in paramparā started by Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago. In other words, the roots of this movement trace back to at least five thousand years. It is not a modern concoction. In India our Society is registered under the Society Registration Act #21 of 1860. As we are a registered nonprofit organization, we are required to maintain complete account of all donations received, both within India and from abroad. Thus keep a complete account of all our expenses. Our accounts are audited every year and submitted to the income tax authorities and the charity commissioner. Very briefly, the main object of the Society, as registered with the government is..." I've given them the three main points from your memorandum of the association. "To advance, transmit, and spread the ethical and philosophical principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, as revealed in the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the doctrines and the observances which serve to promote and manifest the said ethical and philosophical principles in the furtherance of the subject. To build or to assist in building temples, schools, colleges, hospitals, and other buildings in connection with or for the advancement of the objects of the Society and to maintain, alter, and improve the same, including existing buildings, and to furnish and equip the same. To print, publish, sell, or cause to be printed, published or sold, or to distribute books, booklets, leaflets, daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, or yearly newspapers, magazines, or other periodicals for the purpose of giving information for the work of the Society. We refrain from four categories of sinful activities, such as meat-eating, intoxication, gambling, and illicit sex life. Furthermore, our entire life is dedicated to reading, chanting, and preaching about Kṛṣṇa. We rise at 4 a.m. all over the world. So how can Blitz say that we are ungodly when we are following Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's teachings?" This is my reply to point one. It's okay?
Prabhupāda: And he added something, that "Swami is hounding."


Prabhupāda: Yes, this is nice. Very good.
Hari-śauri: Yes, the heading was, "His Divine Grace has come here to hound us." And then the article was Prabhupāda describing how the United Nations was a collection of dogs barking. (laughter)


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Point two. Blitz And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg..." Just for your information Prabhupāda, MRA and Anand Marg were banned organizations for murders...
Prabhupāda: My point was that if you bring some dogs and ask them, "My dear dogs, sit down here peacefully. Don't bark. Don't create trouble." Will they do? Will they do?


Prabhupāda: MRA also?
Dr. Kapoor: No.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is banned now. So Blitz said, "And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg." So ISKCON is replying. ISKCON: "Blitz is trying to link us with banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg. We challenge Blitz to show any of our activity that is dangerous to the Indian society. Our only business is to follow Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is all we are asking others to do also. We're not engaged in any political activity either. So how can Blitz compare us to banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg?" So this is my reply to point two. "Point three. Blitz: ISKCON was founded in New York in July, 1966. ISKCON: Yes, ISKCON was registered in New York by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America at the advanced age of 70 to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was ordered so by his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda, the founder- ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha institutions in India, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western countries. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda strongly desired that the whole world accept Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings and therefore he ordered his most educated and sincere disciple, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in 1936 to spread these teachings to the Western world. Bhaktivedanta Swami started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā in 1936. When the late prime minister, Shri Lal Bahadur Sastri, saw Bhaktivedanta Swami's Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is doing valuable work, and his books are a significant contribution to the salvation of mankind.' Presently Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, a division of ISKCON has published over sixty books of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. These include Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 25 volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, 17 volumes. These books have been acclaimed by both Indian and Western scholars. The books are being used by about three thousand universities all over the world, including Oxford, Cambridge, and Harvard universities. In India, in the last four months, close to four hundred institutes have placed standing orders on Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books."
Prabhupāda: If you keep them dogs, how it is possible they will be peaceful?


Prabhupāda: Calcutta University purchased.
Indian man: So long as they are dogs it is not possible.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I said four hundred universities. I didn't... "Even Russian scholars have praised Bhaktivedanta Swami's books and placed orders. For your information, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is the leading seller of books of Vedic culture outside India."
Prabhupāda: It is not possible. And so long one is in the bodily concept of life—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that"—and all of them go to the United Nation assembly . . . so what is the difference when a dog thinks that "I am dog. I am this dog," and an American or Indian thinks "I am a . . ."? Where is the difference? So as American, as Indian, as German, as Chinese, if they go there, they remain animal, and how there can be peace? That is not possible. And the peace formula is given by Kṛṣṇa: ''bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram'', ''suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām'' ([[BG 5.29 (1972)|BG 5.29]]). When one understands Kṛṣṇa is ''suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ'', ''jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati''. That is ''śāntim''. So if you keep them as Americans or Indians or this or that, how there can be peace?


Prabhupāda: Topmost publisher of religious and philosophical... In the world. That is admitted.
Hari-śauri: That was front page.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I said outside India because Gītā Press... It becomes disputable in India. So this was my reply to point three. "Point four. Blitz: Most work in India is done by foreign devotees. ISKCON: The founder- ācārya of ISKCON is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, who is an Indian. His chief secretary for India is also an Indian. In total, ISKCON has presently about 270 devotees in India, of which at least 150 or about 60% are Indian. Our programs in India have been praised by all leaders. The chief minister of Andhra Pradesh, while inaugurating our Hyderabad center on August 18, 1976, said, "History appears to be repeating itself. One found a revival of temple construction, temple worship, and Gītā-prayana in advanced countries like U.S.A."
Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) "He's here to hound us." (laughs)


Prabhupāda: Not Gītā-prayana. Gītā-parāyaṇa.  
Prabhupada: <span style="color:#ff9933">Publicity to khoob hota hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(A lot of publicity is done.)</span>


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Parāyaṇa. Okay. I just copied the spelling from the paper, Parāyaṇa. Okay, I'll change it.
Dr Kapoor: (reading from paper) "His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is here to save us from a dog's life." (laughter) "He's here to save us from a dog's life. For unless we cultivate some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality."


Prabhupāda: No no, that is understood.
Hari-śauri: This was the New York Ratha-yātrā. This was in New York Times.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "He complimented ISKCON, for disseminating the Vedic culture. West Bengal government officials have praised our agricultural efforts. The principle officer of agriculture of Nadia District in West Bengal said that our Māyāpura farm is receiving attention of nearby farmers, and this farm is acting as a demonstration for them. So the statement that foreign devotees are running ISKCON in India is misleading. Point five, Blitz: Big business in Spiritual Sky. Boss of West Bengal is Gregory M. Scharf. ISKCON: In Māyāpura our devotees make handloom saris, dhotīs, and gāmchās. All over the world our devotees wear the traditional Indian dress of dhotīs, kurtās, and saris. It is our spiritual master's desire that all our devotees overseas only wear clothes made by our devotees in Māyāpura. Spiritual Sky sales and services was formed just to send our Māyāpura handloom and other necessities only to our centers overseas. In return our overseas centers send Māyāpura donations. Even Gandhiji wanted every Indian to be self-sufficient. This is what we are trying to do. We produce our own food and clothing. Instead of criticizing, Blitz should publicize these activities so that others can follow. Gregory M. Scharf's spiritual name is Gargamuni Swami, and he is an initiated disciple of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Blitz has tried to portray him as a businessman who's wearing saffron clothes to deceive people. He is a sannyāsī since 1966. Point six, Blitz: Substantial amounts of foreign money is being received by ISKCON India Limited. ISKCON: First of all, our society is registered and called ISKCON, not ISKCON India Limited." They are purposefully being sarcastic. "It is not a business house. Yes, we do receive remittances from abroad. Every paisa that has been remitted from abroad has come through the reserve bank of India. Bhaktivedanta Swami has written over eighty books which are being sold in every country in the world. These books are selling twelve doubled(?) sixty thousand dollars daily which is about five lakhs. We have over a hundred centers all over the world and all these centers are being run by book sales. In the last three years, Bhaktivedanta Book Trust has published over two million hardbound big books. About three and a half million softbound medium size books and about fifteen million magazines on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So you can see the wide acceptance of these books. Out of the 2,800 major universities in America, about ninety percent have purchased one or more of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books. Occasionally we receive contributions. This is not in cash but in kind. For example, Alfred Ford donated two buildings to our Society, one in Honolulu Hawaii, and the other in Detroit, America. In London..."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Ratha-yātrā is held on Seventh Avenue . . . (several devotees talking at once)


Prabhupāda: Thank you. You can go and play. You cannot understand.
Prabhupāda: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Go and play. "In London, George Harrison donated a big castle which is now called Bhaktivedanta Manor. We have purchased many buildings and converted them to temples from the sale of our books. What is wrong if a portion of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust sales are transferred to India for construction of temples? Fifty percent of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust income is spent for further publishing and the other fifty percent is spent to build temples all over the world. In fact, Blitz should appreciate this because Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books are bringing valuable overseas currency into the country without any cost to the Indian public. Point seven. Blitz: In Bombay they have put up a temple with a barbed fence around it. ISKCON There is no barbed wire around the temple. We invite Blitz to show us the barbed wire." There's no barbed wire. "Point eight. Blitz: Already rupees twelve lakhs have been spent on an unfinished temple in Vṛndāvana. ISKCON: Blitz does not know that the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple in Vṛndāvana was completed and officially inaugurated by Dr. Chenna Reddy, governor of U.P., in April, 1975." They are saying the temple is still being made. "Point nine. Blitz: Their major center seems to be in Orissa, the land of princes and paupers. They have built a center close to an atomic energy commission complex. ISKCON: How foolish. Our major center is not in Orissa, but in Śrīdhāma Māyāpura in West Bengal. Māyāpura is the birthplace of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, an incarnation of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. We are coming in Lord Caitanya's disciplic succession and therefore we want to develop Māyāpura and make this an international center. In Orissa, we do have two devotees living in three huts in Bhuvaneśvara. They are living on a piece of land that was donated by one of our life members from Calcutta. If at all it is near the Atomic Energy Commission, it is only by coincidence."
Hari-śauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."


Prabhupāda: It was donated by the late governor and Central Minister. Nityananda Kananda. (?)
Dr. Kapoor: "Where East Meets West." Ah.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He donated it. Okay, I'll write down his name them. "Gaura-Govinda Swami, a 45 year old retired teacher from Orissa is in charge of our Bhuvaneśvara center." So they'll know. "Point ten..."
Hari-śauri: And this one is in South Africa. (guests look at article)


Prabhupāda: So that land was donated by a prominent man. Nityananda Kananda (?) was central government minister and later on governor of Gujarat. And he often comes to see me in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone—government official, police, public—all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our proposition was . . . How many miles?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Point ten. Blitz: It has started taking interest in politics. It has started a political party in U.S.A. called "In God We Trust" party. ISKCON: ISKCON is not involved in politics at all anywhere in the world. Two American devotees did contest some civic elections for which a party called 'In God We Trust' was formed. The purpose of that campaign was to remind everyone to remember the Lord at all times, as everything belongs to God. Our spiritual master dissolved In God We Trust party in U.S.A. four years ago. Furthermore, there were never any plans to set up In God We Trust in India. We challenge Blitz to show us any evidence to support their claim. Point eleven. Blitz: As far back as 1971, the Maharastra government has taken action against the foreign devotees who have chosen to overstay in Bombay and elsewhere. ISKCON: This statement is also incorrect. The Maharastra government has never taken any action against our devotees. Point twelve. Blitz: The government has decided to stop specialized facilities rendered to foreign devotees seeking to popularize Kṛṣṇa in India. ISKCON: We are very grateful to the government of India for giving us facilities for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government has not withdrawn any special facilities that have been given to us earlier. So I'm sure you can see by now the extent to which Blitz has misreported ISKCON activities in India. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that one day in every town and village of the world this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement would be spread. The Vedic culture is India's real heritage and we want to popularize it in every corner of the world. Even in black Africa we have locals that have joined."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From Washington Square Park . . . how many miles? At least four or five miles.


Prabhupāda: Every corner of the world for world peace.
Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete, from one end to the other.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, for "world peace." Do you have a pen? No.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The government had sealed it off.


Hari-śauri: You don't have any light.
Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I need my pen. It's missing. I found it.
Prabhupāda: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement.  


Prabhupāda: Because this is the only platform for united nations which is practically demonstrated.
Indian man: Afraid of.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the only platform for...
Prabhupāda: They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.


Prabhupāda: United Nations which is practically demonstrated.
Dr. Kapoor: . . . China?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...is practical... (writing down)
Prabhupāda: <span style="color:#ff9933">China me bhi kiya hai na.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(It has been done in China also.)</span>


Prabhupāda: Our movement, all over the world they have joined. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and Africans. All, everywhere.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they like Prabhupāda's books. Russian scholars have praised Prabhupāda's books. I was in Russia two months ago. They have praised Prabhupāda's books very much.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "ISKCON has devotees in all parts of the world in all nationalities, including Muslims."
Indian man: Sir, what is your opinion about Sai Baba? (laughter)


Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu-bhūteṣu.  
Prabhupāda: According to ''śāstra'', <span style="color:#ff9933">koi to shastra unka basis hai nahi.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(No scripture is the basis of their philosophy.)</span> Jugglery.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Should the government need any further information we will be more than happy and pleased to cooperate in all respects. With kindest regards. Your sincerely, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Secretary, ISKCON." It's okay?
Indian man: No ''avatāra'' has declared so far that "I'm ''avatāra''."


Prabhupāda: Yes. It is nicely done.
Prabhupāda: He is . . . What is called ''avatāra''?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is a point by point reply. So now no one can open their mouth.
Indian man: But he has declared that "I am ''avatāra''."


Prabhupāda: Oh yes. It is very intelligent. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He has no, nothing on the ''śāstra'' basically. And anyone who has no ''śāstra'' basics, he's useless. ''Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti'' ([[BG 16.23 (1972)|BG 16.23]]). He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam'' about this kind of ''guru''. They have been condemned in ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam''. I think you'll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned. (break) Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery, eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I've not seen.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And I thought we'd give both Blitz and ISKCON so you can see right there.
Indian man: I don't know. He does some kind of trick.


Prabhupāda: So if Mr. Modi discusses this it will be a great help.
Prabhupāda: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now the other book I want to write, it's facts about ISKCON, or what is ISKCON. We will call that booklet "What is ISKCON." And then in a question and answer form, give all the answers. What is ISKCON, where does ISKCON get its income from, who are the people who run ISKCON, everything that they ask.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.


Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he . . .


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it came from Delhi from shopping.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases, and they get cured.


Prabhupāda: They are shopping from Delhi?
Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence? Huh?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He was supposed to go to Delhi, few items. They're better and cheaper sometimes. So now I'll work on the other booklet which the defense minister wanted, "What is ISKCON." A small, like "Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is Authorized," on that form with some reviews.
Hari-śauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car, and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, "Oh, you have been in an accident, and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left, and therefore you were not injured." Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.


Prabhupāda: You can start this fan. No, no. Yes.
Prabhupāda: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he's so powerful?


Hari-śauri: This one?
Dr. Kapoor: That is very easy. I can also do that. (laughter) I know the trick.


Prabhupāda: Yes. It is stopped.
Prabhupāda: ''Ācchā''?


Caraṇāravindam: The mains has been turned off, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There is no water coming from the mains.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the trick?


Hari-śauri: They've turned the water off somewhat.
Dr. Kapoor: I'll not tell it to you. (laughter)


Prabhupāda: No, no, it is dropping.
Prabhupāda: No. These tricky things are . . . they have no . . .


Hari-śauri: No, it's raining.
Hari-śauri: Sometimes he conjures up different items in his hand. Like he can conjure up a watch. Or there's a particular type of nut that is found in Nepal. So some American scientist was trying to get him to . . .


Prabhupāda: Oh. Then we cannot sit. [break] ...book is going on. (Bengali) This is our childhood song. (Bengali) The small drops of rain falling, now their will be flood in the river. (Bengali) [break] We know even in October sometimes there are rains. Because the Durgā Pūjā takes place in October. From our childhood we have experience. During Durgā Pūjā there was raining, fog.
Prabhupāda: (aside) You have found out that portion?


Hari-śauri: We haven't got rid of those monkeys.
Pradyumna: I'm just, I'm getting . . .


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They've gone?
Hari-śauri: They were trying to get him to give some examples. So he refused. Then he produced this nut in his hand. Then he closed his fist and opened it again, and the nut was there but this time it had a gold cross attached to it, like this. And then he . . .


Hari-śauri: No. There's some on the roof.
Prabhupāda: Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result?


Prabhupāda: The (indistinct) is there? In the open?
Indian man: B. N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that.


Hari-śauri: No, it's undercover.
Prabhupāda: Yes. B. N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street, and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy . . .  


Devotee: Jaya , Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Dr. Kapoor: Motorway.


Prabhupāda: Jaya .
Prabhupāda: Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.


Hari-śauri: I was just telling him the monkeys are still there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University, along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There's another six-year-old "god" called Bhagwan Shri Krishna. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six-year-old Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was producing ash with some magic.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still there? They've gone.
Prabhupāda: Ash?


Caraṇāravindam: I've just seen five minutes ago.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ash. So all the local . . . a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded, and the child's parent admitted it was bogus. Now that "god" is finished, Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was six-year-old Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, "Why should I respond to these people?"


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We know where those monkeys are coming from.
Indian man: He's angry for this . . . (indistinct)


Hari-śauri: The monkeys live on the porch. One of those porches on the guest house where Arundhatī's room is. Around the other side.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This group of professors, they're exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God.


Prabhupāda: You have not closed?
Prabhupāda: Have you got it?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not in the dome. We looked into that. It's covered. Dome's completely...
Pradyumna: Yes.


Prabhupāda: No, the top room they have not closed?
:''acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas''
:''tathā janasyāviduṣo 'budho guruḥ''
:''tvam arka-dṛk sarva-dṛśāṁ samīkṣaṇo''
:''vṛto gurur naḥ sva-gatiṁ bubhutsatām''
:([[SB 8.24.50|SB 8.24.50]])


Hari-śauri: No, they have balconies. They said... I was told that they're living on one of the balconies around the other side where Arundhatī's room is. They don't chase them away so they just stay.
Prabhupāda: What is that? ''Acakṣuḥ''?


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I just want the name of the person who gave us that land in Orissa because I'm getting this retyped.
Pradyumna: ''Acakṣuḥ''.  


Prabhupāda: The name is Nityananda Kananda.
Prabhupāda: ''Acakṣuḥ'' . . .


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kananda. What was his title before? What was he...? Ex-governor?
Pradyumna: ''Acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas''.


Prabhupāda: He was a minister in the central government, deputy minister.
Prabhupāda: ''Abudho guru''. So ''andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ'' ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). They are ''gurus''. They are blind, and they are ''guru'' for blind men. ''Abudho guru''. These have been described in the ''Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam''. If we are to accept ''guru'', so the original ''guru'' is Kṛṣṇa because He instructed Lord Brahmā, the first living creature within this universe. ''Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye'' ([[SB 1.1.1|SB 1.1.1]]). He instructed the ''ādi-kavi''. He is the ''guru'', Kṛṣṇa. And in the ''Bhagavad-gītā'' He also says, ''imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam'' ([[BG 4.1 (1972)|BG 4.1]]). So He is ''ādi-guru''. In ''Bhagavad-gītā'' also He is instructing Arjuna. He is ''ādi-guru''. So instead of this tricky, jugglery ''guru'', why not people approach Kṛṣṇa? Therefore ''acakṣur andha''. <span style="color:#ff9933">Ye sab chal raha hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(All this is going on.)</span> Read this verse again.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Deputy minister.
Pradyumna: ''Acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas tathā janasyāviduṣo 'budho guruḥ''.


Prabhupāda: Deputy minister in the central government.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Aviduṣaḥ abudho guruḥ. <span style="color:#ff9933">Ye jo moorkh hain unke liye ye to. padhe-likhe ke liye thoda hi hai. koi accha aadmi hai . . .</span> <span style="color:#128807">(These people who are foolish, it is for them—not for the educated class. One who is a good man . . .)</span>


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: During when? Approximately?
Indian man: <span style="color:#ff9933">Inke saath aaye hain, unko jaldi hai jana hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(I have come with them. They want to leave, they are in a hurry.)</span>


Prabhupāda: During Jawaharlal Nehru's time. And later on governor of Gujarat.
Prabhupada: <span style="color:#ff9933">Lao prasad lao.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Get the ''prasadam''. You can bring something . . .)</span>


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Governor of?
Pradyumna: Drink?


Prabhupāda: Gujarat. Now he's retired.
Prabhupāda: 'abi jusam . . .' <span style="color:#ff9933">nahi hamare kehane ka matlab hai.</span> <span style="color:#128807">(No, what I meant to say is, if things are very easy, why do they go the roundabout way?)</span> <span style="color:#ff9933">Bhagavān svayam bata rahe hain,</span> <span style="color:#128807">(God Himself is saying)</span> ''man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ'' ([[BG 18.68 (1972)|BG 18.68]]). <span style="color:#ff9933">To ye saral baat chod karke kiske... . peeche bhag rahe hain. 'man mana mad bhakto bhagvan swayam bata rahe hain ki hamare vishay me chintan karo, koi mushkil hai. Ab ye jo sab aaye hain bhagvan ka murti dekh rahe hain aur thoda sa chintan hoyega hi. Agar roz mandir me aaye, bhagvan ka darshan kare to man mana bhakt ho jayega aate-aate, aur ek namaskar karna hai man mana mad bhakto mad yaji, agar samarth hai to puja karo aur puja karne ke liye to bhagvan 'patram pushpam phalam toyam thoda patr do, garib se garib hai ek patr, ek phool le aao, ye koi mushkil hai, aur kuch nahi to namskar karo, aur isi me tum 'mam evaisasi . . . ye sab chod karke . . . kya baat hai hmm . . .</span>
<span style="color:#128807">(So leaving this simple process, why are you running behind something else? ''"man mana mad bhakto''" God is Himself saying that, "Meditate upon me/" Is it very difficult? Now these people who have come are seeing the Deities and definitely they will meditate a little. If you come to the temple daily and see the Deities, then coming regularly "''Man mana bhakto''" you will become a devotee. And pay your obeisances "''Man mana mad bhakto mad yaji''" and if you have the capacity, then do Deity worship. For doing worship, God has said: "''Patram pushpam phalam toyam''", little leaf, even the poorest can get leaves. A little water, a flower—is this very difficult? If not anything, then just pay respects to the Lord and in this way only you "''Mam evaisyasi''" . . . leaving all this . . . what is the matter? Hmm . . .)</span> I went to see the Ramakrishna Mission head, Prabodhananda Swami. So just by seeing me, he immediately said that Thakur was formerly Gaura Hari.


Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay, this is very good. This will get them to shut up their mouth completely. Okay.
Indian man: What Swāmījī? Gauḍīya? Gaura Hari.


Prabhupāda: So? Why you are unnecessarily...
Prabhupāda: Gaura Hari. <span style="color:#ff9933">To usi bakt hum samajh gaye kya bolta hai . . .</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Immediately I understood what he was saying . . .)</span> He said Ramakrishna Thakur, Thakur Rama . . . he was formerly Gaurasundara. Gaurasundara . . . <span style="color:#ff9933">aur Gaurasundara das Krishna bhakti prachar kiya aur phir idhar aakkarke kali puja karna shuroo kiya. Ye humko maloom hai. Nahi ye Ramkrishna kali puja karta tha. ye humko samajh me aaya. to kaun samjhe, moorkh log samajhe. aur wo Gaursundar humko bataya ki 'jare dakhe tare kaho krishna upadesh' aur phir is janm me kali puja karta hai. Ye sab chal raha hai. aur shastra me batate hain bhagvan sway (verse) ann devta jo puja karte hain wo 'hrta jnana' aur Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur iska comment diya hai 'nasht budhya' buddhi naash ho gaya hai, yehi sab doosre-doosre devta ka puja karega. To jiska buddhi naash ho gaya aisa vyakti kali puja karne ko bhagvan. Shastrta me uska buddhi naash ho gaya hai aur wo bhagvan. Ye sab chal raha hai. to ye sab kaun samjhega . . . aur humlog yehi prachar karte hain jisme do-char aadmi aa jata hai, zyada idhar-udhar ka baat karke . . . bana karke . . . 'krsnas tu bhagvan swayam'.</span>
 
<span style="color:#128807">(Gaurasundara das spread the message of devotion and came here and started worshiping mother Kali. I know this. No, this Ramakrishna worships goddess Kali. This I came to understand. Who will understand? All are fools and rascals and that Gaurasundara told us "''Jare dekhe tare kaho krishna upadesh''" and in this life he worships Kali. All this is going on. And in the scriptures it is said God himself (verse) those who worship demigods they are "''Hrta jnana''" and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura makes a comment on this "''Nasht buddhya''" they have lost their intelligence. They worship different demigods. So a person whose intelligence is lost, he worships goddess Kali and considers himself God. He has lost his intelligence scripturally and thinks he is God. This is going on. So who is going to understand all this? . . . we are preaching the science of God and 2 to 4 people come in, we don't discuss unnecessary topics . . . make up . . . "''Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam''".)</span> (end)
Hari-śauri: It's not... Just dripping a little bit. It's not so bad. I'm just wearing the cādara to keep the mosquitos off. I'm getting bitten, so I'm wearing a cādara to keep the insects away.
 
Prabhupāda: So it is coming again. (fountain starts) [break] ...very celebrated astrologer.
 
Akṣayānanda: Yes. He said, "Well, Bhaktisiddhānta Mahārāja was."
 
Prabhupāda: But he gave up.
 
Akṣayānanda: That's what I told him. Instead of Sūryasiddhānta he became Bhaktisiddhānta.
 
Prabhupāda: If he wanted he could have practiced lucratively. But he gave up.
 
Akṣayānanda: Yes, very good.
 
Prabhupāda: And he had many students. (pause) (indistinct) He dropped in the fountain?
 
Akṣayānanda: No, he's going on the outside.
 
Hari-śauri: He swims around sometimes inside.
 
Prabhupāda: They like it. But they make sound. [break] So if actually I am serious to serve Kṛṣṇa I must begin immediately.
 
Hari-śauri: So that means utilizing whatever you already know.
 
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's right. Because there is no guarantee. Suppose you are learning some art to serve Kṛṣṇa. In the meantime if death takes place...
 
Hari-śauri: Then no service.
 
Prabhupāda: Then if you could not learn the art, at the same time you miss Kṛṣṇa's service. So that is not our principle. We want to serve Kṛṣṇa, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. Whatever work you already expert, you do that. Just like he is doing. Whatever he knows, he is giving service. He's not going for sewing cloth. Because he does not know that. Why should he waste time? He knows this art, let him do. That is service. Whatever you know, Kṛṣṇa can accept any service. Kṛṣṇa is not one-sided. Because He is everything, so he can accept every service, anything. That is stated, svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya. Whatever you know, you try to please Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa's representative. The same thing. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya. Whatever you know, saṁsiddhiḥ, the perfection is, hari-toṣaṇam. So we... Whatever we already know. If he's a medical man, whatever little medical knowledge he has got, he can utilize it by serving. Why he should go to Āyur-vedic? That is not.
 
Devotee: Long time ago you wrote a letter to Jadurāṇī to do that. Jadurāṇī, she wants to do service.
 
Prabhupāda: Yes, I thought that when she first came I saw that here she has got a little tendency for painting. So I engaged immediately, that you go on painting, whatever you can. So in the beginning she was not good painter. But still I said, "Anyway, you paint Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Nityānanda. And whatever you paint, it is accepted." It is not the art, but it is the service.
 
Hari-śauri: His point was that he doesn't have any service. So he was thinking if he learned something, because he already has a medical background...
 
Prabhupāda: So let him serve in that way. If he has got a little medical background, let him utilize that.
 
Hari-śauri: Yes. He wanted to branch out into Āyur-vedic so that he could...
 
Prabhupāda: That is his whims. That is not service.
 
Hari-śauri: I'll write him a letter.
 
Caraṇāravindam: There's a toad in the fountain.
 
Prabhupāda: He has already gone?
 
Caraṇāravindam: He's been in and out. He's had his swim. He's doing service for you. I brought him three or four days ago to the garden.
 
Prabhupāda: What service he is doing?
 
Caraṇāravindam: He is eating all the bugs.
 
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
 
Caraṇāravindam: He eats bugs and those nasty flies.
 
Prabhupāda: Oh, they eat bugs?
 
Caraṇāravindam: Yes. They do very good service in gardens. Gardener's friend, the toad. Grass snakes, earthworm and the toad and frog. Gardener's friends. He'll sit there and he'll wait for a fly to come.
 
Prabhupāda: Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. One life is food for the another life. Kṛṣṇa has made such an arrangement that every living entity has got some service. So he's allowed to do the service, then he's finished by another living entity.
 
Caraṇāravindam: A big snake may come and eat him. [break]
 
Hari-śauri: They eat off fat banana leaves in Māyāpura all the time.
 
Prabhupāda: Very good. Common man in Bengal, Orissa, they'll take on banana leaves all vegetable preparations. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when he was invited by Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, he was taking on banana leaves.
 
Caraṇāravindam: I have some bitter gourd. I'm going to dry it and we can plant the seeds, karelā.
 
Prabhupāda: Karelā it is also...
 
Caraṇāravindam: Wonderful sabji.
 
Hari-śauri: Paṭola?
 
Prabhupāda: Paṭola also.
 
Hari-śauri: Can that be grown? Paṭola.
 
Prabhupāda: Paṭola, both leaves and fruits they're useful. Very useful.
 
Caraṇāravindam: What is that?
 
Hari-śauri: Little round, green, oblong shape. Looks like a small cucumber. About this long. You can see some in the kitchen. [break]
 
Prabhupāda: You give me lunch in banana leaves. Give me.
 
Hari-śauri: We were doing that in Māyāpura. I remember last time.
 
Prabhupāda: Because there are so many banana leaves. You can utilize it. One leaf is sufficient for four plates at least.
 
Caraṇāravindam: Actually I must confess, generally most days I use a bit of banana leaf to take some of your remnants on. Take a bit on a banana leaf, and then take from there. It is very handy. Actually the monkeys they come and also they eat this leaf. They often come and tear off a piece of leaf and sit on this eating them. Monkey.
 
Prabhupāda: That is destructive. They do not know.
 
Caraṇāravindam: They sit there eating them.
 
Prabhupāda: Because they do not get anything they make mischief. They're very mischievous. If they do not get any eatables they will cause mischief.
 
Caraṇāravindam: They sometimes come if a new shoot in the banana. The inside shoot, they break and take that. They seem to enjoy. I've seen them. They break it and eat it.
 
Hari-śauri: Do monkeys have any use? (laughs)
 
Prabhupāda: They have only use, their fat is very good medicine for burns. Some portion is burned, monkey fat is very good medicine. The Chinese eat their brains.
 
Caraṇāravindam: The Japanese also do that. They drink it. They drink it through straws.
 
Prabhupāda: Monkey brain?
 
Caraṇāravindam: Yes. They cut the skull off a live monkey. They cut the skull off like egg and drink the brain through straw. I read in magazine how they do this. It's very common practice now.
 
Prabhupāda: Where they get this monkeys?
 
Caraṇāravindam: The monkey's alive and as you drink its brain it dies. They think this is also sport to them. Big horrible demons.
 
Devotee: In New York, I heard...
 
Hari-śauri: Andy Warhol. Now... Before I joined the movement I was working on a mining camp and they used to serve out sheep's brains every day. It was a big favorite with the Yugoslavs. Sheep's brains and...
 
Caraṇāravindam: Hearts.
 
Prabhupāda: Living sheep and cut?
 
Hari-śauri: No, no. They kill them first. It's like the Arabs. They eat sheep's eyeballs.
 
Prabhupāda: They eat?
 
Hari-śauri: Yes. The eyeball. They think it's a great delicacy.
 
Prabhupāda: Now their delicacy their own children. [break] ...big stack of bricks, iron. Left over.
 
Hari-śauri: Sometimes they don't even finish the buildings they're building. That building across the road from our temple in New York, that's been there five years like that, half-completed.
 
Prabhupāda: Now things are deteriorating. And fire is always... (Siren bell sound:) dungdung dungdungdungdungdung-gawaawaawaa . Saṁsāra-dāvānala. Still they think that they are advanced. In one hour three times fire, still he is advanced. Therefore he is mūḍha. At least, in small city such disturbances are not... It is always gawaagawaagawaa .
 
Hari-śauri: Police, ambulance, fires.
 
Prabhupāda: How the city life is attractive we cannot understand.
 
Hari-śauri: (laughs) Ask him. He's always telling us how New York is the best place in the world.
 
Prabhupāda: You were born in New York?
 
Devotee: No.
 
Prabhupāda: That is mother and... (laughter) Jananī jana. (Sanskrit) Any rotten place, but birthplace has got some attraction.
 
Harikeśa: I feel perfectly at home there.
 
Prabhupāda: That is natural. Just like when I go to Calcutta. Therefore a sannyāsī is forbidden to live in his native place. There will be attraction. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never returned to Navadvīpa. [break] ...no striking six o'clock. Did you mark it?
 
Hari-śauri: I never hear him ring it. At least the one in the daytime. I think evenings he rings it.
 
Harikeśa: I heard the four o'clock.
 
Prabhupāda: He is not regular. That means he's another lazy fellow. All lazy fellows.
 
Harikeśa: He sits out here and he sleeps. He sleeps on the steps. I caught him last night.
 
Hari-śauri: When I was here before, sometimes I would go up to the caukidāra at night. They used to carry this big spear. A pole with a big sharp point on it. Metal point. And I would take his spear and stick it in his ribs and then he would wake up, "Oh." And then he would smile.
 
Prabhupāda: We have to maintain some paid...
 
Harikeśa: We've had so many caukidāras here and not one of them has ever... (end)
 
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Revision as of 02:18, 1 August 2023

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



760907G1-VRNDAVAN - September 07, 1976 - 20:28 Minutes


(Garden Conversation)



Prabhupāda: . . . of United Nation. Ye practically dekha hai hindu, musalman, christian, jew, african sab ekatrit hue the. (We saw practically Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Africans—everyone had gathered.)

Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor: Real United Nations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The real United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). Udhar bhi ho sakega. (It can happen there also.)</span> Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nation . . .

Hari-śauri: Oh, Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page.

Prabhupāda: Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that "It is a dog's barking association." (laughter) It was published.

Dr. Kapoor: Published.

Hari-śauri: Front page. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And he added something, that "Swami is hounding."

Hari-śauri: Yes, the heading was, "His Divine Grace has come here to hound us." And then the article was Prabhupāda describing how the United Nations was a collection of dogs barking. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: My point was that if you bring some dogs and ask them, "My dear dogs, sit down here peacefully. Don't bark. Don't create trouble." Will they do? Will they do?

Dr. Kapoor: No.

Prabhupāda: If you keep them dogs, how it is possible they will be peaceful?

Indian man: So long as they are dogs it is not possible.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible. And so long one is in the bodily concept of life—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that"—and all of them go to the United Nation assembly . . . so what is the difference when a dog thinks that "I am dog. I am this dog," and an American or Indian thinks "I am a . . ."? Where is the difference? So as American, as Indian, as German, as Chinese, if they go there, they remain animal, and how there can be peace? That is not possible. And the peace formula is given by Kṛṣṇa: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). When one understands Kṛṣṇa is suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ, jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. That is śāntim. So if you keep them as Americans or Indians or this or that, how there can be peace?

Hari-śauri: That was front page.

Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) "He's here to hound us." (laughs)

Prabhupada: Publicity to khoob hota hai. (A lot of publicity is done.)

Dr Kapoor: (reading from paper) "His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is here to save us from a dog's life." (laughter) "He's here to save us from a dog's life. For unless we cultivate some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality."

Hari-śauri: This was the New York Ratha-yātrā. This was in New York Times.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Ratha-yātrā is held on Seventh Avenue . . . (several devotees talking at once)

Prabhupāda: They admitted: "This is the East and West meeting."

Hari-śauri: "Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West."

Dr. Kapoor: "Where East Meets West." Ah.

Hari-śauri: And this one is in South Africa. (guests look at article)

Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone—government official, police, public—all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our proposition was . . . How many miles?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From Washington Square Park . . . how many miles? At least four or five miles.

Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete, from one end to the other.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The government had sealed it off.

Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement.

Indian man: Afraid of.

Prabhupāda: They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.

Dr. Kapoor: . . . China?

Prabhupāda: China me bhi kiya hai na. (It has been done in China also.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they like Prabhupāda's books. Russian scholars have praised Prabhupāda's books. I was in Russia two months ago. They have praised Prabhupāda's books very much.

Indian man: Sir, what is your opinion about Sai Baba? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, koi to shastra unka basis hai nahi. (No scripture is the basis of their philosophy.) Jugglery.

Indian man: No avatāra has declared so far that "I'm avatāra."

Prabhupāda: He is . . . What is called avatāra?

Indian man: But he has declared that "I am avatāra."

Prabhupāda: He has no, nothing on the śāstra basically. And anyone who has no śāstra basics, he's useless. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about this kind of guru. They have been condemned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think you'll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned. (break) Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery, eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I've not seen.

Indian man: I don't know. He does some kind of trick.

Prabhupāda: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.

Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases, and they get cured.

Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence? Huh?

Hari-śauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car, and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, "Oh, you have been in an accident, and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left, and therefore you were not injured." Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.

Prabhupāda: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he's so powerful?

Dr. Kapoor: That is very easy. I can also do that. (laughter) I know the trick.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the trick?

Dr. Kapoor: I'll not tell it to you. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No. These tricky things are . . . they have no . . .

Hari-śauri: Sometimes he conjures up different items in his hand. Like he can conjure up a watch. Or there's a particular type of nut that is found in Nepal. So some American scientist was trying to get him to . . .

Prabhupāda: (aside) You have found out that portion?

Pradyumna: I'm just, I'm getting . . .

Hari-śauri: They were trying to get him to give some examples. So he refused. Then he produced this nut in his hand. Then he closed his fist and opened it again, and the nut was there but this time it had a gold cross attached to it, like this. And then he . . .

Prabhupāda: Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result?

Indian man: B. N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. B. N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street, and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy . . .

Dr. Kapoor: Motorway.

Prabhupāda: Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University, along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There's another six-year-old "god" called Bhagwan Shri Krishna. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six-year-old Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was producing ash with some magic.

Prabhupāda: Ash?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ash. So all the local . . . a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded, and the child's parent admitted it was bogus. Now that "god" is finished, Bhagwan Shri Krishna. He was six-year-old Śrī Kṛṣṇa. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, "Why should I respond to these people?"

Indian man: He's angry for this . . . (indistinct)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This group of professors, they're exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God.

Prabhupāda: Have you got it?

Pradyumna: Yes.

acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas
tathā janasyāviduṣo 'budho guruḥ
tvam arka-dṛk sarva-dṛśāṁ samīkṣaṇo
vṛto gurur naḥ sva-gatiṁ bubhutsatām
(SB 8.24.50)

Prabhupāda: What is that? Acakṣuḥ?

Pradyumna: Acakṣuḥ.

Prabhupāda: Acakṣuḥ . . .

Pradyumna: Acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas.

Prabhupāda: Abudho guru. So andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are gurus. They are blind, and they are guru for blind men. Abudho guru. These have been described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. If we are to accept guru, so the original guru is Kṛṣṇa because He instructed Lord Brahmā, the first living creature within this universe. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye (SB 1.1.1). He instructed the ādi-kavi. He is the guru, Kṛṣṇa. And in the Bhagavad-gītā He also says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). So He is ādi-guru. In Bhagavad-gītā also He is instructing Arjuna. He is ādi-guru. So instead of this tricky, jugglery guru, why not people approach Kṛṣṇa? Therefore acakṣur andha. Ye sab chal raha hai. (All this is going on.) Read this verse again.

Pradyumna: Acakṣur andhasya yathāgraṇīḥ kṛtas tathā janasyāviduṣo 'budho guruḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Aviduṣaḥ abudho guruḥ. Ye jo moorkh hain unke liye ye to. padhe-likhe ke liye thoda hi hai. koi accha aadmi hai . . . (These people who are foolish, it is for them—not for the educated class. One who is a good man . . .)

Indian man: Inke saath aaye hain, unko jaldi hai jana hai. (I have come with them. They want to leave, they are in a hurry.)

Prabhupada: Lao prasad lao. (Get the prasadam. You can bring something . . .)

Pradyumna: Drink?

Prabhupāda: 'abi jusam . . .' nahi hamare kehane ka matlab hai. (No, what I meant to say is, if things are very easy, why do they go the roundabout way?) Bhagavān svayam bata rahe hain, (God Himself is saying) man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). To ye saral baat chod karke kiske... . peeche bhag rahe hain. 'man mana mad bhakto bhagvan swayam bata rahe hain ki hamare vishay me chintan karo, koi mushkil hai. Ab ye jo sab aaye hain bhagvan ka murti dekh rahe hain aur thoda sa chintan hoyega hi. Agar roz mandir me aaye, bhagvan ka darshan kare to man mana bhakt ho jayega aate-aate, aur ek namaskar karna hai man mana mad bhakto mad yaji, agar samarth hai to puja karo aur puja karne ke liye to bhagvan 'patram pushpam phalam toyam thoda patr do, garib se garib hai ek patr, ek phool le aao, ye koi mushkil hai, aur kuch nahi to namskar karo, aur isi me tum 'mam evaisasi . . . ye sab chod karke . . . kya baat hai hmm . . . (So leaving this simple process, why are you running behind something else? "man mana mad bhakto" God is Himself saying that, "Meditate upon me/" Is it very difficult? Now these people who have come are seeing the Deities and definitely they will meditate a little. If you come to the temple daily and see the Deities, then coming regularly "Man mana bhakto" you will become a devotee. And pay your obeisances "Man mana mad bhakto mad yaji" and if you have the capacity, then do Deity worship. For doing worship, God has said: "Patram pushpam phalam toyam", little leaf, even the poorest can get leaves. A little water, a flower—is this very difficult? If not anything, then just pay respects to the Lord and in this way only you "Mam evaisyasi" . . . leaving all this . . . what is the matter? Hmm . . .) I went to see the Ramakrishna Mission head, Prabodhananda Swami. So just by seeing me, he immediately said that Thakur was formerly Gaura Hari.

Indian man: What Swāmījī? Gauḍīya? Gaura Hari.

Prabhupāda: Gaura Hari. To usi bakt hum samajh gaye kya bolta hai . . . (Immediately I understood what he was saying . . .) He said Ramakrishna Thakur, Thakur Rama . . . he was formerly Gaurasundara. Gaurasundara . . . aur Gaurasundara das Krishna bhakti prachar kiya aur phir idhar aakkarke kali puja karna shuroo kiya. Ye humko maloom hai. Nahi ye Ramkrishna kali puja karta tha. ye humko samajh me aaya. to kaun samjhe, moorkh log samajhe. aur wo Gaursundar humko bataya ki 'jare dakhe tare kaho krishna upadesh' aur phir is janm me kali puja karta hai. Ye sab chal raha hai. aur shastra me batate hain bhagvan sway (verse) ann devta jo puja karte hain wo 'hrta jnana' aur Vishwanath Chakravarti Thakur iska comment diya hai 'nasht budhya' buddhi naash ho gaya hai, yehi sab doosre-doosre devta ka puja karega. To jiska buddhi naash ho gaya aisa vyakti kali puja karne ko bhagvan. Shastrta me uska buddhi naash ho gaya hai aur wo bhagvan. Ye sab chal raha hai. to ye sab kaun samjhega . . . aur humlog yehi prachar karte hain jisme do-char aadmi aa jata hai, zyada idhar-udhar ka baat karke . . . bana karke . . . 'krsnas tu bhagvan swayam'. (Gaurasundara das spread the message of devotion and came here and started worshiping mother Kali. I know this. No, this Ramakrishna worships goddess Kali. This I came to understand. Who will understand? All are fools and rascals and that Gaurasundara told us "Jare dekhe tare kaho krishna upadesh" and in this life he worships Kali. All this is going on. And in the scriptures it is said God himself (verse) those who worship demigods they are "Hrta jnana" and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura makes a comment on this "Nasht buddhya" they have lost their intelligence. They worship different demigods. So a person whose intelligence is lost, he worships goddess Kali and considers himself God. He has lost his intelligence scripturally and thinks he is God. This is going on. So who is going to understand all this? . . . we are preaching the science of God and 2 to 4 people come in, we don't discuss unnecessary topics . . . make up . . . "Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam".) (end)

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