760905 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760905R1-VRNDAVAN - September 05, 1976 - 45:47 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . no, that is wrong . . . (indistinct) . . . sannyāsī should go on preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching. Practically, I was sitting here in Vṛndāvana, in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. So at the age of seventy years, nobody goes out. At least from Vṛndāvana nobody goes at the age of seventy years. But Kṛṣṇa asked me. I thought that "I must go. Guru Mahārāja wanted it, Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . . let me try." So if I had not gone, then this institution would not have developed. So this is practical. Mahataḥ nirvicaraṇam. Mahātmā, they must move. So when there is absolute necessity they may stay. Otherwise, they must move. Move on, move on, move on, move on, move on. No staying. That is principle. No staying. I am this old age, I cannot move . . . my . . . I . . . so many . . . still I am traveling all over the world. I am simply interested that whatever I have done, it may not be vanquished in my absence. Let me go and encourage them. Otherwise, I have no capacity to move now. But still I am moving, only for this purpose. Girinaṁ gṛhna-cetasam. So a sannyāsī must move. A sannyāsī must not stay anywhere more than three days. That is the principle. So he was moving, but his moving is creating disturbances here. Therefore I have stopped. And besides that, a temple is nirguṇa. A sannyāsī is forbidden to stay anywhere else, but in a temple he can stay for more than three days, provided there is business. Otherwise, there is no necessity. So this is the exclusion.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That solves all the problems.

Prabhupāda: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution . . . if we do not become very simple servant of Kṛṣṇa, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11). No other purpose than to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is only purpose. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). So our only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa in His original status as Kṛṣṇa, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu nor Kṛṣṇa has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Kṛṣṇa has never said. That is not Kṛṣṇa's, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu's business. That is not required. Boro boro badorer boro boro pet, lanka dingate matha kore het. (Big big monkey, big big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy.) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vṛndāvana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission all over the world—melancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching. That is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go. What do you think?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Then I want to do that, but there are some problems which I'm experiencing.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Haṁsadūta: Well, for instance, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa has the habit of deporting my men to different centers, even against their will.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't have that habit.

Haṁsadūta: Then the men . . . I explained the other night . . .

Prabhupāda: Let him explain, don't . . .

Haṁsadūta: When we come to a center, naturally there are certain men who want to go traveling. Not all men want to go traveling, but there are definitely some who want to go traveling. And if they come to me, what should I do? Tell them, "No, I'm sorry"?

Prabhupāda: No, no, traveling, if somebody wants to travel, what he is? First of all you must know. A brahmacārī, a sannyāsī, they are meant for preaching. Not gṛhasthas.

Haṁsadūta: No, not gṛhasthas. I'm not taking any gṛhasthas.

Prabhupāda: So if a brahmacārī, gṛhastha, yes, if he wants to travel, so there is no objection.

Haṁsadūta: But what is happening is that, for instance, someone will join me, then Gopāla will catch up with him and send the man to Delhi or to Hyderabad. The man will run away and come back again, and again he will be forced to go away. This is what I object to.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this is wrong. I'll tell you what the facts are. In every temple there are certain key positions for some devotee. In no temple we are trying to keep more men than necessary. Sometimes they come and he preaches to them and he gives them money. If he is the temple president . . . like in Bombay Haṁsadūta came, he had a fight with Girirāja. Girirāja was ready to write such a strong letter to you. He gave money to few devotees . . .

Prabhupāda: The temple establishment, that has to be maintained.

Haṁsadūta: That I understand. Prabhupāda, I understand that.

Prabhupāda: So why, why the . . .? Besides that, if you want to take someone or if anyone is willing to go with you, the president of the local temple, he should be requested. Or the man who wants to go, that "I want to go with him," so if the president thinks that he can be spared, then he can go. But if he thinks that his presence is necessary, why he should go?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is one of the GBC resolutions. No devotee can go without the temple president's permission.

Haṁsadūta: I understand . . .

Prabhupāda: I cannot hear two. Let him . . . when I ask him . . .

Haṁsadūta: In this particular instance, and practically always, I do that. But Girirāja was so unreasonable about the matter that the boy actually ran away.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that, that, there are so many people . . . if you do not satisfy his senses, everyone is free to run away. That you cannot check. You cannot say, accuse somebody or somebody. Because here everyone is giving voluntary service. Nobody is servant. So if he doesn't like something, at any moment he can go away. At any moment. Just like yesterday the Śāstrī came. So he went away. And somebody, they are coming, going. So you cannot check them, because they are not our paid servants. If they are very kind that they have come here, cooperating with us. But still there is some decency, if one is engaged in some work, all of a sudden he should go away, all of a sudden . . . that is not very good. That is not very good. Decently that, "I used to go, and now in preaching work, so there will be no difficulty," this is the arrangement. Something must be done. All of a sudden, if somebody goes, that isn't very good. Tamāla also, if he did so, that is not good. Because I want some men, I cannot kidnap from any place. That is not good. We must see that the management is going on, the management may not suffer. But the president should allow to go if there is extra men.

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Another point in this connection, Prabhupāda, the men who come with me, they don't stay with me forever. They will stay a few months some of them, and then they go. In this way . . .

Prabhupāda: Then that is the habit . . .

Haṁsadūta: For instance, in this temple, there are so many men which are on our party who are . . .

Prabhupāda: So many men. We don't want so many men. Now we are going to minimize. We don't want so many men. That if . . . now we have to estimate how many men absolutely required. So many men we shall keep. Others, they must go to the preaching. They must go to the preaching.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can all go on the buses, the extra men.

Prabhupāda: No, they should be distributed. They may go to other centers.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hyderabad needs men.

Prabhupāda: Here, unnecessarily increasing men and increasing expenditure, twenty thousand, twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand. Why? Unnecessary. Only minimum men should be kept who are actually useful. There is no need of keeping extra men. What is that?

Harikeśa: When you originally were speaking about Vṛndāvana, you mentioned that Vṛndāvana would be a place for those people who have become a little disturbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or burned out, we call it, from so much activity, that he comes here and gets rejuvenated here. Is that still . . .

Prabhupāda: That is a fact, but provided he is devotee. If he's not a devotee then he will go away, here and there, here and there. That is the habit. And a devotee is satisfied anywhere. A devotee is not that, "I'll go to Vṛndāvana, then I'll be satisfied." Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). I did not go to your country taking Vṛndāvana with me. I had to stay in places where in the refrigerator there is meat. And I was cooking. When I opened it I saw, "Here is meat. All right, what can be done? Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all.

Akṣayānanda: But actually you did take Vṛndāvana with you.

Prabhupāda: So if I would have stuck to Vṛndāvana, "No, no, I cannot go anywhere, leaving Vṛndāvana . . ." No, we can go to hell if there is Kṛṣṇa's service.

Harikeśa: So is there some time that maybe somebody could stay here when he comes in that frame of consciousness?

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is . . . not that. It should be now restricted. Not that anyone comes and whimsically goes away. This should be restricted.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These devotees just create a disturbance, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They don't want to be engaged, and everybody copies them and the whole atmosphere gets . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Akṣayānanda: A lot of devotees think . . . they come here . . . "Therefore work is not necessary. Simply chanting and being in Vṛndāvana is nice." That's wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Chanting, but there is expenditure. Who will collect this twenty-five thousand? It is increasing.

Akṣayānanda: We have one kitchen, as you said . . .

Prabhupāda: I can maintain them, provided they are actually serious about making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Not that some lazy fellow will come, and because he has come to Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa-candra has become very much obliged to him. Kṛṣṇa-candra had no other friend. He has come from somebody. That mentality should be curtailed.

Harikeśa: What if he comes with money to pay for himself.

Prabhupāda: Is there a guesthouse? Stay. There is no harm. There is guesthouse, he can pay and stay. But here we shall keep only minimum number of men without whom we cannot make . . . manage it. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how it is possible? Who will bring twenty-five thousand per month? I'm surprised. Twenty-five . . . Pacchis hazar. (Twenty-five thousand.)

Akṣayānanda: It's much more. Sometimes thirty.

Prabhupāda: So this must be stopped immediately. We cannot pay more than five thousand. You stop. We cannot pay. Ye hona chahiye. Ye hona chahiye. Ye kya adda-khana hai kya? (This has to be ensured. This must be ensured. Is this a place for having picnics?) My Guru Mahārāja used to say, Khawa-dawar adda-khana. (Eating and drinking club) "Joint mess." This is not possible, that we have to maintain a big bundle of burden. What is this?

Akṣayānanda: But still, we have to welcome anyone who comes.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand per month? What is this? Where is that temple in Vṛndāvana who is spending twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand? Can you say any temple?

Bhagatjī: Not more than five thousand.

Prabhupāda: That's it. So we cannot pay more than five thousand.

Akṣayānanda: For eating?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Then clothing is more? Clothing is more? Maintenance?

Prabhupāda: No, everything. Hundred rupees per head. You do not require to collect. I shall pay five thousand.

Harikeśa: Then there should be a budget here.

Prabhupāda: Budget is there. Hundred rupees per head. Fifty men if you keep, it is five thousand.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can keep less. We don't want fifty.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It will be less. But I'm prepared to pay you five thousand rupees for fifty men. Not more than that. That I can pay. You do not require to collect. You sit down, but work hard here. Not that eating, sleeping. No. That cannot be. That cannot be done. They must be engaged twenty-four hours. That is wanted. It is not a lazy, a free hotel. Anyone lives, he must be engaged twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). If he has no work, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa here. That should be done.

Akṣayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We have the twenty-four hour kīrtana. I've requested everyone who comes to do at least one hour per day.

Prabhupāda: There is no question. This is the condition.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, I've made it a rule.

Prabhupāda: If you agree, then stay here. Otherwise, you go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Akṣayānanda: Also visiting devotees should do that too. Anyone who comes here should do that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone.

Prabhupāda: You must make a rule.

Akṣayānanda: At least one hour in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Why one hour? Four hours. Four hours. Four times. Morning, evening, night, morning again.

Akṣayānanda: Already the rule is made . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, already rules are . . . just like to continue kīrtana there must be four batches.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, four men I have . . .

Prabhupāda: Four batches. That means six hours, four. Three hours. Three hours, not four hours. So one batch four hours. From morning six to nine. Another batch from nine to twelve. Another batch twelve to three. Another batch three to six. Again the morning batch six to . . .

Akṣayānanda: Eight different batches, that makes a total of thirty-two.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Not . . . why thirty-two? Twice one batch. One batch attending once in the morning, once in the evening.

Bhagatjī: Sixteen. Solah admi. Char-char admi ek batch me. Char batch banaye apne. Solah ho gaye. (Sixteen men. Four men will be there in one batch. You made four batches. So the total becomes sixteen.)

Prabhupāda: So then if there is fifty men, we cannot spare sixteen men?

Akṣayānanda: Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Everything is nice. Only to be managed.

Akṣayānanda: Yes, it has to be done.

Prabhupāda: Only to be managed. So I am prepared, I'll pay you. Even if you have no money I'll pay you five thousand. Keep fifty men.

Akṣayānanda: I don't think it's necessary for you to pay.

Prabhupāda: So if necessary, I'm prepared. That's all right.

Akṣayānanda: No, it's not necessary.

Prabhupāda: Then thank you. That is another thing. But fifty men you can keep. Fifty men you can keep. And there is collection in the box. There is collection by prasādam, so many other things.

Bhagatjī: And the altars.

Prabhupāda: So that should be engaged fully in Deity worship. Not extravagant. That I shall see. I shall remain here, how things are going on. I shall manage myself. I shall see how things are going on. So anyway, fifty men, five thousand. No more twenty-five thousand. Forget. No more twenty-five.

Harikeśa: That's three rupees a day.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Three point thirty-three.

Haṁsadūta: If it's three rupees, thirty paisa a day for eating, soap and toothpaste . . .

Prabhupāda: No soap. Take this Rādhā-kuṇḍa's . . . why soap? You are so devotee of Rādhā-kuṇḍa, why you require soap? This is nonsense. You take earth from the Rādhā-kuṇḍa or Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana-dhūli. Why you require soap?

Bhagatjī: Pundrah saal ho gaye, maine aj tak sabun nahi lagaya. (Fifteen years have passed but I have never used soap until today.)

Prabhupāda: Radha-kunda wo jane wala hai aur sabun! Hum bol raha hai jo Radha-kund jane wala aur chahiye sabun! Lijiye. Ye bevakuf Radha-kund me jane wala hai. Ye narak-kund me jane wala hai. Jo narak-kund jata hai uske liye sabun zarurat hai. Radha-kund jane wala ko sabun kya zarurat . . . (indistinct) . . . (He is going to Rādhā-kuṇḍa but he requires soap. My point is that he needs soap for going to Rādhā-kuṇḍa? Just see. This fool is planning to visit Rādhā-kuṇḍa. He will go to hell-kuṇḍa. Those who go to hell-kuṇḍa require soap for bathing. What is the use of soap for someone going to Rādhā-kuṇḍa . . . (indistinct) . . .) Nim datun? I was doing nim datun until the teeth fell down. You will know that I was collecting nim. But now it is impossible. That also I have manufactured my own toothpaste. I purchase only the brush, and I made my toothpaste at home. I never used any toothpaste. Even in my young days, I never used. You have seen it practically. Not only that now I have become sannyāsī. When I was gṛhastha I never used. When I was gṛhastha I was using that nim datun regularly.

Akṣayānanda: So we'll do, definitely.

Prabhupāda: And I can give you the paste.

Akṣayānanda: The recipe.

Prabhupāda: So if you cannot use nim datun, you can use this paste. Very simple.

Bhagatji: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Kyu, batayenge kyu? Batayenge nahi. Wo humara secret hai. (laughter) So ye aisa karo ki bas ab ye sab . . . aur ye sab jo formula hai, jo manage kar sakega wo manager. (Why should I tell you? I am not going to tell you. It is my secret. (laughter) So do this then everything . . . and all these formulas, one who successfully executes them is a real manager.)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Ab ho jayega . . . thik hai. Zarur. Ab ho jayega. Abhi hum log devotee kam kar lenge to ye sab . . . bahar ka koi rehne nahi denge kyuki bahar ka bahut log ate hai, kaam nahi karte. Ab ho jayega. (Now it will be done. Definitely. It will be done. We will now reduce the number of devotee . . . we will not let any outsider stay in the āśrama because then there are too many people staying here without doing any work.)

Prabhupāda: Bahar ka kaun ata hai? (Who are these outsiders?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Devotee log ate hai, bahar ke visitors aur zyada kaam nahi karte. Unko bolenge chanting karna hai, kaam karna hai nahi to guest house me raho. Aisa karenge. Brahmachari ashram me jisko bhi rehne ka . . . (Devotees are there as well as other visitors who stay in the āśrama without doing any work. We will tell them to chant daily and render some service or else shift to the guest house. We will implement this. Whoever wants to stay in the brahmacārī āśrama should . . .)

Prabhupāda: Bahar ka kaun ata hai? (Who are these outsiders?)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Devotees, then visiting . . .

Akṣayānanda: One problem is that these devotees who are not serious, we say they cannot stay here. Yet, because they are still attracted to Vṛndāvana, many times they go and find a place outside the temple in Vṛndāvana, and they make a bad example. This problem we cannot solve. Or they go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa and live. We say: "You cannot stay here because you won't help in some way." Therefore they . . .

Prabhupāda: No, cannot stay . . . you can allow three days free.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Three days. Okay.

Prabhupāda: You can receive guest for three days. Not permanently. And they can . . . that is very reasonable. If they have come, spending so much to Vṛndāvana, they cannot pay?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They usually have money. Everyone who comes from America, Europe, has some money.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the difficulty? What is the difficulty if they have got money?

Bhagatjī: See the shop here. See all the shop, whether they have got money or not. You have opened a canteen here, and you can note from there who has got money.

Prabhupāda: No, money they have got. There is no doubt. They are not coming from poor country, either poor. No, we are welcoming, provided he is reasonable. Simply to exploit, that is not good. That is not good. What do you think? In our Indian system, if somebody goes to a sādhu's āśrama, especially gṛhastha, immediately he pays fifty rupees, hundred rupees. He'll not stay more than three days, four days. But he knows, "The sādhu, wherefrom he'll bring money? Take." They are paying without staying. Just like yesterday this man came, and you have seen so many people come. In your country also it is done. That is up to the man's conscience, that "I have come here, so I require to stay. Pay something." But not that . . . that should be properly expended. So anything can be done very nicely provided there is good management. I do not see any difficulty. Karo sab. (Do everything properly.) I am present here. If there is any difficulty, ask me. I shall advise.

Bhagatjī: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, wo . . . ye to zarur hona chahiye . . . (No, at least this must be ensured that . . .) Per head hundred rupees is sufficient. Not more than that. Even . . . how many devotees are here now?

Akṣayānanda: We have sixty. About sixty.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: More than that.

Akṣayānanda: Sixty, sixty-three. There are many women over there. Usually there's about sixty. Normally there has been about . . .

Prabhupāda: Up to fifty I take charge. I shall pay hundred rupees per head.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't need more than fifty, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because Hyderabad needs devotees.

Prabhupāda: If there are more, they can go to other centers.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we have the farm in Hyderabad. Mahāṁsa's asking for men for the farm, for the temple. They can give . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got the biggest farm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Six-hundred-acre farm.

Prabhupāda: As we have organized New Vrindavan farm and Philadelphia farm, so the farm was also to be organized by you. That was the contemplation. So six hundred acres of land. Very nice land. Very nice land. Six hundreds, and it is not with . . . (indistinct) . . . like Vṛndāvana, but very fertile land.

Harikeśa: It can produce enough food to feed the whole society.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Bhagatjī: Irrigation system?

Prabhupāda: Irrigation?

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda? Do you want me to take care of that scheme still?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That would be best.

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Haṁsadūta: The thing is, the money that I had put aside for that farm I gave to Mahāṁsa, so he should give it back.

Prabhupāda: You should be very much encouraged.

Haṁsadūta: No, the money that I put aside to start that farm, to buy some irrigation equipment and so forth—initial investment—I gave it to Mahāṁsa on your order, one lakh of rupees.

Prabhupāda: One lakh?

Haṁsadūta: I gave him one lakh.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is for construction, and he's going to give it back.

Prabhupāda: No, that is for construction. That is not for the farm.

Harikeśa: No, no, that money, I intended to use for the farm. But it took so long to get that farm. So when . . . you said that he should pay it back.

Prabhupāda: No, that can be . . . that I guaranteed. That I guaranteed one lakh, that if he does not pay, I shall do it. That guarantee still.

Haṁsadūta: Should I develop that scheme there?

Prabhupāda: Yes, let us have the farm first of all. I do not know what is the position now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's coming soon, Mahāṁsa said. So he can develop the farm.

Prabhupāda: So your main business should be mahad-vicalanaṁ. Calanaṁ vicalanam.

Haṁsadūta: It's just that in this one particular problem it would be better, that's all. He has already sent them away. He has already sent a number of men away.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Who? And they are all the temple devotees. What I'm saying is don't rob men from these temples have to be supported. They're taking away men from the temples, and the temples . . .

Haṁsadūta: I don't want to make a fuss, but right now there are six or seven first-class men who are working in your temple who are on this party.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Take them all, but still the temple will go on.

Prabhupāda: He can take them.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Take them out.

Haṁsadūta: That's what I'm afraid, that he's going to . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Your men you take.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I am only requesting you to return the temple devotees which you have stolen. That's all. I don't want men from this party. We will manage it. Just return the temple devotees.

Haṁsadūta: There are other men who are . . . (indistinct talking back and forth to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa)

Prabhupāda: Yesterday I told him that temple painting is going on . . . who is painting? I never saw.

Bhagatjī: Nau baje se panch baje tak . . . (indistinct) . . . aat ghante . . . (indistinct) . . . nau baje shuru karte hai, wo roti-woti khake ate hai aur panch baje tak karte hai. (From 9 am to 5 pm . . . (indistinct) . . . 8 hours . . . (indistinct) . . . they take a heavy meal before coming here and start work at 9 am. Then they work till 5 pm.)

Prabhupāda: Upar me kaise karte hai? (How are they painting on the top?)

Bhagatjī: Upar me tay kar liya, abhi niche ka aap a gaye hai . . . (That we have managed. Now you have come regarding the ground floor . . .)

Prabhupāda: Niche kaha kar rahe hai? (Where are they painting on the ground floor?)

Bhagatjī: Uss taraf. (On that side.)

Prabhupāda: Haa? Uss taraf? (What? On that side?)

Bhagatjī: Uss taraf . . . (There . . .)

Prabhupāda: Backside me kyu? (Why on the backside?)

Bhagatjī: Jaha prasad lete hai . . . (Where we take prasadam . . .)

Prabhupāda: Accha. (Okay.)

Akṣayānanda: So we should have one kitchen only. One kitchen? As we had discussed last night. Now we have a Deity kitchen and a devotee kitchen. We also have a guesthouse kitchen.

Prabhupāda: Why three? (indistinct comments by Bhagatjī)

Akṣayānanda: So the devotee kitchen and Deity kitchen could be made into one.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's decided.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. So I'll give you a list of the preparations we'll offer, for your approval. It means we'll be offering less to the Deity.

Prabhupāda: What is difficulty?

Bhagatjī: . . . un logo ka kharcha . . . (indistinct) . . . garland, sab iska kam se kam solah sau rupaya mahine ka kharcha hai . . . (indistinct) . . . pehle to do hazar tha. Maine unko competition karke panch sau rupaye less karke . . . (their expenditure . . . (indistinct) . . . minimum monthly expenditure for garlands is sixteen hundred rupees . . . (indistinct) . . . it was two thousand initially but I negotiated with them and reduced it by five hundred rupees . . .)

Prabhupāda: Solah sau rupaya phool! (Flowers are worth sixteen hundred rupees!)

Bhagatjī: Phool, mala, sab itna mahine ka . . . (Flowers, garlands, all together for one month . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ye to murkhta hai. Nahi, ye jo pachas rupaya phool . . . ye jo pachas rupaya ka phool . . . (indistinct) . . . deta hai. (This is ridiculous. No, these daily flowers are worth fifty rupees . . . (indistinct) . . . they are giving.)

Bhagatjī: . . . me deta hai. Phool lagte hai phool. (. . . they are giving. This many flowers are always required.)

Prabhupāda: Deta hai to Bhagavan ke liye phool liya jaye par ye humara sir me itna phool sajane ka kya zarurat hai. Bhagavan ke liye bas panch saat mala le . . . (Okay, let them purchase for the Deities but why decorate me with so many flowers? For the Deities, you can purchase five to seven garlands . . .) How many Deities are there? Guru-Gaurāṅga, four; Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma, two; six, and . . .

Akṣayānanda: Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā and the gopīs.

Prabhupāda: Ten. So . . .

Akṣayānanda: Chote Radha-Krishna humare. (Our small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.)

Prabhupāda: Char Radha-Krishna, do Krishna-Balarama aur char Guru-Gauranga. (Four Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, two Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma and four Guru-Gaurāṅga.)

Akṣayānanda: And small Deity of Gaura-Nitāi, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Small deities are small . . . to garland kitna leta hai? (. . . so how much do they take for garlands?)

Bhagatjī: Garland ka to . . . mala ke to har ek ka alag alag daam hai. Ek rupaye ki to gulab ki mala . . . (indistinct) . . . ek pichattar paise ki hai, tulsi mala ati hai wo sawa rupaye ki lagti hai. (Each garland has a different price. Rose garland is 1 rupee . . . (indistinct) . . . one is 75 paisa, tulsi garland is 1 rupee and 15 paisa.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, tulsi bhi nahi chahiye, gulab bhi nahi chahiye, aisi chahiye. (No, we neither need a rose garland nor a tulsi garland. This one is good enough.)

Bhagatjī: . . . bahut sasti rahegi tab (. . . it will be very cheap then . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ha, ek dum sahi . . . (Yes, perfectly fine . . .)

Bhagatjī: (laughter) Bhagavan ke liye sugandhit phulo ki mala, malati ki, gulab ki . . . (For the Lord, we can take some fragrant flower garlands like jasmine, rose . . .)

Prabhupāda: Kabhi kabhi lena, rozana nahi. (On some days you may take but not daily.)

Bhagatjī: Bazar me ye sab phul hum apne aap kar lenge. Aap budget bata dijiye kitna rupaya kharch karna hai. (We will manage this purchasing of flower garlands on our own. Please tell us what your budget is.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, ye mala kitna ka hai? (No, what is the price of this garland?)

Bhagatjī: Prabhupāda, ye to bahut sasti hai, ye mala to. (Prabhupāda, this garland is very cheap.)

Prabhupāda: Bolo na. (Anyways, you tell me.)

Bhagatjī: Zyada-zyada ek taka ki mala, pachas paise ki mala hai. (At the most, it will cost 1 rupee or 50 paise.)

Prabhupāda: Pachas paisa? (Fifty paisa.) I don't think it is problem . . . (indistinct) . . . what is your idea? (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (indistinct) . . . the CID is going to our Life Members and harassing them.

Akṣayānanda: "Why are you with them? How much are they paying you?"

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are scared of becoming our members now. Even in Chandigarh, Caitya-guru told me your books were on display in one Life Member's stores—he has two stores—and CID went to him and said: "Why are you displaying these books? What's your connection? Why're you helping Hare Kṛṣṇa?"

Prabhupāda: So selling books is illegal?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but they are just suspecting, they're so suspicious.

Prabhupāda: What is that suspicious? We have got books. We are selling.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They . . . you know, because of those . . . now we can defeat them, because of that meeting with Defense Minister. . . . (indistinct) . . . but point is . . .

Prabhupāda: Book sell karna ye koi crime hai kya? (Is book selling a crime?)

Bhagatjī: Ha sab, ye koi crime nahi hai. (Yes, this is not at all a crime.)

Prabhupāda: Ek admi humse kitab le . . . (If someone is taking a book from us . . .)

Akṣayānanda: They just harass us. They don't do any action. They just keep bothering us.

Indian man: Two CID inspectors came to my house. And they said they have got so many things in their basements. So I told, "You have come without informing me, and I was not informed them. So please come to me one day and decide what is it. You come back. You come with me." I took and I showed . . .

Prabhupāda: Kya bola? (What did you say?)

Indian man: Sir, I showed everything.

Prabhupāda: Wo hum log ke against me bada . . . (They are creating a big challenge for us . . .)

Indian man: (indistinct Hindi) . . . "You want to help me to go to materialism? . . . (indistinct) . . . they are not CIDs, they're not even anything. They are simply devotees. They have come from foreign country and they are . . ."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, the living is simple, then they will see, yes, that's simple . . .

Prabhupāda: And where is the car you have purchased?

Akṣayānanda: It's in Indore now.

Indian man: Indian car.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Akṣayānanda: Madhya Pradesh. I put one brahmacārī in charge of it.

Prabhupāda: They are using?

Akṣayānanda: Yes, very well.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're preaching.

Akṣayānanda: Very good boys looking after.

Indian man: Dono chiz bahut labh ki hai saheb. Motorcycle hai court jane ke liye, bahar ke cooks lane ke liye, kisi ko bulane ke liye . . . (Both the things are very useful. The motorcycle is used for going to court, to bring cooks from the outside, call someone . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ye thik hai. (That's alright.)

Akṣayānanda: It's a very good car, Prabhupāda. Jaya.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you very much, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Utsah hona chahiye. Hum log . . . ye to ek hi din me success nahi bana. Bada dhairya . . . ek dedh baras rasta rasta me ghuma aur wo visa department renew karte, (There has to be enthusiasm. We did not become successful in one day. Lots of patience . . . for one and a half years I had to roam around in the streets and the visa department would renew,) ten dollars.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Canada you had problem. I remember when you came to Montreal in '68.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you did not know. Canada, I had very little problem. US, it was always problem. Rather, Canada helped me.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Immigration you got.

Prabhupāda: Canada, I immediately I got immigration in Canada. Then I got some standing, that "Never mind, I have got now immigration in Canada. It will be easier from Canada to go to USA." Then again I tried for USA. And it was obtained within three months, and spending only within hundred dollars. And there, in America, they were spending each time $150, the lawyer was taking. He was phoning, "Will you please send $150 for this expense?" And how many times he has taken I do not know. They were paying. Rāyarāma was at that time chief man. He immediately . . . this was going on. Then when I came to Canada . . . first of all, I made my position secure that, "Let me have Canadian immigration." So Canadian immigration I got very soon. I think within two months. Then I applied for USA immigration. So US immigration I got within three months. And I paid, I think, within hundred dollars. So . . . you know. When I came to Montreal?

Harikeśa: Very easy.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You went for the interview with the US Consulate in Montreal before you got your green card for America.

Prabhupāda: No, no. In Montreal went . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you came from Vancouver . . . from Seattle.

Harikeśa: You came from Vancouver. You had an interview with one gentleman.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With Shasti-mani.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there was hard struggle. It is not that so easy for . . . in 1965 to '66, 66, 67, regular hard struggle.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, I know that's a crisis.

Prabhupāda: You know that. Hard struggle. So Kṛṣṇa gave us some facilities. Now we have got some framework. Do it very cautiously. Unnecessarily exhausting what we . . . sato vṛtteḥ sādhu-saṅge. That is Rūpa Gosvāmī's line. We should be very honest and live with sādhu, those who are devotees. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. First of all our mission should be how to serve the Gosvāmīs.

ei chay gosāi yār tāro mui dās

tāṅ-sabāra pada-reṇu mora pañca-grās

You cannot act independently. Caitanya Mahāprabhu . . .

śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ

sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale

svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ

dadāti sva-padāntikam

That should be our prayer. "When Rūpa Gosvāmī, who has established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when I shall get shelter of his lotus feet?" And that is . . . Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura prays, tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi. Tāṅdera means the six Gosvāmīs. Ei chay gosāi yāṅr tāṅr mui dās. "I'm servant of that person who is engaged in the service of the six Gosvāmīs." And we pray to our Guru Mahārāja, rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta-hāriṇe. Anyone who is going against the decision of Rūpa Gosvāmī, reject him. Rūpānuga-viruddhāpasiddhānta-dhvānta. This is our process. Ei chay gosāi yāṅr.

rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti

kabe hāma bujhabo se jugala-pīriti

Who will understand Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's loving affairs unless one has gone really through the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī? Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa loving affairs is not so easy. Rādhā-kuṇḍa is not so easy that by force I go to Rādhā-kuṇḍa, I become a candidate.

rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti

kabe hāma bujhabo se jugala-pīriti

Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura is hankering, "When I shall understand about Rādhā-kuṇḍa, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's prema?" Such liberated great devotees, ācāryas, they are hankering. Rūpa-raghunātha-pade hoibe ākuti, kabe hāma bujhabo. "When I shall understand?" And they have understood immediately everything. Sab janta Lawrence. (The all-knowing Mr. Lawrence.) That is solved. Not so easy. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given us the facility.

abodha karuṇā-sindhu kāciyā mahān

prahlāda brahmā durlab prema nitāi kore dāna

That is the special verse. It is not very easy thing. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Don't take things very easily. Things are very serious. Therefore we have to go step by step. That is, Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said, tāṅdera saṅge. Aim should be how to serve Rūpa-Raghunātha, Rūpa-Raghunātha. And bhakta-sane bās, pure devotee, to stay with pure devotee who has no other intention. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.1.11). This is the process. So do it carefully. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) In the morning we shall go to take my milk from the booth. I'll go early so that I may take the first. Then come back, then take my bath early in the morning. I did not take hot water. Cold water. Even in severe winter. Hmm, then?

Harikeśa: And one boy called Rādhā-Dāmodara dāsa from New . . . did I mention this, or . . . (break) (end)