750604 - Morning Walk - Honolulu
Śrutakīrti: (introducing recording) The following conversation takes place on Śrīla Prabhupāda's morning walk on June 4th, 1975, at Waikiki Beach, Hawaii.
Prabhupāda: . . .saw the question proposition, he cannot answer. So he began to write words like this, whole book, and the examiners saw that it has no meaning. But he has coined so many words, they said, "Very intelligent." They passed him. (laughter) Now, "upperfluous." You don't find all these words in dictionary. "Upperfluous rain of agua was dogbendikulali gondolized by lacticism of wine." (laughs) It appears very grammatically nice composed, but it has no meaning. So he coined such words, a full book. Because he could not answer. So the time was there. He began to coin words. And he was passed, (laughs) for his intelligence. Similarly, these people are putting words which you cannot understand, and they are getting their salaries, that's all. (break) Invent something that they will not die, there will be no disease, there will be no old age. That is something. What is this nonsense, simply speculating? (break) Cloud is standing there. It is not systematic. Then why the gravitation is not working? There are millions and millions tons of water. Why the gravitation is not working? The law of gravitation, why it is not working? (aside)Hmm. Don't walk with a rod. What is the answer? They are not systematic changing. Why? Why the gravitation is not working, fall down? They are heavy, very heavy when they, what is called . . . Agitation. What is called?
Prabhupāda: Friction, yes. There is so much sound. So why it is not falling down?
Manasvī: The scientist says the pull of gravitation starts only so high.
Prabhupāda: So why it is not working in all heights? Then what is their theory? If it is working under certain condition, who made this condition? (break) . . .the nature, "Now you get down these islands. Get the water," can they do that?
Bali-mardana: No, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then how they will come to know? (break) . . .Kṛṣṇa wants, immediately this land, by earthquake, can go down, immediately, within a second. So in the Vedic literature nature is accepted. But the creation, maintenance, destruction, that is in the hand of God, not nature. (break)
Bali-mardana: . . .used to say that they can control the weather. They used to make big propaganda, "We are now going to control."
Prabhupāda: Another foolish propaganda.
Bali-mardana: Now they have given up.
Prabhupāda: You see? They want to draw some salary, big salaries, by bluffing the government and the public. This is their business. They are failing. They have finished their business on this planet; now they are going another planet. These are nonsense. (break) They know that "We . . . So as far as possible, we have bluffed. Now our business in this planet is finished. So let us go to another planet." This is going on.
Paramahaṁsa: Even if they wanted to stop this space project, they couldn't stop, because they've already spent billions of dollars for making equipment and rocket ships and launching pads and rocket bases and so many employees. If they stop, then so much would be wasted, so many people would be unemployed. So they have to continue even if they know that it's a bluff.
Prabhupāda: That is the way of falsehood. If once you speak something false, then to protect that falsehood you have to take to so many other falsehoods. This is the way of falsehood.
Paramahaṁsa: One lie leads to another. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .are going to Venus, Americans and Russians combined together?
Ambarīṣa: This summer.
Prabhupāda: Oh, in the summer. Venus is very cold? Why they have selected summer season? (laughter)
(break) . . .could not go to the moon, and Venus is far above moon. How they will go?
Bali-mardana: They're not going to Venus, are they?
Ambarīṣa: They're up in space.
Bali-mardana: They're not going to Venus.
Paramahaṁsa: Are they going to Mars?
Bali-mardana: No, they're just going around the earth, right?
Ambarīṣa: Yeah, they're linking up in space.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, when they said they went to the moon, and they showed films of them landing and walking on the moon, was this all a bluff?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Clearly . . . All laboratory work, that's all.
Devotee (3): They all made it up?
Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda, they are not going to go to Venus. The American and Russian, they are just going to meet outside the earth. They are not going to any planet.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is finished.
Bali-mardana: It is too difficult.
Ambarīṣa: They're going to meet in space and float around in space. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is birds are doing also. (laughter) What is the credit?
Paramahaṁsa: They are thinking that "What is the use of going to any other planet, because there is no life on the other planets."
Prabhupāda: Why no life?
Paramahaṁsa: Well, they have photographs and things.
Prabhupāda: Photograph, what is this nonsense photograph? How long it can go on?
Ambarīṣa: They're taken from hundreds of miles up in space, and then they say there is no life.
Prabhupāda: What is hundreds of miles? It is. . . forty billion? What is that?
Paramahaṁsa: Four billion.
Prabhupāda: Four billion. So how they can calculate?
Paramahaṁsa: If they took a photograph of the earth planet from up in space, they would probably also say there is no life.
Devotee (3): They say because the atmosphere is not like this planet, others cannot live there.
Prabhupāda: Why not atmosphere? The moon planet, there is a planet. There is space. There is surface. There is dust. So why not atmosphere the same? It is made of the same ingredients: earth, water, fire. Why do you say that is not same atmosphere?
Devotee (3): They are saying that it's too cold or too hot.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is here also. There are many cold places. Do they think that in the cold places there is no life? All nonsense. And only nonsense will believe them. I never believed it. Why? Here we see underneath this sand there is life. The crabs, what is called?
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, crabs.
Prabhupāda: They live within, so many hundreds of thousands. We have seen on the sand . . . (indistinct) . . ..
Manasvī: There are polar bears for cold season, for living in mounds of snows and all.
Prabhupāda: There are birds, some birds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Penguins birds. There is life.
Bali-mardana: Seals, whales, polar bears . . .
Prabhupāda: There is life everywhere. Bhagavad-gītā says sarva-gaḥ. The life is there everywhere. And moon planet, according to our Vedic literature, that is one of the demigods' place. People live there daiva age, ten thousand years.
Devotee (3): They will not believe in the demigods . . .
Prabhupāda: I will not believe them. That's all. Finished. (laughter)
Devotee (3): They cannot see them.
Prabhupāda: What can you see, teeny eyes? What can you see? Can you see what is there on the other side of the sea? That does it mean there is nothing? Your nonsense seeing. Why you are believing of seeing? Your seeing power is very, very limited. Why do you believe in seeing? That is childish, "I cannot see." What you can see? First of all, let us consider this point. You cannot see anything.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, people will be very surprised to find out that the moon is farther away from us than the sun when they read your. . . when they read Fifth Canto.
Prabhupāda: But at least, they could not go there. Otherwise, why they are giving up this job? They could not go there. That's a fact. Their plan was to . . . They were selling land even, on the moon planet.
Ambarīṣa: Selling land on the moon?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)
Śrutakīrti: They were selling airline tickets also.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. (laughter) Just see, route. Pan American, yes. They sold so many tickets. Such fools there are.
Bali-mardana: In New York sometimes people sell new immigrants the Brooklyn Bridge.
Prabhupāda: And Moscow Sea. They, I mean to say, pitched one flag in the moon planet and named Moscow Sea. Yes.
Indian man: Just like you said that this moon and other planets are also made of these five elements—earth, water, fire, ether—they brought a rock from there. So they are accepting that the moon is made of those elements also, but they are not accepting that life is there.
Prabhupāda: No, they'll not accept. Therefore . . . Therefore fools. Why? The circumstance is the same. Why there should be no life? That is foolishness. We have got experience, as soon as there is water, there is life. As soon as there is land, there is life. As soon as there is air, there is life. So where is life? No life.
Devotee (3): They may agree in undeveloped species, but as far as higher forms of life, they will not agree, such as humans or demigods.
Prabhupāda: No, that also we cannot agree. If there are lower species, there must be higher species. As we see here is dog also, man also, higher species, lower species, why not there? They can talk all nonsense, but a nonsense will believe. No sane man will believe. (break) . . .to meet in the space?
Prabhupāda: What is the idea?
Ambarīṣa: It's a diplomatic move. They feel it will make friendly relationships between the two countries.
Manasvī: They cannot meet on the earth, and they are going to meet on the . . . (laughter) (break)
Prabhupāda: So I am the only man in the world challenging that "You have not gone to the moon planet." Eh? (laughter)
Harikeśa: Is it possible there's some difference as to the definition of what the moon planet is? They will say that the moon planet is that planet out there. Do we agree? At night?
Prabhupāda: What is your definition? First of all let me hear.
Harikeśa: I'm still wondering myself.
Prabhupāda: We have got our definition.
Harikeśa: What do we call those planets that rotate around Jupiter and Saturn and . . .? They will say those are also moons.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Different planets, different position. Just like this sun planet is fiery. There is fire. Similarly, in moon planet there is fire, but it is surrounded by cold atmosphere. Therefore it is cooling.
Harikeśa: So that's the specific characteristic of this moon?
Prabhupāda: Which moon? Yes, this is . . .
Harikeśa: Our moon.
Harikeśa: So the other moons that rotate around Saturn and Jupiter . . .
Prabhupāda: Other moon? There is no other moon.
Harikeśa: So they're just planets?
Paramahaṁsa: The moon is not rotating around the earth. The moon is further away than the sun.
Harikeśa: The moon is further away than the sun. Wow! (laughs)
Harikeśa: Why does it seem like the moon is . . .
Prabhupāda: Seen? Who has seen it? First of all let me. . . who has seen it? (devotees are laughing)
Harikeśa: There's nothing you can say.
Ambarīṣa: Prabhupāda, you said the other day that pretty soon all these lies will be exposed.
Prabhupāda: They are already exposed because they have left that expedition. That means they are hopeless. That is exposed. But foolish people will not ask them that "Why you have stopped this expedition?" They will again go on bluffing, and they will accept. That is the position. Now people should ask them, "Why you have stopped moon expedition and Venus expedition? Proposed you were going there, making arrangement. Why you have stopped?" It is failure.
Harikeśa: They might argue . . .
Prabhupāda: What is the argument? You have stopped. That is your failure, that's all. You can argue to the laymen, foolish men, but we will say you have stopped; therefore it is failure. All bogus propaganda is now stopped.
Devotee (3): They are saying the moon isn't worth develop . . .
Prabhupāda: Now they cannot say anything, because they are failure. Anything they say, that is all foolishness. They cannot say anything. Once you are failure, you have no value, anything you say.
Harikeśa: I've heard the argument that when they are going to the moon, they are always in contact, bouncing off these sonar waves and radar waves off the moon's surface, and when they are coming near, they can even see from their little portholes the moon's surface, the same moon that they see on the earth.
Prabhupāda: They say all nonsense, that's all. (chuckles) Why the earth is not brilliant at night like the moon?
Prabhupāda: Earth, why it is not brilliant like the moon?
Bali-mardana: It depends on where you are. It depends on where you are looking from.
Prabhupāda: "Where you are" means?
Harikeśa: They have pictures from the moon taken of the earth.
Prabhupāda: Pictures? First of all you see, then take picture. You cannot see.
Harikeśa: They use all these things to argue that they actually did go to the moon.
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argument if they have stopped? That is failure. Don't talk nonsense anymore. Phalena paricīyate. By the result we have to understand. Your result is you are failure. Then what is the use of talking nonsense? Stop this nonsense.
Ambarīṣa: It's like five years ago they declared a war on cancer, and they spent billions and billions of dollars on it, and just the other day they now said that it was a complete failure, that the disease has just kept on growing and growing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot stop even cancer disease, and you are controlling nature. Just see their . . . (indistinct) . . .. False, puffed up. They cannot control one disease, and they are going to control nature. We have to believe that.
Harikeśa: (indistinct background comments) He just told me I was spaced out because I wasn't punching this in, but I'm still astounded by the fact that the moon is further away than the sun. (laughter) When the devotees hear this tape, they're not going to believe it.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they could not go. I . . . First of all I said that they might have gone to the Rahu planet.
Harikeśa: Yes, the Fourth Canto.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all my conviction: they have gone nowhere. They have simply stayed in their laboratory, that's all.
Manasvī: Anyone can do that, bring some pictures and bring a rock.
Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think somebody might have told you before, but there was a big scandal right after the moon shot when they said they went to the moon and. . . that it was all staged in the desert of Arizona, that they . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.
Bali-mardana: When Puruṣottama heard that, he blooped. (devotees continue laughing)
Prabhupāda: Yes. In 1978. . . '68 I was questioned by the reporters, "What is your opinion about this moon?" "It is simply a waste of time and energy, that's all. It is all false propaganda." I told to the reporter.
Harikeśa: Actually, these scientists and philosophers, they become very famous and popular by coming up with some brand new theories. So why don't we widely publicize our theories? (break)
Devotee (3): . . .real information about the moon from the Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: Veda. Veda means knowledge. What is this? Some animal?
Paramahaṁsa: Fish. It has those horns, spines, so that no one can bother it. Protection. It's a porcupine fish.
Śrutakīrti: They blow up like a ball. When someone comes to them, they expand very large.
Paramahaṁsa: And their spines stick out straight. It's very dangerous.
Bali-mardana: Poisonous. (break)
Śrutakīrti: It's twenty-five before seven.
Harikeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do we say that they've gone to Rahu simply to placate them?
Prabhupāda: No, accidentally they went to Rahu. Maybe. That is also not . . . (break)
Manasvī: . . .gone at all outside this atmosphere of earth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) . . .haven't gone to moon planet, that is my . . . (break) . . .why they will give it up? That is the proof. America was found by Columbus. So many people came from Europe and utilized it. So if they would have gone to moon planet, they would have utilized it. But they have not gone. That is the fact.
Paramahaṁsa: That was their original proposal, that they can utilize it, make colonies there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. (break)
Devotee (3): . . .the moon exploration, because they thought that we cannot use the moon, like Columbus, they used America.
Prabhupāda: That is an excuse.
Paramahaṁsa: They say it's too much like the desert.
Harikeśa: That's 'cause they were in the desert. (laughs) (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .grow so many nice dates, you know that? You cannot say in the desert there is no . . .
Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yes. Arabia they grow.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) . . .desert, nice watermelon will grow.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nice dates. So people go there, take the dates and take the watermelon. Kṛṣṇa has provided food even there. (break)
Harikeśa: Would one see gross form on a subtle planet?
Harikeśa: Like the moon planet is heavenly planet. They're supposed to have subtle bodies there. So would there be any gross forms?
Prabhupāda: Why subtle body? That is material body.
Harikeśa: So we would not be able to see any traces of a civilization?
Prabhupāda: There is civilization. You have not gone there, rascal. You are simply imagining. (devotees laugh) There is civilization. First thing is, you rascal, you did not go. You are talking only nonsense. That's it. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: . . .Rahu planet, that's a hellish planet?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They might have gone to that hellish planet, that's all.
Bali-mardana: No wonder they left.
Paramahaṁsa: That seems more befitting them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes!
Bali-mardana: They were not qualified to go to the moon, so Kṛṣṇa sent them there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are not qualified. Even in this planet, unless one is bona fide, he is not allowed to enter America. How you can go to the moon planet? That is demigods' planet.
Harikeśa: Some of the astronauts became very religious after they supposedly went.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are intelligent, that "This is all nonsense. Real thing is God." That is . . . They come to their senses. They are intelligent. (break)
(in car) . . .real business is to enhance your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These people, they are wasting time simply to know something else. There is no limit. Kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye (SB 10.14.4). What is moon planet? What business you have got to know the . . .? Whatever is stated in the śāstra, accept it, that's all. What is the use of experiment and going there and then again say, "Oh, it is all failure." Simply waste of time. The arrangement is there by God. That's all. Spending so much money, hard-earned money, unnecessarily and then say, "Oh, it is failure."
Paramahaṁsa: If they were a little bit intelligent and had some knowledge of the Vedas, they would learn that they could go there . . .
Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there. Just like I am speaking. I am not a scientist. On the knowledge of Vedas, that's all.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. Just like you have said in the Easy Journey to Other Planets, you can go there by the mystic yoga process. You don't have to make some space machine.
Ambarīṣa: The scientists want to go there without performing any kind of austerities.
Prabhupāda: But there is austerities.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, actually they end up performing greater austerity.
Prabhupāda: You have to earn money with so much labor and spend it for nothing.
Paramahaṁsa: Billions of dollars. Some of them are working like madmen.
Paramahaṁsa: They work all day and most of the night. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .expedition is exposition of the scientists: useless. But these materialistic persons will be cheated again and again. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The scientists will propose something else, and they will accept. They will never say that "You are failure in your moon expedition. Why you are proposing again something nonsense?" They will never ask. They will pay him, "Yes."
Ambarīṣa: The government doesn't want the people in general to know that the scientists are failures because they feel that the people will be put into a lot of anxiety because of this. So they . . .
Prabhupāda: No, they are already in anxiety. This material world means anxiety. So many problems there are. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyāṁ asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because they accepted this material world as all in all, samudvigna, they are full of anxiety. Just like if you are on a boat and if you know that after some hours the boat will be drowned, then can you remain without anxiety?
Paramahaṁsa: They have some relief, though, because they think that the scientists will be able to protect them.
Prabhupāda: This is their position. This is their position. Just like we are in this car, but we know it that any moment there can be accident. So how we can be without anxiety? In the material world, on account of this material condition, we are not going to stay here. There must be anxiety. But if we close our eyes, that is different thing. Otherwise it is full of anxiety. (break) " . . .be free from anxiety, then surrender to Me. What I say, you do it." That he will not do. They will manufacture their own way of life. They must be in anxiety. They will never hear what Kṛṣṇa says. And our propaganda is that "Just you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and you will be happy." This is our . . . That they will not do. (break)
Ambarīṣa: . . .'60, 1960. When did they start to go to the moon?
Ambarīṣa: I think President Kennedy started the program in 1960.
Prabhupāda: Sending dog first of all?
Ambarīṣa: Yeah, mice and then monkeys and . . .
Devotee: Russians sent the dog first, Laika. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . .desert. But here we find within the desert petrol. Why not get petrol there and solve your power problem? Can I not raise this question?
Ambarīṣa: How would they get it back from the moon?
Prabhupāda: There will be petrol. You take it.
Ambarīṣa: How would they get it back here?
Prabhupāda: As they are coming. They are going and coming. So let them go, and if the surface is desert, then find out oil within.
Paramahaṁsa: But their answer would be, "Well, even if we found oil, it would be impossible to bring it to the earth."
Manasvī: They can make up tanks.
Prabhupāda: No, you can make devices, fill it up, and throw it. (laughter)
(break) . . .mad, you should give them mad suggestion. (laughter) (end)