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750703 - Morning Walk - Denver

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

750703MW-DENVER - July 03, 1975 - 31:11 Minutes

(in car)

Brahmānanda: . . . the sun is the center. In that way, above the sun. (break)

Prabhupāda: Huh? This . . . (indistinct) . . . is not center. It is above the sun. It has his own orbit.

Brahmānanda: Oh. (break)

Prabhupāda: Sun is situated in the middle of the universe. (break) . . .diameter of the universe is . . . Four million or forty million? (break) Sun is situated 200 billion from the circumference of the universe. But the earth is between the sun and the circumference. Therefore it appears to be almost correct, 93 million. Apart from these differences, these people say there was no civilization before two thousand years?

Harikeśa: Three thousand.

Prabhupāda: Three thousand. (break) . . . this knowledge is there in the Bhāgavatam, which was written in words five thousand years ago, but the knowledge was known millions and millions of years.

Harikeśa: Some of the scholars say that because Lord Buddha is predicted in the Bhāgavatam that it proves that the Bhāgavatam was written after Lord Buddha appeared.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: They say that because Lord Buddha is mentioned, it was written after he appeared. This is the opinion of the . . .

Prabhupāda: Buddha said like that?

Harikeśa: The scholars, they say.

Brahmānanda: They say it's not possible to predict a person's appearance.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: They say because it's not possible by ordinary means to predict a person's birth, because Lord Buddha is mentioned in Śrīmad-Bhāgava . . .

Prabhupāda: Still there is a science, Bhṛgu-saṁhitā, which will give you prediction of your next birth. Still there is science, Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. He'll give you description of three lives: your past life, present life and future life. Bhṛgu-saṁhitā. (break) . . . Bhāgavata it is said bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati (SB 1.3.24). Bhaviṣyati means "He will appear." Why it is not possible? You haven't got that knowledge, that is another thing. But it is possible. (break) . . . one word: tri-kāla-jñā. Tri-kāla-jñā means "one who knows past, present and future." Kṛṣṇa says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26): "I know everything, past, present . . ."

Brahmānanda: Equally, He says. Sama tītāni. He knows the past, the present and the future.

Prabhupāda: And He says in another place, "It is not that we were not existing in the past, and neither it is that we shall not exist in the future." So this is past, present, future. Tri-kāla-jñā. So we are not going to the temple?

Śrī Govinda: Oh, yes. . . . (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . .July 3rd, July 4th not the same body.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Still, they will say that there's still no reason . . .

Prabhupāda: They will say so many nonsense. (laughter) Who is going to take it? They are rejected as nonsense. Anyone who is a speculator, he is a nonsense because he has no standard knowledge. Next day they will say, "Oh, no, this is not. This is." They are doing that. That is not knowledge.

(break) (on walk)

Devotee (1): We were discussing in Bhagavad-gītā class last night that during our life we are changing our bodies so many different times, and at the time of death we are also changing our body to another body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you get another body.

Devotee (1): What is the difference of changing our body during our lifetime and at death?

Prabhupāda: This is . . . I have said many times. Just like you are using this shirt, and it is not usable, you throw it and again accept another. (break) . . . understand this is a difficult problem. (laughs) (break)

Ambarīṣa: . . . second we are dying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dying means changing body, that's all.

Ambarīṣa: So we're changing bodies all the time.

Prabhupāda: It is going on. You will find it: A creeper is growing. Today you see it is. . . leaf has grown so much, and next moment you'll see it has grown so much. You will see. (break)

Yadubara: . . .that asparagus that you eat, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that will grow two inches in one night.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yadubara: Very quickly. (break)

Suraśreṣṭha: . . .the same body, but just the parts are changing. They say that it's not actually the whole body that's changing, but just you're changing parts like . . .

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. "Parts are changing; the body is not changing." Just see. (laughter) Just rascaldom. "Parts are changing; body is not changing."

Suraśreṣṭha: Just like a car—you take spark plugs and put new spark plugs in, but still, it's the same car.

Prabhupāda: When the whole parts are changing, then where is the original body? When the whole parts are changed, then it is to be concluded the body is changed. There are so many parts. If this is changed, this is changed, this is changed, then where is the original body? (laughter) Just see their rascaldom.

Yadubara: Parts make up the whole.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "The parts are changing; the whole is not changing." Just see. Therefore we say rascals only.

Suraśreṣṭha: They say that the brain stays the same, that the brain cells never . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore take them as rascal. Everything is changing.

Brahmānanda: You brain is the same as it was when you were an infant?

Suraśreṣṭha: They say that there's new information coming in, but the brain cells don't die.

Devotee (2): The memory, the memory is staying the same. (break)

Devotee (3): You had said on a earlier on a morning walk, on a tape, that if one enters into the spiritual world that. . . you were asked that he will never have to return. And you said that if it's a desire, he can return to the material world.

Prabhupāda: So, what is your objection?

Devotee (3): I was just wondering, if the spirit soul being in the spiritual world is eternally liberated, how can he return? By desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he desires, he can come again. That option is always there. Just like I remain in India; I come here. And if I like, I may not come. It is my option.

Ambarīṣa: When we get to the spiritual sky, we'll always be able to remember how horrible it is down here, huh? We'll always be able to remember how terrible it is in the material world?

Prabhupāda: It is terrible.

Ambarīṣa: Yes, we will be able to remember that.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. When one remembers that this world is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), is a place of misery, then we can go. As long as we shall think, "Oh, it is very nice place," we'll have to remain here. Kṛṣṇa is so kind, "All right, remain in this very nice place."

Brahmānanda: You gave the example yesterday of Lord Indra. When he took birth here as a hog, then he didn't want to leave. He thought it was nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he also thought it is a very nice place.

Kāśīrāma: Queen Kuntī was always praying that the calamities would happen again and again so that she would remember Kṛṣṇa. If the calamities are always happening in the material world, we will realize it is a terrible place to stay.

Prabhupāda: This is jñāna, knowledge. When one comes to this conclusion, "This is worthless," that is jñāna, knowledge. And so long one will think, "No, it is not always bad; sometimes very good," that is ignorance. (laughs)

Kuruśreṣṭha: They say that without the bad, then the good wouldn't be as good.

Prabhupāda: So you remain with bad and good. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. That possibility is here. Sometimes you are going to the higher, heavenly planets, a long duration of life, better standard of enjoyment—again coming back. (break) Good and bad is exemplified: just like I catch you and put down the water, and when you are suffocated, I raise you little, and you say, "Ohhh. (laughter) It is very nice." But you do not know again you are going to be . . . You see? This "good," "bad," is here like that. He is put into the water and suffocated, and when he is taken out little, he says, "Oh, it is very good. It is very good." The rascal does not know the next moment he is going to be again drowned in that way. That is going on.

Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jana . . . That was the chief punishment formerly. If one has to be punished, instead of putting into the jail and feed him, the officers will take him to a river and put him in the water. In this way, one day doing, he will say, "I will never do these things. Please excuse me." You see. Daṇḍya-jane rāja-jane nadite cubaya. (break) . . .unless one remembers this, that "To be in the material world, how suffocating it is," he will not fit for going to back to Godhead. He must be completely detestful. If he keeps little attachment, "No, it is very good sometimes," then you have to remain here. (break) "This is not permanent. I shall be put next moment in the bad condition." That he must know. That is knowledge. And if he makes compromise, then he has to be again . . . (break)

Devotee (4): . . .consciousness part of this life, up to the time of death, in our next life we will be put in a situation immediately where we can take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness again, or will we have to suffer karma before we came into Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: You will get Kṛṣṇa conscious again. Yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāya . . . Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate (BG 6.41). A Kṛṣṇa conscious person will be given all comforts of material life so that he may regain without any botheration.

Yadubara: Sometimes it is stated that Kṛṣṇa will take everything away from the devotee.

Prabhupāda: That is special favor, (laughter) that "This rascal is again attached. Take all his . . ." That is special favor. That is not ordinary favor. So that when everything is taken away, he will completely surrender to Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, I have nothing except You." Tomā vine ke āche āmāra: "I have nothing." That is very good.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Once one performs devotional service, then he can't get away from Kṛṣṇa. Can he still get away? It seems like . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that option is always, because you are independent.

Kuruśreṣṭha: I see with myself that if I try to get away a little then He beats me so much that I have to come back. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is special favor.

Yadubara: So Kṛṣṇa is directly controlling that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When He sees, "That fool wants Me, at the same time, material world. So take his material possession, everything, so that he will want only Me, that's all." Actually, it was done to me. (laughs) I have got practical experience. I did not want to take sannyāsa. I thought that I shall do business. And Kṛṣṇa forced me to take sannyāsa and all, everything, dismantled.

Devotee (4): Kṛṣṇa's mercy on us.

Yadubara: But your business was successful . . .

Prabhupāda: I was thinking of becoming Birla, but I am now more than Birla. This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Brahmānanda: Birla gives you money now.

Prabhupāda: Not only that: how many branches Birla has? It is an example, yes.

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if a devotee gets sick, should he go and take medicine?

Prabhupāda: Better not to take.

Devotee (4): Just depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good. What is this?

Kuruśreṣṭha: Rosehips.

Yadubara: You said the other day, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that we should take care of disease if it comes. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was also saying fire and so on.

Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness.

Brahmānanda: Fasting is one way of eliminating the disease without taking medicine.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a Indian proverb that "Disease and unwanted guest, if you don't give food, they will go away." If some guest has come whom you do not want, don't give him food. Then he will go away. (laughter) Similarly, disease, if you fast, it will go away. (break) . . .another story: prahareṇa dhanañjaya. One gentleman had eight or nine daughters and son-in-law. So when they came, he was giving them good food and shelter, everything. So then they saw, "We are very comfortably living at father-in-law's expense," so they did not want to go. The father-in-law saw, "It is very dangerous that these all the son-in-laws are not going."

Then he began to . . . First day he did not supply salt. So one son-in-law say, "Oh, they are now disrespectful. They have not given salt." So one went away. And next day, something else, something else, something else, shortened, shortened. So those who were intelligent, they went away. The last one, he was not going. Then his brother-in-laws thought that "Give him good beating." Then he went away. Prahareṇa dhanañjaya. Others, those who were intelligent, they, when they thought that "Now there is disrespectful dealing, they are not giving everything," so they gradually . . . The last one, he was a rascal. He was beaten severely; then he went away.

Yadubara: So if we're beaten by this material nature, then we'll go away.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. No, material nature's business is beating and kicking. That's his only business. But we are so fool, we are taking, "Oh, very nice kicking." That is the disease. We accept the kicking as very nice. That is foolishness. We are suffering always by three kinds of. . . ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika disturbances. There is disturbance in the body, in the mind, disturbance by other living entities, so many, disturbed by climate, disturbed by famine. Always disturbance. Still, we are thinking, "It is very nice place." This is foolishness.

Still, we are trying to improve it. That is foolishness. He does not think that "What is the meaning of improvement? The disturbing is always continuing." That does not come to his brain. They are making improvement. (break) . . .improvement, they can say, "This is improvement." But how long this improvement will go? If there is no rainfall, what this improvement will help? So that is not in your hand. That is ādhidaivika. It depends on the demigods. If they want, they can stop complete, no rainfall. Then what this improvement will do?

Brahmānanda: There'll be no water for their machines.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking that "This is improvement." What is this nonsense improvement? You are dependent fully on other elements. What improvement will do? And Kṛṣṇa says, "This is a place for misery." How you will improve? This is folly. This is illusion. Kṛṣṇa says, "This place is for suffering," and you are making improvement: "Yes, we are advancing. In future we shall live. Nobody will die." Therefore they are called rascals. Persons who are trying to do something which is impossible, they are fools, mūḍha. They do not see; still, they hope, "Yes, we are trying. We shall do in future." This is going on. This is the example by the ass. The ass . . .

Driver is sitting on the back of the ass and showing one bunch of grass, and the ass is thinking, "I will get it." (laughter) And he is going on, and he is sitting safely, that "The ass will go on." So our improvement is like that. "Just little forward, then I shall get the grass." He will never get the grass. That he has no brain, that "I am improving; the grass also improving, going on." That they do not see. Now we invented so many airship. It was thought, "Oh, now it will be very nice. Within two hours we shall reach somewhere." Now there are so many dangers. Now there is problem, how to protect us from these accidents.

Brahmānanda: Now they have too many airplanes.

Prabhupāda: Too many airplanes. So where is the improvement? Improvement means to die all together two hundred men at a time. This is improvement.

Kuruśreṣṭha: They are trying to create a plastic body with plastic heart transplants and plastic liver. They feel that as soon as they can replace all the breakable parts with replaceable ones . . .

Prabhupāda: That is a Frankenstein? (laughter)

Devotee: Yes. Frankenstein.

Yadubara: They're very persistent, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is the foolishness. Fools are very persistent.

Brahmānanda: I was reading that in order to go to the moon, it took ten years and the cost was twenty-five billion dollars.

Prabhupāda: Just see how foolish they are. And again they are trying. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Chewing the chewed. This is their business. Horrible civilization.

Kāśīrāma: Mistaking suffering for happiness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambarīṣa: They are always trying to look for the bright side, but there is no bright side.

Prabhupāda: Just like north of Sweden, there is no sunrise?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So where is bright side? Where is bright side? Vedic injunction is, tamasi mā jyotir gama: "Don't remain in this darkness; go to the bright world." Jyotir gama . (break) . . .to create some bright side. He will not be allowed to enjoy it. He will have to die. So where is your bright side? (laughs) (break) . . .for preparing?

Brahmānanda: For the moon? Twenty-five billion dollars.

Prabhupāda: So again I am trying to go another planet. Where is the guarantee that it will be successful?

Brahmānanda: On the contrary. If they failed once, then we should think that they would fail again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is animalism. A dog is coming, and you show him some stick or beat him. He will go away for the time being; again he will come. That is dog. He doesn't get lesson by one. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30): repeating the same thing again and again. That is animalism.

Yadubara: They actually think that they were successful.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Yadubara: They think they were successful.

Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high court, one man was condemned to death. I told you?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client—he was morose—"Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) . . .condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. (break)

Brahmānanda: . . .English?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.

Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But the barrister, he was English.

Prabhupāda: He was appointed because he was a big barrister. Formerly any European, he is very big. So he appointed a very big barrister.

Brahmānanda: Oh, he was a rich Indian.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: How he could get such a . . .

Prabhupāda: He was a medical man. Yes. (break) . . .they have arranged to have the meeting with this Professor Dimmock?

Brahmānanda: I didn't ask. They were supposed to do it.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)