760723 - Lecture CC Madhya 20.113 - London

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Go-previous.pngLectures by Date, 1976
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760723CC-LONDON - July 23, 1976 - 28.37 Minutes

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (devotees repeat) (chants verse, etc.)

śaktayaḥ sarva-bhāvānām
yato 'to brahmaṇas tās tu
sargādyā bhāva-śaktayaḥ
bhavanti taptatāṁ śreṣṭha
pāvakasya yathoṣṇatā

Translation: (02:37) "All the creative energies, which are inconceivable to a common man, exist in the Supreme Absolute Truth. These inconceivable energies act in the process of creation, maintenance and annihilation. O chief of the ascetics, just as there are two energies possessed by fire—namely heat and light—these inconceivable creative energies are the natural characteristics of the Absolute Truth." (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . full of living entities, and the moon planet there is no living entity. They are doubting also in the Mars planet. But we get information from the śāstra that every planet is full of living entities. Every planet. Jana-kīrṇa. This very word is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, jana-kīrṇa, and there is vivid description of different planets and different types of oceans, just like milk ocean. We have got here examples, sweet water and salted water. So there is sweet ocean also. That is mentioned in the śāstra. Not that in this planet there is salted ocean and . . . There are other planets where there is sweet-water ocean and milk ocean and liquor ocean and oil ocean, ghee ocean, butter ocean, milk . . . butter ocean, and so many different types.

So if we bring everything to our conception, that becomes cintya, conceivable. But that is not the fact. Therefore here it is stated, acintya-jñāna-gocarāḥ. We have to receive this knowledge from sources which can inform us about all these things inconceivable by us. It is not possible to bring the inconceivable within our conceivable limit. That is not possible. That is foolishness. Mūḍha. Mūḍha will not believe. We are finding out, try to . . . This is knowledge. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), to find out the source of everything, the Absolute Truth. And when the Absolute Truth comes down to inform us, Kṛṣṇa, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8), we don't believe it. First of all we cannot understand it, and if the Supreme Personality of Godhead comes personally to speak about Himself, we do not believe it. This is our position. First of all we shall challenge, "Can you show me God?" And if God comes Himself we don't believe, then what is our position? You want to see God. All right, God has come here. See, here is God. "No, this is idol worship." In the Bengali there is a word, ei gule nipamsa pechlo belo gelo(?). So this is our position. This position will not help us. We must admit our position that in the God's creation everything is inconceivable by us. We cannot calculate within our limitation. That is not possible.

Therefore śāstra says, acintya khalu ye bhava (CC Adi 17.308, Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma parva 5.22). The same word in another way: na tas tarkyena yojayet (CC Adi 17.308, Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma parva 5.22). Things which are beyond your conception, don't try to understand it by your so-called logic and argument. But one logic, one argument, if we are sincere, then we can accept even by logic and argument, that . . . That is also stated in śāstra, Bhagavad-gītā, that Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā.

sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya
mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ
tāsāṁ brahma mahad yonir
ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā
(BG 14.4)

So we find mahad-yoni, mahā-tattva, the material elements, is the mother. Everything is coming out of the womb of the mother. Whatever we see in this creation—the plants, the trees and living entities, and we are speaking especially of the living entities, and there are 8,400,000 different forms—they are coming from earth. That we can see. It doesn't require great intelligence. Any boy can understand that it is coming out of these five elements—means earth, water . . . The grass is coming out of earth, the fish is coming out of the water. So we have got experiences in two elements. But we have got experience also that living entities coming out of air. So earth, water, air . . . There are living entities in fire also, but because our knowledge is limited, we do not see. We cannot conceive that in the fire also there can be living entities. And why not? There are five elements, matter. So if earth is producing life, if water is producing life, if air is producing life, why not fire? What is the fault there? Everything is producing life.

So the mother produces children. So many children are coming out of the . . . Tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma (BG 14.4). Yoni, yoni means mother. So the children are there, the mother is there, and where is the father? A commonsense. Is there any mother can produce children without father? Is there any science can prove that a mother without connection with the father has produced child? No. If you say, "I cannot see the father," you do not see your fathers, there are many children nowadays who do not know who is father. But that does not mean there is no father. Common sense. There is father. Similarly, we see so many living entities produced by the mother, material nature—there must be father. And the father personally says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4)—"I am the father." So why these rascals, they say that there is no God? There must be God, and He has got inconceivable potencies. Everything is being done by Him. If you say nature is doing, nature is a machine. Nature is not the doer. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

So less intelligent, for them, it is inconceivable, but those who are intelligent, they take knowledge from the right source. Just like even though I do not know who is my father, but if I take information from my mother, then I can know. Mother says, "My dear child, he's your father," there's no question of research. You can immediately understand your father. Father must be there. But I do not know, that may be a problem, but when the mother says, "Here is your father," then where is the difficulty? So mother is the source of knowledge of the father. The Vedas, they are called mother. Veda-mātā. These books, Vedic knowledge, this is the mother. From mother you can take information that there is father. And here is father. Who is father? Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda (BS 5.1). And the father comes personally and He informs, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7), ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Then where is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? But because we are rascals, we'll not believe mother, we'll not believe father. We, with our tiny brain, we shall make research and make things topsy-turvy and pass on as great scientist, doctor. This is our position. Therefore śāstra says that "You rascals, do not waste your time in that way." Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet (CC Adi 17.308, Mahābhārata, Bhīṣma parva 5.22).

So according to Vedic system, the difference between atheist and theist is that the atheist means who do not believe in the version of the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not blind. Don't think wrongly. We are confident. We sometimes challenge big, big scientists. On what ground? Not whimsically, but on the ground of śāstra. So we may not please everyone, but we cannot go out of this scope. We know that in the moon planet, in the Mars planet and all other planets, Jupiter and others, there are living entities, there is a predominating deity in each and every planet. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). So if there is no living entity in the sun planet, how there is Vivasvān, the sun god, or the predominating deity in the sun planet? So we cannot believe this version that there is no living entity in the sun, moon, or . . . There are living entity, full of, jana-kīrṇa, this word is used. Congested. Just like here in this planet we are congested: so many living entities, different varieties. Similarly, the same congestion is there in all other planets. So do not try to poke your nose which is inconceivable. And that also not assertion. You say "Perhaps," "Maybe," "Millions of years," "It might have been." All suggestion. So if you want knowledge, then you have to consult this Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, the source of knowledge. That is called Veda. And the ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the version.

What is the use of studying Vedas? To understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly . . . Of course, it is not possible thoroughly, but it is possible also. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything. So if you believe it, it is understanding thoroughly. If you believe that what Kṛṣṇa says is fact, then it is understanding thoroughly. If you don't believe, then it is not thoroughly. Because if you make research that "Kṛṣṇa says, 'I am the origin of everything.' Let me make research," that will not be possible. Inconceivable. But if you believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, then you've studied thoroughly. Where is the difficulty? To study thoroughly does not require much education; simply you believe Him. And if you believe Him . . . Actually, that is the fact. There must be . . . Just like the same example: there must be a father of all this creation. Mother nature is mother, and we are all creation, born of material nature. Then there must be father. And when the father says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), "I am father," then if we believe this version, then thorough knowledge. Father, mother, children. That is family, creation.

So yato 'ato brahmaṇas tās tu sargādyā bhāva-śaktayaḥ (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.3.2). So this creation is another. Just like children is creation of the semina of the father, similarly, the whole thing is creation of the Absolute Truth. And the example is given: bhavanti tapatāṁ śreṣṭha pāvakasya yathoṣṇatā (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 1.3.2). The fire, the fire must have heat, and by heat you can create so many things. In the Western countries, the electricity . . . What is electricity? It is heat. So heat . . . Through electricity so many things are being created, through electric energy. The heat is created and the cool is also created. The refrigerator is going on by electric current, and heater is also going on. Two contradictory, but still, the energy is the same. Similarly, viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā (CC Madhya 6.154). It is, we have already described, Viṣṇu, Lord, the Supreme Lord, all-pervading, His energy is also spiritual. But when we cannot understand it, that is material. Otherwise, the energy . . . Just like electricity. The electricity is working in the refrigerator—it is cool. So therefore in the refrigerator there is no appreciation of the heat, although heat is there. But in the heater there is direct appreciation. But the energy is the same.

So material means when we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, when we do not appreciate His creative energy or when we are in ignorance. That is called material life. So all these fools and rascals who are unaware of Kṛṣṇa's energy, they are all fools and rascals. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Therefore we have taken it very easily. Because we are not very advanced scientists, we take the words of Kṛṣṇa, that Kṛṣṇa says,

na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
prapadyante narādhamāḥ
āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
(BG 7.15)

Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he is within these groups. What are these groups? Duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means one has got merit, but the merit is utilized for sinful activities. You can use your merit two ways—for good purpose and for bad purpose also. Just like thieves and rogues, they have got merit. They know how to steal, how to cheat. It is not unintelligent. They are intelligent. But their intelligence, merit, is used for bad purpose only. They are called duṣkṛtina. And mūḍha—purposefully they are trying to avoid. Every step they are being baffled, and still, they are trying to avoid the supreme controller. Therefore mūḍha. And narādhama. Narādhama means the lowest of the mankind. In the animal life they could not understand Kṛṣṇa, or God—that is not possible—and they have got this human form of life . . . In this life one can understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are trying. That is possible. But if we do not take advantage of this human form of life to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa, then you are lowest of the mankind. So na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamaḥ māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. And if we say that "There are so many doctors of philosophy, doctors of science, they are also hovering under this darkness? How is that? Then what about their education?" Yes, their education, certainly, but māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. The result of education, knowledge, that is taken away by māyā.

Therefore we should not be washed away by these mūḍhas' conclusion, narādhamas' conclusion, māyayāpahṛta-jñānās' conclusion. We should take up seriously the conclusion in the śāstra, conclusion given by Kṛṣṇa. Then our life will be successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. (offer obeisances)

(27:48) (kīrtana) (end).