771002 - Conversation - Vrndavana
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just writing some notes. I was remembering the discussion we had, all of your disciples and you, when we were considering whether we should go to Vṛndāvana or not, how we were all giving different arguments, one side or the other. So I was remembering how . . . I was just writing down some of the different arguments. Then we all concluded that the best program was to come to Vṛndāvana. And now I can see it was the right conclusion, because I feel that we are at home. Here it is home. Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma are here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you have a nice rest? I think so. I think you rested for about three hours in a row just now.
Prabhupāda: Three hours?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's about . . . It's nearly a quarter to one. You were very tired from the trip. (break) I've heard it said that when great personalities arrive, everything is always cleansed. So I see that upon your coming, everything is cleansed by Kṛṣṇa sending all of this rain. The atmosphere becomes cool, and the sound of the rain is also very pleasing.
Prabhupāda: And there is sun? Sun also was there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The sunshine? There was sunshine when we arrived, but now it is cloudy and rain. I was wondering, Śrīla Prabhupāda, whether you would like for the kavirāja to be called. I was thinking he might be called tomorrow. Today no need for him to come. Better that you mostly relax today. I was thinking that as you said, better or worse, some husband must be there. (Prabhupāda laughs) So we should have some doctor. Is that all right? It's so nice to be with you when you are in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: So you can do the needful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do the needful?
Prabhupāda: (Prabhupāda's voice is very weak and low now) Yes. You all consider. Is that all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In what regard, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: In every regard.
Hari-śauri: Everything. Every regard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. All you have to do is think of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Give me that chance, and rest you'll do.
Hari-śauri: Darśana and rest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Give me that chance," I think.
Prabhupāda: Is that all right?
Prabhupāda: Gurukṛpā will also remain here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukṛpā should also remain here. Yes. Actually he is quite . . . He's quite devoted to Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma as well as to Your Divine Grace. He likes the two brothers very much.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes he likes to go out to collect for Them. Is that all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So starting tomorrow, we will go in front of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma for a half hour every day?
Prabhupāda: Or less time.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or less time. As you feel comfortable.
Prabhupāda: Let us try.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Maybe Baladeva will give you the strength to sit for a half hour there. (break) . . . comfortable in here? This new bed is all right? It is a jumbo size, very big size bed.
Prabhupāda: Where is Viśvambhara?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well actually, I'm going to call him now. I wanted you to, you know, wake up, because I didn't want him to have to wait so long. So I thought better to let you rest. Now I can call him?
Hari-śauri: Does Prabhupāda want that moved down there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You could find out. He might want to also have a quick sponge bath. He hasn't bathed since the trip. Yes, I think we ought to give him a sponge bath. (aside:) You want to call . . . (indistinct) (break)
Bhagatjī: . . . has been slow, due to the difficulty of cement. Cement was the problem. But we have store now full. Gate will be finished within this month, one gate. The other gate will begin after finishing this.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That gate looks very good, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami gate, Bhaktivedanta Swami Marg, Bhaktivedanta Swami Gurukula.
Upendra: (indistinct to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa) . . . second sheet, because if it gets cold at night then we can . . . (indistinct)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma's garland, tulasī garland. Fragrant.
Upendra: Would you like to go back into sitting up here, Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's more comfortable. (pause) (break)
Bhagatjī: (Hindi) For eleven days it stopped, and then from since last two days it has again become.
Prabhupāda: And rate have been . . .?
Bhagatjī: (Hindi) The rate of the grain has gone so high. Last year the rate of wheat was forty rupees; this year, seventy-eight rupees. Gram, fifty rupees; this year, eighty rupees. And, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that everything has gone so high. Yaba, this barley, was thirty rupees; this year, fifty rupees at present. And it is only up to April. And new rate will be coming in the month of April. So this means after seven months.
Brahmānanda: Why is it so high?
Bhagatjī: The rains have destroyed all crops.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want tilaka?
Bhagatjī: (Hindi) From Delhi, only day before yesterday the way is clear.
Bhagatjī: The road is clear only day before yesterday. Again it is raining. Only day before yesterday the road is clear from Delhi to Vṛndāvana, Delhi to Mathurā, that road.
Brahmānanda: The road is clear?
Bhagatjī: Because it was blocked. Everything was . . .
Hari-śauri: It was blocked. Yesterday they got through, but only just. The day before it was blocked. Now today again it's raining.
Prabhupāda: The buses stopped?
Bhagatjī: Buses stopped, Prabhupāda; taxis stopped. Only they are allowing some cars to go. Yesterday only car could go. (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the planes were on strike. The planes were not going either. In Bombay, airports, planes . . . no planes were leaving. We were lucky to get the first-class train.
Hari-śauri: The road is very bad, though, anyway. It wouldn't have been passable, not for Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would have taken three to four hours to go by car from Delhi in this condition. And bumpy. The train journey was not so bad, I think. Not so bad. The weather was nice.
Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) . . . (break) . . . water for drinking?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Upendra Prabhu? Is there a drink for Prabhupāda?
Hari-śauri: Mung jāl is ready.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's ready. Yes, we prepared mung water.
Upendra: Also spinach . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think . . . what's her name, Praṇava's wife. Praṇava, his wife, she was cooking with Kulādri today. She prepared two things—mung jāl and the water from spinach. So that's supposed to be very good also. Would you like to try? Praṇava said that the feature of the spinach water is that it's very good for strength and very easily digestible. That's what he said. You might like to try something of both.
Prabhupāda: There is fresh milk?
Bhagatjī: Fresh milk.
Prabhupāda: Half water, half milk.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right now would you like to have some mung water?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mung water. And spinach water?
Prabhupāda: Little, little.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. And milk we'll keep ready for whenever you want. We have some milk?
Bhagatjī: Any cow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Black cow.
Bhagatjī: (indistinct discussion about getting milk from cow) We will keep one cow ready at once.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, all the time. One cow. Bhagatjī says one cow will be kept ready all the time, so when you say you want milk, immediately they will go and milk this cow. (chuckling)
Prabhupāda: Hmm. (pause) That's all right. You can . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. We'll go and take our lunch now? Okay. (aside:) Prabhupāda's going to take mung water now. Er, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Now you'll be taking mung water, so in about a couple of hours would you like to try some milk? Okay. So we'll take leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda, take our meal. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (reading:)
- ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ
- ye 'nye ca pāpā yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ
- śudhyanti tasmai prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ
- (SB 2.4.18)
Prabhupāda: Where is beginning?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is the beginning?
Prabhupāda: That chapter?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, these are prayers offered by Śukadeva Gosvāmī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to know what the first prayer is?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on reading.
- śrī-śuka uvāca
- namaḥ parasmai puruṣāya bhūyase
- gṛhīta-śakti-tritayāya dehinām
- (SB 2.4.12)
"Śukadeva Gosvāmī said . . ."
Prabhupāda: Read slowly but correctly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. (repeats verse slower and correctly) "Śukadeva Gosvāmī said: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who, for the creation of the material world, accepts the three modes of nature. He is the complete whole residing within the body of everyone, and His ways are inconceivable." Bhūyo namaḥ sad-vṛjina-cchide 'satām.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "This material world is a manifestation of the three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and the Supreme Lord, for the creation, maintenance and destruction of the material world, accepts three predominating forms of Brahmā, Viṣṇu and Śaṅkara (Śiva). As Viṣṇu He enters into every body materially created. As Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He enters into every universe, and as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu He enters in the body of every living being. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, being the origin of all viṣṇu-tattvas, is addressed here as paraḥ pumān, or Puruṣottama, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā (BG 15.18), or the complete whole. The puruṣāvatāras are therefore His plenary expansions. Bhakti-yoga is the only process by which one can become competent to know Him. Because the empiric philosophers and mystic yogīs cannot conceive of the Personality of Godhead, He is called anupalakṣya-vartmane, the Lord of the inconceivable way, or bhakti-yoga."
- bhūyo namaḥ sad-vṛjina-cchide 'satām
- puṁsāṁ punaḥ pāramahaṁsya āśrame
- vyavasthitānām anumṛgya-dāśuṣe
- (SB 2.4.13)
Translation: "I again offer my respectful obeisances" (bell rings) "unto the form of complete existence and transcendence, who is the liberator from all distresses of the pious devotees and the destroyer of the further advances in atheistic temperament of the nondevotee demons. For the transcendentalists who are situated in the topmost spiritual perfection, He grants their specific destinations."
Prabhupāda: What is the time now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Time is now five minutes to four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: What is that bell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That bell? It didn't ring four times earlier.
Upendra: Temple bell
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (discussing with Upendra) On the quarter hour? No, temple bell rings on the half hour once.
Upendra: Wouldn't be the same when people come and visit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, there is a bell in the front of the temple which people sometimes ring as they enter. Do you want to hear the purport to this verse? Yes? Purport: "Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the complete form of all existence, both material and spiritual. Akhila means complete, or that which is not khila, inferior. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, there are two kinds of nature (prakṛti), namely the material nature and the spiritual nature, or the external and internal potencies of the Lord. The material nature is called aparā, or inferior, and the spiritual nature is called superior or transcendental. Therefore the form of the Lord is not of the inferior, material nature. He is complete transcendence. And He is mūrti, or having transcendental form. The less intelligent men, who are unaware of His transcendental form, describe Him as impersonal Brahman. But Brahman is simply the rays of His transcendental body [yasya prabhā (BS 5.40])]. The devotees, who are aware of His transcendental form, render Him service; therefore the Lord also reciprocates by His causeless mercy and thus delivers His devotees from all distresses. The pious men who follow the rulings of the Vedas are also dear to Him, and therefore the pious men of this world are also protected by Him. The impious and the nondevotees are against the principle of the Vedas, so such persons are always hampered from making advances in their nefarious activities. Some of them, who are specially favored by the Lord, are killed by Him personally, as in the cases of Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa, etc. and thus such demons get salvation and are thereby checked from further progress in their demoniac activities. Just like a kind father, either in His favor upon the devotees or His punishment of the demons He is ever kind to everyone because He is the complete existence for all individual existence.
"The paramahaṁsa stage of existence is the highest perfectional stage of spiritual values. According to Śrīmatī Kuntīdevī, the Lord is factually understood by the paramahaṁsas only. As there is gradual realization of the transcendence from impersonal Brahman to localized Paramātmā to the Personality of Godhead, Puruṣottama, Lord Kṛṣṇa, similarly there is gradual promotion of one's situation in the spiritual life of sannyāsa. Kuṭīcaka, bahūdaka, parivrājakācārya and paramahaṁsa are gradual progressive stages in the renounced order of life, sannyāsa, and Queen Kuntīdevī, the mother of the Pāṇḍavas, has spoken about them in her prayers to Lord Kṛṣṇa (Canto One, Chapter Eight). The paramahaṁsas are generally found among both the impersonalists and the devotees, but according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (as it is clearly stated by Kuntīdevī), pure bhakti-yoga is understood by the paramahaṁsas, and she has especially mentioned that the Lord descends [paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8) especially to award bhakti-yoga to the paramahaṁsas. So ultimately the paramahaṁsas, in the true sense of the term, are unalloyed devotees of the Lord. Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has directly accepted that the highest destination is bhakti-yoga, by which one accepts the transcendental loving service of the Lord. Those who accept the path of bhakti-yoga are the factual paramahaṁsas.
"Since the Lord is very kind to everyone, the impersonalists . . ." (break)
Hari-śauri: . . . reminding them that the caukidāra wasn't ringing the bell, until it became established.
Brahmānanda: It's been going on for years. When I was the secretary this was Prabhupāda's . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: After my departure they stopped this? (aside:) You may take. Where is Akṣayānanda? (break) (bell rings)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hari-śauri? Śrīla Prabhupāda, they just rang the bell now.
Prabhupāda: He is going . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the half-hour bell. Before was the four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, this is half hour?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Hari-śauri? (break) It's starting to get darker early. Sun is setting earlier now, I think, than it was when we were last here. (break) "The politicians of the world may remain in their respective . . ." (break) . . . to see that things are going on.
Prabhupāda: The leaders are . . . Similarly, leaders of this temple, they will have to organize. Hmm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we're able to see these things are going on.
Prabhupāda: But you never inquire.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, the bell went off on time.
Prabhupāda: What kind of ringing was going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What kind of ringing was going on? If it is going on whimsically, then that is not very good. I don't think I have seen Akṣayānanda from the morning.
Brahmānanda: He was here. When you arrived into your room he came. He was sitting in the room.
Hari-śauri: He was driving your car from Mathurā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he was also here when Bhagatjī came here.
Prabhupāda: He came?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is my concern, that such huge, huge establishment, if properly, regularly not managed, then again everything will be finished.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think that that's going to happen, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We're too much indebted to you to allow what you have established to go . . . to become spoiled.
Prabhupāda: Please see to that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: In this condition it is impossible for me.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All you should have to do is just think about Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kindly give me that chance.
Brahmānanda: (to a devotee:) "Kindly give me that chance."
Prabhupāda: In this condition, even I cannot move my body on the bed. Only chance you should give me—let me die little peacefully, without any anxiety. I have given in writing everything, whatever you wanted—my will, my executive(?) power, everything. Disaster will happen if you cannot manage it. Hmm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we do not want any disaster to happen. Our only business as your sons and servants is to maintain what you have established. Even if we don't increase it, if we just can maintain it . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That'll be . . . You've done so much. If it's even maintained, it will be a great credit. We shall be proud if people will say that "These young men are fit sons of their Guru Mahārāja." That would be our great pride if people will say that of us, that "They were worthy sons of their Guru Mahārāja." (break)
Prabhupāda: I must thank you that you took me to London and again brought me without any difficulties. That's a great credit for you. That I am thanking you, that in this condition, a bundle of bones, you did it. Kṛṣṇa will . . . Yesterday I saw that Central Station, Bombay, so much crowded. Unexpectedly. Is it not remarkable?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm.
Prabhupāda: Because they have introduced this train. Twenty-four hours this deluxe train is running.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's a train that's even faster, called the Rajdhani. Seventeen hours.
Brahmānanda: Also there was air strike. So people who would normally take airplane, they're taking train.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja made one Life Member aboard the train, a very nice gentleman living on Marine Drive, quite wealthy. He says he never takes the train, only flies. But he went to the airport at four o'clock, and the airport said, "We have no flights. All flights cancelled." They didn't even give the courtesy to call up the people to tell them the flight was cancelled, although they had the telephone numbers of the ticket purchasers. So the man had to take the train.
Prabhupāda: The strike instrument invented by modern civilization, so dangerous.
Hari-śauri: Means the government becomes completely controlled by the lowest working class.
Prabhupāda: Naturally. Without hands and legs, how one can function? Therefore Vedic civilization, that everyone is engaged.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just like in our temples. Everyone is engaged in some service. We don't reject anyone.
Prabhupāda: No. The system should be made in such a way that everyone is engaged.
Hari-śauri: With these farms that is very easy to do. No unemployment. Everybody can work. Next to our farm in Australia there is one man, he has five hundred acres of land, but he sends his wife out to work because he's so lazy, he does not work the land. Simply they put some cows there to become fat and then kill them. He has five hundred acres of land. (break)
Prabhupāda: Husband does not do.
Hari-śauri: This is the modern disease. Everyone is so lazy. You have always pointed out that there is so much land unused. Now no one wants to work. It is much simpler for them to go and work for eight hours a day in some office and get some bits of paper money and then buy from the grocery store.
Brahmānanda: Or even if they're farmers, all they do is just graze cows. And they don't do any work. They just have the cows eat, and then they sell them.
Prabhupāda: And maintain slaughterhouse, eh?
Prabhupāda: So you have kīrtana now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. I'll bring the little kartālas. (break) . . . that the bells are being rung on time, on the hour and the half hour.
Prabhupāda: It is going on?
Akṣayānanda: Oh, yes. Everything's going on nicely, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So the bank has dispatched them, no?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Has the bank dispatched those two deposits? I wrote you one letter. You received that?
Akṣayānanda: I only got that letter. The bank was away, and now you have come, I'll send them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The bank was away?
Akṣayānanda: The bank was not here on that day. I could not check it now, yet. The letter only came, and today is Sunday.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tomorrow, first thing, Prabhupāda.
Akṣayānanda: Tomorrow, first thing, I'll check it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The deposits were due on the 25th and on the 30th. They became matured. So one should have been dispatched on the 25th and the other should have been dispatched on the 30th.
Prabhupāda: No, the letter came so late?
Akṣayānanda: It came. The bank was on strike.
Akṣayānanda: It came. The day it came, the bank was on strike. Next day we received notice you were coming, and we had to rush and get a chair for you and make arrangements. Unfortunately, that was the only day I could not go there. It came late. In fact it came very late. First thing tomorrow we'll go.
Prabhupāda: You have got that letter?
Akṣayānanda: I have it.
Prabhupāda: No, their letter . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not only one copy. I have two copies.
Prabhupāda: Where is that letter?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have them . . . It's attached in that file with the fixed deposit receipts.
Prabhupāda: What it is written there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It gives them specific instruction to immediately transfer these two fixed deposits on the date of maturity to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Bank, north branch, to the account of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust.
Prabhupāda: No. What do they say?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they also acknowledge having received it, having received the two fixed deposit receipts. They wrote that. The bank manager stamped it, dated it, signature. We gave them the receipts signed, so they acknowledged having received it.
Prabhupāda: But they have not issued any letter, "Yes, it will be done"?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, their acknowledgement of the letter should constitute that. I got them to acknowledge that they received the original. The fact that they would take the receipt of the fixed deposits indicates that they have to do the needful, as we have instructed them. And I have no doubt that they will do that. When they came to see you, they accepted that they would have to do that, because the money was sent to them, the four lakhs.
Prabhupāda: So other banking business going on? Huh?
Akṣayānanda: Generally everything is all right, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bank is giving good service?
Akṣayānanda: Yes. It's all right.
Prabhupāda: Go on. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . no greater honor than to be called your son, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Where is that Dr. Sharma?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Sharma. Oh, yes. Where is he? He's here. Did that milk give you any mucus, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good.
Prabhupāda: It is very, very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really fresh.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. If I drink this milk twice, morning and evening, I think I can avoid any food.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can what?
Prabhupāda: Avoid any food.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't like fruit juice?
Prabhupāda: I mean to say, I can drink in the meantime, but by simply drinking this milk, I can live healthy. I think so.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well the saintly persons in the past did adopt that policy. They were living simply on milk. Are you feeling all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are happy to be in Vṛndāvana, I think. You look very natural, being in Vṛndāvana, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's all. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said scratch hard. (break) The other train? Punjab Mail? Frontier Mail? Oh, Rajdhani. Rajdhani Express?
Prabhupāda: That is from Calcutta?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's two. One comes from Calcutta, between Calcutta and Delhi, and the other goes Bombay-Delhi and Delhi-Bombay. Both of them take about seventeen or eighteen hours. The one going from Calcutta stops only once, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kanpur, I think. Between Calcutta and Delhi it makes one stop at Kanpur. That's all. It's all air-conditioned.
Prabhupāda: And the other?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other one stops once, I guess, but I'm not certain of the place. Between here and Bombay it makes one stop, so far I know. I'm not sure what is that stop. They're very popular trains. They run only about twice a week. But the train we were on was quite quick also. But not so quick as this. The train we were on took about, I think, twenty-two hours, Bombay-Delhi. But Rajdhani, I think, takes seventeen. It's about five hours faster.
Prabhupāda: They are also very fast. No?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That one we were on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it was very good. And it was very much on time. (end)