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751004 - Lecture SB 07.05.31 - Mauritius

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

751004SB-MAURITIUS - October 04, 1975 - 42:09 Minutes

Harikeśa: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat) Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Seventh Canto, Fifth Chapter thirty-first verse. (leads chanting of verse, etc.)

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
(SB 7.5.31)
na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
(SB 7.5.31)

Prabhupāda: Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

Harikeśa: Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ

The people in general, especially in this age, they do not know what is the goal of life, and still they are leaders. That is the defect of the modern civilization. It is the defect of material world, but especially in this Kali-yuga, it is the most abominable, fallen age. There are Satya-yuga, (break) yuga, Dvāpara-yuga (break) and Kali-yuga, just like there are different seasons in the year—summer, rainy season, then winter season, autumn, spring, like that.

So formerly, in the Satya-yuga, people used to live for 100,000's of years. Then in the Tretā-yuga, they used to live for 10,000 years. And in the Dvāpara-yuga they used to live for 1,000 years. That is the maximum. And in the Kali-yuga they can live up to one hundred years. That is also not completed. With the advancement of Kali-yuga the duration of life, bodily strength, memory, mercifulness, religious sense—in this way everything will be reduced. And the duration of life will be reduced so much so that it is stated in the Bhāgavata that, "If a man lives for twenty to thirty years, he will be considered as a grand old man." And there will be not available especially rice, wheat, milk, sugar. These are stated. This is Kali-yuga.

So the nature of this material world is that without knowing the goal of life they become leaders. Material world, especially in this age, they do not know what is the goal of life. They do not know what he is. That is the defect. Dehātma-buddhiḥ. Everyone, all over the world, they are thinking in terms of this body. Accidentally, somehow or other, because I have got this Indian body I am thinking, "I am Indian." And another person, he has got the American body from America . . .

This land also we have demarcated. That is also our creation. Otherwise, the land belongs to God. We have created this, that "This is America," "This is India," and "This is England," "This is Germany . . ." But actually every land belongs to . . . every land, sea, sky belongs to God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). That is Vedic civilization. "Everything belongs to God." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People should be free to move in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Everything, actually it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. But we have got restriction because we see, "This is America, this is India, this is . . ."

So they have been described here as andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: "These leaders are themselves blind, and they are leading other blind men." General public, they're blind, and the leaders are also blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Why they're blind? Now, because they do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. Everyone is self-interested. That's very good. You are self-interested; I am self-interested. So that is . . . but you do not know what is your self-interest. Therefore you are blind. That is described here that, "These blind leaders, they do not know." They are especially mentioned, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. The leaders, they lead others. their yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). Leaders are responsible, because yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha: "Those who are leaders, whatever they do, they perform, common men follow them." Therefore they must be very perfect. Common men follow the leaders. If the leaders are themselves imperfect, then what will be the position of the common men?

So here it is said that because the leaders, they do not know what is the aim of life, what is the goal of life, therefore common men, people in general, they are being misguided. They are being misguided. Suppose a blind man leads some other blind men. What will be the result? Both of them will meet danger. That is the result, because. . . "Why? They'll they're they're doing very nicely, with great cautiousness." No. But they do not know that they are bound up by the laws of nature. Te 'pīśa-tantryā uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They cannot divert their attention or deviate from the laws of nature. That is not possible. So they are under the laws of nature. They do not know why the laws of nature acting in a different way, against their will. Suppose I do not wish to die. Why laws of nature enforcing, forcing me to die? Nobody wants to die.

So you cannot surpass the laws of nature. Therefore Kṛṣṇa presents in the Bhagavad-gītā that, "You are trying to solve the problems of life, but here are the real problems of life: janma-mṛtyu-jarā vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9)." The real problem is that there is death, there is birth, there is old age and there is disease. This is real problem. That problem is due to this material body. Therefore our real problem is that we have got this material body, but we have no sense that, "Within this material body I am the spirit soul, living. So how to get out of this material body and again revive our spiritual body?" Spiritual body is already there. How to become free from the bondage of this material body and become free again in spiritual life, that is real problem of life. That they do not. Who knows? Bring any big, big leaders. Ask him that, "Do you know what is the problem of life?" They do not know. Therefore it is said, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31).

Therefore this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is preaching "Back to Godhead," not go forward for meeting again and again birth, death, old age and disease. That this portion of problem, we have already discussed yesterday. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānāṁ (SB 7.5.30). Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām means chewing the chewed. You have got sugarcane, many quantity. If somebody chewed the sugarcane, took out the juice, and if the remnants is thrown away, what you will get by chewing again that remnants? So punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām. By our activities we are being placed under the laws of material nature—prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27)—infecting different modes of material nature. Just like if you infect that . . . this morning some medical officer came to inject me about the yellow fever. So why this injection, vaccine, against the disease? That means if I infect this yellow fever, I will have to suffer. Similarly, the modes of material nature are three: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. And as we are infecting ourself with the three kinds of modes of material nature, you are getting different types of bodies. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22).

I am put into this laws of material nature, and as I am acting under the influence of different modes of material nature, I am getting a type of body. That is my material position. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). Tathā dehāntara prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. Death means changing body. We are changing body every moment, every second, and getting a new body imperceptibly. And the last change of this body is taken as death, transmigration of the soul. But nobody knows what kind of change is going to happen in my next body or next life. But there is change of body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Just like I was a child. Now I have got another body; the body is changed. Similarly, when this body will be finished, then I will get another body. This is a fact. If we cannot understand, then we have to take it from authority to understand, because understanding means taking knowledge from the authority.

So Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ is there, information. So how can we deny that there is no life after death? There is. But nobody is caring to understand, "What is my next life? Is going to happen? Today I may be in a very big position, and tomorrow, if I am going to be a tree . . ." Here you are sitting very comfortably in this room. Just a few years after, there's a tree. He cannot move an inch even, and he has to stand there in cyclone, in scorching heat, in everything. Why? We are . . . both of us, we are living entities. Why he has got this body, I have got this body, and one may have better body than me? Why there are so many, 8,400,000 species of life, and different position? Why this is? There is no such inquiry. There is no such knowledge. Therefore they have been described here as andhā, blind.

They do not know the goal of life, that we are part and parcel of God. Mamaivāṁśo jīva bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Some way or other, we have come in material contact. Now it is our duty to get out of these laws of material . . . Īśa-tantryā. Īśa-tantryā, under certain condition. Just like under certain condition a criminal is put into the prison house. So it is his duty to know that, "I have committed this criminal activity, therefore I have been put into this jail or prison life. Somehow or other, complete it, and let me decide not to commit again any criminal acts so that I may be put again into prison life." This is intelligent. Similarly, we should be educated how we have been put into this material conditional life and how we can get out of it and then again, in our spiritual life, we can go back to home, back to Godhead. That is, that should be the aim of life. But na te viduḥ: "They do not know." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatim. The progress should be towards Viṣṇu, Lord Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, back to home, back to Godhead. They do not know. Why? Because durāśayā. They are thinking that, "We shall make adjustment in this material life, and we shall be happy." Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ.

Bahiḥ. Bahiḥ means external. This material world is the external energy of God, and the spiritual world is the internal energy of God. So we are in the external energy of God. The external energy of God means although we are eternal, we have to accept different types of body according to our desire, according to our tendency to enjoy this material world, therefore that facility is given in this material world. In the spiritual world there is only one aim—they are all eternal servitors of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. They have no other desire. That is spiritual world. So you can transform this material world into spiritual world if you have got only aim to please the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then it can be transformed into spiritual world, although spiritual world is differently situated. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature, which is spiritual world. They have no information. But we get information from Bhagavad-gītā and other śāstras that spiritual world is still bigger. This material world is the one fourth of the God's creation, and the spiritual world is the three fourth. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ekāṁśena sthito jagat.

When Arjuna inquired about Kṛṣṇa's vibhūti, His opulence, He summarized:

athavā bahunaitena
kim jñātena tavārjuna
viṣṭabhyā idaṁ kṛtsnam
ekāṁśena sthito jagat
(BG 10.42)

"My dear Arjuna, how long I shall describe you about My opulence? I summarize it that this material world is only one-fourth manifestation of My opulation, opulence" Ekāṁśena sthito jagat. This material world means . . . you have . . . we have got experience about this universe up to the sky, as far as we can see, the horizon. This is one universe. And there are millions of universes like this. That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, that yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnaṁ (Bs. 5.40). Yasya prabhā. The Lord's effulgence is Brahman effulgence. Within that Brahman effulgence there are innumerable universes, jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi. Jagad-aṇḍa means this brahmāṇḍa. Aṇḍa. It is round; it is not flat. Aṇḍa, just like egg. Koṭi. Koṭi means innumerable. And in each universe . . . yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi koṭiṣv aṣeṣa-vasudhādi (Bs. 5.40). In each brahmāṇḍa there are unlimited number of planets and stars, aśeṣa-vasudha. And vibhūti-bhinnam. And each planet is differently situated. In each planet has got specific atmosphere, I mean specific arrangement. Just like the sun globe. The sun globe is fiery. The moon, moon planet, it is very pleasing. There is also fire, but it is surrounded by cold atmosphere; therefore it is very pleasing.

So vibhūti-bhinnam. Each every planet has got different atmosphere. And each and every planet, they're different kinds of living entities just suitable for that atmosphere. Don't think that in the sun planet there is no life. There is also life. If there is no life, how Kṛṣṇa says that imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1)? Vivasvate means . . . the king of sun planet is known as Vivasvān. So Kṛṣṇa spoke with him, so how you can say there is no life? This is material world, many millions of universes. In another place it is said, yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-bilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48).

So we have to take information from the authoritative literature what is the position of this material world, the spiritual world, God and His relationship with us, our position. This is real knowledge, not that a knowledge that how to live. Living condition is fulfilled by the nature's way. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. They are not concerned how to eat, how to sleep. They know, by nature's arrangement there is already arrangement. Just like the birds in the morning. They rise up early in the morning. They are not concerned where they will eat. They know there is already arrangement for eating. The elephants in Africa, they know that God has already arranged for their eating forty kilos at a time. The ants within the room, they are . . . they know there is already arrangement. So if God has arranged for everyone, eight million different species of life or forms of life, why not for human being? There is arrangement. But in the human being is advised to do certain things. They must do it. Then there is no question of scarcity. There is . . . everything is arranged there. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14): "You produce your food grains so that the animals and the man, both will be happy." But if you don't produce food grains, if you produce sugarcane, then how they will be satisfied? Food grains must be produced. That is the injunction of the śāstra.

So, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). If you do not follow the instruction of the śāstraśāstra means the instruction of God—then na siddhiṁ sa, such civilization will never be perfect, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti; na sukham, neither they'll be happy; na parāṁ gatim, neither they'll be elevated back to, to back to Godhead. This is the defect. Therefore we should try to understand what is the goal of life. But that we do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇu. By their own blind intelligence they are trying to adjust things within this material word, and they are being failure repeatedly. Still, they have no sense.

They, those who are actually leaders of the society, they should be sensible. They should take advice, instruction from the most perfect personality, Kṛṣṇa, and adjust things. Then they will be happy. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . and if you have got . . . if you don't agree, then you must have question.

Indian man (1): Are you sure that you are right about these things?

Devotee (1): He is asking if we are sure if we are right in what we are saying.

Prabhupāda: Are you sure that you are right? I am sure, because I am not speaking my words—I am speaking from the authority. Therefore I am sure.

Indian man (1): You are sure of somebody else's . . .

Prabhupāda: No, your question is, "Are you sure?" So I am sure because . . . just like a small child, he does not know what is this. He asks, "Father, what is this?" The father says: "My dear child, it is called ring." So I heard from my father, "It is called ring," and if I say: "It is ring," then I am sure. I don't say it is something else.

I heard it from my father that it is called ring. So if I call a ring a ring, that is truth. I may be child, but because I have heard from my father, who is not a child—he is mature, and he gives me the knowledge—"This is called ring," and if when I say, "This is ring," that is perfect. You can say that "You are a child. How do you know it is ring?" But if he says, "My father has said this is ring," then he is perfect. Similarly, we are not talking anything, manufacturing, "I think." We don't say like that, because I know I have no value. But we say what the authority says, Kṛṣṇa says. That is our position. Therefore we are sure.

Devotee (1): You have a question?

Indian man (2): Yes, I do. I should like to know one thing, Prabhupādji. You have just said that in the moon there is a cold atmosphere and there is still a living entity there. You see? But what the Americans have said, you see, because they have sent man there, different rockets there, satellites . . .

Prabhupāda: So I understand: your authority is America, and my authority is śāstra. That is the difference.

Indian man (2): But they . . .

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. That means your authority is America. You say through the words of the American. You have not experienced. Your position: you have no experience. My position: I have no experience. But you accept the Americans, authority, and I accept the śāstra as authority. That is the difference.

Indian man (2): This I want to know the difference, whether it is true or not.

Prabhupāda: That is up to you whether you accept American or the śāstra. (laughter) That is up to you. But you cannot say because you have learned from America, therefore it is correct.

Indian man (2): But they have revealed to the world that there is no living entity there, but the śāstra says there is . . .

Prabhupāda: Why? Reason does not say so. Why there is no living entity? We see living entity are everywhere. Why you say that there is no living entity?

Indian man (2): But when these fellows have come there . . .

Prabhupāda: These fellows . . . therefore your authorities are these fellows. (laughter) These fellows will say something now, and after ten years they will change. These fellows are like that. (laughter)

Indian man (3): According to science it is said that . . .

Prabhupāda: "According to science" means American science or Russian science. That's all.

Indian man (3): The sun, you see, is a ball of fire. Nothing can exist there, according to . . .

Prabhupāda: No. We have got information—even in the fire there are living entities. Why? Because, in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find, the constitutional position of the living entity is that it does not become burned. So how you can say that in the fire . . .? What is the verse? (devotees look for verse) No, no. In the Second Chapter there is the description of the living entity, you'll find. The living entity . . . find out.

Harikeśa: Acchedyo?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam. Find it.


acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam
akledyo 'śoṣya eva ca
nityaḥ sarva-gataḥ sthāṇur
acalo'yam sanātanaḥ
(BG 2.24)

"This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, all-pervading, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same."

Prabhupāda: So if he is all-pervading and if he is unburnable, then how it is possible that in the fire he does not exist? (break) It cannot be burned, and it is everywhere. Sarva-ga. And we find also when we go on the sea beach, within the sand there is life. Now it is up to you to accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or authority of the Americans. That is your . . . we follow the authorities of Bhagavad-gītā. Adāhyo 'yam: "It cannot be burned." And from reason also, there is . . . in the water there are living entities; in the air there are living entities; in the earth there are living entities. So the material elements are five: earth, water, fire, air and sky. So if everywhere there is living entities, fire is also one of the material elements. Why not in the fire? What is the reason? And Bhagavad-gītā says, adāhyo 'yam: "It is never burned." So why do you think like that, that in the fire there is no living entity? Therefore they have been described as blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are blind, and they are leading other blind men. But they do not know what is the laws of nature, how things are going.

Devotee (1): There's another question. Yes? (break)

Guest (4): . . . about all the words that you said about Kṛṣṇa and God. If someone is a cruel man, he never expects in God, and all that we say for the man that you are saying falls from right here and get out on it. In original life all was difficult for him.

Prabhupāda: I cannot follow him. You are following?

Guest (4): What about his soul? Did God welcome it to the paradise, or soul are always in the air and makes people think that he is a devil's man too?

Devotee: (trying to explain) If a man does not understand God in this lifetime, is he still accepted by God? He's not he is hearing does not come . . .

Prabhupāda: God is everywhere, and God is with you also. God knows you, and He is trying to guide you. But you do not know Him.

Guest (4): You just said that the soul takes rebirth when he dies.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (4) Therefore what's the soul? Got rebirth, soul, so that he will make always difficult thing in life and would not fix in God? Or what God do with the souls?

Prabhupāda: Soul is there, God is there. When you take rebirth, God is also there. He is trying to guide you. You are desiring the . . . just like "I want to enjoy like this," and God is giving you facility: "All right, you enjoy like this." Just like driver. You asking driver, "Please take me to this place," so driver is taking you to that place. Similarly, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61): "My dear Arjuna, the God is situated in everyone's heart, core of the heart," bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni, "and I meant to . . . He is causing the travelling of the living entity," yantrārūḍhāni māyayā, "on a machine which is given by this material nature." So this body is just like a machine, motorcar, and Kṛṣṇa is the driver, charioteer. And as you are desiring, He is driving your car in the same way or He is supplying different types of car. In this way you are . . . life after life, you are trying to satisfy your senses. Kṛṣṇa is giving you the facility, God is giving you the facility, but He is asking you that, "Give up this business, nonsense." Sarvam-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. He is simply finding out the opportunity how to say that, this ultimate truth of life. So our business is, instead of travelling in different cars and fulfill our whimsical desire, better surrender to God and abide by His order and be happy.

Guest (4): One question more. Did Kṛṣṇa knows when is, when he dies that he will . . .

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa knows everything. There is no questioning.

Guest (4): Oh did he know that he was a river and then come to earth and to preach us and make all that . . .?

Prabhupāda: He is preaching always. He is preaching always, "Do this like this." Just like Bhagavad-gītā is open to everyone. That is His preaching. But we are not accepting. That is our fault. Otherwise He is preaching always.

Guest (5): But if man be part and parcel of God, how do you explain the evil deeds of man?

Prabhupāda: Because he likes to do that.

Guest (5): That means God also likes to do evil?

Prabhupāda: No. God gives simply facility. That's all.

Guest (4): Therefore he must have the same power as God.

Prabhupāda: Not same power, but it has got a little independence.

Guest (1): It will exists on us.

Prabhupāda: Yes, independence. By misusing the independence, he can . . . just like a child, a small child, and his father. The father gives the little child little independence. But the child is not as powerful as the father. But still, the father, out of affection, he gives little independence to the child. Even to the dog, a master gives a little independence to the dog. That is affection.

Indian man (3): But if you say this affection . . . the child is doing something wrong, say, for example, he has taken a knife to do, and . . . that he kills somebody . . .

Prabhupāda: Father says: "Don't do it. But if you do it, do it at your risk."

Indian man (3): But if Kṛṣṇa is guiding us, you see, therefore he is . . .

Prabhupāda: But you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's guidance. That is the difficulty. Just like you are taking the guidance of Americans. (laughter) You are elderly man, educated man, you prefer to take guidance from the Americans, not from Kṛṣṇa. So what can be done? That is Kṛṣṇa's ill luck and your misfortune. What can be done? All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)